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Is This True About BA?  
User currently offlineB752fanatic From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 918 posts, RR: 8
Posted (6 years 10 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 10088 times:

Some friends have said to me that BA will outsource their staff at US airports?

Is this true? Apparently swissport will take over, I just can't believe it. Anyone knows?


"Truth is more of a stranger than fiction." Mark Twain
29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTrekster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (6 years 10 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 10045 times:

I hope this is just hte rumour mill playing.

BA staff in the US do alot of good. Even win awards for there customer service.
Its turned BA in the regions into a joke for passenger handling since Aviance took over, which has widley been reported over at Flyertalk


User currently offlineB752fanatic From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 918 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (6 years 10 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 9997 times:

Someone who works for AF in JFK told me this. But it would not surprise me, it will cut costs. That's every firms goal.


"Truth is more of a stranger than fiction." Mark Twain
User currently offlineVikingA346 From Sweden, joined Oct 2006, 515 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 10 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 9874 times:

This couldn't be farther from the truth. If they were making such a drastic move like that, they would let their employees know before anybody else. I can tell you that the person that works for AF is completely wrong and I'd like to know where they heard that rumour.

VIkingA346



...you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you shall return
User currently offlineB752fanatic From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 918 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (6 years 10 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 9855 times:

Well, the person that works for AF in JFK said that those employees from BA will go on to work with swissport directly with BA, meaning that they won't lose their job, just that they will, in lieu of working directly for BA they will be working for a sub contractor, in this case Swissport.


"Truth is more of a stranger than fiction." Mark Twain
User currently offlineTrekster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 10 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 9503 times:

Then why are we not hearing this from BA staff that work in the US. I myself work for BA have have seen nothing about it on the local US intranet pages.

Why on earth would someone from another company know before staff IN the company!


User currently offlineUPPERDECKFAN From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 992 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (6 years 10 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 9414 times:

Quoting B752fanatic (Reply 4):
Well, the person that works for AF in JFK said that those employees from BA will go on to work with swissport directly with BA, meaning that they won't lose their job, just that they will, in lieu of working directly for BA they will be working for a sub contractor, in this case Swissport.

Same thing happened to BA staff in Spain earlier this year, I remember them complaining about loosing some pluses with the employer change.



744,742,741,772,773,762,732,735,738,752,727,717,DC10,DC9,M82,M87,319,320,321,343,346,L1011,CRJ2,CRJ9,E190,ATR42,DSH8,
User currently offlineSketty222 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 1776 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (6 years 10 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 9367 times:

lets hope that this doesnt go ahead. BA changed their staff in the the UK regional airports from BA staff to Swissport staff. Since this happened back in May IIRC, I have had a lot of negative feedback from passengers about the ticket/check-in desk staff's attitude towards them.

Ive only experienced BA staff in 3 airports in the US but they have all been so kind and done as much as they can for our customers. Fingers crossed for my colleagues over there

Lee



There's flying and then there's flying
User currently offlineBramble From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 10 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 9335 times:

Quoting Trekster (Reply 5):
Why on earth would someone from another company know before staff IN the company!

Try working for Aer Lingus. We get info from the newspapers rather than internal communications


User currently offlineBCAL From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 3384 posts, RR: 16
Reply 9, posted (6 years 10 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 9320 times:

It would be a shame if the rumours are true, particularly for the staff involved, but it is a sign of the times that most companies are outsourcing to trim costs. Sometimes it might be acceptable but when you have a great brand like BA it could do more harm than good, as people associate BA with British "snobbiness" and when the staff are not under BA's control, standards just are not the same.

For a Brit abroad being greeted at a foreign airport by a British-trained employee feels like you have already come home when you see a female member who is an epitome for an English Rose or a male member who is either the epitome of a Butler or a Queen wearing blazers with his hands on his hips. Replace them with [insert outsourced company of your choice] and your first thought might be the airline is cutting costs, but are fares being reduced proportionately?

I think BA has outsourced their staff at FCO as the BA staff now have the annoying Italian habit of using "whatever" as an excuse for everything!



MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
User currently offlineINNflight From Austria, joined Apr 2004, 3765 posts, RR: 60
Reply 10, posted (6 years 10 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 9263 times:

Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 6):
Same thing happened to BA staff in Spain earlier this year, I remember them complaining about loosing some pluses with the employer change.

I could see that..... non-rev travel might be one right? Unless Servisair has planes now of course  Wink



Jet Visuals
User currently offlineEdina From United Kingdom, joined exactly 11 years ago today! , 742 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (6 years 10 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 9012 times:

Quoting Sketty222 (Reply 7):
BA changed their staff in the the UK regional airports from BA staff to Swissport staff. Since this happened back in May IIRC

GLA/ABZ/MAN/EDI all cut over to Aviance handling staff....I think it's just NCL that is Swissport, however NCL has never been in house handling. GLA Aviance staff are OK after a few teething problems, but still lack the flexibility & initiative that the BA GLA staff had.

CDG also went to GlobeGround about a year ago.



