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New Boeing 747 And 787 For British Airways?  
User currently offlineT773ER From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 278 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 30918 times:

"British Airways could announce a possible purchase of B-787s and B-747s within two weeks. This was stated last Friday on behalf of Boeing manager Jim Haas during his visit to the Alenia Aeronautica plant in Grottaglie, southern Italy."

"Haas also declared that for the B-787 the bookings list is closed until 2013, thus a carrier that wanted to place an order could do so only as of 2014."

Rest of article here: http://www.avionews.com/index.php?co...1079648&pagina_chiamante=index.php


"Fixed fortifications are monuments to the stupidity of man."
184 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineB7X7 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2007, 43 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 30820 times:

He says "Possible purchase" which says to me that Boeing does not know where it is going either (or will not publicly state).

Possible could mean it could go to Airbus

I think it could go Boeing, but it is really to close to call.


User currently offlineBY738 From Tonga, joined Sep 2000, 2293 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 30705 times:

Quoting T773ER (Thread starter):
British Airways could announce

...and "could announce " Airbus. I certainly wouldnt read too much into that.


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 30521 times:

I think Boeing and Airbus sales teams have a good idea on what has been decided.

On the other hand once I was in a purchasing team and we apparently played out the two remaining contenders so well both were in shock to be selected / disqualified. I still remember the winners salesman frozen face when we said he had the deal (if they gave us a discount of x%). Same thing on the other side, only really believed they were ditched (after many yrs) when I told them later face to face.

If BA negotiators play it well, nobody is 100% sure at this moment & still feeling forced to do last minute incentives..

[Edited 2007-09-24 17:57:34]

User currently onlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5747 posts, RR: 47
Reply 4, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 30465 times:

Quoting B7X7 (Reply 1):
Possible could mean it could go to Airbus

I think it could go Boeing, but it is really to close to call.



Quoting BY738 (Reply 2):
...and "could announce " Airbus. I certainly wouldnt read too much into that.

However the rumor mills have been consistently saying that BA is going with the 748I and the 787. I think that a Boeing exec wouldn't have said the things he said in Italy if there wasn't a deal done already with BA. I think it looks extremely good for the 748I and the 787 to be bought by BA given this information.



That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 30215 times:

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 4):
However the rumor mills have been consistently saying that BA is going with the 748I

Trace them back. Thin indications by questionable sources IMO.

However I think many are convinced the 787 is a better 767 replacement then the A350..



for this round 787+A380 as my best guess, XWB & 747-8: maybe later..


User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10679 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 30073 times:

Quoting Keesje (Reply 5):
However I think many are convinced the 787 is a better 767 replacement then the A350..

The 787 is a better 767 replacement than the larger A350, and a fine 777 replacement, too. BA can´t get 787s before 2013 (unless some slots are freed by airlines changing their mind). 2013-15 is a perfect time to replace the aging 777s (BA has some of the oldest 777s around), but a bit late to replace the then really old 767s.

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 4):
However the rumor mills have been consistently saying that BA is going with the 748I and the 787.

Hmm, there were many words recently BA would get A380s. Personally I hope BA goes the Lufthansa way and orders A380s AND 748Is.


User currently offlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 5025 posts, RR: 44
Reply 7, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 30073 times:

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 4):
the rumor mills have been consistently saying that BA is going with the 748I and the 787

No they haven't. I've only seen one person repeatedly say that here, and that was you.


User currently offlineBmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2259 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 30073 times:

I'm hoping BA will order the 748I as the program needs a major order announcement it any other airlines are going to consider it. Most airlines flying the 747 are leaning towards the A380 or the 773ER. The 787 will look good in BA colors too.


The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
User currently offlineColumbia107 From Gibraltar, joined Aug 2004, 358 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 30011 times:

Is the market getting a whiff of success for Boeing?

Its share price has risen by some US$6 during the last week.

Admittedly, it might be the effects of the 50 basis points drop in the US Dollar lending rate.

Oh by the way, if BA finally opts for the 787, do the chances of a future XWB purchase diminish?

I say this as they can go for the 787-10 which translates into commonality of equipment.

Tops this with a weaker dollar and .......................



