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Why Does DL Switch Between Mainline And Connection  
User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3051 posts, RR: 2
Posted (6 years 11 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3103 times:

DL always seems to switch mainline and connection at Select cities. For example, ALB had 1 daily flight on a 73g then they switched to connection. Then, they brought back 2 daily mainline flights on a 737-200. The 737-200 were retired and then switched again to connection. Then again, they brought back a daily mad dog. Now currently ALB has no DL mainline. They were supposed to bring back service this fall, but that isn't happening. I checked the schedule from this August and even in Aug. ALB will still have no mainline. When will DL bring mainline back to ALB?


E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePilotboi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2366 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (6 years 11 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3088 times:

Only thing I can think of is demand. As most cities have peak travel periods and low travel periods. Schedules are adjusted accordingly and the Connection planes are usually smaller so they are used for the low periods.

User currently offlineJBo From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 2316 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 11 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3055 times:

Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 1):
Only thing I can think of is demand. As most cities have peak travel periods and low travel periods. Schedules are adjusted accordingly and the Connection planes are usually smaller so they are used for the low periods.

Pilotboi nails it on the head ... an airline isn't going to send a mainline aircraft to a city if there isn't enough demand to make money on the flight.

A smaller aircraft requires less demand to make money ... it's a much better alternative to either losing money on the route or closing it altogether.



I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5400 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (6 years 11 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3049 times:

Another example for you: SAN has seen a mix of mainline and Connection/Express flights for a few years now. This fall, they have returned to all mainline (well, except a couple of weaker days of the week on 2 flights) -- 5 flights on 738s and M90s. (In this case, it could be a competitive thing with B6 starting SAN-SLC a month or so ago.)

bb


User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3051 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (6 years 11 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3030 times:

its weird though every time mainline comes back, its full


E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4049 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (6 years 11 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3024 times:

Quoting JBo (Reply 2):
Pilotboi nails it on the head ... an airline isn't going to send a mainline aircraft to a city if there isn't enough demand to make money on the flight.

In the instance of DL, they have a shortage of mainline aircraft, so they have to VERY carefully evaluate the needs of mainline MDD/738/752 vs. CRJs. Right now I'm sure it's like pulling teeth without anaesthesia at DL headquarters at ATL.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 3):
Another example for you: SAN has seen a mix of mainline and Connection/Express flights for a few years now. This fall, they have returned to all mainline (well, except a couple of weaker days of the week on 2 flights) -- 5 flights on 738s and M90s. (In this case, it could be a competitive thing with B6 starting SAN-SLC a month or so ago.)

 checkmark  DL has worked hard to maintain frequency and available seats between SAN-SLC. They've managed to keep WN out of the mix, but B6 has come swooping in to make this a competitive route.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineDelta767 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 238 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 11 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2994 times:

As USAirALB mentions when mainline does return to certain cities like ALB it's full...dont the load factprs rise and fall according to the number of seats offered hence the number of lower fares that can be offered. I dont understand how DL can move a mainline aircraft away from a city like ALB where there is significantly less competition and send it to a city like DCA or ORD (for example) where there is more competition and they will have to lower fares. In the end, they could have charged a bit more at ALB, made more money, and become the "market leader" with larger aircraft.

It's like the chicken and the egg scenario!


User currently offlineKstateinALB From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 749 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 11 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2872 times:

I'll just say, and absolutely Delta 767 hit it out of the park. Not having any competition is most likely the reason why. Yes, mainline flights are going out full. Yes, it sucks for us not being able to take mainline to ATL. However, if and when FL decides to come in is when DL will bring back mainline. I don't believe thats even a question as to when if FL came in.


ALB, DTW, ORD, MDW, MCI, JFK, LGA, LHR, MAD, MSP, IAD, DCA, MCO, ATL, CVG, TUL, MHK, PHL, PIT, DFW, DAL, CLT, IND, AUS,
User currently offlinePilotboi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2366 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (6 years 11 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2851 times:

Quoting Delta767 (Reply 6):
dont the load factprs rise and fall according to the number of seats offered

Not really - It's not as much supply and demand as it is demand and supply.

If it were like you said, then that means if an airline wants to make more money via a certain city, they just up the number of flights to that city. While this does make sense, it only works up to a certain point. Once you start offering more seats then are actually sold, it's just silly to add more flights, as this won't generally attract more people.


User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3288 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (6 years 11 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2822 times:

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 4):
its weird though every time mainline comes back, its full

You appear to be fairly new here, so I'll give you the standard reply to your statement....

"Full doesn't always equal profitable"

If low yielding fares are needed to fill seats, that mainline aircraft will be moved to a more profitable market.


User currently offlineFloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2010 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 11 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2796 times:

Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 1):
Only thing I can think of is demand. As most cities have peak travel periods and low travel periods. Schedules are adjusted accordingly and the Connection planes are usually smaller so they are used for the low periods.

Bullseye! For example, in BIL, they usually run 4-6 CRJ, and 2-3 CR7 to SLC during the peak season (Mid-May thru Mid-August), while during the slower winter season, it usually stabilizes at about 5-5 CRJ. At one point, they even had Daily CR7 on Comair to Cincinnati during the peak summer season, and nothing during the low winter. However, that didn't return after the CVG downsize. Good route at the time, though.



Good goes around!
User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (6 years 11 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2770 times:

So that explains why Richmond has gotten 3x daily 757's ever since FL and B6 came in...


The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlineDelta767 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 238 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 11 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2549 times:

Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 8):

I guess it depends on whether the city is close enough to other DL cities where pax will make the decision to drive to neighboring cities based on price. For example, GSO and RDU and CLT. GSO pax drive to RDU and CLT to take DL flights at lower fares, but they would stay at GSO if the fares were lower. When they were lower over the past couple of years, pax filled 5-7 mainline aircraft a day, now they pack in to 1-2 mainline per day and 7 RJs. Not trying to change the subject of this thread, but simply to give an example where sometimes supply does lead to demand. GSO pax are providing the demand, but the supply is consistently being diminished by DL.


User currently offlineGsoflyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 1093 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (6 years 11 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2384 times:

Quoting Delta767 (Reply 12):
I guess it depends on whether the city is close enough to other DL cities where pax will make the decision to drive to neighboring cities based on price. For example, gso and RDU and CLT. gso pax drive to RDU and CLT to take DL flights at lower fares, but they would stay at gso if the fares were lower. When they were lower over the past couple of years, pax filled 5-7 mainline aircraft a day, now they pack in to 1-2 mainline per day and 7 RJs. Not trying to change the subject of this thread, but simply to give an example where sometimes supply does lead to demand. gso pax are providing the demand, but the supply is consistently being diminished by DL.

You can drive demand elsewhere by numbers (ie making people drive to other cities) while driving up costs locally to reap the benefits of gouging businesses for the service.


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