Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
CMH Courting NW For AMS Flight  
User currently offlineDeltaRules From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3772 posts, RR: 9
Posted (7 years 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5113 times:

While we've talked about CMH-Europe before in previous threads, this post actually has an article to back it up.

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content..._09-20-07_C10_147V56N.html?sid=101

So CMH is going after NW hoping to land one of up to three new European flights, pitching that there are over 300 passengers a day that travel from the US to Europe, Africa, India & the Middle East. Would NW do this with DTW so close and CVG just down the road with seasonal AMS flights on a 767?

And then there's PIT, who IIRC, also wants an NW AMS flight within a stone's throw.


Let's Kick the Tires & Light the Fires!!
52 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6771 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5081 times:

Let me get this straight...

Columbus is looking for AMS service.. with 28 daily pax a day? Even with connecting opportunities.. I think I know what NWA will say? She-dog PLEASE!!!

That's crazy.. the only way I would even think of offering the service was if CMH was offering subsidies (not incentives) that would basically pay the cost of the flight. Oh.. me.. Lord.. that's crazy..

And the other stats..

CMH-LON = 99 daily pax
CMH-FRA = 42 daily pax
CMH-Paris = 33 daily pax

and they are going after AMS which only has 28? OMG.. OMG.. that is soooooooo.. just SO!

Good luck to them.. if they get it, then they must really be able to Woo the heck out of Northwest!!!!

Wonder what PITs numbers look like.. Are they at LEAST over 200 to make a 757 seem worthwhile?



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineKL911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5141 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5082 times:

If it's only a three hour drive to the nearest airport I wouldn't do it. And if it's more I would feed into DTW. How many destinations can you connect to on NW after landing at CMH?

KL911


User currently offlineKL911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5141 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5065 times:

Quoting KL911 (Reply 2):
CMH-LON = 99 daily pax
CMH-FRA = 42 daily pax
CMH-Paris = 33 daily pax

and they are going after AMS which only has 28? OMG.. OMG.. that is soooooooo.. just SO!

Well, since AMS is their NW/KL hub connecting to all major cities on the globe... It's logical. LON would be only O&D NW can't connect to anyone, just the KLM flights to AMS.

CDG is not favourable as well, since AF and NW have no ATI between them.

KL911


User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6771 posts, RR: 17
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5065 times:

Quoting KL911 (Reply 2):
How many destinations can you connect to on NW after landing at CMH?

From CHM.. one can transfer anywhere NW, DL, and CO flies nonstop.. so I don't think that is a problem since CMH is a DL focus city.. but what I do think is crazy is that there is such a small O&D base.. I hope there is some significant corporate sponsorship and subsidies for this.. I mean.. CMH better come STRONG!!!! And I don't mean using Skybus destinations either..



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineFlyCMH From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 2282 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5045 times:

Quoting DeltaRules (Thread starter):
pitching that there are over 300 passengers a day that travel from the US to Europe, Africa, India & the Middle East.

Over 300 passengers a day? That does seem like a pretty high number. There is a significant population that travels between Columbus and the aforementioned areas around the globe, but I wonder how much of that NWA would expect to capture, especially the high yield travelers that would actually make the route work. It could be doable; the airport would practically hand NWA gobs of money if they decide to go through with it. Skyteam partners Delta and Continental could route some passengers through CMH, similar to BDL. It could also serve as a backup if DTW gets socked in by weather. Hopefully this is an indication that Northwest's BDL-AMS route is doing well, and the airline believes that bringing the concept to other mid-tier cities in the U.S. is worth persuing.


User currently offlineCLE757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5040 times:

CO want to start CLE-AMS in the next few years, so CMH pax will have an easy connect up to CLE.


Cleveland the best location in the Nation
User currently offlineBlueElephant From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 1813 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4995 times:

I really think that CMH could support a flight to an International Hub. LON...not so much...but AMS, definately. FRA is a possibility too.

I think however FRA would be better served through PIT because of Bayer....

Would be very cool if it happened!...but I don't think NW would fly this route.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23022 posts, RR: 20
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4944 times:

CMH-AMS is kind of pushing it for a 752. It's longer than CO's longest route (EWR-TXL), and while it's shorter than both DTW-DUS and DTW-FRA, we haven't yet seen what NW 752s can actually do in the winter. Frequent fuel stops can kill already marginal flights. So we shall see. (FWIW, PIT-AMS would likely do much better).