In God we trust
User currently offlineTavong From Colombia, joined Jul 2001, 835 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 29932 times:

No matter what, BA is in a exremely good negotiation place that no matter if they go A or B ( i hope they go B) they´ll get a sweet, very sweet deal.

That´s the only thing i can say at this point. If they go A or B, there are too many threads about it and the conclusion is the same. Nobody knows.  biggrin 

Gus
SKBO



Colombian coffee, the best...take a cup and you will see how delicious it is.
User currently offlineCaminito From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 29527 times:

Quoting T773ER (Thread starter):
This was stated last Friday on behalf of Boeing manager Jim Haas



Quoting T773ER (Thread starter):
"British Airways could announce a possible purchase of B-787s and B-747s within two weeks



Quoting T773ER (Thread starter):
"Haas also declared that for the B-787 the bookings list is closed until 2013

Unfortunately, each time more so, publications as Avionews and Flight global seem to convert themselves in propagators of unsupported rumors.
What means "on behalf of...." ?!. This seems that Avionews heard it through another or even a chain of other person who did so, so they do not know what he really said. This refers both to the BA purchase and the bookings available, which obviously depend how much production will increase from 2010 on, an issue Boeing repeatedly declared to be studying!

By the way: even if Airbus complies with an EIS date 2013, given their order book, any new customer for the A350 would have to wait until
2016-7, at least.

See also Reuters article "PREVIEW-BA order seen pivotal for superjumbo and newest 747"
http://int1.fp.sandpiper.net/reuters...0070910/TodayTop10BestSelling2.gif


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21505 posts, RR: 60
Reply 12, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 29326 times:

Quoting Keesje (Reply 5):
Trace them back. Thin indications by questionable sources IMO.

Miracles of miracles, I agree with Keesje.

Quoting Keesje (Reply 5):
for this round 787+A380 as my best guess, XWB & 747-8: maybe later..

And again! I feel so dirty, I need a shower...  Wink



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently onlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5747 posts, RR: 47
Reply 13, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 29225 times:

Quoting Columbia107 (Reply 9):
Admittedly, it might be the effects of the 50 basis points drop in the US Dollar lending rate.

I think you're spot on!



That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineCarls From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 522 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 28578 times:

A friend of mine who work internally in BA told me that they already made a decision, and according to him BA will go with
15 A380
26 787-800
30 A350-1000
15 A350-900

It looks very conservative, but sound like a good combination. Only time will tell us.

[Edited 2007-09-24 19:53:01]

User currently offlineTeamAmerica From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 1761 posts, RR: 23
Reply 15, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 28483 times:

Quoting Keesje (Reply 3):
If BA negotiators play it well, nobody is 100% sure at this moment & still feeling forced to do last minute incentives..

If this decision really is going down to the last minute, I would take note of the falling dollar and rising Euro.
BA's finances are tight, and the weak dollar is an advantage to Boeing. dollarsign  down  fever 



Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
User currently offlineInsiderinfo From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2007, 81 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 28348 times:

Quoting Columbia107 (Reply 9):
Oh by the way, if BA finally opts for the 787, do the chances of a future XWB purchase diminish?

Yes...i'd say so..

did BA ever go for the 777 and A340...nope

did BA ever go for the 767 and the A330....nope..

did they ever go for the 757/737 and A321 at the same time....nope...rather planned to replace the families with A321 for next gen replacement...

It's 777/787....OR.not and a350.....


User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4316 posts, RR: 28
Reply 17, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 28305 times:

Quoting Carls (Reply 14):
A friend of mine who work internally in BA told me that they already made a decision, and according to him BA will go with
15 A380
26 787-800
30 A350-1000
15 A350-900

The fact that there are no 748i's in that list tells me the source is dubious. I think BA will, like LH, go for the A380 AND the 748. They have shed loads of 744's, and while some will be replaced with A380's and others with A350-1000's, there are going to be plenty that will need to be replaced/augmented with 748's.



I'm not a racist...I hate Biden, too.
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21505 posts, RR: 60
Reply 18, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 28170 times:

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 17):
The fact that there are no 748i's in that list tells me the source is dubious. I think BA will, like LH, go for the A380 AND the 748.