Worked on - Caravelle Mercure A300 A320 F27 SD3-60 BAe146 747-100/200/400 DC10-30 767 777 737-400 757 A319 A321
User currently offlineB752fanatic From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 918 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (6 years 10 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 8929 times:

Quoting Trekster (Reply 5):
Then why are we not hearing this from BA staff that work in the US. I myself work for BA have have seen nothing about it on the local US intranet pages.

Why on earth would someone from another company know before staff IN the company!

I am sure that the management staff will still be BA, however the others will just go on to work with swissport.

I am hoping all of this is just a case of ill rumor.



"Truth is more of a stranger than fiction." Mark Twain
User currently offlineAPYu From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2007, 830 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 10 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 8816 times:

I disagree with the comment about the UK outsourced provider staff having less flexibility or initiative as Ive found them to be mostly the same people just in a different uniform and its probably the retrictions of their employer effecting changed behaviours. A few of them were a bit hacked off I think about change in employer and will almost surely enjoy different benefits with their new employer, but I as a frequent traveller BA have noticed a marked positive improvement in the change, particularly around aircraft dispatch. As an outsourced provider the UK ground handlers now seem in more of an effort to get the plane turned around on time as I guess their payments and bonuses from BA are likely to reward that. Gone are the days when the dispatcher will stand chatting idly to cabin crew during the turnaround about their last Barbados trip and the dispatcher is now more likely to give the crews a quick nudge to be quick, and be particularly good about reminding them how long their breaks are supposed to be.

I do hope the rumours are not true for the US Handlers but it should be noted that BA FA training very much pushes the fact that BA Crew are THE face of the airline. A neighbour of mine just completed his training, and they were told that in a few years time Cabin Crew are likely to be the first BA staff customers come into contact with and hence the importance of their image and standards of customer service. If this is being mooted in FA training then further outsourcing of ground handling should, unfortunately be expected at some point in the future, but lets hope this isnt too soon.



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User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11407 posts, RR: 62
Reply 14, posted (6 years 10 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 8643 times:

Long-term, if AA and BA are able to get full ATI, which I see as eventually inevitable, I don't think it is out of the realm of possibility for them to shift U.S. operations handling (at least below-wing) in many of their smaller U.S. stations to AA, a la KL-NW. No doubt, BA will probably always want to have complete control in really important, high-visibility, high-volume stations like JFK, IAD, ORD, LAX, MIA, etc, but in smaller stations (I'm thinking definitely DFW, plus cities like DEN, SFO, SEA, MCO, PHL, etc.), it very well might make sense - eventually - for AA and BA to combine some operations functions.

User currently offlineSketty222 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 1776 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (6 years 10 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 7431 times:

Quoting Edina (Reply 11):
GLA/ABZ/MAN/EDI all cut over to Aviance handling staff....I think it's just NCL that is Swissport, however NCL has never been in house handling. GLA Aviance staff are OK after a few teething problems, but still lack the flexibility & initiative that the BA GLA staff had.

Thanks Edina, I was maybe getting confused as Im based in NCL with some of my friends working for Swissport.
With regards to NCL nevre been in-house, I know that ticket desk staff were definately employed by BA



There's flying and then there's flying
User currently offlineJonnyWishbone From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 143 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 10 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 6067 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 14):
if AA and BA are able to get full ATI, which I see as eventually inevitable, I don't think it is out of the realm of possibility for them to shift U.S. operations handling (at least below-wing) in many of their smaller U.S. stations to AA

No offense, but dear God no, please dont!!!!

The thing about flying BA is customer service and the attraction of it not being like a cattle market like aviation in general in the US - with a dreadful hub like LHR, the airline HAS to retain this unique selling point or it might as well close tomorrow


User currently offlinePlanesavvy From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2007, 65 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 10 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 5652 times:

For an airline like BA they can get much better performance results by outsourcing staff. Contracts given to ground handling agencies are generally fairly short term, meaning the airline holds all the cards and can demand certain levels of performance.

BMI sold off their in house handling a few years ago to what is now Aviance and they regularly are top of the on-time performance charts at LHR. BA's is in comparison very poor as has been well publicised.

I agree it is better for airlines to keep customer service departments in house.


User currently offlineConcorde001 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 1230 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (6 years 10 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4845 times:

Quoting Planesavvy (Reply 17):
BMI sold off their in house handling a few years ago to what is now Aviance and they regularly are top of the on-time performance charts at LHR.

BMI still handles all passenger processing at LHR, MAN, GLA and EDI itself. All below wing handling is done by Aviance I believe, but check-in, boarding is all in house wtih BD staff.

BMI did sell BMHS in 2001, but kept its own Passenger Service Agents excluded from this deal.


User currently offlineLHRBlueSkies From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 493 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (6 years 10 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4514 times:

BA do intend to get rid of all pax-facing staff in the long term, no matter which airport it is. They want to simply to be able to fly the planes, leaving the ground headaches to others. It will happen, just a matter of when...

And what's the big deal anyway, because it's the service in the air that most pay for, not that on the ground, and let's be honest, so long as the service is efficient and your bag arrives, does anyone really care who checks you in?

