Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
FL Announces TPA To MSP/PIT/DTW/BOS  
User currently offlineMikey711MN From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1398 posts, RR: 8
Posted (7 years 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3946 times:

From the AirTran press release:

Quote:
AirTran Airways, a subsidiary of AirTran Holdings, Inc. (NYSE: AAI), today announced that it will be adding new, nonstop flights, beginning in December, between Tampa International Airport and: Logan International Airport in Boston, Mass.; Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport in Minnesota; Detroit Metropolitan Wayne County Airport in Michigan and Pittsburgh International Airport in Pennsylvania.

AirTran Airways will offer the following nonstop flight options between Tampa and Boston, effective December 20:

Nonstop Service between Tampa and Boston

From To Flight Departs Arrives Frequency
Tampa Boston 883 2:25 5:25 Daily
p.m. p.m.
Boston Tampa 882 10:30 1:45 Daily
a.m. p.m.



AirTran Airways will offer the following nonstop flight options between Tampa and Minneapolis-St. Paul, effective January 8, 2008:

Nonstop Service between Tampa and Minneapolis-St. Paul

From To Flight Departs Arrives Frequency
Tampa Minneapolis- 781 4:30 7:00 Daily
St. Paul p.m. p.m.
Minneapolis- Tampa 780 11:30 3:50 Daily
St. Paul a.m. p.m.



AirTran Airways will offer the following nonstop flight options between Tampa and Detroit, effective February 14, 2008:

Nonstop Service between Tampa and Detroit

From To Flight Departs Arrives Frequency
Tampa Detroit 286 3:12 5:46 Daily
p.m. p.m.
Detroit Tampa 287 12:02 2:37 Daily
p.m. p.m.



AirTran Airways will offer the following nonstop flight options between Tampa and Pittsburgh, effective February 16, 2008:

Nonstop Service between Tampa and Pittsburgh

From To Flight Departs Arrives Frequency
Tampa Pittsburgh 809 5:50 8:15 Saturday
p.m. p.m.
Pittsburgh Tampa 808 2:50 5:15 Saturday
p.m. p.m.


Hmmm...TPA to both MSP and DTW?!? Surely that will garner some sort of response!

-Mike


I plan on living forever. So far, so good...
35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3292 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3935 times:

Darn, there goes my hopes for a return to DTW-FLL..... Looks like TPA is this years golden child.

User currently offlineAf773atmsp From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2688 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3902 times:

Awesome! More air service at MSP!  hyper  Will FL operate TPA-MSP using the 717, 737, or both?


It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
User currently offlineLexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2515 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3900 times:

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 1):
Looks like TPA is this years golden child.

It should've been a given it would be a Florida city. LOL!



Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32788 posts, RR: 72
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3856 times:

Leave it to AirTran to make a big deal about routes that, with the exception of TPA-MSP, aren't new at all.

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 1):
Darn, there goes my hopes for a return to DTW-FLL.

It is returning. Don't know the date it re-starts, but it is there. FL 877/878.



a.
User currently offlinePremoBrimo From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 425 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3759 times:

Can't wait for a response from NW


Now You're Flying Smart.
User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4403 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3740 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Mikey711MN (Thread starter):
AirTran Airways



Quoting Mikey711MN (Thread starter):
more nonstop flight options



Quoting Mikey711MN (Thread starter):
Minneapolis-St. Paul



Quoting Mikey711MN (Thread starter):
effective January 8, 2008:

Northwest will hate those words.  Smile



Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD.
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7591 posts, RR: 27
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3641 times:

FL has flown DTW-TPA in the past. As well as NK who has operated that route for a while.

I don't think NW will be too concerned about competition on low-yield Florida leisure routes that already have substancial competition. Fares are already reasonable on these routes to begin with, but of course anyone with an airline can fill a route to Florida from the north during the winter.


Yawn.


