Nycfly75 From Italy, joined Aug 2005, 748 posts, RR: 10 Posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 15472 times:
As per a post on Flyertalk, Richard Andersen in his weekly phone message to employees stated that DL's latest Int'l expansion will be announced next week. It was also said that he will be at JFK next week to address Delta's JFK Terminal Situation.
RwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3014 posts, RR: 2 Reply 1, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 15454 times:
Should be interesting to hear. This seems about the right time. DL made the BOM and ACC announcements last June, but I'm sure this year's announcements were contingent on the outcome of the China proceedings.
Nycfly75 From Italy, joined Aug 2005, 748 posts, RR: 10 Reply 2, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 15441 times:
Quoting RwSEA (Reply 1): Should be interesting to hear. This seems about the right time. DL made the BOM and ACC announcements last June, but I'm sure this year's announcements were contingent on the outcome of the China proceedings.
Alitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4657 posts, RR: 45 Reply 3, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 15427 times:
Quoting Nycfly75 (Reply 2):
China is only the tip of the iceberg
SQ452 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1053 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 15134 times:
Quoting Nycfly75 (Reply 5): Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 3):
How can you be so sure?
I can't, just a hunch. Wink
There's another thread on here (can't find it at the moment) saying that Secretary Peters will be in Atlanta on Tuesday to personally tell Anderson that Delta landed one of the China route authorities (or both possibly we don't know the exact details yet).
I just wonder when CVG will get some Int'l expansion
Humberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4901 posts, RR: 5 Reply 8, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 15085 times:
Quoting SQ452 (Reply 7): I just wonder when CVG will get some Int'l expansion
For a hub of it's size and status hasnt CVG got a very god European network? Not sure about Canada and Mexico routes but compare its European service to MEM, SLC, STL, PIT, even MSP
SQ452 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1053 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 15023 times:
Quoting Humberside (Reply 8): For a hub of it's size and status hasnt CVG got a very god European network? Not sure about Canada and Mexico routes but compare its European service to MEM, SLC, STL, PIT, even MSP
CVG does indeed have a decent European network (CDG, LGW, FRA, AMS, FCO) but thats really as far as it has gone unfortunately, 5 cities in Europe max. Back in the day, Brussels and Zurich were also in there before AMS and FCO were opened up. Sabena ran the Brussels route with 747's even, and Swissair was a codeshare on the Zurich flights (and they even tinkered putting their own metal on the route at some point I think). Heck, we even had 2x daily London flights at one point, and 2x daily to CDG, one on AF and one on DL.
These routes have been around (at least the first 3) for a while now and have been good money makers for DL. Perhaps expansion to another continent from CVG would work. We get CUN service but only a few frequencies a week so they could possibly take that to daily.
Back in 2000 or so, back when Delta first applied for China route authority (ages ago it seems), they wanted to run 3x weekly service to Beijing from CVG (the application was 7x weekly JFK>PEK service and 3x weekly CVG>PEK service. There were 10 frequencies a week up for grabs). Needless to say it never went anywhere, but if they went for it back then there has to be at least some demand through and from CVG to Asia. Granted, back then it was before 9/11, and before DL "right-sized" the Cincinnati hub, which I still don't even know was a good idea or not. NRT, or ICN would probably get at least SOME decent loads if they went for those.
Can't happen. All USA-Colombia air frequencies are used up. Hopefully this will change soon, because Colombia might expand their bilateral with the US.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31117 posts, RR: 74 Reply 15, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 14930 times:
Quoting Exusair (Reply 14):
Thought I read on another thread that a new bilateral had been signed and that new frequencies are being permitted.
It is looking likely, but I'm not sure it is official yet. What is happening is that Barranquilla will be "Open Skies", so anybody can fly to BAQ at any frequencies. This means AA's seven MIA-BAQ flights go beyond the bilatteral, and AA will free up seven USA-Colombia frequencies. However, AA has first dibs to use them, and they will find use for them. I think that USA-Colombia will expand by at least fourteen, maybe 21 frequencies. If there are 21 free ones, Spirit and Delta will probably take them. I could see Delta getting between 7-10 and Spirit getting between 14-18.