They have repeatedly said they would not do so with this order. This does not preclude a future order.

Quoting Carls (Reply 14):
A friend of mine who work internally in BA told me that they already made a decision, and according

As for that order, I do not see the rush for BA to place such a large A350-1000, considering the plane won't be available for 8-9 years. If anything you would see an order for A350-900 with OPTIONS for more A350s. Nor do I see them ordering more A350-1000 than A350-900 at this point. Thus if your friend is likely reporting a rumor he heard from the inside, not any actual decision.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineDL767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 28116 times:

i can see a 748 and 787 order. BA is getting more into p2p travel under the open skies act and the 787 is perfect for that. I could also see a medium sized 777(maybe -300) as a filler until 787 can arrive

User currently offlineBY738 From Tonga, joined Sep 2000, 2293 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 27957 times:

I cant beleive yet another post on this is creating so much interest.....just wait and see. Noone knows....in here anyway.

User currently offlineBWIA 772 From Barbados, joined May 2002, 2200 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 27865 times:

That doesnt mean we cannot speculate Big grin


Eagles Soar!
User currently offlineHB88 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 816 posts, RR: 31
Reply 22, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 27771 times:

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 8):
I'm hoping BA will order the 748I as the program needs a major order announcement it any other airlines are going to consider it. Most airlines flying the 747 are leaning towards the A380 or the 773ER. The 787 will look good in BA colors too.

Let's hope that the carriers don't then get a whiff of Mcnerneys comment saying that the 748i is a "747 re-do"!  Wink

(see http://leeham.net/filelib/ScottsColumn091807.pdf)

Personally, I'd prefer to see BA order the A380 given how it offers a few more possibilities in the way of pax comfort even in cattle-class.

I also wonder where the abandon point is for Boeing on the 748i project is if they don't get more carriers on board. Does anyone have a credible figure for break-even on the project?


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12134 posts, RR: 51
Reply 23, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 27740 times:

Quoting Carls (Reply 14):
A friend of mine who work internally in BA told me that they already made a decision, and according to him BA will go with
15 A380
26 787-800
30 A350-1000
15 A350-900

I have a friend who knows nothing about airlines or airplanes. He thinks BA will order:
A-330
A-340
A-350
A-380
B-737
B-747
B-777
B-787

LOL


User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30884 posts, RR: 86
Reply 24, posted (6 years 11 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 27229 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Even if BA has signed a purchase agreement with Boeing, no Boeing executive is going to leak it prior to BA announcing.

One, it's not Boeing's style. And two, after the QR 777 bru-ha-ha, even if it wasn't their style, they would make it so after that.  Smile