User currently offlineCitrusCritter From Pitcairn Islands, joined May 2007, 1104 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3620 times:

Come on TPA-MEM, FLL-MEM, MDW-MEM and BWI-MEM. Take it to NW there.  mischievous   cool 


TLH
User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3563 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 4):
Leave it to AirTran to make a big deal about routes that, with the exception of TPA-MSP, aren't new at all.

airTran has not flown PITTPA nonstop before. Trust me. The only markets FL has served from PIT include ATL, MDW, FLL, LGA, MCO, and PHL. Too bad PIT travellers won't take advantage of the opportunity, they never have with FL. The only airline to most people here is still US Airways, despite WN's constant ads, especially during Pirate games. I always found those ads to be quite odd, as Delta is the official airline of the Pirates.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3536 times:

Good news for FL, although I'm sure it will draw quite a bit of ire from NW and an increase in frequencies with a price match.


One Nation Under God
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3511 times:

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 8):
MEM. Take it to NW there

...a little too much of that, and watch NW take it (all) from there.

Would contend that it's only a matter of time until MEM gets down to about 30 destinations and 150 daily departures. I hear STL, RDU, BNA, and PIT have a support group for such.  Wink


User currently offlineN908AW From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 934 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3507 times:

Quoting Mikey711MN (Thread starter):

Hmmm...TPA to both MSP and DTW?!? Surely that will garner some sort of response!

*dramatic chord* The plot thickens!

I was hoping for that...it's probably even easier for FL to do since SY is over at PIE...only *direct* competition comes from NW. What's interesting is how little presence NW has in TPA...when I was there seemed their only aircraft were DC-9s and A319s while everybody else had 757s!



'Cause you're on ATA again, and on ATA, you're on vacation!
User currently offlineCitrusCritter From Pitcairn Islands, joined May 2007, 1104 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3453 times:

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 11):
...a little too much of that, and watch NW take it (all) from there.

You know, I wish. If FL really wanted to stick it to NW, they could do it in MEM. NW keeps MEM around so they have a hub not up north. But if FL went in 100% determined (which they don't do of course, but for argument's sake), they could push NW out. MEM underperforms O&D for NW, and FL could stimulate a low-fare market. MEM is poorer than many cities its size, which is one reason it underperforms, so if FL went in with low fares, I think there is market stimulation to be had.



TLH
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23021 posts, RR: 20
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3446 times:

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 13):
so if FL went in with low fares, I think there is market stimulation to be had.

Is it really worth it for them, though? NW would fight like crazy, and NW will win a fare war between the two any time.

And does FL really want to push legacies around with low fares? Arguably, they have a product that COULD exact a fare premium from passengers. They need to figure out if they want to be in the F9/B6 crowd or the SX/NK crowd. IMO you can't simultaneously be in both camps.

[Edited 2007-09-20 16:50:05]


I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7591 posts, RR: 27
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3438 times:

NW typically doesn't care too much when someone enters a low yield, leisure market. Their response is to simply price match. Considering NW significantly more capacity than FL as it is now anways.

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 11):
Would contend that it's only a matter of time until MEM gets down to about 30 destinations and 150 daily departures.

NW is not scaling back in MEM. It will be primarily status-quo, with some realignment of capacity when the CR9's & E75's make their way to MEM to right-size some CRJ-200 & DC-9 routes.

Quoting N908AW (Reply 12):
What's interesting is how little presence NW has in TPA...when I was there seemed their only aircraft were DC-9s and A319s while everybody else had 757s!

NW ramps up seasonally in TPA, along with RSW. During the summer is mostly DC-9's & A319/A320.
During the winter, NW adds several additional frequencies on DTW / MSP and bumps many up to 757's.

NW Feb. 2007 TPA Schedule:
DTW: 6 (5 - 752, 1 - A319/A320)
MSP: 4 (3 - 752, 1 - A320) all 757 on Saturdays
MEM: 3 (1 - D9S, 1 - D95, 1 - A319)
IND: 2 (2 - D9S)
FNT: 1 (1 - D9S)
Total - 16

NW Summer 2007 TPA Schedule:
DTW: 3 (2 - A320, 1 - 752)
MSP: 2 (2 - 752)
MEM: 2 (2 - D95)
IND: 1 (1 - D9S)
Total - 8


User currently offlineCitrusCritter From Pitcairn Islands, joined May 2007, 1104 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3433 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 14):
F9/B6 crowd or the SX/NK crowd

Well I think that is a legitimate question, and I'd argue there in the WN crowd -- in the middle. The question on MEM is whether it is worth it for NW to defend MEM to the last. It's not MSP. MEM is a place where low-cost stimulation can be had and NW is not as strong because of the weak O&D. FL could carve out its own market while taking some of NW's. And it would probably lead to a NW drawdown because MEM barely survives as it is.