Edit: Nevermind. Correct, it has been signed. Good news.
ChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 3805 posts, RR: 2 Reply 17, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 14849 times:
Everything that can be said about Delta in Boston will be realized when NOTHING is said about Delta in Boston. I don't know who to blame: Massport as landlord or Delta as tenant. But, once-upon-a-time, Delta was going to have a major international presence at Logan.
Jetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2903 posts, RR: 28 Reply 18, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 14770 times:
Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 17): Everything that can be said about Delta in Boston will be realized when NOTHING is said about Delta in Boston. I don't know who to blame: Massport as landlord or Delta as tenant. But, once-upon-a-time, Delta was going to have a major international presence at Logan.
If you really need to place blame, how about blaming the BOS market? If it was a better opportunity Delta would serve it. It's just not big enough, or high-yielding enough when considering all the existing competition at BOS and opportunities at JFK & ATL.
Nobody is out to get you man, the market just isn't all that.
MSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6242 posts, RR: 51 Reply 19, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 14766 times:
DL should have tried something other than BOS-LGW. They tried the route at least two times starting in the late 90's and they got their clocks cleaned by VS, AA, and BA which fly to Heathrow.
B752OS From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1322 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 14676 times:
Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 18): If you really need to place blame, how about blaming the BOS market? If it was a better opportunity Delta would serve it. It's just not big enough, or high-yielding enough when considering all the existing competition at BOS and opportunities at JFK & ATL.
Nobody is out to get you man, the market just isn't all that
How do you figure? BOS is a larger market to Europe than ATL is. You honestly believe that ATL is a high yielding market to Europe? JFK sure is. ATL and their large European network lives from lower yielding connecting pax.
Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 17): Everything that can be said about Delta in Boston will be realized when NOTHING is said about Delta in Boston. I don't know who to blame: Massport as landlord or Delta as tenant. But, once-upon-a-time, Delta was going to have a major international presence at Logan.
data from DOT filings regarding a number of routes flown by US carriers. There are a number of conclusions that can be drawn but over and over a.netters simply do not understand the reality of particular carriers' int'l operations and fact one is that DL's ATL hub generates some of the highest average local fares and highest onboard revenue. DL doesn't carry trash through ATL but instead is able to carefully pick and choose the highest value passengers that can connect through ATL to its international flights. Most other carriers would dream of being able to carry the revenue DL carries because DL's ATL revenue performance blows away what other carriers do from other hubs.
JFK has been DL's historical challenge. They have had a number of markets that have done very well but they have had an equal number that are poor performers. Indications from their most recent profit report is that they are fixing the laggards or they couldn't have reported as good of results as they did.
It makes no sense for DL to try to develop BOS at the same time it is beefing up NYC. NYC is a huge project on its own; trying to do too much at one time is a recipe for disaster. Further, no other US carrier is beating the door down at BOS to open new routes.
Next week will be a grand week at DL. This will undoubtedly be one of DL's most global expansions ever and, as I've said, DL will add more new routes through this series of announcements than many carriers fly for their entire interntional network.
B752OS From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1322 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 14472 times:
Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 21): Once again, statements like this fly completely in the face of facts. I posted here:
The Real Deal On Int'l Local Market Size (by WorldTraveler Aug 2 2007 in Civil Aviation)
data from DOT filings regarding a number of routes flown by US carriers. There are a number of conclusions that can be drawn but over and over a.netters simply do not understand the reality of particular carriers' int'l operations and fact one is that DL's ATL hub generates some of the highest average local fares and highest onboard revenue. DL doesn't carry trash through ATL but instead is able to carefully pick and choose the highest value passengers that can connect through ATL to its international flights. Most other carriers would dream of being able to carry the revenue DL carries because DL's ATL revenue performance blows away what other carriers do from other hubs.