I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineSeeTheWorld From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1325 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4945 times:

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 7):
I really think that CMH could support a flight to an International Hub. LON...not so much...but AMS, definately. FRA is a possibility too.

I think however FRA would be better served through PIT because of Bayer....

Would be very cool if it happened!...but I don't think NW would fly this route.

The real question to ask is would CMH-AMS be the next best option for NW from the U.S. Likely, it is not, and I doubt Columbus could come up with enough LONG-TERM money to change that.


User currently offlineFlyCMH From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 2282 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4899 times:

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 9):
The real question to ask is would CMH-AMS be the next best option for NW from the U.S. Likely, it is not, and I doubt Columbus could come up with enough LONG-TERM money to change that.

Next best, no. Among the next best, maybe. If Northwest is indeed planning on serving 3 more mid-sized cities nonstop from AMS, I would definitely think Indianapolis would be the forerunner. After that, there are quite a few contenders. The strengths CMH has going for it is that it remains a Northwest-operated station, at least for now, and it has historically done well for NW, though mostly due to the Asian traffic out of CMH. Their upcoming November schedule is less than promising, however, with only 4 mainline jets a day.


User currently offlineNWAESC From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3389 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4859 times:

Quoting FlyCMH (Reply 5):
Hopefully this is an indication that Northwest's BDL-AMS route is doing well, and the airline believes that bringing the concept to other mid-tier cities in the U.S. is worth persuing.

Load-wise, it's doing pretty good....How that translates into yield, I have no idea...

I would think that IND, PIT, and PHL (in that order) would be the next logical routes. Yes, I know PHL-AMS has been run before, but I think a '57 is better suited to it than the DC10 was.

Quoting FlyCMH (Reply 10):
Their upcoming November schedule is less than promising, however, with only 4 mainline jets a day.

That's too bad...Hopefully, the Dec 18th change sees more M/L back into CMH.



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineChase From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1054 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4821 times:

Quoting FlyCMH (Reply 10):
I would definitely think Indianapolis would be the forerunner

I concur (though am a little biased since that's my home airport). Although probably not until the new terminal opens in...what, 14 months?


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21637 posts, RR: 55
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4794 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 8):
CMH-AMS is kind of pushing it for a 752.

My thoughts as well (and Indy is even more pushing it). You're sure as hell not going to put a 330 on AMS-CMH.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineSeptember11 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3623 posts, RR: 21
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4779 times:

NW CMH-AMS would be nice. I wish best of luck to the City of Columbus, a fast growing city.


Airliners.net of the Future
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7546 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4756 times:

Quoting CLE757 (Reply 6):
CO want to start CLE-AMS in the next few years, so CMH pax will have an easy connect up to CLE.

Even easier to DTW with more flights between DTW-CMH and 5 daily DTW-AMS flights.

Quoting Chase (Reply 12):
I concur (though am a little biased since that's my home airport). Although probably not until the new terminal opens in...what, 14 months?

Exactly IND's current intl terminal is a joke, no jetways, it basically looks like a converted cargo building.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4746 times:

It would give them a 1 stop connection to every major city over the ocean.

So what can Columbus do $$ wise in return for a daily connection to a (very good) European hub?


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7591 posts, RR: 27
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4598 times:

PIT also approached NW earlier in the year launching service to AMS.

There was no word on how the discussions went.
All that was really known is that NW was asking for a enormous amount of incentives to make a risky (for NW) to proceed


NW is looking to launch 3 new Trans-Atlantic 757 routes next summer. 2 of them are likely to be from DTW, the other 1 likely a non-hub city to AMS.

The non-hub routes that have been thrown around include:
PHL-AMS or BWI-AMS - NW/KLM prompted
CMH-AMS - Airport Administration prompted
PIT-AMS - Airport Administration prompted


User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4523 times:

Well midsized cities are looking at BDL and wanting in some of the action. There are a large number of cities that probably could support NW service in the summer on 757s to AMS...problem is winter. I wouldnt invest anything in serving these cities UNLESS they could turn an annual profit. Jan/Feb might lose money, but July/Aug better more than offset those losses

Also cities like CHM, IND, etc should pony up some cash for these flights, like $1m plus. Such as a Rev guarantee, travel bank plus cost defferments of taxes and fees.

