Quote: AirTran Airways, a subsidiary of AirTran Holdings, Inc. (NYSE: AAI), today announced that it will be adding new, nonstop flights, beginning in December, between Tampa International Airport and: Logan International Airport in Boston, Mass.; Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport in Minnesota; Detroit Metropolitan Wayne County Airport in Michigan and Pittsburgh International Airport in Pennsylvania.
AirTran Airways will offer the following nonstop flight options between Tampa and Boston, effective December 20:
Nonstop Service between Tampa and Boston
From To Flight Departs Arrives Frequency
Tampa Boston 883 2:25 5:25 Daily
p.m. p.m.
Boston Tampa 882 10:30 1:45 Daily
a.m. p.m.
AirTran Airways will offer the following nonstop flight options between Tampa and Minneapolis-St. Paul, effective January 8, 2008:
Nonstop Service between Tampa and Minneapolis-St. Paul
From To Flight Departs Arrives Frequency
Tampa Minneapolis- 781 4:30 7:00 Daily
St. Paul p.m. p.m.
Minneapolis- Tampa 780 11:30 3:50 Daily
St. Paul a.m. p.m.
AirTran Airways will offer the following nonstop flight options between Tampa and Detroit, effective February 14, 2008:
Nonstop Service between Tampa and Detroit
From To Flight Departs Arrives Frequency
Tampa Detroit 286 3:12 5:46 Daily
p.m. p.m.
Detroit Tampa 287 12:02 2:37 Daily
p.m. p.m.
AirTran Airways will offer the following nonstop flight options between Tampa and Pittsburgh, effective February 16, 2008:
Nonstop Service between Tampa and Pittsburgh
From To Flight Departs Arrives Frequency
Tampa Pittsburgh 809 5:50 8:15 Saturday
p.m. p.m.
Pittsburgh Tampa 808 2:50 5:15 Saturday
p.m. p.m.
Hmmm...TPA to both MSP and DTW?!? Surely that will garner some sort of response!
Af773atmsp From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2578 posts, RR: 2 Reply 2, posted (5 years 8 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 2947 times:
Awesome! More air service at MSP! Will FL operate TPA-MSP using the 717, 737, or both?
PSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 6872 posts, RR: 29 Reply 7, posted (5 years 8 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2686 times:
FL has flown DTW-TPA in the past. As well as NK who has operated that route for a while.
I don't think NW will be too concerned about competition on low-yield Florida leisure routes that already have substancial competition. Fares are already reasonable on these routes to begin with, but of course anyone with an airline can fill a route to Florida from the north during the winter.
USPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3266 posts, RR: 8 Reply 9, posted (5 years 8 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2608 times:
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 4): Leave it to AirTran to make a big deal about routes that, with the exception of TPA-MSP, aren't new at all.
airTran has not flown PITTPA nonstop before. Trust me. The only markets FL has served from PIT include ATL, MDW, FLL, LGA, MCO, and PHL. Too bad PIT travellers won't take advantage of the opportunity, they never have with FL. The only airline to most people here is still US Airways, despite WN's constant ads, especially during Pirate games. I always found those ads to be quite odd, as Delta is the official airline of the Pirates.
DAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 4 Reply 10, posted (5 years 8 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2581 times:
Good news for FL, although I'm sure it will draw quite a bit of ire from NW and an increase in frequencies with a price match.
...a little too much of that, and watch NW take it (all) from there.
Would contend that it's only a matter of time until MEM gets down to about 30 destinations and 150 daily departures. I hear STL, RDU, BNA, and PIT have a support group for such.
N908AW From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 848 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (5 years 8 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2552 times:
Quoting Mikey711MN (Thread starter):
Hmmm...TPA to both MSP and DTW?!? Surely that will garner some sort of response!
*dramatic chord* The plot thickens!
I was hoping for that...it's probably even easier for FL to do since SY is over at PIE...only *direct* competition comes from NW. What's interesting is how little presence NW has in TPA...when I was there seemed their only aircraft were DC-9s and A319s while everybody else had 757s!
'Cause you're on ATA again, and on ATA, you're on vacation!
CitrusCritter From Palau, joined May 2007, 1072 posts, RR: 3 Reply 13, posted (5 years 8 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2498 times:
Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 11): ...a little too much of that, and watch NW take it (all) from there.
