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Thai Aws Goes For B748, B789, A350, A321, B739  
User currently offlinePlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6816 posts, RR: 77
Posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 18394 times:

According to its president, Thai Airways has decided to buy eight Boeing 747-8 and a mix of Boeing 737-900, Boeing 787-9, Airbus A350 and Airbus A321. Though, funding isn't clear yet.

Full story:
http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/...OWJONESDJONLINE000306_FORTUNE5.htm


Interesting that TG seems to continue to operate a rather diverse fleet in the future, especially with competing models like B739 and A321.


PH


Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
85 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12480 posts, RR: 34
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 18361 times:

Very interesting indeed, although it has to be said that fleet commonality was never their strong point. What widebody aircraft have they not operated? Tristar and 767 are about the only ones I can think of.

Still, good to see them expand.


User currently offlineAirTranTUS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 18361 times:

Quoting PlaneHunter (Thread starter):
Boeing 787-9, Airbus A350

Would the A350's be -900 and -1000? There would be no overlap then.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21534 posts, RR: 59
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 18362 times:

Quoting PlaneHunter (Thread starter):
According to its president, Thai Airways has decided to buy eight Boeing 747-8 and a mix of Boeing 737-900, Boeing 787-9, Airbus A350 and Airbus A321. Though, funding isn't clear yet.

So they decided on "option 2" which is replace the 747s sooner rather than later. I assume the A350 is the -1000 version to provide a size between the 787-9 and the 748 and replace the remaining 747s that aren't replaced by A380 or 748 (unless they plan to buy more of either of those in the future).



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31056 posts, RR: 87
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 18362 times:
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I asked this in the existing TG thread, but:

Is TG taking the A388 or have the canceled and taken A350s and A321s, instead?

Operating the A321 and 737-900ER would be superfluous, but TG was on the hook for $90 million in A388 deposits they were in risk of forfeiting because they didn't have a cancellation clause written into their A380 contract.


User currently offlineShenzhen From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 1710 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 18334 times:

Good news for everyone. Spread the wealth..........

Cheers


User currently offlineShenzhen From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 1710 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 18303 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 4):
I asked this in the existing TG thread, but:

Is TG taking the A388 or have the canceled and taken A350s and A321s, instead?

Operating the A321 and 737-900ER would be superfluous, but TG was on the hook for $90 million in A388 deposits they were in risk of forfeiting because they didn't have a cancellation clause written into their A380 contract.

Didn't they pickup some additional A330s from the A380 compensation negotiations? If so, probably pretty hard to walk away from a contract.

Cheers


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31056 posts, RR: 87
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 18244 times:
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Quoting Shenzhen (Reply 6):
Didn't they pickup some additional A330s from the A380 compensation negotiations? If so, probably pretty hard to walk away from a contract.

They were talking about it, but I don't recall if the deal was ever consummated.

And even if it was, that doesn't mean it could change again if both parties were willing.  Wink


User currently offlineFlying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4161 posts, RR: 36
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 18174 times:

To put it mildly: CNN appears to be couple of days late - and has written a... well... to be improved article. Local media (especially the Bangkok Post, which has been right on target several times) reported this on the 15th:

Quote:
The carrier's board is considering two options for an investment plan through 2017. It may spend 390 billion baht to order 65 aircraft, 43 of them purchased and 22 leased. It will also consider a second option, for 61 aircraft, 35 purchased and 26 leased, at a cost of 337 billion baht. The final decision will be made by early next month, Mr Apinan said.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/150907_Business/15Sep2007_biz36.php

Simply put: CNN screwed it...

Plus (from the article quoted by the first poster):

Quote:
Thai Airways said in a statement it plans to seek 16 long-range aircraft with capacity of 300-500 seats, 29 medium-range aircraft with 250-350 seat capacity and another 20 aircraft with capacity of 150-250 seats,

Note the phrase "plans to seek" - this is no firm order, just the re-confirmation of what they had said earlier. Besides: it is quite strange that no other news service besides CNNMoney is reporting this "order".

Quoting Stitch (Reply 4):
Is TG taking the A388 or have the canceled and taken A350s and A321s, instead?

Care to elaborate why you raise this question?



Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4791 posts, RR: 43
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 18174 times:

Quoting PlaneHunter (Thread starter):
According to its president, Thai Airways has decided to buy eight Boeing 747-8 and a mix of
Boeing 737-900, Boeing 787-9, Airbus A350 and Airbus A321. Though, funding isn't clear yet.

with such a diverse order of aircraft being placed obviously politics played a part in it.

it seems that :

B 748s will replace the 8 oldest B 744s
B 739s will replace B 734s on domestic routes
B 789s will replace the AB6s
A 350s will be used to replace the oldest A 333s and B 772s
A 321s will be used on domestic & regional routes where the capacity of the AB6 is too high and B 734 too less


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21534 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 18109 times:

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 9):
A 321s will be used on domestic & regional routes where the capacity of the AB6 is too high and B 734 too less

And where they carry LD3s?



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineTeamAmerica From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 1761 posts, RR: 23
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 18050 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 4):
I asked this in the existing TG thread, but:

Yes you did, right after I posted the CNN link.

Apparently A.Net only pays attention to news if posted in a brand new thread. hissyfit 



Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31056 posts, RR: 87
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 18027 times:
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Quoting Flying-Tiger (Reply 8):
Care to elaborate why you raise this question?


  • Because the A388 is not mentioned in the article.
  • Because the 747-8I is adding a new type when they already had ordered the A388.
  • Because TG has considered in the past to cancel the A388, but noted they had a non-refundable $90 million deposit.
  • Because TG has said they have been working with Airbus on compensation for the delay of their planes.
  • Because TG is said in the article to have bought the A321 and the 739ER, which both perform identical missions.
  • Because TG is said in the article to have bought the 787 and the A350, so they have some overlap and the A350-1000 would seem a more logical replacement for the remaining 744s not replaced with A388s then the 748 herself if the A388 was staying.


I would hope that my posting record regarding the A388 would make it clear I did not raise the question to cast aspersions on the A380-800. If TG wishes to become the second dual A388/748I operator, more power to them, I say.  Smile


User currently offlinePlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6816 posts, RR: 77
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 18027 times:

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Reply 8):
To put it mildly: CNN appears to be couple of days late - and has written a... well... to be improved article. Local media (especially the Bangkok Post, which has been right on target several times) reported this on the 15th:



Quoting Flying-Tiger (Reply 8):

Simply put: CNN screwed it...

Plus (from the article quoted by the first poster):



Quoting Flying-Tiger (Reply 8):

Note the phrase "plans to seek" - this is no firm order, just the re-confirmation of what they had said earlier. Besides: it is quite strange that no other news service besides CNNMoney is reporting this "order".

CNN refers to a statement made by President Apinan Sumanaseni today - the Bangkok Post article was published three days earlier. CNN also clearly talks about a "decision" to go for the expansion plan involving the retirement of 47 aircraft and procuration of 65 new aircraft - which is also different from the Bangkok Post article where two possible options are mentioned.


PH



Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
User currently offlinePlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6816 posts, RR: 77
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 17966 times:

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 11):
Apparently A.Net only pays attention to news if posted in a brand new thread.

The thread is not only brand new, but refers to an (apparently) made decision - while the older thread refers to two possible fleet options.


PH



Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
User currently offlineGlobeEx From Germany, joined Aug 2007, 742 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 17943 times:

"Thai Airways said in a statement it plans to seek 16 long-range aircraft with capacity of 300-500 seats, 29 medium-range aircraft with 250-350 seat"

well does the 16 aircrafts include 748/A350 and the 29 the 787 or does the 29 aircrafts include A350 and 787 (and the 16 maybe A350/748)? As a 350-1000 would sure fall in the 300+ categorie.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 12):
Because TG is said in the article to have bought the A321 and the 739ER, which both perform identical missions.

Because TG is said in the article to have bought the 787 and the A350, so they have some overlap and the A350-1000 would seem a more logical replacement for the remaining 744s not replaced with A388s then the 748 herself if the A388 was staying.

Well, I really don't see why they ordered A321 and 739. Maybe if it was a 739ER that would make a little bit or sense.
However, if they order(ed) 787-9, A359 and A351 there wouldn't be an overlap.