That's a nice presentation, but you still did not refute my claims. I said lower yielding pax come thourgh and connect on ATL-Europe flights. What you said is that DL gets higher yielding local pax. The stats on that link only supported my claims that ATL-Europe flights are dominated by connecting pax.
ChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 3805 posts, RR: 2 Reply 23, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 14464 times:
I wasn't trying to 'defend' Boston, because I happen to believe that the airport is served well enough right now with respect to Europe. I can't really point to any sensible Boston-Europe routes that aren't already being served adequately. But still, Delta did have some grand plans for Boston that they summarily abandoned even while their beautiful new Logan terminal was under construction. "9-11" makes for a convenient 'reason why,' but if that argument really held water then they would have abandoned plans for JFK. It's more personal than that, between Massport & Delta IMO.
What would be nice, but not altogether realistic, is if Delta trumped an airline like Northwest and started Boston-Asia service. THAT is a market that is not already adequately served. In fact, no one serves it. But flying in the face of that is the fact that NW has ordered 787s while DL hasn't.
LN-MOW From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 1896 posts, RR: 15 Reply 24, posted (5 years 8 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 14464 times:
Coincides nicely with the announcement at ARN monday about a new US-ARN route 'by a leading international carrier'....
- I am LN-MOW, and I approve this message.
25 FlyPNS1: Nothing in the data you have shown supports this. You haven't show the fares for the connecting traffic only for the O+D traffic. Again, what you are
26 B752OS: There are a few holes out of Boston that would be nice to see filled. Namely BRU, LIS (year round), MAN (year round) and DUB ( year round) I think DL
28 EXAAUADL: ahhhh...yes it is ATL-Europe is pretty high yielding and I'd bet more so than JFK. JFK us full of VFR, foreign flags and consolidators, ATL isnt. I w
29 B752OS: HAHA, yes, JFK-Europe is filled with only VFR and consolidators. Excuse me, I forgot, Atlanta is a more important business center than New York is. S
30 Dbo861: Could this be the long awaited announcement of plans to replace Terminals 2 and 3?
31 Jetlanta: Yes Flow yields over ATL are even stronger than local O&D yields. That is why ATL works. Indeed. For more info see this: http://www.worldroutesstockh
32 UN_B732: I hope they announce a good terminal replacement. I don't want JFK T2 & T3 to get to the state T8 was in before it got closed. The big problem for the
33 Jetlanta: No one is saying that ATL is a more important business center man. The point being made here, if you'd calm down and listen, is that JFK has so much
34 Rcardinale: I also think that it would be a good idea for DL to start BOS- BRU LIS and MAN. The last time any airline flew BOS-BRU was Sabena in the 90's and they
36 Jetlanta: I should clarify this by saying that stage-adjusted yields are higher, on average, from ATL. Throw in lower costs and you have a very profitable oper
37 DL173: All, here's a juicy, verified first flight already in the CRS and available for booking at www.delta.com Stockholm is back, inaugural flight ATL - ARN
38 BWilliams: I personally find it interesting that DL is flying this route. I would have thought that they'd do JFK-ARN... I can understand going through ATL, but
39 MSYtristar: Now this is great news! Maybe i'll get on that inagural. Always wanted to go to Sweden. Great job, Delta! By the way, I always enjoy reading the anti
40 Nycfly75: They will be announcing a lot of other stuff from JFK Im sure.
41 ConcordeBoy: Not really. The flight was from ATL and was to make a scheduled stop in CVG, due to the M11's (or should I say, the "SCUD's") unreliability on 6000nm
42 Eastern023: Yep, no DL from ATL-LPB I still wonder about JFK-SCL
43 MSYtristar: I think they did for a time. I flew BOS-BRU on a DL/SN codeshare in November, 1999. A330-300 departing from one of the DL gates at Logan.
