AF2323 From France, joined Aug 2007, 100 posts, RR: 0 Posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 26285 times:
I wanted to share with you some videos of an Airbus A310 low pass at Portugal Airshow this week end.
I find it pretty impressive, especially when the plane is turning, the wing tip seems VERY close to the ground... what do you think?
The 3 clips are 3 different views of the same moment.
KPDX From United States, joined Dec 2005, 1559 posts, RR: 4 Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 26166 times:
Thats amazing! Amazing in a stupid way though, did they not realize how low they were? I cant think of any other reasons.... That could of hurt other people. Otherwise....SWEET
Mirrodie From United States, joined Apr 2000, 6548 posts, RR: 67 Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 26138 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
Wow, really great capture. I never liked the smaller airbuses but over the years have really taken a liking to the a310. Great to see this one perform like an r/c plane!
JRDC930 From United States, joined Jan 2007, 806 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 26109 times:
Quoting KPDX (Reply 2): Thats amazing! Amazing in a stupid way though, did they not realize how low they were? I cant think of any other reasons.... That could of hurt other people. Otherwise....SWEET
They are commercial pilots at an organized Airshow, with a multi-milion dollar aircraft, i think they know what they were doing.
U.S. Legacy carriers,STILL leaders in lowering industry standards...
EarlyNFF From Germany, joined Sep 2007, 139 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 26084 times:
Quoting JRDC930 (Reply 6): They are commercial pilots at an organized Airshow, with a multi-milion dollar aircraft, i think they know what they were doing
FVTu134 From Russia, joined Aug 2005, 138 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 25962 times:
I think if the PIC would have a look at these video's he would probably admit that that was a bit to close. I also do not mind to see airliners doing flypasts at airshows but there is no sense in trying to be the lowest flying in an airliner. Would have been smarter to pull up and then turn. This was just plain reckless... even if it was a veteran flyer... This guy just wasn't thinking
FUTu134
who decided that a Horizon should be HORIZONtal???
CV990 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 25788 times:
Hi!
The pilot on this great performance flight was Cap. César Brito no less than the TAP Airbus A310 fleet last Chief Pilot...this awesome pilot have 4.000 hours on the A310 and TAP wanted to pay the best tribute for almost 20 years of service in TAP without an accident. The airplane involved was CS-TEI and the co-pilot of that flight was Vitor Pereira. Has you know, from November on TAP will start to receive 5 brand new A330-200 fresh from the factory.
This incredible performance shows the great pilots TAP have during all these years, just to remind you in early 60's the famous Capt. Marcelino passed UNDER Tagus bridge with a Boeing 707!!!
I personally think that Capt. César Brito with this large amount of flying hours on the A310 did knew what he was doing!!!
Regards
JumpJet From United Kingdom (England), joined Feb 2005, 129 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 25775 times:
Looks like another airshow disaster in the making to me! Aren't all the pilots killed in airshows experts in their fields? They are - until they overcook it and unfortunately spread themselves all over the runway! When watching that video, part of me almost expects the aircraft to gently sideslip into the ground, it is a damn great airliner after all, not some overpowered "paraffin budgie" of a fighter..
CV990 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 25754 times:
Hi!
The reason for me why expert pilots are killed in airshows is because they push the "envellope" over the limits.....of course they are experts but for some reason do go behind the airplane limit.....in this case that didn't happen because at the end the Airbus A310 came back to LIS, it didn't crash!
Regards
Braby From United Kingdom (England), joined Mar 2007, 93 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 25739 times:
Amazing video's. Not sure i would have liked to have been on the plane though, a little bit to close for comfort!
CV990 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 25654 times:
Hi!
That's true, but if we start going that way then I better stay at home and don't fly anymore or don't visit an Air Show!!! Of course all these things can happen always. It like a sentence we have in Portugal - "If my gramma didn't died, she would be alive right now!"
regards
CHRISBA777ER From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 4795 posts, RR: 59 Reply 23, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 25634 times:
That is incredible. The wingtip looks like it is almost touching, perhaps it was the camera angle making it look lower than it is - maybe the cameraman is on a higher bit of ground. I dont believe TP's chief A310 training skipper would have knowingly done that - doesnt look safe to me but hey, he has the hours on type and will have planned it properly - I dont and nobody here can really point the finger with any authority. Im sure he knew what he was doing, or maybe didnt plan to be quite as low as he was - the long left hand climbing turn looked just as dangerous - dodgy manouver to undertake in a low energy state like that.