TLH
User currently offlineB752OS From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1322 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 days ago) and read 3372 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 7):
I don't think NW will be too concerned about competition on low-yield Florida leisure routes that already have substancial competition. Fares are already reasonable on these routes to begin with, but of course anyone with an airline can fill a route to Florida from the north during the winter.

How do you figure there is substantial competition on MSP-TPA? MSP is a one airline dominated airport. If you were to say there is substantial competition on LGA-TPA, then I would agree.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23021 posts, RR: 20
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3296 times:

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 16):
FL could carve out its own market while taking some of NW's. And it would probably lead to a NW drawdown because MEM barely survives as it is.

I think that in the long run, FL could succeed at MEM (as I stated above, I don't think they have the fortitude or the money to fight NW off, but that's another story for another day). I am unsure, however, whether NW would really draw MEM down as much as you think. There are two things to keep in mind.

1) NW is great at flying big planes to small places. We talk about this all the time at airports like MBS or FAR, but 250 daily seats to BTR (for all of 23 daily passengers)? At all three hubs, NW makes money connecting passengers from small airports, and based on the number of seats the pour into these markets, I think we'd be completely justified in concluding that these passengers are more important to NW than to other legacies. FL isn't going to do anything to this traffic.

2) We periodically talk about yields being bad at MEM (they are compared to the other two hubs) but this is partially by design, as NW will route lower-yielding connecting passengers over its hub with the weakest local traffic. That purpose will be there regardless of what FL does, and given the gate situation at MEM, it probably won't be much.

MEM seems like another MDW to me. FL tried to go after the business fliers at MDW, and they failed (because of two entrenched legacies up the road). While they can (and I think will) certainly make inroads at MEM, I wonder if they'll ever get to the critical mass necessary to be a serious player for business traffic.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7591 posts, RR: 27
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3231 times:

Quoting B752OS (Reply 17):
How do you figure there is substantial competition on MSP-TPA? MSP is a one airline dominated airport. If you were to say there is substantial competition on LGA-TPA, then I would agree.

Currently 2 airlines flying nonstop to Tampa NW-TPA, SX-PIE.
Over 12 airlines offer 1-stop connecting service, all with prices between $230-$250 r/t. There are no less than at least 30 viable 1-stop options on MSP-TPA
NW offers the lowest cost (although maybe by only as little as $1) in many instances - and nonstop too. Currently NW is cheaper than FL through MDW.
FL offering 1 seasonal flight is going to minimal impact on anything. FL is doing what it does best here - Florida.

Since it is a price sensitive market, the leisure travelers don't necessarily mind a connection to save a few bucks, hence why NW already prices this route competitively. FL isn't going to come in an offer $29 one-way fares, sorry.

MSP is not strangled by high fares on the majority of busy routes, unlike what everyone on A.net likes to believe. There is competition on many routes too as much of the routes have at least one other airline offering some form of nonstop service and pretty much everyone offers connections.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 18):
MEM seems like another MDW to me. FL tried to go after the business fliers at MDW, and they failed (because of two entrenched legacies up the road). While they can (and I think will) certainly make inroads at MEM, I wonder if they'll ever get to the critical mass necessary to be a serious player for business traffic.

I agree with you Cubsrule. There is such a small pot of business travelers to begin with in MEM, and there is no way that FL could offer enough choices to make them a viable option. One-off routes business routes have not proven to be successful for FL. LCC's could siphon off leisure traffic at MEM, but the market is too small for anyone to make inroads and not get trashed by NW in the process.


User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4403 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3152 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting DTW.SCE" class=quote target=_blank>PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 19):
MSP is not strangled by high fares on the majority of busy routes, unlike what everyone on A.net likes to believe.

Off the top of my head, some routes like MSP-CVG, DTW, LGA, SLC all have very high last minute fares.



Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD.
User currently offlineJohnyv From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3100 times:

So much for DAY i guess???