25 SJCRRPAX : I would think that with $1.41 = 1 Euro, that a 748i that uses old American parts might be looking pretty sweet right now. Just my opinion.
26 BY738 : No but 120 posts on the previous thread was more than enough....
27 Zvezda : Airbus and Boeing are both sharpening their pencils. BA have already decided on their preference and how much their second choice will have to beat th
28 Express1 : Speculation is no prove , the regional announcement will be, so lets wait for that announcement then we will all know what BA will order. dave
29 Post contains images Stitch : Heck, with the British Pound worth $2 US, I expect the 747-8I and the 787 are looking mighty sweet right now. Mind you, Airbus prices in USD, as well
30 RayChuang : I think the BA order will at least comprise of circa 15 A380-800's and 20-25 747-8I's. Interestingly, I think BA will NOT assign the A388 to the LHR-J
31 Sh0rtybr0wn : Theres no reason for BA NOT to get the A380. If they can fill their 747s now, then in the future, they'll be able to fill the A380s, with the predicte
32 BoeingFever777 : Way to many... 748i and 787 is a definite along with 6-10 A380's. We will know around Oct. 3rd.
33 Ikramerica : I agree. They could be using more 744s now instead of some 772s if they really wanted to consolidate. You might, might see on A380 a day, but why go
34 Blsbls99 : BA is not a prestige airline...they are a profit driven airline. If they were a prestige airline, we would still see Concorde in the skies. The luxur
35 Post contains images Flysherwood : The old saying goes "... in for a penny, in for a pound...". Airbus has so much invested in the A380 that I doubt that they will let an order be lost
36 Post contains images CHRISBA777ER : I'll have a little bet with you that BA order more than 10 A388s. Ooh hold on there cowboy - are you sure about that?
37 TeamAmerica : The situation for Boeing is much the same. Airbus has no advantage in desire for this order. More important, if comments from the Airbus board are to
38 Caribbean484 : Well as some say we have to wait till Oct 3. And like my friend BWIA772 we can speculate till then lol. But I stand by my 748i and 787 prediction.
39 Post contains images Iwok : Very well said, and knowing the English expertise at negotiations, I'd say this is still wide open from the manufacturer's perspective. An internal d
40 Glideslope : Agree completely. I see a very nice 748i order coming. I'm not sure about the 787. Could be a split with the 350. I say no 380 at this time.
41 Post contains images Flysherwood : Fair enough, you make a good point.
42 Post contains images SA7700 : So what are you saying? That the amenities provided on an A380 can not be provided on a B748? Luxury found on a plane, depends on how much money an a
43 Post contains images SJCRRPAX : Every company including Airbus has a bottom line that they will not go under. I work for a semiconductor company and we tell customers to go take a h
44 Phishphan70 : ever since LH ordered both the 380 and 748, i have had a feeling we'd see BA do something similar. LHR is a HUGE spot for international traffic, and
45 ERAUgrad02 : Can someone dress up a 747-8i in BA scheme like someone did with the A380?
46 BWIA 772 : I guess so.. but for me this it is one of the cool things about airliners.net
47 SkyTaxi : ...but Airbus builds their planes using the Euro.
48 Post contains images PlymSpotter : I'm fairly sure there are those who know for sure on here, but are not going to say a word for their job's sake. As it is, all we get is an A vs B wa
49 Caminito : Not so, at least not from the companies perspective. If (hypothetically?) Airbus thinks that not getting an order from BA would kill the A380 program
50 Post contains links and images Stitch : Combo by Martin Aves from a template by Martin Aves. Photo hosted by Modified Airliners.net
51 Post contains links Richard28 : the answer is hedging http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedging...ign_Exchange_Risk.2C_or_FX_Risk.29
52 StarGoldLHR : Generally in most industries I work in... If a sales man jumps the gun, brags about an order that has not yet been announced by the customer... usuall
53 Caminito : Read my Reply 11, where I between other wrote: "Unfortunately, each time more so, publications as Avionews and Flight global seem to convert themselv
54 Carls : I don't think BA will order the 748. They just don't need it now. Actually, I seriously believe that even Lufthansa will switch their passenger order
55 SkyGazer : That's quite a bizzare comment. BA have ~50 744s, some of them a decade or so old and needing replacement in the next few years. What do you suppose
56 StarGoldLHR : I possibly agree.. I never quite understood why LH would have ordered the 748 and the A380...480 to 550 seats isnt that big a deal in the big scheme
57 KrisYYZ : IMO BA's order will have a significant impact on the aviation industry. The B748-I is not doing that well, after all it is a redesign of a redesigned