CHRISBA777ER From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 4795 posts, RR: 59 Reply 25, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 25580 times:
Quoting EarlyNFF (Reply 20): in this case, a sudden power loss on the lower side engine would probably have ended in a disaster!
Yup - loss of power in either engine would be tremendously bad news.
Quoting KrisYUL (Reply 19): Doesn't it still have some sort of flight envelope protection?
Not that would be of much help in this instance - it doesnt have alpha floor protection like on the A320. One thing is for sure - the GPWS will be going absolutely batshit in the cockpit.
Quoting EarlyNFF (Reply 24): definitely a reason to revoke one´s license immediately
Agreed - but it was a different time back then. Wouldnt and couldnt do it now.
Proud to be European!
26 CV990: Hi Mighluss. Here's the story, in 1966 when the 25th. of April Tagus Bridge ( at that time Salazar Bridge ) was newly finished Cap. José Marcelino (
27 Kiwiandrew: I thought with gear down the GPWS becomes inactive to prevent it being a distraction when the a/c is actually landing , or have I got it wrong (again
28 CHRISBA777ER: You are spot on correct yes - didnt think of that.
29 OHLHD: Wow, that is not really. Maybe Capt. César Brito is an ex military pilot
30 CV990: Hi. You're right about that Cathay Pacific PBY-5 Catalina, VH-HDT, that at the time was leased to MATCO ( Macao Air Transport Company ). I should hav
31 Faro: Agree absolutely, totally unwarranted, stupid turn at such a low "altitude". This video is one of the reasons why airshow accidents will be with us f
32 Express1: I wonder how meny people went off in a hurry to change their underpants!!!! cool videos. dave
33 Keesje: Regardsless of who did this, the demo was planned higher. Probably nobody at TAP / the airport / authorities is happy with this ICAO AVIATION INCIDEN
34 PHKLM: Guys, this is reckless by all means! These photo's can be found on http://forums.simflight.com/viewtopi...117&t=64768&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a
35 CV990: Hi! Noop, this is for be great flying, great pilot, great airline indeed!!! Either you like it or not! That's what I call I great finale for the Airbu
37 JoeCattoli: WoW... that has to be the craziest airliner related video I've ever seen... Thanks for linkin' it... It looks like not much more than 1 meter... the g
38 BHXFAOTIPYYC: I was there and it was a breath-taking moment. The wing tip was about 8 feet off the ground. I was talking to a pilot at the show about it, and he did
39 CV990: Hi! JoeCatolli buon giorno!!! I'm sorry there's no images of that outstanding flight of Capt. Marcelino...but I tell you, if you talk about that to an
40 PHKLM: I tell you, a bird strike at that very moment and the plane is down, maybe even in the mid of spectators. This is irresponsible no matter how you loo
41 Tomaeroeng: You speak from my mind. In my eyes, this is either very bad form of pilot show-off.... OR it was not intended to be such a low pass.. Small turbulenc
42 Worldrider: I'D SAY by the 1rst pic., the wing tip is maybe 3 max 4 metres to touch ground when curving!!!..a bit..??
43 Mighluss: Have you seen the fast pass (in the same display, I think) ? http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=sneYFUtiKKc Also breathtaking!!!!
44 JRDC930: AIRSHOW.... AIRSHOW.... there have been plenty of airliners doing stunts similar to this at airshows. Im pretty sure if most of the people here on ane
45 Tomaeroeng: ive been to the oldtimer airshow at hahnweide a week ago.. there were Spitfires, Me108 and many fast planes.. They did breathtaking shows, flybys at
46 KrisYUL: Yeah, I thought so too when I only looked at the video, but that A310 is reeaally close to the ground. Someone said about 2 meters - that's not safe
47 CV990: Hi! That's what I said before...people talk and talk and talk, TAP is one of the safest airlines in the world with the best pilots....I bet many airli
48 Jdevora: My understanding is that the FBW was introduced in the A320 and tha the A300/A310 doesn't have it. Cheers JD
49 Tomaeroeng: sad thing for a chief pilot to put spectators and organizers at such a risk. accidents like the one on teneriffa happend because of the same issue..