44 EXAAUADL: Boy you know zero about the airline industry....your entire above argument is precisely WHY JFK has lower yields...COMPETITION...let me ask you have
45 EXAAUADL: That is precisely why yields from JFK are lower....no raw yields might be hoigher but again I said you must stage length adjust yields to get a good
46 Pizzaandplanes: Scandinavia has been a cash cow for CO. Bringing in more competition won't hurt. I am happy that DL is joining CO's boat in success overseas.
47 RJpieces: I'm very curious what they will announce regarding their terminal at JFK. They don't really have many options to continue expanding at this point...Ei
48 Deltasju777: Will LAX receive any announcements or is it strictly JFK and ATL?
49 EXAAUADL: LAX-Europe is a real stretch for US carriers and I dont think DL's product is up to par for the important LAX-CDG route. Reason why European carries
50 Lexy: LOL! GAWD what a curve ball you just threw.
51 N270FT: I would really like to see more UK airports, perhaps BHX or STN. AW
52 DAL767400ER: Like that would make any difference anymore after this summer . They sure did in 2002. IIRC, they actually launched BRU-BOS before BRU-JFK. But alas,
53 SLCUT2777: Look no further than the infamous Port Authority of Massachusetts. They know how to screw up something good before it gets started. It would be nice
54 B752OS: Wow, all I can do is laugh at you. Would you like a medal for seeing the data. If you read the post I was repsonding to, never once was it mentioned
55 Humberside: Anyone know if JFK-EDI is definetly going ahead. Its on sale but there are rumours on some British aviation forums it wont happen. Also rumours of GLA
56 Evan767: What a stupid argument... Get over it people.
57 SLCUT2777: Hopefully better rail service being discussed in another thread can make JFK as valuable to any carrier as LGA slots are. What hurts JFK more than an
59 Gilesdavies: I wonder if there will be any new UK destinations to be added? They should try and get a bite of the north London/Home Counties market, as AA are at S
60 B747forever: I dont think that this will happen. That is already covered up with other carrier.
61 FlyPNS1: Which is exactly why your analysis of ATL's high-yields is flawed. You shouldn't need to stage adjust transatlantic revenues between flows over ATL v
62 Evan767: Regarding the Zagreb rumor: DL JFK-ZAG? (by Evan767 Mar 5 2007 in Civil Aviation) Here's the newspaper article: http://img485.imageshack.us/my.php?ima
63 RL757PVD: #1 enough with the yeilds.... those in the know...know you are right, and know what you will never convince the ignant ones #2 while all airlines are
64 OOer: I have heard talk of DL possibly starting JFK - CTA and or PMO.....anyone hear anything similar?
65 Chugach: Fine for what they are (seasonal routes), but last I checked ANC wasn't an international destination for DL
66 Nycfly75: Who said thats the only option...there are others being discussed.
67 B747forever: Dont think they will start this routes.
69 B747forever: I dont think so. But maybe I have wrong.
70 RwSEA: Right - but DL really only has capacity to add one 777 route. If they didn't get China, they would have had a backup in place, IMO. Consistent with r
71 BY738: I think that is very unlikely given EDI-ATL was such a sensational flop.
72 GLAGAZ: Far from it in the summer months. Winter was really quite poor however. Gaz
73 Alitalia744: Seriously, while I don't know you, I would suggest a cease and desist. Yields out of ATL for TATL service are significantly higher than out of JFK, e
74 PanAm747LHR: Now here's what we really want to know - with DL announcing international expansion out of JFK (again!) next week, will CO step up to the plate and an
75 DeltaL1011man: i dont think JFK will get 3 flights i think they will keep it down to 1 JFK-LHR and one JFK-LGW CVG will stay LGW and ATL will do the same as JFK(DL
77 BY738: Perhaps loads wise at height of summer, but if it was a highly profitable money spinner, why was it dropped ? and not even reinstated for the summer
78 Nycfly75: I've heard about the various concepts. One in particular will make people on here spin, especially RJpieces. [Edited 2007-09-23 00:21:18][Edited 2
80 Iflyatldl: DL1011man: I agree with everything you posted except the LAX-LHR. For now, if DL ran that, they'll have their a$$ handed to them along with their lunc