GlobeEx
GlobeEx

[Edited 2007-09-18 20:55:12]

[Edited 2007-09-18 20:58:15]


As you may presently yourself be fully made aware of, my grammar sucks.
User currently offlineNorcal773 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1447 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 17919 times:

Good for everybody involved. What engines will they chose for the 787? They don't have much of a choice on the 748 much to PM's frustrations.  biggrin 


If you're going through hell, keep going
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31056 posts, RR: 87
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 17881 times:
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I would expect GE will offer them a nice package deal for GEnx power on the 787s to go with it on the 748s.

User currently offlineSkyyMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 17778 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 12):
I would hope that my posting record regarding the A388 would make it clear I did not raise the question to cast aspersions on the A380-800. If TG wishes to become the second dual A388/748I operator, more power to them, I say.

There was considerable rumor on a.net (hard to imagine eh?) that TG and MH would cancel their 380 orders back when the delays were occurring. I think the fact the article does not specifically name the aircraft has probably stirred up some speculation, even though it does say this order does not include 15 current a/c on order. I think Thai will wind up being one of several airlines operating both the 380 and 748 eventually. It is certainly not inconceivable.


User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12570 posts, RR: 46
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 17778 times:
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Quoting Stitch (Reply 12):
Because the A388 is not mentioned in the article.

No, but it does say:

Quote:
The 65 additional aircraft doesn't include 15 aircraft that Thai Airways has already ordered.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineFlying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4161 posts, RR: 36
Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 17778 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 12):
Because the A388 is not mentioned in the article.

It clearly IS mentioned in the article:

Quote:
The 65 additional aircraft doesn't include 15 aircraft that Thai Airways has already ordered.

Per Airbus´current O&D:

- 8 outstanding A330-300 orders
- 1 outstanding A340-600 order
- 6 outstanding A380-800 orders

Total: 15...

Quoting Stitch (Reply 12):
Because the 747-8I is adding a new type when they already had ordered the A388.

Lufthansa has ordered 20 B747-8I in addition to their A380-800 order... so no argument in here.



Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
User currently offlineGlobeEx From Germany, joined Aug 2007, 742 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 17745 times:

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 18):
There was considerable rumor on a.net (hard to imagine eh?) that TG and MH would cancel their 380 orders back when the delays were occurring. I think the fact the article does not specifically name the aircraft has probably stirred up some speculation, even though it does say this order does not include 15 current a/c on order. I think Thai will wind up being one of several airlines operating both the 380 and 748 eventually. It is certainly not inconceivable.

I think it does give an airline a great amount of felxibilty operating 748 and A380 side by side. Just as operating 787-(8)/9 and A350-900/1000 side by side.


GlobeEx



As you may presently yourself be fully made aware of, my grammar sucks.
User currently offlineBlsbls99 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 345 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 17654 times:

[quote=Flying-Tiger,reply=20]Quoting Stitch (Reply 12):
Because the A388 is not mentioned in the article.

It clearly IS mentioned in the article:

Quote:
The 65 additional aircraft doesn't include 15 aircraft that Thai Airways has already ordered.

Per Airbus´current O&D:

- 8 outstanding A330-300 orders
- 1 outstanding A340-600 order
- 6 outstanding A380-800 orders

Total: 15...


The A380 is not clearly mentioned in the article. How many 772ERs are still on order?



319 320 313 722 732 733 735 73G 738 739 742 752 763 772 CRJ D9S ERJ EMB L10 M88 M90 SF3 AT4
User currently offlineTeamAmerica From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 1761 posts, RR: 23
Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 17506 times:

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 14):
The thread is not only brand new, but refers to an (apparently) made decision - while the older thread refers to two possible fleet options.

First - I'm not upset, just amused. The decision was selection of "option 2" exactly as was being discussed in the older thread. We could have just continued with that.

Consider how many times a poster starts a new thread and the first five responses are "already being discussed...please do a search first". So I did. And there was an existing thread. And I posted the new development. And only Stitch noticed. It's amusing. smile 



Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
User currently offlinePlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6816 posts, RR: 77
Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 17438 times:

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 23):
Consider how many times a poster starts a new thread and the first five responses are "already being discussed...please do a search first". So I did. And there was an existing thread. And I posted the new development. And only Stitch noticed.

I noticed that, too. However, apparently a decision has been made by TG - which is news. By reading a title saying "TG to buy between A and B" only few people would expect something about a decision.


