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Senate Approves $2B For Railroad Link To JFK  
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 6372 times:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2007...oves_2b_for_railroad_link_to_.html

WASHINGTON - The Senate yesterday approved $2 billion for New York City to build a rail link to JFK Airport, part of $20 billion in rebuilding aid pledged by President Bush after the 9/11 attacks.

The funding, provided through special tax credits, must be authorized by a joint Senate-House panel before it can be doled out to the city.

[Edited 2007-09-22 18:10:09]

66 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCitrusCritter From Pitcairn Islands, joined May 2007, 1093 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 6355 times:

I'm calling pork on this one. Building a railroad to JFK has pretty much nothing to do with 9/11 rebuilding. NYC has recovered extremely well to their credit....perhaps they should redirect this $2bn boondoggle - I'm sure it'll end up like the Big Dig costing significantly more -- to New Orleans, where the money is still needed.


TLH
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20394 posts, RR: 62
Reply 2, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 6326 times:

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 1):
Building a railroad to JFK has pretty much nothing to do with 9/11 rebuilding.

Of course it doesn't, it's merely politikspeak in order to get the money approved.

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 1):
perhaps they should redirect this $2bn boondoggle

Here I'll disagree with you strongly. Portland's "most valuable transportation asset" identified by a study last year--the extension of our light rail MAX line to PDX. More airports need direct rail access to the cities they serve.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26860 posts, RR: 58
Reply 3, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 6309 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 2):
More airports need direct rail access to the cities they serve.

Exactly !! Nice to see Americans finally investing in airport-city links. Public transport especially trains has never been its strong point and JFK badly needs it .


User currently offlinePizzaandplanes From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 6291 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 2):
perhaps they should redirect this $2bn boondoggle

They have already wasted more than $2b so why dump more back in? Of course there are better things to do with that kind of money but in the long term the $2b will not only connect travelers around the world directly to NYC but will also generate revenue for the future. NJ Transit set new passenger records on their trains this past year. Being connected by rail is becoming increasingly more important, difficult, and popular with the challenges we face in the world today.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21478 posts, RR: 60
Reply 5, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 6287 times:

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 1):
to New Orleans, where the money is still needed.

I am not in favor of sending 1 more federal dime to the most corrupt state in the nation, Louisiana. And this is coming from someone who's Mom was born and raised there.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineUN_B732 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 6253 times:

The MAX to PDX is excellent. I can't think of a US airport with a more convenient ride into the city. I wonder how they would implement this to JFK. They probably couldn't use existing AirTrain track?

-A



What now?
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 6235 times:

Quoting UN_B732 (Reply 6):
I can't think of a US airport with a more convenient ride into the city.

DCA is probably the most convenient.

Quoting UN_B732 (Reply 6):
I wonder how they would implement this to JFK. They probably couldn't use existing AirTrain track?

There has been talk of having the AirTrain use a special LIRR track to operate all the way to downtown Manhattan...


User currently offlineN270ft From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 85 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 6224 times:

Personally I don't think that this is absolutely necessary for JFK. Off-peak, the LIRR rarely takes more than 25 mins.

Would this be a new extension to the airport, or will it just be a dedicated "airport express" from Jamaica?

AW


User currently offlineComorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4896 posts, RR: 16
Reply 9, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 6210 times:

Excellent news! JFK on its way to becoming a first-world airport! Free trolleys a la LHR would help too.

Before we all get too excited, isn't this part of the Lower Manhattan Transportation Hub (at the WTC) project? It's really a rail link between JFK and Downtown, not much value for those of us living in 10021. It'd be so great to have a nonstop to JFK from Grand Central.


User currently offlineCitrusCritter From Pitcairn Islands, joined May 2007, 1093 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 6188 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 2):
More airports need direct rail access to the cities they serve.

I don't disagree with that. My boondoggle comment has to do with the cost-overruns that will certainly occur. No doubt, simply to get the money, the cost has already been underestimated.



