McSteve From Netherlands, joined Jul 2005, 65 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6555 times:
I'm no expert but with this kind of result and growing competion shouldn't they just call it a game and stop. They are losing about a 1000 dollars per passenger with these figures amazing!
Captainsimon From United Kingdom, joined exactly 3 years ago today! , 110 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6479 times:
Quoting McSteve (Reply 2): I'm no expert but with this kind of result and growing competion shouldn't they just call it a game and stop. They are losing about a 1000 dollars per passenger with these figures amazing!
Maybe, maybe not! the board do need some serious talk and regenerate their business plan but there is nothing to say that things need to be turned around.
When new airline start business it takes a while to get straight.
Don't forget that when FR started they were losing millions and came close to shutting shop now they are the most profitable airline in Europe.
ManchesterMAN From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 1111 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6451 times:
I'm a little surprised they aren't doing slightly better as they have some very good fares, particularly from LAX and LAS. I suppose the main issue is that their product isn't really up to scratch (bmi's premium economy compares favourably to maxjet's business class) but then they do price it below competing carriers' business class.
I think they were a little slow getting their cargo operation up and running so they should see an improvement from this side for Q3 and Q4 which will help.
Willyj From United States, joined Oct 2005, 455 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6378 times:
In my opinion Maxjet needs to update their seats so they are more competitive with Silverjet. Their prices are similar, but their hard product is a step below silverjet's.
WorldTraveler From United States, joined Aug 2003, 6760 posts, RR: 30 Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6357 times:
Those are astounding figures. losing more money than you collect in revenue is unsustainable and I find it hard to believe they can become viable fast enough. AA is putting the squeeze on the STN operators and there will undoubtedly be more network carrier coming against these LFCs who want very badly to cut off these notions of transatlantic LFCs before they get started.
CitrusCritter From United States, joined May 2007, 1034 posts, RR: 2 Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6345 times:
Quoting ManchesterMAN (Reply 6): (bmi's premium economy compares favourably to maxjet's business class
I could not agree less. MaxJet is 2x2 seating -- no middle seats. BMI's PE has 2x4x2 seating, as does BA. VS may or may not have 2x2 depending on the plane and configuration. Regardless of service, meals, etc. etc., not having a middle seat is superior in my mind.
UPPERDECKFAN From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 988 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6287 times:
Quoting Laxintl (Reply 5): Well EOS and L'Avion are private and dont have to report earnings
None of this airlines are state-owned, so what do you mean by "private"?
Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 12): I could not agree less. MaxJet is 2x2 seating -- no middle seats. BMI's PE has 2x4x2 seating, as does BA. VS may or may not have 2x2 depending on the plane and configuration
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you're comparing a B757 against B767/777
Jacobin777 From United States, joined Sep 2004, 13323 posts, RR: 69 Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6046 times:
Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 18): Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 17):
..interesting you would make that comment considering DL was just in that seat no more than a few months ago....
Delta never had a negative 100% profit margin
.....but they were still hemorrhaging massive amounts of money at the end of the day....anyway, reading the numbers from the link provided, revenue is improving quite nicely and a lot of the expense was due to fleet acquisition....we'll have a better "feel" as to how MaxJet is doing 10-12 months from now (provided they aren't still in "expansion mode" and adding planes to the fleet)...
CitrusCritter From United States, joined May 2007, 1034 posts, RR: 2 Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6041 times:
Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 14): Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you're comparing a B757 against B767/777
No, MaxJet flies 762s. It's Eos that uses 757s. My comparison for BD was a A330-200, for BA 747 and 777, and for VS both the A346 and B747, all configurations.
ManchesterMAN From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 1111 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6041 times:
Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 12): I could not agree less. MaxJet is 2x2 seating -- no middle seats. BMI's PE has 2x4x2 seating, as does BA. VS may or may not have 2x2 depending on the plane and configuration. Regardless of service, meals, etc. etc., not having a middle seat is superior in my mind.
Incorrect. bmi's PE is 2-2-2 on the A330 with a 49" pitch and 21" seat width (the seats they use are actually the old business class seats). The first reconfigured aircraft is in service between MAN and ORD now and the other 2 aircraft will be refitted by the end of the month. FYI the new business class features a nice 80" pitch and 26" width.
Sounds like a nice improvement. How's their pricing versus MaxJet? And what does premium economy get you, if anything, in terms of lounge access etc. on BD?
ManchesterMAN From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 1111 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5992 times:
Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 22): Sounds like a nice improvement. How's their pricing versus MaxJet? And what does premium economy get you, if anything, in terms of lounge access etc. on BD?
The seat may be business class but the service is economy. They offer pre-flight drinks, free booze, seperate check-in desks and a few other small extras but that is about it. I don't think long haul PE gets you lounge access though unless you are bmi silver or gold or Star gold. As for pricing there doesn't seem to be much difference over the old seats at the moment but I'm sure as word gets out and they see increasing demand then prices will rise. They have had some very good PE sales between MAN and ORD/BGI/ANU recently with return flights in the £500 range but these aren't available any more.