58 Blsbls99 : I thought the A380 had less cargo hold than the 748?
59 Gemuser : Really? Which ones? And why can't they handle A380s when they already handle B744s? Gemuser
60 DL767captain : many airports need to be strengthened and markers changed to allow the larger and heavier A380 to taxi and move around. which probably means Boeing i
61 Caminito : Virtually all of them which are not willing to spend many ten millions dollars to upgrade their facilities. I am sure other more knowledgeable a-nett
62 Post contains images Ikramerica : It does, once you take into account passenger baggage. But I guess if you take out 70 pax, then you can put in more payload in the hold? Then again,
63 Aleksandar : It would surprise me if BA doesn't order 787 and 748s. As for A350 and A380, it remains to be seen.
64 Phishphan70 : the 748 seems more like a regular aircraft than the gigantic 380. some routes need a giant because demand is so high and we'll still see multiple dai
65 Post contains images Baroque : You might want to check the runway loading Cam. But it definitely has long wings and two decks. Not sure what "between other" means so it is difficul
66 WingedMigrator : (a) there is a latent assumption that the 748I will not require any airport improvements. It is 10% heavier than a 744, has 6% greater wingspan than
67 Gemuser : You all might want to check out the A380 Airport Comparability manual on airbus.com. The A380 requires LESS pavement strength than the B744 & B773 &
68 Caminito : As several airports are upgrading their runways, I assume this is not because of the static load, but the max.asymetric landing impact. Between other
69 Gemuser : NONE of this is worse on the A380 than it is on the B744, B773 or A346. There may be some specific location problems, such as blocking adjacent gates
70 Baroque : Gemuser has set it out better than I could. I am not sure how the lower average wheel loading is going to give you more trouble with an asymmetric la
71 Post contains images Zvezda : You're right that there is a latent assumption among some here that the 747-8I will be able to operate from every airport at which the 747-400 can op
72 SA7700 : At the top of my head: EZE GRU LOS SEA BOS?? please correct me if I am wrong Taxiways and runways have to be widened. Oversized baggage carousels hav
73 Zvezda : Taxiways often must widened or moved, but runways don't have be widened (perhaps moved though). No, a WhaleJet can operate with a single airbridge th
74 Columba : Interesting does this quote mean that apart from BA also AF-KLM and LH are considering a 747-8I / 787 combo. LH already has the 747-8 on order, I can
75 Columba : So what ? What is the 737NG ? You could not say this was not a succesful aircraft even if it is the third incarnation of an aircraft developed in the
76 Abba : Airplanes are hugely international products with parts from all over the globe. Most of it is (likely) traded in US$. And as assembly in the US is pa
77 GBan : Assuming that the Euro value will be even higher at time of delivery. Is that certain?
78 Post contains links Theginge : BA's CEO stated last week that BA could order Airbus and Boeing. http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...l-fleet-decision-in-two-weeks.html I think the
79 Parapente : I cannot help feeling that the key statements have already been made. This thread started with Boeing unable to contain themselves about the "soon/pos
80 Columba : Maybe the switch to A380's style nose for the A350XWB announced last week has something to do with this order. It would offer more commonality for air
81 VV701 : Yes. The "final" decision has to be made by the Commercial Director. Then it needs the blessing of the CFO. It then needs to be approved and endorsed
82 Parapente : "Maybe the switch to A380's style nose for the A350XWB announced last week has something to do with this order. It would offer more commonality for ai
83 CHRISBA777ER : A magnificent post. Some sense being spoken at last!
84 Airways45 : I'll place my bet on BA ordering maybe 25 or so 787s (ideal size as 767s replacements, and A350 is too big for this replacement), and, perhaps up to 1
85 Carls : No, they will replace them with 15 firm A380 and 10 Commitment. I know all the A.Net "airlines management" will start saying that this is not going t
86 Jonathan-l : It is the myths of all myths that the airport infrastructure is a showstopper for airlines. Airports are building bigger terminals, bigger customs ar
87 Carls : I thought the A380 was certified to use 45m wide runways same sizes that the 747 works. So let me see, Boeing can give the 747 away because it is an
88 Post contains images Brilondon : And that's half the fun on here to see speculation and supposition and innuendo.
89 Post contains images Columba : “Our order will be made up of either Boeing or Airbus, or Boeing and Airbus aircraft. The aircraft will have two decks, or one deck, or one and half