As for the 28 PDEWS for CHM-AMS, that would grow to more like 60 but the fare would probably come down


User currently offlineLambertMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2077 posts, RR: 35
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4425 times:

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 18):

Also cities like CHM, IND, etc should pony up some cash for these flights, like $1m plus. Such as a Rev guarantee, travel bank plus cost defferments of taxes and fees.

Indianapolis would be stretching it for a 752. At the very least there would be some serious payload restrictions, which I'm assuming wouldn't come into play that often considering the plane would be almost empty.

If you're going to throw 1 million dollars around, do it to entice local service that will have a long lasting effect. For example, NW to Seattle/San Diego (which could and should stick long term). That would be an idea. Giving them $1M to start a flight that is shot before it starts is a bad idea.


User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3080 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4328 times:

i bet if pit gets nwa ams service us airways will bring it back


E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlineBlueElephant From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 1813 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4325 times:

Quoting NWAESC (Reply 11):
Yes, I know PHL-AMS has been run before, but I think a '57 is better suited to it than the DC10 was.

Although NW doesn't fly this route, US does, and with US having a huge amount of connectivity through US Connections as well as United Codeshares, it is likely that NW wouldn't make as much out of PHL.

BWI though I could see as a possibility.

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 9):

The real question to ask is would CMH-AMS be the next best option for NW from the U.S. Likely, it is not, and I doubt Columbus could come up with enough LONG-TERM money to change that.

The Next best option....probably not as FLYCMH has already stated...But it's up there and I think Northwest could make it work. But could a 757 do it without a Fuel stop year around...I don't rightly think so.


User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4674 posts, RR: 11
Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4306 times:

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 18):
Well midsized cities are looking at BDL and wanting in some of the action

Any updates how BDL is doing? The July #'s were marginal, but its tough to tell because July is # 1 month for transatlantic flights, but it was the first month for the flight. BDL seems to be able to support it ok in the summer, but im doubting the flight profitability in the off season unless they really fill the front of the plane.



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7546 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4194 times:

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 20):
i bet if pit gets nwa ams service us airways will bring it back

And get owned on it again.

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 21):
Although NW doesn't fly this route, US does, and with US having a huge amount of connectivity through US Connections as well as United Codeshares, it is likely that NW wouldn't make as much out of PHL.

But on the other side NW has a ton of connecting opportunities through AMS.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineNWAESC From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3389 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4146 times:

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 22):
Any updates how BDL is doing?

Loads on it seem decent, but as mentioned before, I have no idea on how that translates yield-wise....

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 17):
BWI-AMS - NW/KLM prompted

Interesting...I wonder if this would be more of a better bet than bringing back IAD-AMS would be?



