Andz From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8298 posts, RR: 11 Reply 1, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4576 times:
I heard something on the radio today about SAA changing routes into Africa as part of restructuring, along with lounge changes, but no details. Wait until next week and things will change again.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
Reggaebird From Jamaica, joined Nov 1999, 1169 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4431 times:
They are returning to Accra because Delta is doing very well on the JFK Accra route and SAA sees a revenue opportunity. I have read that Delta's loads are above expectations. SAA are thinking "why leave that whole market Delta?".
EXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4364 times:
Quoting Reggaebird (Reply 3): SAA are thinking "why leave that whole market Delta?".
That is a fine strategy so long as they can also sell ACC-JNB.....why sell JFK-ACC, and displace a JFK-JNB pax unless you can also sell ACC-JNB? Someone at SA better be good ar RM.
N383PA From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 104 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4265 times:
SAA used to fly the JNB-ACC-JFK route in the past but didn't have any traffic rights between ACC and JFK. It looks like the government in Ghana changed there mind. SAA is currently flying to ACC with A340 from JNB.A few of them flights go via ABJ.
As SAA is flying the daily JNB-IAD service via DKR anyway I guess this opportunity to fly a certain amount of JFK services via ACC is an additional money maker for them.
I think they dont go daily JNB-ACC-JFK as their wouldn't be any US flights to DKR as the IAD-JNB service goes nonstop.
It could be that SAA didn't get any more frequencies from the government in Ghana to go daily on this route.
SA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 2916 posts, RR: 20 Reply 7, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4219 times:
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Quoting N383PA (Reply 6): SAA used to fly the JNB-ACC-JFK route in the past but didn't have any traffic rights between ACC and JFK
SA started their JNB-IAD service via ACC - I was on one of those flights. SA never flew JNB-ACC-JFK. They used to fly JNB-SID-JFK and at some stage flew JNB-LOS-JFK (codeshare with the defunct Nigeria Airways) in order to provide service between the USA and Nigeria. Thereafter, SA switched their stopover for the JFK-flight from SID to DKR.
Rgds
SA7700
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud
Rdwootty From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 900 posts, RR: 2 Reply 9, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4159 times:
Just as an aside, thus route would not have been possible in the 1970's as SAA had a strict colour rule.No Coloured person could be seated next to a white person. In additon this was also a Clipper route for PANAM . Just for your info
Flighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 7427 posts, RR: 2 Reply 10, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4082 times:
Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 5): That is a fine strategy so long as they can also sell ACC-JNB.....why sell JFK-ACC, and displace a JFK-JNB pax unless you can also sell ACC-JNB? Someone at SA better be good ar RM.
PanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 10 Reply 11, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4054 times:
Quote: In additon this was also a Clipper route for PANAM.
PA also operated this route as JFK-ROB-JNB for a time, a long with an extensive West African network.
The problem with SAA is the announcement of routes and then withdrawing before they start - Chicago is a prime example.
While there is a good need for NYC-South Africa, I would like to see SAA concentrate on IAD - that's the Star Alliance hub, and a good place to get feed.
And I agree about the ACC-JFK traffic rights - did something change in Ghana?
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WorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 12, posted (5 years 8 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4008 times:
Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 8): Maybe they're also trying to nip SA)">DL-as SA)">DL has joined the competition with their ATL-DKR-JNB flights. Are they doing well enough to compete with SAA?
SA)">DL has already upgraded this route from a 763 to a 764 and is talking about putting a 777 on the route I think the real question is whether SA can compete with SA)">DL; the latter is in much better financial shape and has airplanes to xpand throughout its growing African network.
AA767400 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2271 posts, RR: 26 Reply 13, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3741 times:
Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 12): SA)">DL has already upgraded this route from a 763 to a 764 and is talking about putting a 777 on the route I think the real question is whether SA can compete with SA)">DL; the latter is in much better financial shape and has airplanes to xpand throughout its growing African network
Only a DL supporter would say something like that. SA can hold it's own in Ghana even with their present situation which is far better than what DL went and is still going through.
The national carrier has secured air traffic rights to take passengers on from Accra, Ghana's capital, to New York. It was denied these rights last year, although travel agents in Ghana had expected it to be a popular route. As a result, SAA routed its flights from Johannesburg to New York by way of Dakar.
As usual the media has one or two facts wrong. SA was actually flying JNB-ACC-IAD-ACC-JNB at the time. I am not aware of any ACC-JFK-ACC plans by SA last year.
Sean, if you are out there, how does G0 feel about this development or are you guys going to concentrate on LGW for the time being?
Rgds
SA7700
[Edited 2007-09-20 07:55:58]
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud
Alitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4656 posts, RR: 45 Reply 15, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3657 times:
Panamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4583 posts, RR: 26 Reply 16, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3558 times:
Quoting AA767400 (Reply 13): SA can hold it's own in Ghana even with their present situation which is far better than what DL went and is still going through.
Correct about what DL went through, but not what DL is "still going through". Last I checked, DL has been making profits...SAA has not.
PA110 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1949 posts, RR: 26 Reply 17, posted (5 years 8 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3554 times:
Quoting AA767400 (Reply 13): Only a DL supporter would say something like that. SA can hold it's own in Ghana even with their present situation which is far better than what DL went and is still going through.
Actually, the situation is quite the opposite. SA's current management has risen to its highest level of incompetency, and can't really progress any further without some fresh ideas, and new managers. DL collected several years of passenger data at SA's expense (basically handed to them on a silver platter) during the years SA operated out of ATL in marketing partnership with DL. DL easily recognized SA's incompetence and grabbed the first opportunity they could, given their finances at the time, to start their own operation, capitalizing on their domestic feed, and SA's inability to negotiate its way out of a paper bag.
SA is moving the transit stop from DKR to ACC because their JFK-JNB service isn't performing up to expectations. SA must rely almost entirely on the JFK O&D market, because SA's current marketing partner (UA) lacks any significant feed to/from JFK. Almost all North American traffic is routed over IAD, which has much better feed.
Second, despite large numbers of Senegalese living in the New York Area, there has never been enough traffic to justify daily service between JFK and DKR, even if it is only to "top-off" the JFK-JNB loads. Plus, there is virtually no local traffic at all between DKR and JNB. SA can't fill the flight all the way to JNB, and when they fill it just to DKR, they can't fill the empty seat between DKR and JNB. Not a very profitable way to operate a route if you ask me.
Third, DL has siphoned off quite a bit of business from SA, due to the strength of their presence in the NY area, their corporate and leisure marketing, and their frequent flyer brand loyalty.
The truth is SA continues to hemorrhage cash at an alarming rate, and Khaya continues to fiddle while Rome burns. SA is grasping at straws, because they currently lack the leadership to do much of anything else.
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