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AA Posibility Of LON-St Louis?  
User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 1 month 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3656 times:

TWA did it for so many years to LGW. I know AA dropped it but now they are refocusing on long haul routes, any chance of this route coming back? It seems a major US city not to have a LON connection.

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1545 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 month 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3626 times:

With the reorganization of the London route network, aircraft shortages and an uncertain market, it won't be for awhile.

User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3707 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 month 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3526 times:

Quoting Orion737 (Thread starter):
TWA did it for so many years to LGW. I know AA dropped it but now they are refocusing on long haul routes, any chance of this route coming back? It seems a major US city not to have a LON connection.

It won't happen without the State of MO, the city of St. Louis, and/or a major local company subsidizing a part of it ala GSK and RDU. I don't see it happening anytime soon, STL-LGW really struggled the last years of its existance, especially during the winter. The reality is, is its quite redundant with DFW being 550 miles away and ORD only being 250 miles away.



PHX based
User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 month 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3490 times:

Surprisingly then that TWA continued with the route to LGW for many, many years. In fact, it was their last remaining route to the UK.

Also why doesnt AA see the potential of feeding to this city and their other flights out of STL, much the same way TWA did.


User currently offlineMoMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1054 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 month 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3449 times:

Quoting 777STL (Reply 2):
It won't happen without the State of MO, the city of St. Louis, and/or a major local company subsidizing a part of it ala GSK and RDU. I don't see it happening anytime soon, STL-LGW really struggled the last years of its existance, especially during the winter. The reality is, is its quite redundant with DFW being 550 miles away and ORD only being 250 miles away.

There's a lot of chatter recently about exactly that - state subsidies to AA to provide a LON flight. I really believe it will happen in 2008/2009 that STL will again see a LGW flight, and who knows it could get LHR, but probably not. STN has also been mentioned as AA was needing a launching point for that airport IIRC. CDG is probably out of the question for now.

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 3):
Also why doesnt AA see the potential of feeding to this city and their other flights out of STL, much the same way TWA did.

AA has optimized their STL operation and adding more flights there isn't a high priority, especially given their shortage of aircraft and other, better opportunities. It will happen again one day and I suspect it will be sooner rather than later, but who really knows?



AA Platinum Member - American Airlines Forever
User currently offlineJetJeanes From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1431 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 month 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3396 times:

It would be nice to see someone come in and make stl a hub again thats worthwhile,but most mainline carriers have hubs already in place with in a certain radius.. I cant think of anyone off hand that could pounce on it like twa did.


i can see for 80 miles
User currently offlineMoMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1054 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 month 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3376 times:

Quoting JetJeanes (Reply 5):
It would be nice to see someone come in and make stl a hub again thats worthwhile,but most mainline carriers have hubs already in place with in a certain radius.. I cant think of anyone off hand that could pounce on it like twa did.

Not gonna happen. One, as you pointed out there just isn't another legacy carrier that needs a large hub. Two, AA is a dominant player with WN co-existing well. FL is picking up some here and there, and while there is some debate as to what extent AA would defend STL is it came under full competitive attack, I tend to believe that STL plays an important role in the AA network and would be defended quite strongly. STL is like the old TWA 717s, they didn't look too great when they were on property, but once they were gone AA was sorry  Wink



AA Platinum Member - American Airlines Forever
User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3707 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 month 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3334 times:

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 3):
Surprisingly then that TWA continued with the route to LGW for many, many years. In fact, it was their last remaining route to the UK.

I think if AA put some effort into it, while backed by some deep pockets, the route could do well. As MoMan noted, AA didn't really give the route a chance, AA absorbed TW and most if not all existing ex-TW routes became bastard stepchildren to their AA counterparts.

From an airplane geek standpoint, it'd be great to see a STL-LON route again. It would most certainly mark the return of scheduled 767 service.



PHX based
User currently offlineLambertMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2078 posts, RR: 36
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 month 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3334 times:

Rest assured it won't happen under the current regime.

I think they'd rather go back to flying MD-11's than giving St. Louis any attention....


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33043 posts, RR: 71
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 month 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3207 times:

STL-LGW will not come. Never.

I would not rule out St. Louis-Heathrow, but it is far, far down the priority list, because when AA gets more Heathrow slots, they are going to go to adding more Heathrow flights to Miami, JFK, and Dallas. I would not rule out St. Louis-Heathrow in the long-term future.



a.
User currently offlineB752OS From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1322 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 month 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3169 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
I would not rule out St. Louis-Heathrow, but it is far, far down the priority list, because when AA gets more Heathrow slots, they are going to go to adding more Heathrow flights to Miami, JFK, and Dallas. I would not rule out St. Louis-Heathrow in the long-term future.

Are the JFK flights to fend off DL? How well do you think AA wil do against DL in JFK with DL having a big international expansion.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33043 posts, RR: 71
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 month 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3155 times:

Quoting B752OS (Reply 10):
How well do you think AA wil do against DL in JFK with DL having a big international expansion.

AA is planning a little expansion of their own at JFK (nothing to the extent of DL, but there will be significant expansion of JFK-Europe on AA in the next three years, nonetheless). AA also has far superior terminal facilities at JFK.