PH



Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
25 Scorpio : It was: the deal for eight A330s was officially booked by Airbus.
26 Scbriml : Indeed it was, on 19th June during the order orgy that was Paris!
27 Post contains links Da man : As of the August 2007 Monthly Orders and Deliveries Update, TG has 2 undelivered 772ERs. http://active.boeing.com/commercial/...t=modelselection.cfm&
28 Ikramerica : Advantages of the A321: LD3s, wider cabin, engine choices Advantages of the 739ER: commonality to 734s, doesn't require "widebody" ground equipment N
29 Post contains images GlobeEx : Well if they really need the A346 at the moment, what I suggest they do, they sure won't cancel it. It will be quite a while until the A350s will com
30 Ikramerica : do they need the A346 specifically, or the lift but not on 6500nm routes? The A346 delivery position can be converted to A330, and that A346 can be "
31 Post contains images GlobeEx : So LH also buys outdated aircrafts? Makes me wonder why they claim that the A346 is their best long haul aircraft. Strange they must know nothing abo
32 Zvezda : Stitch was not suggesting the TG walk away from a contract, but rather convert one. Airbus would be happy to convert TG's WhaleJet order to an A350 o
33 Post contains links and images Hloutweg : Modified Airliner Photos:Design © Luis ContrerasTemplate © Luis Contreras I think he's refering to the 737-900 and the A321 which do overlap in capa
34 Shenzhen : Not saying that a contract would/could/should be converted from A388 to A321s and A350s, but I doubt Airbus would be happy to lose a Customer for the
35 ZKSUJ : Great news for TG and the 747-800 passenger programme
36 SRMD11 : Why B737-900 and not a pure A32X Fleet? Thailands crown prince, his highness Maha Vajiralongkorn is a B737 Pilot and fly for Thai sometimes. Could be
37 Post contains images Shenzhen : Why the A321 and not keep with a 737 fleet. Probably has something to do with selling shrimp in the EU. Could this be a reason. Maybe some Thai A net
38 Da man : Maybe the two outstanding 772ERs were converted to 739ERs, 789s or 748s?
39 Ikramerica : Yes. I'm sorry if that bothers you, but the A346 is clearly outdated at this point when airlines are ordering A350s and A330s and 787s and 77Ws. LH h
40 Shenzhen : It might have to do with operational issues, such as ETOPS certification. Lets say they no longer have 180 minute approval, then it might make sense
41 Zvezda : Have TG in fact lost ETOPS180 certification?
42 777ER : It appears Boeing is the biggest winner in the order. Congrats to both A and B
43 JSquared : Forgive me if I'm overstating, but isn't the fact that another major airline has finally stated their intentions to actually buy the 747-8i pretty si
44 6thfreedom : Have the B739 and A321 got the same range. I think this would be a great aircraft to have... Domestic services and regional services to smaller ports
45 Post contains images Stitch : On the flip side, Airbus is likely to sell far more A32x and A35x planes to TG then A38x models. Also, Boeing already having their foot in the door w
46 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : Touche'. Interesting that some didn't consider that the Boeing's might have been canceled . -Dave
47 Ikramerica : It's highly unlikely that they would place an order in late 2004, start deliveries 10 months ago, receive 4 of the 6, then cancel/convert the other t
48 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : And touche' again. I, for one, didn't consider a Boeing cancellation, so the comment was directed at myself as much as anyone else. Point taken. -Dav
49 Post contains images Stitch : TG's next 777-200ER is preparing for delivery at PAE as we speak, so...
50 Post contains images Ikramerica : Yeah, I thought I saw a pic of it recently, and the other is under construction, so the chances of cancellations are almost nil. But, that might be w
51 Da man : Unfortunately, that seems like what really happened. The media has showed its bias and how little it understands the whole airline industry yet again
52 Ohsopc : I am actually really skeptical about them ordering 787,350,321, and 739. I think thwat the article meant to say was that they are choosing between 787
53 Bok269 : Let's hope it goes through...the 748 could use a boost right about now.
54 Spoke2Spoke : I would like to add an observation that I don't think has been made in this thread. Fleet commonality may be a highly overrated cost saver. Fleet comm
55 Flying-Tiger : From ATWonline, Wednesday issue: So much for a placed order... CNNMOney got it wrong, that´s it, nothing else.