90 Stitch : Thank you, VV701, for an excellent and reasoned post. So I think we're looking at a mixed 747-8I and 787 order. Why? Because BA wants to replace their
91 Columba : There was news on this board a few weeks ago that BA could get earlier delivery slots, if I recall correctly deferred from Ethiad.
92 Post contains links Keesje : I think the A380 is proven compared to the 747-8i. The 747-8i will fly in a few years with new wings, engines, FbW, fuselage lenght, cabin interior a
93 CHRISBA777ER : I think EY only had two airframes booked though. Were the FX slots reallocated?
94 Stitch : At best, that is four birds, which is insufficient to replace 20 744s. Also, those four birds are test-frames and BA might not want to start with tho
95 Sh0rtybr0wn : If the A350 continues to garner orders, and they wait as long as you suggest, they wont receive their A350s until 2020. The time for BA to order A350
96 TeamAmerica : I agree. A B748i order now makes great sense, and they leave open the option of buying the A388 later. 5% over 5 years would be closer to 28% Keesje.
97 JAAlbert : I thought BA had backed away from this statement.
98 Keesje : I think you have a point here. While we all know this order will be for replacing a limited fleet only now, I guess BA will take a pile of options to
99 Theginge : BA will be able to get 787's before that if they order them. Airline manufacturers would be stupid not to leave some slack in the production lines fo
100 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ...that is how SFO will operate when (if) an A380 comes to SFO.....
101 Parapente : In terms of when BA get the 787 (if they order it). I thought that airlines were offered the opportunity to put down small deposits that tied up poten
102 Addrenaline : BA 's choice will simply be for the product that is : 1. Greener, better for the environment ! 2. Whichever product gives BA more oportunity for growt
103 Caminito : Many A-netters which believe that the market, especially the A380's, will grow strongly (example: 5%/year as Keesje posts), also seem to believe that
104 T773ER : I don't think BA will make a decision based solely on environmental impact.
105 Post contains links and images Keesje : Will a BA 787 fit all 767 gates? I think it carriers much more seat too.. we must worn BA on the gates..    Even worse Boeing, Rolls & Airbus Too .
106 Mutu : And there it is at last! WHilst we all like to discuss/dream/fantasise/hope that BA will go for A or B or both, and demonstrate our knowledge to supp
107 Addrenaline : Well if you you believe that you will have a surprise in store ! Add
108 Post contains images Caminito : You seem to have missed totally my point I am not denying that the overall markets will continue to grow (except during economic downturns, which cer
109 TeamAmerica : Yes...there is actually a bit of a silver lining for those who get to keep their jobs. As fuel becomes the biggest cost factor, labor and infrastruct
110 Stitch : Airbus is claiming a 13 unit per month production rate for the A350. They should still have delivery slots available in 2014 for the A350-900 and 201
111 AF022 : How much commonality is there between the B787 and the B748?
112 Caminito : I thing you have forgotten that Leahy has stated that they want to achieve 13/month after producing if I remember well 60 frames in the first 2 years
113 VV701 : He also confirmed that all the aircraft that BA will order will have engines! Now for all you people who are projecting industry growth figures out i
114 Sh0rtybr0wn : GEnx engine commonality, if you get GEnx on your 787s, although 748 has smaller fan etc. 748 should rather be more flight deck similar to existing 74
115 Addrenaline : The two prime factors in this order are : Growth & Environment Like I said the environment issues are key, so please don't under estimate the importa
116 Scorpio : Um, from what I gather, Boeing is actually going to try to deliver far more than 60 frames in the first two years of delivery, so I don't see what is
117 Post contains links SJCRRPAX : So they won't be buying a B727 this time? Seriously, aren't Boeing and Airbus products about equal in terms of environmental impact? If they are voti
118 Mutu : I think you should READ other peoples posts carefuly before jumping down their throats. The point is entirely relevent to the thread. But of course I
119 Stitch : Depends on the config. LH believes their A388s will burn about 10% less fuel per km per passenger then their 748s. However, that figure also cannot b
120 Scorpio : Since new products from both manufacturers are probably very close in that department, I don't suspect 'environmental issues' will swing the decision
121 Lrdc9 : I would say B747-8i. They need the high pax capacity. I think that the 787 would be to small for BA. Another order for the 748i might help overall ord
122 Scorpio : Then why not the A380? 787 too small to replace a 767?