50 Ogre727: So what are you saying, just because TAP has a good safety record, one of its captains will never make a mistake or bad judgement on an air show? I t
51 Photolppt: Hello everyone, Trust me, it JUST seems that the wingtip is closer to the ground than it really is. I saw the display, and believe me, the wingtip was
52 CV990: Hi! What I think is that some people here is just making a "lot of noise" with nothing to complain about!!! No, you're wrong about that!!! Do you know
53 BHXFAOTIPYYC: You are correct. The pilot I was talking to said the 320 probably wouldn't have been able to do that manouever or the FBW system may not have allowed
54 Ogre727: LOL you keep doing it! Just because he might have made a mistake in an air show does not make him a bad commercial pilot, or TAP unsafe. You have to
55 CV990: Hi! For those that understand portuguese why don't you go the the portuguese aviation enthusiast forum called: www.linhadafrente.net And get the topic
56 Kaitak: Remember Cdt. Michel Asseline, senior instructor on the A320 fleet with AF in 1988, with many thousands of hours behind him ... and then he demonstra
57 Keesje: http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/9775/80911376gm1.jpg You can hear the crowd reacting in disbelieve..
58 Mirrodie: Only a pilot knows if they knew what they were doing. Also, you never know who's trained and who isnt to do an airshow. That statement is too blanket
59 CV990: Hi! That's an interesting point but...you need to mention the following, Captain Asseline was in charge for a brand new airplane that had the new con
60 NYC777: Just think another quarter inch to half an inch movement further left on the control column during that turn and you have the makings of a very very b
61 StrangeLESI: Fantastic!! Just Fantastic!!! So many people talking that is a shame, bad for TAPs reputation, wreckless flying. He is flying a plane that he knows fo
62 Ajd1992: Uh... that is way more than 10 degrees... even as a noob (5 hours) and a 15 year old, i can tell you without a doubt that's more like 20-25, maybe 30
64 ULMFlyer: Hey CV990, I got an "access forbidden" msg. Any tips on how to access it? BTW, thanks for the great historical posts on tuga aviation. Yes, the same
65 Cainanuk: And he almost gave us one.... I concur!
66 OwlEye: The 'gear down' pass was totally unacceptable The 'gear up' pass was ok
67 Faro: No one is disputing that, one simply wonders whether, in doing what he did: i) he also calculated and deliberately flew a wing-down bank margin for g
68 OwlEye: This movie says enough that he almost miscalculated the situation. Watch how the plane is decending while making the curve to the left, scary!!!!! Luc
69 LaminarFlow: A brilliant display of the A310 and TAP. I would personally love to see more airliners performing at airshows in North America.
70 Ellehammer: Unless there is a substantial dip in the ground where he starts turning that was really bad flying.
71 Sabenapilot: Commercial pilots can not be at the control of an A310 (or in fact any other airliner) unless they'd basically have their own; at an airline you need
72 StrangeLESI: look better at the terrain betwen the plane and the camera... its a little bitt taller at the end... enough to give you that sensation! [Edited 2007-
73 BHXFAOTIPYYC: Here's one I took. Sorry it's so dark. Weather was weird. Got sunburned in the morning, soaked in the afternoon....
74 Ellehammer: I've been to the Ferté-Alais airshow quite a few times, and there is indeed a dip in the terrain beyond the grass strip, which sometimes makes it see
75 JRDC930: Ever heard of sarcasm? I know what the bank is. Re read my post.
76 JRDC930: Other nations have their own rules as to what a pilot can and cant do, FAA isnt the only authority in the world. Also this is quite similar to an aver
77 CV990: Hi! When I read what a TAP A310-300 fellow pilot told about how Captain César Brito projected all this display well....sorry my friends, but if someo
78 EarlyNFF: Correct. That is what airline pilots train in simulators often enough.When the turn begins, it´s a totally different story. No bank below 300ft, max
79 KPDX: Holy hell! That one is kinda scary to! (I wouldnt say that dangerous though)
80 KPDX: Also another scary view! Sorry if its been posted already. Edit: Its been posted. Sorry all.[Edited 2007-09-18 00:49:31]
81 KPDX: Regardless of opinion, for many people this way below the comfort level for the their safety (even though it was going the other way) or they may be
82 Seafleet: I think my heart would have been in my mouth if I had only seen the view of the first two videos but in my opinion the third shows that whilst low the
83 B752fanatic: These portugese surely know how to enjoy a good airshow, and the acrobatic pilots that volunteer too! It runs in their veins the Brazilians also share
84 Tommy1954: It was simply a wonderfull low pass done by very talented and professional pilots, and dedicated to everyone who loves aviation. Great A 310 , GREAT p
85 Curlyheadboy: Well, it seems ti me that the wingtip was awfully close to the ground, so I'm asking: 1) Don't they have a briefing with all pilots before an airshow
86 Pilotaydin: well i think i know what you're trying to say, but what airline you fly for or where you're from has nothing to do with your piloting.. AND the best
87 OwlEye: Your reply sounds almost patriotic but reading your lines I totally disagree, it was an irresponsable act and to me it's negative publicity for TAP A
88 CV990: Hi! That's what I think, Captain César Brito was very lucky on that display, and we were very lucky to see him doing that!!! Behind all that it's the