TLH
User currently offlineSh0rtybr0wn From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 528 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 6171 times:

Excellent.
To put that cost in perspective , the U.S. is currently spending 12 Billion a week in Iraq. This is money better spent. America should spend much more on urban rail and city links such as this. It works well in almost every other country, we can make it work here in the U.S.
The U.S. should consider linking up the entire east coast with energy efficient, quiet, non polluting Maglevs too. Soon, when gas is 7 or 8 USD a gallon people, will be more receptive to this idea.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21478 posts, RR: 60
Reply 12, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 6171 times:

Quoting Comorin (Reply 9):
It'd be so great to have a nonstop to JFK from Grand Central.

No chance of that without using subway tracks or spending way more than $2 billion. And even then, you would then have 3 links focused on manhattan.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4234 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 6147 times:

My question is, the Rail links to JFK are pretty good already. Why is this going to JFK and not LGA, which is the airport that really needs a rail link badly?

User currently offlineN710PS From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1166 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 6049 times:

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 1):
to New Orleans, where the money is still needed.

It would not be needed if people down there were smart enough to think and go "oh no, floods, and storms, lets move the city elsewhere" but than again, well ....... never mind. If the city was smart they would make LGA more rail accessable via Jamaica Station . That would be nice because cabs and stuff are getting much more expensive these days. JFK has the Air Train.



There is plenty of room for Gods animals, right next to the mashed potatoes!
User currently offlineElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1536 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5995 times:

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 1):
I'm calling pork on this one.

Exactly what it is.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 3):
Public transport especially trains has never been its strong point and JFK badly needs it .

JFK has two rail links, Air Train to Jamaica station AND Howard Beach subway.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 5):
I am not in favor of sending 1 more federal dime to the most corrupt state in the nation, Louisiana. And this is coming from someone who's Mom was born and raised there.

I'd agree with you, but with the state that New Orleans is in, they could really use the money.

Quoting Comorin (Reply 9):
Excellent news! JFK on its way to becoming a first-world airport! Free trolleys a la LHR would help too.

Adding another rail link to JFK (making Air Train obsolete) isn't going to help make JFK a world class airport.

Quoting Comorin (Reply 9):
It'd be so great to have a nonstop to JFK from Grand Central.

Penn Station would make more sense because of the connection that can be made (LIRR/NJT/Amtrak).

Quoting Apodino (Reply 13):
My question is, the Rail links to JFK are pretty good already.

EXACTLY!

Quoting Apodino (Reply 13):
Why is this going to JFK and not LGA, which is the airport that really needs a rail link badly?

JFK is bigger and is farther removed from Manahattan. A subway link to LGA would probably more cost effective than a dedicated rail line.

----

I used Air Train a few months ago and thought about whether or not the tracks could be reworked to allow LIRR trains to use them from Jamaica station to JFK. They would simply close the loop where the AirTrain ran out to Jamaica station and build a new station in JFK.

The obvious problems would be station clearance, curves and car weight for LIRR on the former AirTrain tracks.


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26860 posts, RR: 58
Reply 16, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5950 times:

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 15):
JFK has two rail links, Air Train to Jamaica station AND Howard Beach subway.

I wouldn't call that an airport rail link!!! You have to jump onto a subway line . I have done it many times and its far from a nice experience. Id like to see a dedicated express line from downtown to JFK nonstop with trains designed to take luggage and closer to the terminal buildings.


User currently offlineComorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4896 posts, RR: 16
Reply 17, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5847 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 12):
Quoting Comorin (Reply 9):
It'd be so great to have a nonstop to JFK from Grand Central.

No chance of that without using subway tracks or spending way more than $2 billion. And even then, you would then have 3 links focused on manhattan.

East Side Access will consist of a set of tunnels under the present Amtrak rails on Park Ave, turn at 63rd street and hook up to the rail line in Queens. This will allow the LIRR to come to GCT. There is no reason you couldn't connect to JFK at Jamaica, or extend the link further.