With Heathrow opening up, AA is of course going to want to provide as much a frequency advantage on the JFK-LON route as they can. Unfortunately, they will be reducing JFK-LHR to 5x daily this spring because they were unable to acquire a slot from Luxair for DFW-LHR.



a.
User currently offlineAAJFKSJUBKLYN From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 911 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 month 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2789 times:

I would bet my money on AA eventually surpassing DL at JFK. If and when DL begins their terminal renovations or whatever the scope of their program will be for JFK, they are going to loose space without a doubt. AA offers so much more at JFK with the new Terminal in place. Arpey is a NY'er by birth and seems to have it in him to make it a very special place.

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33043 posts, RR: 71
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 month 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2741 times:

Quoting AAJFKSJUBKLYN (Reply 12):
I would bet my money on AA eventually surpassing DL at JFK.

AA is already larger at JFK than Delta.



a.
User currently offlineB752OS From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1322 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 month 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2724 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
Quoting AAJFKSJUBKLYN (Reply 12):
I would bet my money on AA eventually surpassing DL at JFK.

AA is already larger at JFK than Delta.

Well how about Latin America. If DL starts a huge push as part of their big announcement, could AA be in trouble as being the largest carrier to the region? Could ATL surpass MIA as the largest U.S. gateway to Latin America?


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33043 posts, RR: 71
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 month 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2715 times:

Quoting B752OS (Reply 14):
If DL starts a huge push as part of their big announcement, could AA be in trouble as being the largest carrier to the region? Could ATL surpass MIA as the largest U.S. gateway to Latin America?

No, that is pretty laughable. While Delta will be a very, very strong number two, they will be nowhere near to being number one in the region. Atlanta cannot surpass Miami has the largest U.S. gateway to Latin America. Even if, hypothetically, Delta were to surpass American in operations to the region, Miami has dozens and dozens of Latin American airlines, while Atlanta has zero. Delta is nowhere near AA's size in the region. This winter American Airlines will have the same amount of daily flights between Miami and Sao Paulo than Delta will have between Atlanta/JFK and all of Brazil.

[Edited 2007-09-24 18:04:14]


a.
User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3707 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 month 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2707 times:

Quoting B752OS (Reply 14):
Well how about Latin America. If DL starts a huge push as part of their big announcement, could AA be in trouble as being the largest carrier to the region? Could ATL surpass MIA as the largest U.S. gateway to Latin America?

Doubtful. DL is only half the size that AA is now in Latin America. I believe DL would have to poach a substantial number of current AA customers for this to work.



PHX based
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 month 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2653 times:

Quoting AAJFKSJUBKLYN (Reply 12):
I would bet my money on AA eventually surpassing DL at JFK.

...at what?

Routes? Not likely
Capacity? They've long since been larger than DL at JFK.


User currently offlineSkyyMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 month 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2588 times:

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 3):
Also why doesnt AA see the potential of feeding to this city and their other flights out of STL, much the same way TWA did.

IMO, St. Louis is not particularly high on AA's list pf priorities when it comes to growth, especially mainline growth, and specifically international growth. As pointed out, they are only 250 miles from O'Hare which has 5 current nonstops to LHR, and I think that number is 6 in the summer. Even though open skies will theoretically open up LHR, it will still be slot constrained, and I think AA will use those LHR slots for bigger cities and hubs. STL is in a bad place geographically for AA. It will never regain the prominence as a hub as it once was under TW, at least not by AA, and doubtfully anyone. I'm actually surprised they are growing it at all, even though most added service appears to be Eagle.


User currently offlineGilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 3038 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 month 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2582 times:

I think the chances of a London to St Louis service with American are almost NIL!

They announced earlier this year the introduction of their new STN-JFK service, and I would have thought the starting of this service was a bit of a gamble given the unpredictable nature of flights launched from other London airports to the USA other than LHR... This service is due to go double daily, next summer...

What I am trying to point out is, that if they are willing to launch STN-JFK on a route already saturated with flights between London and New York, they must have more hope than being the sole operator on STL-LON.

If a 757 had the legs, this would be the only chance of the route starting up!


User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4927 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 month 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2480 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11):
Unfortunately, they will be reducing JFK-LHR to 5x daily this spring because they were unable to acquire a slot from Luxair for DFW-LHR.

Do you know got the slot instead?



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineAAJFKSJUBKLYN From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 911 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 month 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2460 times:

To clarify my earlier post...I meant International portfolio....destinations.

User currently offlineCkfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5273 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 month 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2374 times:

The longer it takes ORD to complete its expansion, the better the chances that AA will add flights at STL. Even though the 3rd east-west runway is supposed to open in Q4 of 2008, that will allow AA to only increase operations by 40 to 50 departures a day.

No one knows when the 4th east-west runway will open, which is the runway that will truly allow AA, and UA, to start increasing operations substantially. If the continuing litigation keeps the 4th runway from opening until 2011 or later, AA would probably seriously think of increasing operations at STL, because ORD will remain focused on O&D traffic.

Whether that means that STL will gain any international service remains to be seen. I think AA will still set its schedule to move European traffic through ORD, DFW, JFK, and to a lesser extent, MIA


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33043 posts, RR: 71
Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 month 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2360 times:

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 22):
I think AA will still set its schedule to move European traffic through ORD, DFW, JFK, and to a lesser extent, MIA

MIA will see much more European growth than DFW, although only JFK will see European traffic growth in the near future, other than Miami-Milan possibly launching next winter.



a.
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