81 Alitalia744: Evan - re-read what was written...
82 DeltaL1011man: well its not so much me(i think it will be 2 ATL and 1 JFK-LHR) but i have seen it on here
83 GLAGAZ: You're entitled to your opinion, but I stick by my information. Which would appear credible to me. There will hopefully be developments over the next
84 Iflyatldl: Yeah, I think it will be 2 ATL-LHR, 1, maybe 2 JFK-LHR, 1 Maybe JFK-LGW, 1 ATL-LGW, CVG-LGW and 1 CVG-JFK-LHR and 1 SLC-JFK-LHR. LGW has been establis
85 Iflyatldl: And here's another possibility: (who knows what the powers that be at DL are thinking?)CVG-LHR. IF, they did that, it would give CVG(one of several) s
86 ScottishLaddie: An average load factor for the 12 months from June 06 to June 07 of 80% is a flop? Yes, it didn't perform particularly well in the winter, particular
87 WorldTraveler: Glad you enjoyed debating the DOT data I referenced. As usual, half of the people who comment don't know what they are talking about even when given t
88 RJpieces: Oh Lord, I hope they don't take over part of T6...That's about the only thing I can think of based on your comments. I mean, let's see...the T4 plan
89 WorldTraveler: back to the ATL discussion, remember also that DL uses one of the smallest long-range aircraft (the 763ER) as the backbone of its international fleet.
90 BWilliams: I think I'm missing something, here. Does another carrier already run JFK-ARN direct? Or is it just that there are enough flights out of JFK that con
91 OA412: No, as the quote you referenced mentions, there is adequate service from NYC. Currently, there are no airlines offering JFK-ARN but 3 offer EWR-ARN s
92 DeltaL1011man: hold on hold on there is one more open terminal at JFK although it will be gone after the move of AA thats T8(which has cumstoms right?) so who said
93 B747forever: Will DL start ATL-ARN service??? They fly out of CPH to ATL.
94 Jetlanta: Certainly you understand the difference between yields and revenue. Delta clearly is getting far superior revenues over ATL. That is not in question.
95 Tiago701: Read reply 73 I'm hoping to see LIS on that international expansion list. Although i would like to see LIS added from BOS i think it would be harder
96 Nycfly75: As I said they are exploring other options too. I think its almost safe to safe say that all or part of the land that occupies Terminal 3 will be a p
97 BY738: Perhaps you can show us the calculations for that one....oh and to convince me it wasnt a flop, Ill need the year round yield figures. I suspect, for
98 ScottishLaddie: Quite simple, just work out the monthly load factor for each month (can be found on http://www.egphforum.com for each month if you can't be bothered
99 MasseyBrown: Anybody want to suggest why ATL-LGW passenger numbers seem to be down so drastically this summer? According to the UK's CAA numbers: http://www.caa.co
100 MCOAviationFan: I believe last summer DL operated 4 daily flights from ATL to LGW. When the JFK service started, 2 of the slots at LGW were used for the JFK flights,
101 DeltaL1011man: right but i was more or less talking about what Alitalia said i am asking(cause i bet he knows) if they are going to pick up T8 because thats about a
102 MasseyBrown: Hmm.... If ATL is higher yield than JFK, as others have said, why train your high yield ATL pax to take some other route?