See:

http://www.mta.info/capconstr/esas/image_gallery.htm

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 15):
Quoting Comorin (Reply 9):
Excellent news! JFK on its way to becoming a first-world airport! Free trolleys a la LHR would help too.

Adding another rail link to JFK (making Air Train obsolete) isn't going to help make JFK a world class airport.

Think AMS and LHR - light years ahead in this department.

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 15):
Quoting Comorin (Reply 9):
It'd be so great to have a nonstop to JFK from Grand Central.

Penn Station would make more sense because of the connection that can be made (LIRR/NJT/Amtrak).

It'd be great for me and others to whom getting to Penn is a waste of time and inconvenient. East Side and Midtown folks would like it, like in the old days of the East Side Terminal.


User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5762 times:

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 10):
Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 2):
More airports need direct rail access to the cities they serve.

I don't disagree with that. My boondoggle comment has to do with the cost-overruns that will certainly occur. No doubt, simply to get the money, the cost has already been underestimated.

How many public works projects don't have cost overruns? It's nearly a given that they always lowball in asking and appropriating funding because it would never get through with accurate estimates.

It doesn't change the fact that JFK needs easy mass access to the city. What world city main gateway airport doesn't have a rail link? Not a whole of them, anymore. I fly into EWR when I go to New York specifically for the air train. It makes it super convenient and fast to get into the city. It's cheap, efficient, the way things are supposed to be, and that's what JFK needs also. This is just something that needs to be there.

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 15):
Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 1):
I'm calling pork on this one.

Exactly what it is.

Generally speaking, pork is unnecessary spending. What about a rail link from JFK to Manhattan is unnecessary?



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1536 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5747 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 16):
I wouldn't call that an airport rail link!!!

Well, it's a set of rails that runs right into the airport, from another rail station. If that's not a rail link, I'm not too sure what it would be.  Big grin

Seriously, it is a rail link, albeit the easier, "cheaper" way out of having to build a real dedicated LIRR or AMTRAK extension.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 16):
You have to jump onto a subway line .

Or you could take the LIRR. It isn't Amtrak, but it isn't the Subway either.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 16):
I have done it many times and its far from a nice experience.

I used the LIRR from Penn Station and thought it was a good experience, I'll use it the next time I'm going to New York.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 16):
Id like to see a dedicated express line from downtown to JFK nonstop with trains designed to take luggage and closer to the terminal buildings.

I completely agree. The LIRR should start an "Airporter" service running between Penn Station and Jamaica with cars with more luggage racks. There is already a nonstop LIRR service (Penn Station - Jamaica), though it uses the same rolling stock, and it is an express train that continues elsewhere on Long Island.

Quoting Comorin (Reply 17):
It'd be great for me and others to whom getting to Penn is a waste of time and inconvenient. East Side and Midtown folks would like it, like in the old days of the East Side Terminal.

... or just connect both Penn Station and Grand Central to Kennedy.

Quoting Comorin (Reply 17):
Think AMS and LHR - light years ahead in this department.

Absolutely. I've used the service at AMS, GVA, ZRH and FCO, they are light years ahead of what we have here. BWI's problem is that the rail station is so far removed form the train station. Though I haven't tried AirTrain EWR, it seems to make a lot more sense than some of the other systems they have.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 7):
DCA is probably the most convenient.

Agree 100%. Metrorail got it right putting the station right in DCA. It's too bad that it'll be another two iceages before they agree to build the IAD route.


User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21530 posts, RR: 55
Reply 20, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 5725 times:

I hope that this will be the JFK-Downtown link that is sorely needed. The A train doesn't cut it between Lower Manhattan and JFK.

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 19):
The LIRR should start an "Airporter" service running between Penn Station and Jamaica with cars with more luggage racks.

