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WN Cargo = Success?  
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4596 posts, RR: 18
Posted (7 years 3 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3185 times:

This may have been brought up in the past but is cargo the real reason for WN success? Their loads are never spectacular yet they continue to beat the industry. Well I was just looking up IND traffic stats and I happen to glance at the cargo stats and saw something interesting. While WN accounts for only 14% of the passengers served at IND they account for a third of all cargo shipped via the passenger carriers. That has to be a huge deal for them. Do they carry for the USPS?


Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineChris133 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 303 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3132 times:

No WN does not carry for the USPS anymore. But they do carry a lot of cargo from most of their stations. Cargo tends to yield a lot better returns then the mail ever did.

User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5702 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3038 times:

Quoting Indy (Thread starter):
This may have been brought up in the past but is cargo the real reason for WN success?

Real Reason, No, but it doesn't hurt WN.

Quoting Indy (Thread starter):
Their loads are never spectacular yet they continue to beat the industry.

Low Loads doesn't mean they arent making profits or lower profits, just like High load factors doesn't mean airlines are making money, the biggest rule for profit never, look at the load factors for passengers  Wink

Quoting Indy (Thread starter):
Well I was just looking up IND traffic stats and I happen to glance at the cargo stats and saw something interesting. While WN accounts for only 14% of the passengers served at IND they account for a third of all cargo shipped via the passenger carriers.

Yes WN has big contracts with a lot of cargo folks, and it helps their bottom dollar in terms of revenue for most stations.

Quoting Indy (Thread starter):
Do they carry for the USPS?

As answered, No.

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2890 times:

When you consider that in most cases, someone shipping cargo on an airline is paying more to ship that item (or items) than most passengers paid for a seat. They're also paying a higher for the faster service a passenger airline offer over someone like FedEx, UPS, or DHL. Since the bulk of those three shipping companies flights are in the overnight hours, if at say 9 am you find out you need something delivered from MCO to SAN by 3 pm Pacific Time, your only choice is to utilize the cargo division of someone like DL, WN, AA, UA, etc., as they offer enough flights during the day to get your item delivered there in time. For the most part, airlines will leave bags behind before they'd leave cargo behind.

User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5934 posts, RR: 41
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2800 times:

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 3):
For the most part, airlines will leave bags behind before they'd leave cargo behind.

well these are really new news to me... and sorry but absolutely not true in 99% of the cases.... exceptions are human remains, maybe some kind of perishable cargo...



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineN77014 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2653 times:

Cargo is big business for any carrier; the fact that WN offers so much coverage out of MDW, LAX, OAK means they get a large share of business from the freight forwarders.

User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9754 posts, RR: 31
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2611 times:

WN actively sells cargo. The "Born to ship" poster is famous. Besides it is fact that, for most of the other big 7 except NW, cargo is a step child.

Another big advantage ois WNs non hubbing strategy. They offer point to point servics and on many routes they are much faster than FX or UPS, same day instead of overnight at reasonable rates.



Es saugt und blaest der Heinzelmann wo Mutti sonst nur blasen kann. Frueher war mehr Lametta.
User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4165 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2552 times:

I was up at the Manchester (NH) Airport interviewing the station manager there for Southwest. I was writing a chapter on air cargo for a book that we released called 'Manchester's Airport: Flying Through Time.' Anyway, I wanted to get a take on air cargo from their perspective in addition to 'just' going over to see the FedEx and UPS A300s that come in here daily.

And I found that air cargo via Southwest is quite lucrative! Lobsters galore! Flowers for Valentine's Day. Car parts. Human organs! All sorts of things. In truth, Southwest could get stuff to the west coast faster than even FedEx or UPS could even with connecting flights. I was pretty impressed with learning about all the stuff that boards (or gets off of) Southwest's 737s at Manchester. Seafood, in particular, was a big thing...bound for west coast cities.

Chris in NH


User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2502 times:

Quoting Avianca (Reply 4):
well these are really new news to me... and sorry but absolutely not true in 99% of the cases.... exceptions are human remains, maybe some kind of perishable cargo...

Then it would probably surprise you that in some cases, even the mail take priority over passenger bags.

It's cheaper to leave passenger bags behind than to pay the fines levied by the USPS for delaying certain types of mail.

While it costs an airline to forward left behind baggage, a lot of those costs are offset by the money that cargo brings in.


User currently offlineAmtrakGuy From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 500 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2443 times:

I'm curious about NWA Cargo Division. How much is the Cargo contribute into NWA's financial? And, with all those 747F flying into USA, do NWA transfers cargo with connecton flights (only if it fits into the smaller plane's cargo).

User currently offlineChris133 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 303 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2384 times:

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 8):
Quoting Avianca (Reply 4):
well these are really new news to me... and sorry but absolutely not true in 99% of the cases.... exceptions are human remains, maybe some kind of perishable cargo...