103 Alitalia744: Establish yourself in the NYC-LON market given starting in March you'll be flying JFK-LHR. Look for shifts to DL's UK network with airport re-alignme
104 RJpieces: I thought it was announced that T8 will start coming down the day after AA moves out?
105 B747forever: Can this help to more passenger in DLs flight???
106 Nycfly75: Well, my opinion is that Delta and Skyteam should take Terminal 4 and expand it out to where Terminal 3 is right now and include a remote satellite w
107 B747forever: Really good opinion. This will give DL more gates and the SkyTeam members to.
108 MasseyBrown: That's looking down the road, even if it's a short road; but I suppose DL feel they can get the ATL pax back whenever they want. Alternatively, the A
109 Humberside: Perhaps Im reading too much into things but you say UK network and not London network. Now I doubt there leaving MAN for LPL so that just leaves EDI
110 ConcordeBoy: ...technically, five, not four Without load restrictions, no. In theory, it could complete the route-- though it'd be an extreme stretch. To an exten
111 WorldTraveler: DL is not interested in investing billions of its own money to build a terminal for the Skyteam alliance. They will invest in gates for themselves. P
112 Evan767: For those insiders: Is it safe to say that Delta will be adding international flights to 4 different continents? (South America, Africa, Europe, Asia)
113 Nycfly75: Traveler, I agree with you. In the plan that I discussed above, the other Skyteam carriers would use the existing Pier A of Terminal 4. Delta would u
114 Sk945: Well, hope the rumors is correct. Tomorrow a new rout between ARN and USA will ba annouced. In Amadeus and on delta.com ATL-ARN is loaded för next su
115 Alitalia744: It was. And a shame given how beautiful the glass wall is. Exactly. DL is working on their own balance sheet and reducing debt. Any and all investmen
116 Steeler83: PIT would kill for European flights. Just ONE would suffice!!! It would be neat if DL announced some kind of build up there, but that's not likely wi
117 EBGflyer: I'm also quite sure ATL-ARN is one of the routes being announced. It's supposed to be revealed at a breakfast at the Route Developement Forum - Rotues
118 EBGflyer: ATL-ARN just been announced beginning June 3/4, 2008 from ATL/ARN respectively. http://www.lfv.se/templates/LFV_ListArticle____47922.aspx
119 Basefly: just read this morning that there is rumors DL will announce CPH-JFK...! To compete with Continental JFK and SK to Newark. Great for CPH!! Sorry
120 B747forever: Is this really true. OMG I am so glad. Yeippe,
127 B747forever: Pretty many seats is booked already. The flight is 9hrs55min long and back 9hrs15min.
128 B747forever: Is this the first ever flight between ARN-ATL????
129 B747forever: Will this be a year around service??? Hope so.
130 DL173: This will be a year around service. It is the 1st time Delta flies ARN - ATL. The old route until October 2001 was an old PanAm route that DL took ove
131 B747forever: Okey thank you. This flight will of course be operated out of T5 in ARN, right???.
132 DL173: Yes, that's correct. AZ, KL, AF, CO all operate out of T5, so DL will also do that. Forgot to say that the old Pan Am route was JFK - ARN until Oct 20
133 B747forever: They ended that due to 9/11, right??? ARN gets only more and more international routes. This is a really good year for ARN. Hope that we can see more
134 Fewsolarge: Just a little fun trivia, but DL has operated ATL-ARN (for JFK-ARN) when JFK experienced major snowstorms.
135 DL173: Qatar Airways are on the way in to ARN. the amount of people they're looking for is amazing. The have posted job ads in Sweden for about 17 people for
136 Airbazar: That's certainly not it. Massport is not the only party to blame here. The biggest problem at BOS is lack of space. BOS has big enough problems witho
137 B747forever: Just what I say, ARN experience a good year.
138 Blrsea: Is Delta planning any new flights to India ?
139 DL173: Any news yet regarding the DL LHR slots? Nothing yet in the CRS systems. A note of interest, looks like from the 2008 summer season the US flight PHL
140 BA744PHX: Where are you getting this from? Does anyone know how many slots DL got?
141 Skyteam10001: I think we'll know more on this mid-october, when they are supposed to announce the joint-venture between AF and DL on transatlantic flights.
142 DL173: Well, undisclosed person at US. Can't say more than that.
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