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
25 PSU.DTW.SCE : KLM operates IAD-AMS, which is essentially the same as NWA. NW had operated IAD-AMS in the past, prior to when the rationalized their Trans-Atlantic
26 Indy : DTW-FRA is 4161 miles. IND-AMS is 4171 miles. I doubt 10 miles is going to make a difference. Also the commerce department says otherwise on the plan
27 LambertMan : Given the affluence of the area, you would have to think that the yields are something they were counting on to make BDL-AMS a winner. I'm sure they
28 Indy : It also doesn't make sense to shuttle a plane full of people to go to AMS when they could just go direct and save the double handling of passengers. I
29 JetJock22 : Are you refering to Indy or CMH? If you are refering to CMH, it's gonna be more like 14 years before our new terminal opens.
30 B752OS : That would make little sense. I think the premise of getting NW to start CMH-AMS was to allow pax to connect throughout Europe and the Middle East. B
31 PSU.DTW.SCE : Agreed on the PHL side of things regarding US, however the consideration is if there are enough Skyteam (KLM) loyal, European based passengers that tr
32 Cubsrule : DTW-FRA was also summer-only... We have no idea how that route would have done in the winter. While NW billed it as a seasonal addition of capacity (
33 BlueElephant : I agree with that...but think about it this way. If NW is choosing to fly from PHL to AMS...then they're probably looking at the local catchment area
34 Indy : I'm 99% sure he is talking about IND. The new terminal opens in Nov 2008. I just had the feeling CMH was further along in the planning phase. Are the
35 MasseyBrown : Every important medical R&D lab has foreign collaborators and this is encouraged by the federal grant machinery. A foreign collaboration is considere
36 B752OS : They have a great network. I know a lot of Indian people here in Boston that use LH for their bi-yearly trips home. I doubt NW would have much succes
37 Post contains links Indy : How common or uncommon is it for an airport authority to petition the DOT on behalf of a carrier like what IND has done for NW/KL? http://dmses.dot.go
38 MasseyBrown : Extremely common. The "civic parties", as the DOT calls them, almost always support any application for air service in their own communities. Local H
39 Indy : There is no transatlantic service out of IND so that wouldn't really apply would it? This petition is specific to transatlantic service.
40 Cubsrule : No, KL's advertising in Europe is Memphis-specific.
41 Post contains images MasseyBrown : Given open skies, specific city pairs don't matter in this case. IND is trying to curry favor with NW by supporting them in hopes of a little payback
42 Indy : Sucking up? lol. I figured a government run organization would have to be impartial but maybe I'm just way off in that thinking.
43 LGAtoIND : It would seem odd for CMH to get AMS service before IND, with IND being a NW focus city, and I believe, a bigger O&D than CMH.
44 YHZ : Don't forget PHL has had NW service to AMS in the past. The aircraft was pulled either for an additional DTW AMS or it might have been for MXP or FCO.
45 Post contains images MasseyBrown : In a word, yes. But it's in the airport's interest as well; a "what's good for NW is good for IND" kind of thing .
46 Indy : Thats true. NW was #1 last year with around 25% of the market. They handled something like 2 million passengers. I haven't seen stats for this year s
47 Post contains images CitrusCritter : I'm sure there are Europeans that like barbeque and the blues...not to mention Graceland. Memphis is a great city...but yeah, the high-yield O&D...th
48 Post contains images 44k : The prospect of an international flight at CMH is surely an exciting one. I just wonder if the airport is up to par to handle it? Surely, CMH termina
49 USFlyer MSP : KLM actually flew AMS-BWI for a few years in the early 90's. The launched it at the same time that they launched AMS-MSP.
50 BlueElephant : Don't they already have a weekly USA3000 flight to CUN?....Columbus Customs Agents are based in LCK and come to CMH on a flight by flight basis. But
51 KL577 : Because at that time (pre open-skies era) KLM was denied landing rights at IAD. Immediately after the US-Netherlands open skies agreement, BWI was su
52 DeltaRules : I think the "International gates" are in the C46 area, the DL gates prior to C being expanded. The exit to customs is in that baggage claim area. USA
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
NW BDL-AMS Meals / No Flight Kitchen In BDL? posted Mon Apr 9 2007 15:04:25 by NWBOS
NW Cabin Lights Off For Whole Flight? posted Sun Jul 7 2002 22:50:46 by Airlinelover
Experimental Glass Jetbridge For AMS posted Sun Aug 12 2007 22:14:47 by Paneuropean
NW BDL-AMS Inaugural posted Wed Jun 27 2007 14:47:11 by Boeing757/767
Attn: BRU Spotters, NW 1st BRU Flight On Its Way! posted Sat Jun 16 2007 06:44:50 by Burnsie28
Question For ASA Flight Attendants posted Sun May 20 2007 21:26:11 by Flyboy80
Load Factor For Continental Flight Please! posted Mon May 14 2007 14:53:22 by Ryanrap1
Need CO Registration For Yesterday Flight... posted Thu May 3 2007 17:48:12 by AA737-823
The Caravelle Ever Used For Transatlantic Flight? posted Sat Feb 17 2007 14:42:49 by LuvAir
No New J-Pier For AMS posted Sat Jan 20 2007 19:20:05 by McSteve
NW BDL-AMS Meals / No Flight Kitchen In BDL? posted Mon Apr 9 2007 15:04:25 by NWBOS
NW Cabin Lights Off For Whole Flight? posted Sun Jul 7 2002 22:50:46 by Airlinelover
Ruling For Next Flight After Cancellation posted Wed Aug 29 2012 16:58:08 by shufflemoomin
Data Sources For Airline Flight Schedules posted Mon Apr 23 2012 08:23:15 by BizJet
Emirates Announces A380 For AMS posted Wed Feb 15 2012 03:01:20 by luxair
Request For SIA Flight Attendant posted Mon Jan 9 2012 03:34:02 by thecakeisalie
BA Adds LHR-BLQ Plus Additional AMS Flight posted Thu Nov 10 2011 18:13:07 by VV701