You know, I wish. If FL really wanted to stick it to NW, they could do it in MEM. NW keeps MEM around so they have a hub not up north. But if FL went in 100% determined (which they don't do of course, but for argument's sake), they could push NW out. MEM underperforms O&D for NW, and FL could stimulate a low-fare market. MEM is poorer than many cities its size, which is one reason it underperforms, so if FL went in with low fares, I think there is market stimulation to be had.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21242 posts, RR: 19 Reply 14, posted (5 years 8 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2491 times:
Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 13): so if FL went in with low fares, I think there is market stimulation to be had.
Is it really worth it for them, though? NW would fight like crazy, and NW will win a fare war between the two any time.
And does FL really want to push legacies around with low fares? Arguably, they have a product that COULD exact a fare premium from passengers. They need to figure out if they want to be in the F9/B6 crowd or the SX/NK crowd. IMO you can't simultaneously be in both camps.
[Edited 2007-09-20 16:50:05]
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
PSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 6872 posts, RR: 29 Reply 15, posted (5 years 8 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2483 times:
NW typically doesn't care too much when someone enters a low yield, leisure market. Their response is to simply price match. Considering NW significantly more capacity than FL as it is now anways.
Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 11): Would contend that it's only a matter of time until MEM gets down to about 30 destinations and 150 daily departures.
NW is not scaling back in MEM. It will be primarily status-quo, with some realignment of capacity when the CR9's & E75's make their way to MEM to right-size some CRJ-200 & DC-9 routes.
Quoting N908AW (Reply 12): What's interesting is how little presence NW has in TPA...when I was there seemed their only aircraft were DC-9s and A319s while everybody else had 757s!
NW ramps up seasonally in TPA, along with RSW. During the summer is mostly DC-9's & A319/A320.
During the winter, NW adds several additional frequencies on DTW / MSP and bumps many up to 757's.
Well I think that is a legitimate question, and I'd argue there in the WN crowd -- in the middle. The question on MEM is whether it is worth it for NW to defend MEM to the last. It's not MSP. MEM is a place where low-cost stimulation can be had and NW is not as strong because of the weak O&D. FL could carve out its own market while taking some of NW's. And it would probably lead to a NW drawdown because MEM barely survives as it is.
B752OS From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1322 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (5 years 8 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2417 times:
Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 7): I don't think NW will be too concerned about competition on low-yield Florida leisure routes that already have substancial competition. Fares are already reasonable on these routes to begin with, but of course anyone with an airline can fill a route to Florida from the north during the winter.
How do you figure there is substantial competition on MSP-TPA? MSP is a one airline dominated airport. If you were to say there is substantial competition on LGA-TPA, then I would agree.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21242 posts, RR: 19 Reply 18, posted (5 years 8 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2341 times:
Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 16): FL could carve out its own market while taking some of NW's. And it would probably lead to a NW drawdown because MEM barely survives as it is.
I think that in the long run, FL could succeed at MEM (as I stated above, I don't think they have the fortitude or the money to fight NW off, but that's another story for another day). I am unsure, however, whether NW would really draw MEM down as much as you think. There are two things to keep in mind.
1) NW is great at flying big planes to small places. We talk about this all the time at airports like MBS or FAR, but 250 daily seats to BTR (for all of 23 daily passengers)? At all three hubs, NW makes money connecting passengers from small airports, and based on the number of seats the pour into these markets, I think we'd be completely justified in concluding that these passengers are more important to NW than to other legacies. FL isn't going to do anything to this traffic.
2) We periodically talk about yields being bad at MEM (they are compared to the other two hubs) but this is partially by design, as NW will route lower-yielding connecting passengers over its hub with the weakest local traffic. That purpose will be there regardless of what FL does, and given the gate situation at MEM, it probably won't be much.
MEM seems like another MDW to me. FL tried to go after the business fliers at MDW, and they failed (because of two entrenched legacies up the road). While they can (and I think will) certainly make inroads at MEM, I wonder if they'll ever get to the critical mass necessary to be a serious player for business traffic.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
PSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 6872 posts, RR: 29 Reply 19, posted (5 years 8 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2276 times:
Quoting B752OS (Reply 17): How do you figure there is substantial competition on MSP-TPA? MSP is a one airline dominated airport. If you were to say there is substantial competition on LGA-TPA, then I would agree.