User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6438 posts, RR: 17
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3041 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 4):
Leave it to AirTran to make a big deal about routes that, with the exception of TPA-MSP, aren't new at all.



Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 9):
airTran has not flown PITTPA nonstop before

And as far as I know, they haven't served TPA-BOS either.



Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32788 posts, RR: 72
Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3026 times:

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 22):
Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 9):
airTran has not flown PITTPA nonstop before

And as far as I know, they haven't served TPA-BOS either.

I'm pretty sure they flew TPA-BOS last year, but not positive. Also, I recall TPA-PIT being booked and loaded into timetables last winter or the winter before, and it never started. I stand corrected if I'm wrong on either.



a.
User currently offline717-200 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 601 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2993 times:

NW Feb. 2007 TPA Schedule:
DTW: 6 (5 - 752, 1 - A319/A320)
MSP: 4 (3 - 752, 1 - A320) all 757 on Saturdays
MEM: 3 (1 - D9S, 1 - D95, 1 - A319)
IND: 2 (2 - D9S)
FNT: 1 (1 - D9S)
Total - 16

I'm surprised that NW doesn't slip in a 753 or something larger on the MSP and DTW runs.



72S 733 734 735 73G 738 742 752 763 E190 M82 M83
25 ConcordeBoy : ....would they though? I'm not talking about a methodical scale-down, I'm talking total abandonment as a hub-- be it as a result of financial realign
26 TVNWZ : Wow. I fly through there a lot. Planes are always full and the prices are not low. I find in more expensive to connect on NW through MEM than DTW or
27 PSU.DTW.SCE : Nothing unique to MSP, there are hundreds of markets where this is the case. Even with AA now on MSP-LGA, last minute fares aren't going to magically
28 ConcordeBoy : I'm not talking about a calculated scaleback, I'm talking about complete abandonment as a hub. While MEM is certainly in a unique position (super-low
29 ATLAaron : That was before . . . I think things have changed since FL tried some of the other PIT routes. However, I don't think Saturday only service to TPA is
30 CitrusCritter : I am surprised that with their propensity for seasonal vacation routes, that FL does not open seasonal stations at VPS and PFN. VPS especially is boom
31 Steeler83 : You can say that again... Things have changed... like a 50+% reduction in traffic thanks to US pulling their hub... They had flights to PHL, LGA, and
32 Cubsrule : There's a key difference between those hubs and MEM, though. If you subtract MEM from NW, you lose much more of the network than subtracting PIT from
33 FlyPNS1 : While FL does like seasonal routes, they usually prefer the market to be able to sustain some flights year round....hence why MYR got dumped in favor
34 TOLtommy : I sure hope so, FL service is a good alternative in DTW. You've got the low end nickle and dime on NK, and the "passenger processing" of NW. Besides,
35 Steeler83 : I don't WN will grow PIT into a major WN city (40 flights tops), and B6 I think will remain with just JFK and BOS. US just gets smaller and smaller a
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Mesaba Pilots To Picket On Monday At MSP, MEM, DTW posted Fri Dec 16 2005 23:14:33 by KarlB737
B6 To Use E190s On BOS-FL Routes posted Sun Oct 23 2005 04:35:51 by JetBluefan1
NW Announces Idaho Falls To MSP posted Mon Mar 7 2005 17:18:49 by Iowaman
NW 71 DTW-NGO Diverted To MSP posted Sun Feb 22 2004 01:25:49 by KaiGywer
USAirways Announces No Intention To Leave PIT posted Fri Dec 19 2003 15:08:47 by Garnetpalmetto
Trip Report: US Airways DTW-PHL-BOS-PIT-DTW posted Tue Aug 8 2000 01:09:23 by Fjnovak1
First US Airways Trip: DTW-PHL-BOS-PIT-DTW! posted Tue Jul 25 2000 04:36:57 by Fjnovak1
Allegiant Announces GSP To FLL posted Tue Sep 4 2007 03:19:55 by KarlB737
Allegiant Announces Greensboro To FLL posted Fri Aug 31 2007 17:18:08 by FATFlyer
AA To Start DFW-PLS; BOS-PLS; More MIA-PLS posted Sat Aug 25 2007 20:31:42 by MAH4546