Then it would probably surprise you that in some cases, even the mail take priority over passenger bags.

It's cheaper to leave passenger bags behind than to pay the fines levied by the USPS for delaying certain types of mail.

While it costs an airline to forward left behind baggage, a lot of those costs are offset by the money that cargo brings in.

Thats why WN stopped carrying mail because of the this the post office wanted unreasonable services for the price, and they wanted it to take priority above everything excepts bags.


User currently offlineAA61Hvy From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 13977 posts, RR: 57
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2378 times:

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 3):
your only choice

Not true-see FedEx Same Day or FedEx Next Flight.....
http://www.fedex.com/us/services/us/sameday.html
Can't find a link for Next Flight on a quick look...



Go big or go home
User currently offlineChris133 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 303 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2347 times:

Quoting AA61Hvy (Reply 11):

Not true-see FedEx Same Day or FedEx Next Flight.....
http://www.fedex.com/us/services/us/sameday.html
Can't find a link for Next Flight on a quick look...

I looked up UPS same day service from BWI to BUF and they wanted $719 for a 1lbs envelop with no DV but WN wanted $67 and could get it there in 2 hrs as opposed to 11 hrs. (this was airport to airport not any deliveries)


User currently offlineAA61Hvy From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 13977 posts, RR: 57
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2335 times:

Quoting Chris133 (Reply 12):
looked up UPS same day service from BWI to BUF and they wanted $719 for a 1lbs envelop with no DV but WN wanted $67 and could get it there in 2 hrs as opposed to 11 hrs. (this was airport to airport not any deliveries)

Didn't mention cost  Wink



Go big or go home
User currently offlineGuitrThree From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2059 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2302 times:

Quoting Chris133 (Reply 12):
looked up UPS same day service from BWI to BUF and they wanted $719 for a 1lbs envelop with no DV but WN wanted $67 and could get it there in 2 hrs as opposed to 11 hrs. (this was airport to airport not any deliveries)

So since most UPS and Fed Ex jets sit at the freight terminal all day, they can't be using their own metal, and does that mean that if you used UPS they'd just be sticking it on some WN or other passenger jet and pocket the extra money?



As Seen On FlightRadar24! Radar ==> F-KBNA5
User currently offlineAA61Hvy From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 13977 posts, RR: 57
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2279 times:

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 14):
So since most UPS and Fed Ex jets sit at the freight terminal all day, they can't be using their own metal, and does that mean that if you used UPS they'd just be sticking it on some WN or other passenger jet and pocket the extra money?

Most airlines have some kind of agreement with the cargo airlines, they carry some of ours, we carry some of theirs.



Go big or go home
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2257 times:

When I worked for ASA last year, I would see a lot of stuff from the cargo companies; FedEx, UPS, DHL, you name it. Plus the countless Dash stuff. Most airlines really rely on their "cargo division". Delta does pretty well from what I saw when I worked in ATL. Always saw boxes marked "live fish", flowers was a big thing, would see a lot of the other airline's AOG stuff (but that's something totally different from this). This doesn't deal with cargo but baggage; but anyway, one time when I was in the bagroom, I saw this HUGE surf board that was all neatly bubble taped and wrapped laying up against the wall by the recheck desk. Well I asked the guy what flight it had missed because I was willing to run it out to the next flight. He said it came off an LAX-ATL flight and the guy wa going to CHS. Well needless to say, they couldn't get the damn thing to fit in the RJ bin and there was no mainline service at the time so they called Delta and let them know and they called him (he was already in South Carolina). Turns out, he had bought the board in LA and was brining it back with him. Fit just fine in the 738 on it's way to ATL but never would have fit in our bin. Well Delta ended up icking up the board later that day and I'm guessing the shipped it to him.


What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineLrdc9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 610 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2195 times:

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 7):
And I found that air cargo via Southwest is quite lucrative! Lobsters galore! Flowers for Valentine's Day. Car parts. Human organs! All sorts of things. In truth, Southwest could get stuff to the west coast faster than even FedEx or UPS could even with connecting flights. I was pretty impressed with learning about all the stuff that boards (or gets off of) Southwest's 737s at Manchester. Seafood, in particular, was a big thing...bound for west coast cities.

I was at BWI last week and was listning to Southwest Ops, someone was bringing bone marrow.



Just say NO to scabs.
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7565 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2091 times:

Quoting AmtrakGuy (Reply 9):
I'm curious about NWA Cargo Division. How much is the Cargo contribute into NWA's financial? And, with all those 747F flying into USA, do NWA transfers cargo with connecton flights (only if it fits into the smaller plane's cargo).

Keep in mind that most of NW Cargo's operates are TRUE cargo, WN doesn't have what most would consider as true cargo. NW Cargo ships things like Computers etc in bulks that would take up most of the 737 passenger area (width and height wise) NW cargo has transported things from hugh wheels to elephants and beyond.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineConcordeGBOAD From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 39 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2044 times:

Quoting AA61Hvy (Reply 11):
Not true-see FedEx Same Day or FedEx Next Flight.....
http://www.fedex.com/us/services/us/....html

I have done this before.