123 RTFM : Sorry but arguments based on 'the market's growing 5% per year therefore BA must buy A380s' is too simplistic. The key questions are 'what markets ar
124 Boeing767-300 : Yeah...Ok thats why SRB went with Boeing 787 when one would have expected A350. Didn't SRB go GE on the 787?
125 TeamAmerica : Excellent post. It would seem that increasing capacity has more potential to be a liability to BA than it might be an asset. Buying smaller aircraft
126 Post contains images TeamAmerica : Wow. I responded positively to your post, and you consider that jumping down your throat? My comment about "wandering off topic" was referring to my
127 Jtdieffen : Exactly. A 3/4 full A380 will not be as "green" as a fully loaded 747 (most likely), even if it is technical more efficient. There are many real worl
128 Post contains links and images Keesje : " target=_blank>http://www.boeing.com/commercial/747....html Boeing has been doing this per seat magic for yrs. It says the 747-8i carries typically 4
129 Caminito : Scorpio I am somewhat concerned that you quoted incompletely and out of context my statement and argued consequently: I wrote: and if it was still no
130 Scorpio : Still doesn't change much about the whole thing. Isn't Boeing considering going to 14, or even 16, 787s per month? Still more than Airbus' 13, so aga
131 Post contains images Ikramerica : Enough man. Enough. There are carriers with high 300s pax in 744s in three class, claimed to hold 417. And there are carriers with plans for 3 class
132 MSYtristar : I can see that. That's taking into consideration a large Y cabin. It's up to the airlines to decide how they want to lay out their aircraft. If you p
133 Post contains images Gemuser : I give up! A second time! Read the manual, or as we say in IT - RTFM! OK Panam_DC10? Gemuser
134 Caminito : Again, referring to the last sentence of my post 112. 13, 16 or 20 per month are not unrealistic, what is clearly so is to pretend an AVERAGE of 13 i
135 Addrenaline : My money's on Airbus.... The A380 is both quiet and gives BA the flexibility to replace two services with one should they want to, a single flight is
136 SJCRRPAX : You certainly could be correct about BA buying the A380, and it would be a great choice. But if they care for the environment I would think they woul
137 Post contains links SA7700 : My sincere apologies for being off-topic You can not dispute the fact that money is being spent in order for airports to receive the A380 on a regular
138 Theginge : Some routes like JFK are not full all the time, so an A380 on this would be a waste of money. I can't see BA reducing JFK frequencys just because of t
139 ANstar : 787 is a better 767 replacement then the A350..[/quote] Do they need a direct 767 replacement though? The rumours suggest that LGW will get 767's. Now
140 Scouseflyer : I hope so too, this has gone on for such a long time, I wonder if A net will burst if the announcement is that the orders is to be further delayed...
141 Ikramerica : It can only replace two 767s, otherwise it would be a CUT in capacity. But they could replace 3 flights with 2 A380s. Like 2 744s and a 772 with 2 A3
142 Parapente : one thought. If BA go 748 and 787 as they well might - where does that leave Rolls. It would make no sense to choose 2 types of identical engine when
143 Post contains links and images Keesje : We are talking BA 747 configuration here. Caminito you are absolutely right. I can see you are new on a.net but I tried this for many years. However
144 Post contains images WINGS : " target=_blank>http://www.airliners.net/discussions...10589 I just went back and read through that thread. The most interesting things that I noticed
145 Gemuser : Never did! Disputed that the money HAD to spent to have the A380 operate at an airport. That is simply NOT true. Where in your ref does it say that?
146 Post contains links SA7700 : The major airfield works included widening of pavement shoulders to runways and taxiways, airfield services protection, and re-alignment of Taxiway A
147 Caminito : [quote=Keesje,reply=143]As WingedMigrator himself states, this approach has its flaws too. Fuel consumption isn't included.. he talks about a third ax
148 Zeke : Maybe of you look at last year, in that case the 773ER would be a better choice. But BA are buying aircraft to last the next 15-20 years of growth. A
149 SJCRRPAX : The growth in Air Travel will be mostly China and India. All of the population projections I have seen have shown Europe's population decreasing. Sin
150 Mutu : Thats sort of the point i was trying to make when I took SUCH exception to your dismissal of it. The point is not an A v B decision or indeed a 787 v
151 Caminito : Your argument has merits, assuming that the VLA market will grow strongly in the future and more important, if BA will join statistically this growth
152 Post contains links Zeke : BA has been increasing the capacity on each aircraft by about 3% a year (take a bit of working out to get the growth numbers from the annual report h