Jacob also looks for a chance to throw a punch at DL, even if it has no basis in fact. DL's worse net loss was no more than -20% - and on an operating basis, DL was profitable for many of the years it reported huge net losses because of accounting provisions. Young companies can't take those kind of charges because they don't have that much on their balance sheets to take charges against.
The losses shown above are bleeding losses that can only be described as major cash burning exercises.
Laxintl From United States, joined May 2000, 12127 posts, RR: 22 Reply 25, posted (2 years 2 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5791 times:
Keep in mind this 6 month loss is in addition to $79.2 mil loss in 2006 and $29.9mil in losses for 2005 that MAXjet posted.
While the carrier continues to put on a cheerful spin on things, its breakeven load factor would be 100% even with a near doubling of yields, something that is not happening while the carrier continues to offer its ~$700-800 fares.
To put further pressure on things, 2nd half fuel cost are projected to be 10% greater then the first half, while the carrier will receives zero added income for charter activity having withdrawn from such also.
While negative operating margins are nothing new to the airline business, continued operations where it cost $2 to provide a seat that only garners $1 in revenue cannot last forever. Its one thing to have a negative -5% or even -10% operating margins, but having a -117% margin is beyond bad.
p.s. - only other airline in recent years that I can remember with such poor margins was FLYi - Independence Air.
[Edited 2007-09-24 02:45:36]
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
26 Jacobin777: I'm glad you noticed.. ..but you know that DL was hemorrhaging money for a few years post 9-11.... ..you can't say it was accounting riff-raff.....re
27 RDUDDJI: So if they had a 100% LF, they'd need about $1270 per pax just to break even. With fuel costs rising, I don't see much of a future for them with those
28 LAX20531: I saw this yesterday and read the entire release with great interest. It appears the problems still exist in IAD with many canceled and delayed flight
29 VictorKilo: The press release gives RASM figures, but if you calculate the CASM figures from the press release, it sure doesn't seem like MAXjet can make it as an
30 ThePRGuy: My Dad flew with MaxJet last month, and was very unimpressed. He's not a travel snob, but even he said bmi's longhaul premium cabins are way better, a
31 Orion737: I dont like the look of their on time departure record!!! Especially for a premium carrier, it seems appalling, almost worse than a charter airline. I
32 Mutu: Well I dont suppose these numbers come as any surprise for a relatively young business operating a relatively novel business model. I am also pretty s
33 EXAAUADL: This kinda shows that they cant make money even with free fuel.
34 Miamiair: They are in the process of securing a 767-300 now. As for the last two airplanes that were added to the fleet, they came out of Alitalia looking like
35 Orion737: I felt sure they must be having 'issues' with the dispatch reliability with their aircraft looking at their on time performance record. This hardly is
36 LAX20531: I completely agree. Just took a look at their website flight status, as today is their "heavy day" where all a/c should be used to fly IAD, JFK, LAS,
37 Aerofan: Ah give them a break. perhaps things will turn around in the last quarter
38 N77014: It's time for a bold advertising move... Challenge all TATL J-class customers to a satisfying flight or money refunded. If they choose to stay then of
39 Laxintl: EOS did something similar during its start up. Only problem for MAXjet is that its product is far from todays business class offerings of carriers li
40 WorldTraveler: at the expense of the investors. They will step up soon and say they won't be drained dry while MaxJet tries to figure out how to run an airline. I d
41 StarGoldLHR: I work with a lot of people in different companies across the city and canary wharf. The impression I get from most people is pretty interesting... th
42 Flighty: My goodness, they need way more than 13 cent RASM! They are aiming for 30 cent RASM and they're failing miserably to get it. Advertising would help a
43 747fan: MaxJet's seats are very similar to the business class seats that TWA had 10-15 years ago in Trans World One. I don't know what MAXjet's seats are lik
44 WorldTraveler: very true. business people do not voluntarily choose lower cost alternatives; they only do it when they are forced to do so. No one wants to be told
45 ThirteenRight: No they're not. MAXjet and Eos are similar in concept, but are much different in execution. MAXjet is meant to be affordable business class whereas E
46 Cloudboy: When did BMI put in wider premium economy seats? Can't think of many premium economy offerings - just Virgin and BA. And their prices are pretty much
47 StarGoldLHR: I disagree, I think they did their advertising work very well here in London, in the "City" and in "Canary Wharf" everyone Ive worked with has heard
48 Jacobin777: ...while frequency and possibly reliability might be a problem, EOS has a "true" 1st class in every sense of the word...and SilverJet's service isn't
50 AF022: Are they going to phase out their B762s? Was this the problem with the delays?
51 N905TW: Interesting, since one of the aircraft - N260MY was formerly N650TW. Are these the seats you remember? Trans World One rolled out in Spring of 1995.
52 VV701: Yes. And BA flies 763s. So why do you compare a MaxJet 762 with a BA 744? If you compare it with a BA 763 you will find that World Traveller Plus - B
53 N77014: Tthe kind of product most of their target audience is already flying on the legacy carriers anyway, without losing lounge access and status.
54 LACA773: I know it's probably a little early to ask, but how's MAX doing out of LAX since they started? LACA773
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