LIRR and NJTransit should get together and start a JFK--Penn Station-EWR train with dedicated rolling stock.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineN710PS From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1166 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 5598 times:

I think LGA needs it more. I will do anything to put cabbies out of work in this city.


There is plenty of room for Gods animals, right next to the mashed potatoes!
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26860 posts, RR: 58
Reply 22, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 5560 times:

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 19):
Well, it's a set of rails that runs right into the airport, from another rail station. If that's not a rail link, I'm not too sure what it would be.

Was I on the wrong train ??? LOL.... I had to get a monorail type train to the subway station then stand there in the freezing cold to get the connection!!! Not exactly the Heathrow Paddington express LOL..... Also it wasnt very tourist friendly.

Quoting Mir (Reply 20):
LIRR and NJTransit should get together and start a JFK--Penn Station-EWR train with dedicated rolling stock.

-Mir

Great idea . That would be amazing if it happened.


User currently offlineReggaebird From Jamaica, joined Nov 1999, 1176 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 5537 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 7):
Quoting UN_B732 (Reply 6):
I can't think of a US airport with a more convenient ride into the city.

DCA is probably the most convenient.

I think that Boston has the best airport connections. One can take an electrified trolley (called the Silver Line), the subway and commuter boats.


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26860 posts, RR: 58
Reply 24, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks ago) and read 5522 times:

Quoting Reggaebird (Reply 23):
I think that Boston has the best airport connections. One can take an electrified trolley (called the Silver Line), the subway and commuter boats.

If I remember rightly it departs outside the airport arrivals area and goes in these underground tunnels until you get to Boston South Station ?? Then you can connect to Amtrak. I did this last year to get to Providence and it was really fast and easy to use.