153 Addrenaline : Zeke you are spot on in your analysis, too many people on this forum are so tunnel visioned ! For those of you who keep tabs on airlines profitabilit
154 TeamAmerica : No airline is likely to reduce NYC frequencies with slot restrictions on the horizon. BA knows very well how that game is played; they are more likel
155 Caminito : This is the past, not the future. See reply 103. As said there, this was before the super-players as EK, SQ,QR etc. will come in If you do not consid
156 Post contains images TeamAmerica : My #125 was not in response to your post. Nothing I have posted in any way dismissed your comments. I responded in the affirmative to a rhetorical qu
157 Caminito : Advancing my opinion that the BA statement of submitting the decision to environments criteria is PR (as it was Virgin's!), and considering the fact
158 Post contains images Stitch : So replacing their entire fleet with planes with significantly (25-50%) more capacity is likely not a decision BA is going to take, lest they find th
159 Zeke : Did you see the quote from the BA annual report that I posted.... The phase out of 744 to 380s would not occur overnight, I would think the 57 aircra
160 Post contains images SSTsomeday : Even if that is officially the case, I thought that Boeing would likely (secretly) hold back some slots so that if a huge order was forthcoming (like
161 Keesje : I love the 747, have spend years working on it and made dozens of flights in economy business and chatting in the galleys / cockpits. From a BA standp
162 SSTsomeday : Well, BA has many routes that it may consider do not have the demand to warrant a 380. As a smaller A/C by a considerable margin, the 747-8 may prove
163 Keesje : If BA orders the 380 now they have a mixed fleet for many yrs to come. New A380s + relatively young 747-400´s. If they want to replace the complete
164 SSTsomeday : I see your point. True. But, and unfortunately for the likes of me, I doubt what transpires in the economy cabin has much to do with the most importa
165 Caminito : You are referring to the RR document, where they make as many other a general markets forecast, which obviously is all important for an Engine maker.
166 Sh0rtybr0wn : Exactly. And all BA has to do now is pay the deposits. Airbus would be so happy to get 15 A380 orders from BA with 10 options, they probably cut them
167 TeamAmerica : Do we know what the interior noise level will be on the B748i? IIRC Boeing is using a new type of insulation.
168 VV701 : In the last ten years far from "increasing the capacity on each aircraft" in BA's LONG HAUL fleet - and it is its long haul fleet we are discussing h
169 Ikramerica : Between the quieter engine and improved insulation, it will be quieter than the 744, which is not an overly loud aircraft. But the A380 will be the q
170 Zeke : I included the quote from the BA annual report, the paragraph that included "longhaul fleet growth and replacement beyond 2010" came from the BA annu
171 ER757 : Yes, they were talking about one aircraft evry three days when production is up to full speed. Of course that was before things like the now famous f
172 Caminito : All what I will say here I am addressing only because other mention it repeatedly. I state again, as I did earlier, that IMO NONE OF THESE PARAMETERS
173 Caminito : Could you indicate the page? Thanks
174 Abba : Increase in air travel is not so much a function of population growth, but economic growth on a per capita basis. And in Europe you will no doubt see
175 Post contains images Astuteman : As most of the "billions" for an upgrade have already been spent, the answer to that would depend on the incremental additional market likely to accr
176 Ikramerica : Threads over. Let's lock it. BA has spoken!!
177 SJCRRPAX : I think Europe is already a fairly wealthy part of the world, and with fuel costs rising, and emissions trading, and a stagnant population, I cannot
178 Post contains images Astuteman : Fancy BA opting for those old T900 clunkers.... Regards
179 Caminito : Could you complete this?
180 Post contains images Baroque : There is another precedent, the VC10 was designed to overcome problems of many airports not being suitable for the 707 but by the time the VC10 was i
181 Ikramerica : ??? 12 x A380 + 24 x 787.
182 Pixuk : There were a lot of "definite" predictions of 748i's in this thread, but this was the one that made me smile most in light of BA's announcement.[Edit
183 Post contains links Zeke : Chairman's report page 4, "Earlier in the year we ordered four Boeing 777s for delivery in 2009 and we expect to make a major order soon for new repl
184 Post contains links Jano : British Airways Ditches 747 For Airbus A380 British Airways ended decades of loyalty to Boeing's 747 jumbo with a switch to Airbus's new A380 superjum
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