The only thing that had the FedEx name on it was the airbill. A local courier showed up in a Ford Ranger, picked up my boxes, and told me what WN flight it would be on with the departure and arrival information.

FedEx tracking was right on top of it too!


User currently offlineN200WN From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 784 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2036 times:

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 18):
Keep in mind that most of NW Cargo's operates are TRUE cargo, WN doesn't have what most would consider as true cargo. NW Cargo ships things like Computers etc

Sure about that? You wouldn't believe the business that WN does with Dell Computers out of AUS.


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9754 posts, RR: 31
Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2017 times:

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 18):

Keep in mind that most of NW Cargo's operates are TRUE cargo, WN doesn't have what most would consider as true cargo. NW Cargo ships things like Computers etc in bulks that would take up most of the 737 passenger area (width and height wise) NW cargo has transported things from hugh wheels to elephants and beyond.


HEY GO SIOUX!!!!

What is TRUE cargo? Do you mean freighter aircraft? NWA uses these mainly on international to Aisa. Besides that, every plane can carry cargo and every cargo shipment from 1 lbs to 100 tons is tue air cargo.

The integrators offer same day but as has been mentiond already, use other carriers for the line haul. A customer is well advised, to use W or other mainline airlines for that, or the help of a local courier company at both ends. They can achive transit times the integrators imply cannot match. Or, has has been mentioned as well, they use these sources and then bill the customer 712 $ when he could get the same or better result for a fraction of that amount.



Es saugt und blaest der Heinzelmann wo Mutti sonst nur blasen kann. Frueher war mehr Lametta.
User currently offlineSwatpamike From United States of America, joined May 2004, 581 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1859 times:

Hello All

Quoting AA61Hvy (Reply 11):
FedEx Same Day or FedEx Next Flight



Quoting Chris133 (Reply 12):
UPS same day service

We ship both FedEx same day and UPS Sonic same day on Southwest.

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 14):
So since most UPS and Fed Ex jets sit at the freight terminal all day, they can't be using their own metal, and does that mean that if you used UPS they'd just be sticking it on some WN or other passenger jet and pocket the extra money?

 checkmark 

Quoting N200WN (Reply 20):
You wouldn't believe the business that WN does with Dell Computers out of AUS.

Have onloaded many Dells in Tampa and Orlando out of our planes.

Cheers

swatpamike


User currently offlineAmtrakGuy From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 500 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1744 times:

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 18):
Keep in mind that most of NW Cargo's operates are TRUE cargo, WN doesn't have what most would consider as true cargo. NW Cargo ships things like Computers etc in bulks that would take up most of the 737 passenger area (width and height wise) NW cargo has transported things from hugh wheels to elephants and beyond.

Since NWA has retired some A320 -- why don't they convert those planes into Cargo Fleet and use it for connection flights to their final destination in USA?

Quoting N200WN (Reply 20):
Sure about that? You wouldn't believe the business that WN does with Dell Computers out of AUS.

I have seen Ramp Crew loaded at least 25 Dell Computer Boxes into WN's cargo in HOU -- in fact, on my flight to BWI. So I can imagine my plane cargo was full with Dell Computers and baggages.

Dave


User currently offlineChris133 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 303 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1680 times:

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 14):
So since most UPS and Fed Ex jets sit at the freight terminal all day, they can't be using their own metal, and does that mean that if you used UPS they'd just be sticking it on some WN or other passenger jet and pocket the extra money?

FedEx DHL, UPS, Bax all ship at least some packages on other airlines.

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 18):
WN doesn't have what most would consider as true cargo. NW Cargo ships things like Computers etc in bulks that would take up most of the 737 passenger area (width and height wise)

I guess you have never seen AUS in the morning after Dell has dropped off. I will say its an art form packing 200pcs of Dell computers in the bins of a 737 thats already full. Or for that matter 5000lbs of live crabs that really don't want to be there in the first place. But if you really want to see the freight the WN moves go o LAX or BWI around mid/late November right before the shopping crunch. You'll see exactly how much a 737 can hold.


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9754 posts, RR: 31
Reply 25, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1639 times:

Quoting AmtrakGuy (Reply 23):
Since NWA has retired some A320 -- why don't they convert those planes into Cargo Fleet and use it for connection flights to their final destination in USA?

because it is cheaper to truck air freight to the final destination.

The other reasons are - the planes might belong to a lessor, there is no A320 conversion program in place yet, it would not make any economocal sense for a mainline, long haiul freight carrier, so set up a short / medium haul cargo system in the US in competition with DX and UPS plus the other, smaller firms.



Es saugt und blaest der Heinzelmann wo Mutti sonst nur blasen kann. Frueher war mehr Lametta.
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