25 RJpieces : I call bull**it. Currently JFK and EWR have virtually identical setups with respect to the AirTrain. The only differences are that EWR's AirTrain tak
26 Comorin : Good call! I took a cab to Penn last month (20mts and $18) to catch a NJT train to the so-called Newark Airport Station and got on the AirTrain (the
27 Ikramerica : But would they use it for anything good, or just graft? There has been so much money thrown at that city, and it's still in shambles. You see picture
28 Planeguy727 : JFK, LGA & EWR all have fairly simple access to manhattan. It all about the value an individual places on "time." I have used the NJT & AirTran to EWR
29 Post contains images TeamAmerica : Given that the city has borne most of the cost of the clean up, and the the subsequent costs of ongoing healthcare to the workers from the WTC cleanu
30 GatechAE : While MARTA (metro atlanta rapid transit) gets absolutely no state or federal funding for its grossly inefficient mass transportation system, the city
31 Ly204 : As a New Yorker, I have to say that the options to any of these three airports are generally mixed -- LGA is shortest by car (and you can still find
32 AsstChiefMark : No big deal. That's what the Bush League spends for one week of playing with his soldiers in the sandbox. The rail link is more important.
33 Mir : Something based on CDG's RER connection or the S-Bahn connections in Germany would be better in my mind. -Mir
34 A380US : will it be LIRR or a subway cause both are very helpfull
35 WarRI1 : I have an example to use about overuns, in Rhode Island we had twenty five million federal dollars for a new train station to link our airport with th
36 Bohica : Washington Dulles. IAD is the poster child of lousy ground transportation. There is no rail line there and there will not be one anytime in the near
37 SQ452 : Agreed, you walk out of the terminal maybe 50 meters and there you are at the platform. The platform is literally smack dab next to the terminal buil
38 N353SK : I think that if a truly convenient, efficient, well run train system went from JFK to Manhattan JFK would see a huge increase in domestic leisure traf
39 Post contains images AeroWesty : As I mentioned before, when our light rail link to PDX was built (which ironically opened 9/10/01), it became the most important transportation asset
40 Post contains images Ncelhr : But would New Yorkers be ready to pay the price of the ticket: GBP. 14.50 on the internet ( $ 29 ) GBP. 15.50 at a ticket machine ( $ 31.30 ) GBP. 17
41 SWALoveField : WHAT? "Hey, I live in a hurricane zone below sea level and I'm not going to insure my house against floods." I never wish death on anyone, but proper
42 Apodino : You haven't been to BOS lately. The other poster was refering to the Silver Line, which provides a 1 seat ride into downtown Boston, much of it on de
43 R2rho : Rather than the overpriced Heathrow Express, I think the benchmark should be MAD's cheap, modern and fast subway link into downtown. Best airport lin
44 DiscoverCSG : On the other hand, Metro-North uses Grand Central. That serves Westchester and beyond, including Connecticut. I submit those folks have it as bad as
45 Comorin : As a business traveler, I love the Heathrow Express. It's pricey but it's fast, quiet, comfortable and cheaper than a cab. I use it every other month,
46 LTBEWR : Probably the biggest winners of this will be the construction companies and unions. Of course, it will probably really cost $3-4 Billion when done. I
47 Nycfly75 : Exactly why I keep saying I dont know why everyone thinks LGA is such a wonderful airport. It is closest to the city by car and even then it still ca
48 Post contains images SQ452 : Unfortunately I haven't And I totally forgot the fact that the Silverline goes right to the terminals.
49 PavlovsDog : Unless I'm mistaken this project is about a rail connection to downtown via a new tunnel (or using one of the numerous subway tunnels between Brooklyn
50 Post contains links PHLwok : East Side Access is different from JFK plans: http://www.mta.info/capconstr/esas/index.html Construction is underway. The main goal will be to connect
51 AmtrakGuy : Quick questions -- Is this going to be a heavy rail instead of light rail and subway? Who's suppose to be running the route to JFK from Penn Station?
52 STT757 : Here's the deal on the JFK-Lower Manhattan rail link, the LIRR and JFK Airtrain cannot operate over the same tracks. They are two totally different s
53 Jm017 : I would think LGA needs it more. Why spend money on another rail link to JFK? Rubbish. the setup is the same. Can you ride ONE train from EWR to mid-
54 Sammyk : I thought this was just $2 billion in tax breaks and the actual project is to cost in the $ 6 billion area?
55 STT757 : $6.6 Billion by last reporting, they have to tunnel from the current Terminus of the LIRR line at Atlantic Terminal under down town Brooklyn, Under t
56 Cloudyapple : Forget the rail link to JFK. Spend the money extending the Acela to somewhere else. It'll be far more worthwhile.
57 Isitsafenow : What bothers me is the $$ comes from Washington, you and me, and not Albany. This should be a NY state project not a USA project. Why should somebody
58 Post contains links Mir : Because the state of New York has been subsidizing a lot of other states for some time. For every dollar that New York pays in federal taxes, it only
59 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : originally, the same for me as well; though haven't yet tried the JFK version, and wonder if there's much of a significant difference. ...how civic-m
60 Ushermittwoch : Absolutely! Plus the new terminal is amazing! The light rail in MSP is great, too. 1,50USD (2,00USD during rush hour) to downtown in clean, fast and
61 STT757 : Here's the differences: EWR Airtrain; A.) Smaller Monorail B.) Operates inside of all terminals, conveinent to security screening points C.) takes yo
62 Mir : Also, LIRR has more frequent trains from Jamaica to Manhattan than NJTransit does from EWR. -Mir
63 ThreeIfByAir : So this is really going to happen? I took NJT to EWR, but PATH for a fraction of the price would be awesome, even with the $5.50 for AirTrainEWR. Plu
64 NYC777 : That beats the price of a cab to NYC from JFK.
65 STT757 : Which is why the NY Politicians have prevented the PA from linking EWR and the PATH, they fear the justification for spending $6 Billion Dollar rail
66 Post contains images TeamAmerica : Because the US government pledged $20 billion to help NYC after 9-11. Once that money (it's actually tax breaks, not cash) was pledged, I'd say the p
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