89 ENU: This is still the lowest pass of an aircraft ever, I think. Air Zimbabwe, but I don't know where and when.
90 GBan: Certainly he'd not fly this way on a scheduled flight. Nevertheless the display seems to show a little too much self-confidence. In that case I prefe
91 SupraZachAir: All I could think watching that was, "Holy $hit, that guy has some serious balls..."
92 CV990: Hi Gban. I accept your position with no complains..but let me just give an insight on that, I think beside this "spiritual" display when we fly comme
93 Voodoo: I would rather that the pilot of a plane I was flying on did NOT have such *profound* confidence in his ability and risk taking. I would prefer that h
94 Owleye: That Air Zimbabwe was a pretty low one. Remember how the F27 Troopship and the F60 of the RNLAF gave their 'act de presence' at airshows! Beware: str
95 Airportugal: I was at the Évora Air Show and I was on the other side of the runway. Together with me, were two TAP A310 captains who assured that what we saw was
96 Vasu: Beautiful photos... I especially love the "nose-on" underneath one!
97 Keesje: great pictures IMO your picture captures the moment just before the aircraft starts sliding sideways, it doesn't show the terrain is providing additi
98 KL1291: That Habsheim demo was where those new wireless Airbus systems failed. Or not?? So, there is no equal situation comparison possible with the TAP A310
99 CV990: Hi KL1291! Thanks for your words....we can get also "a little over the top" regarding soccer By the way, I also like the way the dutch can be really
100 KL1291: What to think about our Dutch 'Showmaster of being over the top', mr Arjen Robben. He must be having also some Portuguese blood http://www.youtube.co
101 CV990: Hi! Just for your curiosity, this "bad" A310-300, CS-TEI that did the fantastic display came from CCS, went to Évora, returned to LIS and went that e
102 B752fanatic: I suppose that mastering the approach to FNC runway 05 its a nothing compared to that stunt that the pilot did on that air show.
103 Mirage: Here's another video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dK5VOhKk8s&mode=related&search= People, calm down, this exibition was planned and executed in si
104 BestWestern: Ah the wonders of pilots with egos the size of elephants. I agree whole heartedly. Why is it that any ANY criticism of portugal or TAP is jumped upon
105 Ptknight: I saw the video this morning. I'm not qualified to say if it was a dangerous maneuver or not, but it sure gives me the creeps every time I see it. You
106 CV990: Hi! BestWestern I think I didn't said that...you better quote exactly what I said...otherwise I have to admit that you are misleading the rest of the
107 Mandala499: WHat FBW? 310 only has FBW on the roll axis IIRC... Marcelino was lucky not to have been fired... Had he done it in a different airline, he might hav
108 OwlEye: I don't believe you! You cannot exercise such a low turn. Planned?? It's forbidden according EU-regulations too 'crazy fly' like this on an airshow w
110 CV990: Hi! Eh!eh!eh!.....you don't any slightest idea who Captain Marcelino was.....he was a top TAP pilot for many years, he used to fly the President of P
111 Voodoo: When the plane begins its bank there is actually a slight -loss- of altitude as the wing dips down. The still and frozen shots are misleading because
112 Tomaeroeng: I am getting the impression that this is a Capt. Marcelino personal cult threat. Because he flew the Portuguese President he is some kind of national
113 AF2323: Thanks for these great photos, Airportugal! When I attend to an air show, as a spectator, I want to see spectacular exhibitions. But you have to balan
114 BuyantUkhaa: Think Van Zanten... As said before the A310 only has FBW on roll. It does NOT have alpha-floor protection, so there was nothing to correct the plane.
115 Mandala499: Buyant, Thank you for explaining the obvious perception difference that hasn't been accepted by proponents of both sides of the argument... The safety
116 Mirage: You can belive in what you want, no problem, that doesn't change the facts. It was an exibition on the limit but respecting the A310 performance, the
117 CV990: Hi! I was simply answering to what Mandala499 said...I was out of Captain Marcelino many posts ago...now you came back with that....here's my answer,
118 Tomaeroeng: what a great man indeed capt. Marcelino was. Now I see that considering his past deeds, this display at the airshow must have been totally safe. Excus
119 CV990: Hi! Thanks a lot...you know, I'm not that dumb...you're being sarcastic of course....but I understand that...you don't know the man, you don't know TA
120 SQ325: @Mirage Are you serious by telling us that this manouver was planned, approved and trained in Simulator? If so I just lost any respect of Portugals av
121 TAP1972: I am surprised with your comment. It doesn't show that you live in Portugal. In general the portuguese are worried and concerned people and tend (wro
122 Can258: Great Job!! That is really close ! . However I don't think it is risky as long as the pilot knows what he is doing and aware of the situation.