I've had better service from a ground handler than from 'dedicated' airline staff, and I'd bet that unless you guys personally know the person checking you in...



flying is the safest form of transport - until humans get involved!
User currently offlineXtoler From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 953 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 10 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4121 times:

This is nothing new. Sometimes outsourcing companies do work out for the best, especially if they keep the same employees, but I've seen a lot of times it doesn't. Unfortunately a lot of companies don't even offer present employees a chance to cross over. I've seen this with the switch of US Airways ground crew in Richmond, VA to Aerotek. US Air wasn't paying a whole lot, but Aerotek was paying even less and the turnover rate of employees was sort of high in the beginning, as most of the employees had very little training in ground ops.

Some local government agencies are also doing this same thing. Once again, the commonwealth of Virginia has done the same thing. My mom being one and her choice was continue working for the state, and take the chance of getting laid off or just take the pay cut and become a contractor. She became a contractor, making a little more money but losing all of her retirement benefits. It's just the sign of the times and goes to show, the rich are getting rich and us middle class people are losing more everyday, regardless of education and experience.



EMB145 F/A, F/E, J41 F/A, F/E, because my wife clipped my wings, armchair captain
User currently offlineLH423 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 6501 posts, RR: 54
Reply 21, posted (6 years 10 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3882 times:

This has been flying around the BA rumour mill for a while.

I think most people around BA feel that it is inevitable that, at least in smaller stations, work will be transferred over to a handling company. Mostly, single flight stations and lower yielding stations, like MCO, SEA, PHX, DFW, ATL, etc. Multi-flight, high yield stations like JFK, ORD, IAD, BOS, MIA will remain BA, but I suspect without union representation.

LH423



« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
User currently offlineB752fanatic From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 918 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (6 years 10 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3632 times:

Quoting LHRBlueSkies (Reply 19):
And what's the big deal anyway, because it's the service in the air that most pay for, not that on the ground, and let's be honest, so long as the service is efficient and your bag arrives, does anyone really care who checks you in?

Really? the big deal is that for the workers, they won't receive the same benefits, they won't be working for an AIRLINE, they will be working for a company that its only contracted to do a job.

And costumer service does indeed get affected at the end, without any motivation, without having the privilege of saying I work for one of the best airlines in the world, the AIRLINE REP, will be demoted to PAX SVC agent, which is a lousy title if you ask me, what is PAX SVC agent? another fine word for a person that does not work for an airline, rather does services to passengers for a company that is not an AIRLINE.

There was a time long ago that working for an airline was the THING, nowadays is just merely a job.

A pity.



"Truth is more of a stranger than fiction." Mark Twain
User currently offlineJcavinato From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 520 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 10 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3526 times:

No company has ever cut costs and went on to gain prosperity. At best, they devolve to a mid-level, bland service/product mediocrity and financial performance that goes unnoticed by customers and stockholders. What it attains, all companies that have severely outsourced (especially at the customer-contact points), is a denigration of service. No company has ever come back from that spiral.

I have done intense outsource./insource academic research in collaboration with a major consulting firm involving over 800 companies worldwide from 1990 to the current day to back up our finding here.

No one serves good customer contact points better than an actual company employee. Yet, so many CEOs and chief financial officers are blind to this rule of business.

I hope this rumor isn't so. I like BA very much and am loyal to it.


User currently offlineXtoler From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 953 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 10 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3199 times:

Quoting B752fanatic (Reply 22):
the AIRLINE REP, will be demoted to PAX SVC agent, which is a lousy title if you ask me, what is PAX SVC agent?

Pax service agent is pretty much anyone who works ticketing, works at the gate, and the ramp/jetway and coordinates with the F/A (or loadsmasher for us USAF veterans)_ Well, that's how it was when I was in the Air Force as a 60555 (Air Transportation Journeyman). The way I see it as a blow to ego. It's even more of a blow to take a pay cut. Before I left the Air Force in '94 they changed the specialty job codes. I went from being a journeyman to a 2x2 transportation apprentice. I still kept my E-4 (Senior Airman) rank and my job as a shift stupervisor for terminating cargo processing, but the reallignment of jobs really ticked me off and I felt like I got demoted, but didn't. What the heck, I was only 22 at the time. If I would have known better at the time I'd only have 3 more years to retirement. It's one thing for this to happen in the military, at least you don't lose pay or rank or benefits, but you do have to stay on top of the game and continue training if you want to make it a career. Unfortunately, the civilian side doesn't work that way.



EMB145 F/A, F/E, J41 F/A, F/E, because my wife clipped my wings, armchair captain
25 HPAEAA : I don't know about this rumor, but I know some stations are outsourced.. well masked though... I know HP used to do both up and down at PHX, Agents ev
26 Jcavinato : Yeah, that was true at PHX. Not sure if it still does. They pulled off the regular BA class act. And, that is done by other carriers around the world.
27 Rivet42 : I have to say that for a company so proud of customer service, not to mention using it as a key selling point, the idea of outsourcing customer facing
28 Leskova : Without wanting to sound too drastic: learn to live with it. I work on the travel agency side of the travel industry, and airlines used to be our par
29 BFS : I wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. As has been said already, they have outsourced in the regions to the detriment of good service (at least acco
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