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Benefits Of DL Operating Flights To LHR And LGW?  
User currently offlineRafflesKing From Singapore, joined Mar 2007, 314 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4443 times:

This question stems from the thread DL to Announce Latest International Expansion This Week' , where a few fellow a.netters speculated which US Gateways will get some of the 3 LHR slots DL purchased.

What are the benefits of a US carrier operating at both airports? I read lots that LHR is the more desirable airport and can attract more premium traffic, but with a fragmented operation, DL incurs the cost of overlapping personnel, furnishing, and probably a Crown Room and/or arrivals lounge.

I took a quick sample of advanced purchase coach and business fares from BWI and PHL to LHR and LGW, and they're relatively similiar. Assuming loads are the same, I suppose the revenue upside must be with JFK and other markets.

One viable theory is the business traveler FF that prefers LHR would be more inclined to migrate to DL and its growing international route network.

Sidenote, but I'm sure an occasional traveler will show up at the wrong airport  

[Edited 2007-09-24 18:44:02]

14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33033 posts, RR: 71
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4441 times:

There will still be a market from Gatwick to the US, and with reduced service by other carriers, it can be even more profitable than it is today. American Airlines also plans to remain at Gatwick.


a.
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7685 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4395 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
There will still be a market from Gatwick to the US, and with reduced service by other carriers, it can be even more profitable than it is today. American Airlines also plans to remain at Gatwick.

Ive wondered something. Why doesnt AA switch both frequencies from DFW to LHR and put the LGW frequency at ORD? ORD-LON market is a lot bigger than DFW and instead of serveing both LON airports from DFW, why dont serve them from ORD?

ORD currently doesnt have LGW service.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23148 posts, RR: 20
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4327 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 2):

Ive wondered something. Why doesnt AA switch both frequencies from DFW to LHR and put the LGW frequency at ORD? ORD-LON market is a lot bigger than DFW and instead of serveing both LON airports from DFW, why dont serve them from ORD?

ORD-LGW will be a MUCH stronger possibility if AA and BA get ATI, as the two would have a ridiculous frequency advantage on ORD-LHR even if AA ran a flight to LGW. The departure schedule to LHR looks like this now:

AA 90 0910
BA 294 1640
AA 56 1700
BA 296 1740
AA 66 1800
AA 46 2015
BA 298 2015
AA 98 2150

[Edited 2007-09-24 19:54:53]


I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineCloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4306 times:

So is it worthwhile for BA to fly to both JFK and Newark? Of course. The catchment areas are different so are the demographics of the passengers.


A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
User currently offlineRafflesKing From Singapore, joined Mar 2007, 314 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4281 times:

Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 4):
So is it worthwhile for BA to fly to both JFK and Newark? Of course. The catchment areas are different so are the demographics of the passengers.

Different scenario - those passengers use LHR for connection opportunities whereas most passengers' destination will be London on DL.

But why is LHR so much more desirable than LGW that it justifies operating to two stations? I see the incremental cost, but I don't see the incremental revenue (I'm only assuming a shift of flights from LGW to LHR, not increased frequency).


User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6490 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4266 times:

Quoting RafflesKing (Thread starter):
This question stems from the thread DL to Announce Latest International Expansion This Week' , where a few fellow a.netters speculated which US Gateways will get some of the 3 LHR slots DL purchased.

Please give the details of the 3 LHR slots that DL has purchased. From who, how much, when etc.?


User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4923 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4257 times:
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Part of the reason comes down to practicality. DL won't be able to get enough slots (at least at desirable times anyway) to move all of their London operations to LHR initially even if they wanted to.

User currently offlineRafflesKing From Singapore, joined Mar 2007, 314 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4231 times:

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 6):
Please give the details of the 3 LHR slots that DL has purchased. From who, how much, when etc.?

Air France/KLM, how much was not released, in April or May

I think the deal also said that AF/KL codes would be placed on the flights.


User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6490 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4129 times:

Quoting RafflesKing (Reply 8):
Air France/KLM, how much was not released, in April or May

I think the deal also said that AF/KL codes would be placed on the flights.

Neither Delta or AF/KLM have announced any such slot sale.


User currently offlineNickofatlanta From Australia, joined May 2000, 1488 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4047 times:

Anyone think they may announce LHR on Tuesday?

User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 3995 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 3):
ORD-LGW will be a MUCH stronger possibility if AA and BA get ATI, as the two would have a ridiculous frequency advantage on ORD-LHR even if AA ran a flight to LGW.

One may not lead to another... remember, intercon carriers are often not allowed to invoke ATI on hub2hub routings.

However, with the amount of non-OneHeathroWorld competition on ORD-LHR, AA/BA may be allowed (some) collusion after all.


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9555 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3911 times:

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...ctors/transport/article1654231.ece
there is a link and yes 3 slots and AF and KL code on the flight

Quoting Nickofatlanta (Reply 10):
Anyone think they may announce LHR on Tuesday?

maybe if so look for BA to change ATL to LHR



yep.
User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4405 posts, RR: 19
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3879 times:

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 11):
One may not lead to another... remember, intercon carriers are often not allowed to invoke ATI on hub2hub routings.

However, with the amount of non-OneHeathroWorld competition on ORD-LHR, AA/BA may be allowed (some) collusion after all.

To be brutally honest, I expect that, even if AA/BA were granted ATI tomorrow, they'd collude far less on North Atlantic flying than was envisioned a decade or so ago.



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3864 times:

DOT data has shown that DL and CO do better on their LGW flights than UA has on its eastern US- LHR routes. UA typically has only had a revenue premium to LHR from the western US. AA has had a significant revenue premium over UA from eastern US gateways due to AA's stronger position and because AA has had at least some relationship with BA for years - although AA/BA LHR has still been excluded from codesharing.

So, there is a market for service to LGW as MAH (my favorite Swede  Smile) points out. And, having the most flights in a market or to/from a city can very well translate into a revenue premium. So, CO, DL, and NW know they will not become the dominant carrier in London - and their task may become even harder now that they may have their operations spread over multiple airports. They will get some help from AF/KL who will help market the flights in the UK (although they are not big players there), but they also will share in some of the profits which is why they were willing to part with the slots in the first place. The only reason AF/KL would sell their slots at LHR is because they will be able to share DL/NW's revenue (not sure that CO has agreed to revenue sharing); the revenue gain for AF/KL by sharing revenue on a transatlantic flight is greater than what they could operating flights within Europe.


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