123 BuyantUkhaa: Well this is the interesting bit: what you say is true (that many Portuguese look up to other countries and the quality of life there), but what I've
124 MerlinIIIB: Back in the 1980s I was among the 118 pax on board a B737-200 performing a low pass during an airshow in Norway. Prior to the low pass we did some low
125 Mandala499: Well, knowing the culture of the peninsula... as much as I don't approve of such manouvers, come to think of it, better to have that stunt done on TAP
126 Mirrodie: Its great footag, but again, what credentials do any of you have to speak out intelligently on the matter and whether or not it was appropriate? Are
127 Mirage: Information given by TAP A310 pilots, I have no reason not to belive, keep in mind the A310 flight envelope was respected in full control. This parti
128 Mirrodie: Well said Luis. I can sense the enthusiasm . But I always question the comments here made by non-professional, non-pilots who speak as if they know w
129 StrangeLESI: There is no lifes at risk! ( besides the pilots ) Look at the pictures from Luis ( Always the best ) reckless is flying old planes with no maintenance
130 SQ325: @Mirage to clarify one thing! I said nothing against your country and your people. I just wanted to point out that this kind of flying is not acceptab
131 Toast: Thank God it was wreckless. This is some truly amazing footage. It looks like the left wing is 2 to 3 meters off the ground. I don't know whether it'
132 Mirage: I know, no problem, I wrote that directed to everybody in general and no one in particular Luis
133 Mirrodie: Like I said, I love your enthusiasm. And also as you said, everyone DOEs indeed have a right to an opinion. But wouldn't it be nice if those opinions
134 CV990: Hi! I don't have any problem to say that I'm "non-professional" guy in this matter....just my user profile and you'll see it....no problem at all!!! I
135 Stickers: Much of what i think has already been said, but just to add this thought. Airshows are meant to provide "WOW" moments. These moments are by definition
136 CBPhoto: Very well Said....welcome to my RU!!! I just want to add, by looking at Luis's pictures, the left wing actually does not appear to the "very" close t
137 EDDB: Guys, I respect that you are proud of Captain Brito..... I respect what he has done and achieved in his life.... I respect TAP as a professional and
138 OwlEye: Mmmmm, it was near but that one didn't look that bad. Was that the same low pass?
139 AF2323: This video doesn't show that (sorry if it has already been posted) : http://youtube.com/watch?v=rYfhC9ft_hk
140 EarlyNFF: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkJr2kY1TqY&NR=1 when you look at this one, you can see exactly that he is flying right above spectators. BTW, nothing
141 Mirage: Now you're starting to talk about what you don't know, those are a group of plane spotters under proper escort by the organization to photograph the
142 Vmax: Flipping heck I tend to lurk more than post on here but did watching those clips make anyone else's stomach muscles all clench at the same time? I th
143 Stickers: Thanks CBPhoto, much appreciated. Stickers
144 Mirrodie: Leave that to the pros to debate. Amazing how its such a hot topic. If you are indeed a retired pilot, can you please explain further why? Neither do
146 EarlyNFF: I don´t care about famous names. I don´t care about the position he is holding. I don´t care about many flying hours he gathered. I do care about
147 Mandala499: I read a very good comment just now... from someone who claims to be Portuguese and flies the 310 in Portugal but not with TAP.... Nice and objective.
148 Stickers: What the attitude of the pilot is was is speculation at best. You cannot know that. (Unless he contributes to this thread.) And as stated in my previ
149 Mirrodie: I don't know, which is why I *politely* asked for an explanation. Unless we were in the cockpit and sims with the pilot, none of us know what was tru
150 Andz: Are you a pilot? From what I have heard from very experienced commercial pilots, you can do more in a sim than the real thing. I'm not being facetiou
151 EarlyNFF: not quite correct: you can do more in a sim than you WOULD do in an aircraft. Just to avoid risks. It cannot do things that the aircraft can not. The
152 EDDB: I thought is was obvious when I said that I'm in a Sim quite regularly.... So the answer is yes! What your friends maybe wanted to state by saying "y
153 Breiz: Personally, I would regard you as a true air enthusiast. CV990, now that the dust blown up by CS-TEI has settled down, would you be able to get some
154 Sbworcs: I look ad the video and whilst it looks really low the height of the ground in view could play a part in making the pass look so low??
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