56 Post contains images TrijetsRMissed : I for one am just very happy to see another 748I order. Now maybe we won't have to read speculation about the 748I program being scrapped altogether a
57 Worldrider : THAI won't cancel their 6 A380 believe or not, they will be happy to have them on LHR, CDG and FRA,, intense competition from their west and it's gro
58 JRDC930 : My thoughts exactly. I think the intent to possibly order the 748I from another airline is an important development; and a much needed one for the pa
59 Zvezda : That intense competition is why TG need a smaller aircraft with low CASM.
60 EK413 : I believe TG isnt receiving additional A330s due to the delay of the A380... Politics... EK413
61 Worldrider : LHR, FRA? where are the free slots? maybe LH BA or EK would be happy to sell them a few slots, good price foyou! Thai way of saying..
62 Worldrider : politics? i'd ratther say a very good deal!
63 Worldrider : politics? thai main exports to EU: iindustrial CHEAP CHICKEN. and belive me, the million ruined little thai farmers are not very happy. John L: ohhh
64 Zvezda : Who said anything in this thread about increasing frequency? A 747-8I SuperJumbo will generate substantially higher RASM than a WhaleJet. With CASM a
65 CHRISBA777ER : CNN jumping the gun - load of trumped up rubbish. Nothings been decided. With all due respect, I've flown to BKK from LHR/LGW nine times in the last
66 Columba : Yeah, for the 747-8I !!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am also glad that they ordered the A350. It does seem that the 787 and A350 can be used in one fleet, I hope ot
67 Columba : The A346 is not outdated it is the same generation of aircraft as the 77W. The A346 available much earlier as the A350-1000 so it still makes sense t
68 Thorben : Their fleet continues to amaze me: A388 and 747-8 (OK, they are really not the same size) A350 and 789 A321 and 739 Anyway, nice lift for the 747-8I p
69 Someone83 : Nope, the 330 and 346 are not completely build on the same assembly line
70 CHRISBA777ER : Neither would I. One of theirs is a non-HGW version, and the others are. I can see them taking interim lift A346 until they get the A359/10. In theor
71 Thorben : Are you sure on the HGW-issue? I thought it was that all theirs are non-HGW except the last A345 and one (not delivered yet) A346. The article also m
72 CHRISBA777ER : ...and the next day TG upped frequencies to the US. A lot of people are looking at current A345 users and willing them to trade them in for 77Ls. I s
73 CHRISBA777ER : I think the 783 has a chance here - OEW notwithstanding, I think TG would benefit from some -3s but a larger fleet of 8s would probably be more flexi
74 JAAlbert : I can't wait to see the new and improved and larger 748 taxiing across the tarmac! There is nothing like the 747!
75 Thorben : Yes, some people think that the 777NG needs 100% less fuel than the A340NG and that therefore every A340NG user is dying to change them for T7s. SQ h
76 Boeing74741R : Why not? After all they only have 10 737's in the fleet and they are -400s (understandable if they were 737NGs up for replacement) so a switch to Air
77 DAYflyer : Wow thats quite the mix. It does seem to be a "politically correct" order, although both sides certainly wish they could have had exclusivity.
78 Post contains images Astuteman : I've yet to see any substantive evidence that this hypothesis (which is all it is) is correct. Having just booked flights from UK to Aus via Singapor
79 Zvezda : Price elasticity of demand. Reduce the supply and the average price goes up. This is very basic economics.
80 CHRISBA777ER : So basically you are saying that TG will be able to fill the A388, but the biblical flood of extra seats will make yields fall?
81 Astuteman : Indeed. Way too basic IMO. If the supply provided by an A380 STILL doesn't match demand, then prices will remain strong, as evidenced above. The airl
82 Zvezda : Loads are one thing. Yields are another. Demand for both VLAs is next to non-existent. The sales data set is far to small to be statistically signifi
83 SandroZRH : Too basic. That might work for a short period of time, but soon, competition will wake up and fill the capacity gap. In the end, the own party would
84 PlaneHunter : If you compare the articles carefully you'll find the difference. PH
85 Zvezda : The competition might decide to sacrifice profitability to increase marketshare. So what? There are plenty of examples of this in the airline industr
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