Currently 2 airlines flying nonstop to Tampa NW-TPA, SX-PIE.
Over 12 airlines offer 1-stop connecting service, all with prices between $230-$250 r/t. There are no less than at least 30 viable 1-stop options on MSP-TPA
NW offers the lowest cost (although maybe by only as little as $1) in many instances - and nonstop too. Currently NW is cheaper than FL through MDW.
FL offering 1 seasonal flight is going to minimal impact on anything. FL is doing what it does best here - Florida.
Since it is a price sensitive market, the leisure travelers don't necessarily mind a connection to save a few bucks, hence why NW already prices this route competitively. FL isn't going to come in an offer $29 one-way fares, sorry.
MSP is not strangled by high fares on the majority of busy routes, unlike what everyone on A.net likes to believe. There is competition on many routes too as much of the routes have at least one other airline offering some form of nonstop service and pretty much everyone offers connections.
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 18): MEM seems like another MDW to me. FL tried to go after the business fliers at MDW, and they failed (because of two entrenched legacies up the road). While they can (and I think will) certainly make inroads at MEM, I wonder if they'll ever get to the critical mass necessary to be a serious player for business traffic.
I agree with you Cubsrule. There is such a small pot of business travelers to begin with in MEM, and there is no way that FL could offer enough choices to make them a viable option. One-off routes business routes have not proven to be successful for FL. LCC's could siphon off leisure traffic at MEM, but the market is too small for anyone to make inroads and not get trashed by NW in the process.
727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5722 posts, RR: 20 Reply 22, posted (5 years 8 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2086 times:
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 4): Leave it to AirTran to make a big deal about routes that, with the exception of TPA-MSP, aren't new at all.
Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 9): airTran has not flown PITTPA nonstop before
And as far as I know, they haven't served TPA-BOS either.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31118 posts, RR: 73 Reply 23, posted (5 years 8 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2071 times:
Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 22): Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 9):
airTran has not flown PITTPA nonstop before
And as far as I know, they haven't served TPA-BOS either.
I'm pretty sure they flew TPA-BOS last year, but not positive. Also, I recall TPA-PIT being booked and loaded into timetables last winter or the winter before, and it never started. I stand corrected if I'm wrong on either.
I'm surprised that NW doesn't slip in a 753 or something larger on the MSP and DTW runs.
72S 733 734 735 73G 738 742 752 763 E190 M82 M83
25 ConcordeBoy: ....would they though? I'm not talking about a methodical scale-down, I'm talking total abandonment as a hub-- be it as a result of financial realign
26 TVNWZ: Wow. I fly through there a lot. Planes are always full and the prices are not low. I find in more expensive to connect on NW through MEM than DTW or
27 PSU.DTW.SCE: Nothing unique to MSP, there are hundreds of markets where this is the case. Even with AA now on MSP-LGA, last minute fares aren't going to magically
28 ConcordeBoy: I'm not talking about a calculated scaleback, I'm talking about complete abandonment as a hub. While MEM is certainly in a unique position (super-low
29 ATLAaron: That was before . . . I think things have changed since FL tried some of the other PIT routes. However, I don't think Saturday only service to TPA is
30 CitrusCritter: I am surprised that with their propensity for seasonal vacation routes, that FL does not open seasonal stations at VPS and PFN. VPS especially is boom
31 Steeler83: You can say that again... Things have changed... like a 50+% reduction in traffic thanks to US pulling their hub... They had flights to PHL, LGA, and
32 Cubsrule: There's a key difference between those hubs and MEM, though. If you subtract MEM from NW, you lose much more of the network than subtracting PIT from
33 FlyPNS1: While FL does like seasonal routes, they usually prefer the market to be able to sustain some flights year round....hence why MYR got dumped in favor
34 TOLtommy: I sure hope so, FL service is a good alternative in DTW. You've got the low end nickle and dime on NK, and the "passenger processing" of NW. Besides,
35 Steeler83: I don't WN will grow PIT into a major WN city (40 flights tops), and B6 I think will remain with just JFK and BOS. US just gets smaller and smaller a
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Will FL operate TPA-MSP using the 717, 737, or both?
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From Palau, joined May 2007, 1072 posts, 
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