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BBD Confirms 39 Q400's Still Grounded  
User currently offlineCRJ900X From Canada, joined Dec 2006, 197 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 3137 times:

Hey all,

Just curious to know which operators still have aircraft (Q400's) on the ground. I realize that SAS still has their entire fleet on the ground so that they can be repaired. Would the other operators be Wideroe and Augsburg that have the grounded Q-400's?

The article from the National Post:
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/f...ec0-4911-b881-e5de3de3dc29&k=39902

I have also found it interesting that Wideroe has one Q400 on order from Bombardier. I wonder if they will try and cancel the order due to problems experienced with the fleet.

Cheers,

CRJ900X

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7809 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 3101 times:

"We've had main landing gear events, which I think we've addressed very proactively," he said. "Now we have an incident with the front landing gear, which is a very different system."

How is it proactive. Are the main and nose gear all manufactured by Goodrich.

"While the incidents are "odd," Mr. Beaudoin said to his knowledge the causes are unrelated because they originated from different problems. "We're doing an audit. I have no reason to believe that the [landing gear] system is not safe," he said.

It has been a rocky year for the Q400, which also had two other emergency landings in Japan in March after a faulty electrical switch failed to drop the front landing gear. That switch has been replaced on all Q400s".

At what point would he believe that the landing gear is not safe.


User currently offlineSomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3510 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3001 times:

Wideroe still has all their 4 Q400 grounded and as they are part of the SAS Group they will most likely be grounded as long as SAS' Q400 are grounded

User currently offlinePrebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6538 posts, RR: 54
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2887 times:

Extracts from SAS press release, two day s old:

"SAS has decided to exchange all parts in the landing gear which contributed to the accident in AAL (actuator piston and rod ends) regardless if needed or not. We are cooperating with Bombardier and Goodrich - landing gear producer - about supply of the needed spare parts, but spares availability is a bottleneck, and supply takes longer time than expected.

We expect that the checks and exchange of components needed will mean that our Q400 will be grounded for at least one more week.

SAS will not reintroduce the planes until we have got a preliminary report from the accident investigation board in Vilnius, and we will also demand full knowledge about the reason for an incident with a Q400 belonging to Augsburg Airways (Lufthansa Regional) in Munich.

An approval from the Scandinavian aviation authorities is also mandatory. Following that all planes will pass an extensive test program and test flights before they finally can gradually be put into service again"


So maybe next week a few SAS Q400 mights fly again.

SAS has taken a different approach compared to most operators. SAS will only fly again when all corroded parts have been exchanged with new ones, even if several planes may have suffered only insignificant corrosion. And when an absolutely safe inspection and maintenance procedure has been established. With the extremely high profile these accidents have got here in Scandinavia, then anything less than that would also be business-wise suicide.



Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
User currently offlineCPHGuard From Denmark, joined Jun 2006, 279 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2720 times:

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 3):
and we will also demand full knowledge about the reason for an incident with a Q400 belonging to Augsburg Airways

I beleive that the reason for the Augsburg incident has already been clarified.

A broken spring in the front gear, seems to be the cause.


User currently offlineDYflyer From Norway, joined May 2006, 676 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2671 times:

Quoting CRJ900X (Thread starter):
I have also found it interesting that Wideroe has one Q400 on order from Bombardier. I wonder if they will try and cancel the order due to problems experienced with the fleet.

Unless they are told by SAS to cancel i think they will take the delivery. The Q400 has worked well in Wideroes fleet, and i think they need more planes. Also the press hasn´t been so bad here in Norway as in e.g. Denmark, so i think most PAX wouldn´t have any problem flying with a Q400 (or even know what type of plane they are flying with).



Life is like a book. If you don't travel, you only read one page.
User currently offlinePrebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6538 posts, RR: 54
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2502 times:

SAS is planning to initiate Q400 ops on Thursday 4th October.

The first planes have now been rebuilt and are being tested.

From 4th October more and more planes will be released for service, and not too many days later the whole fleet is expected to be in service again.



Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2256 times:

They had an flight today where a Q400 had to go back to Copenhagen, faulty indications on the instruments.

User currently offlineSomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3510 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2256 times:

Think they still have a few Q400 (in addtion to those Q400 in AAlborg and Vilnius) that are still grounded. Most Q400 flights have now been resumed howevere a few flights are still cancelled for the rest of the week.

User currently offlinePrebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6538 posts, RR: 54
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2256 times:

Quoting Alessandro (Reply 7):
They had an flight today where a Q400 had to go back to Copenhagen, faulty indications on the instruments.

Yes, the morning plane from Copenhagen to Gdansk in Poland returned to CPH. An indicator told that a nose wheel door didn't close properly, or at least it didn't do so in first attempt. A very trivial thing, had it not been on a Q400.

That event was blown totally out of proportion only because it happened on a Q400. This whole country has gone totally crazy about anything related to the Q400.

At the same time, or slightly later, a 737 (not SAS plane) during engine start-up almost put the whole airport on fire. That incident was only mentioned in the press because all journalists had rushed to the scene to hear about a bee of wasp which had committed suicide on a Q400 nose wheel door switch.

Still the Q400 got by far the most press coverage. I wonder when and how this drama will end. If I was a SAS manager, then I could see only two options: Get rid of those planes or change their name.



Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
User currently offlinePrebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6538 posts, RR: 54
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2256 times:

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 8):
Think they still have a few Q400 (in addtion to those Q400 in AAlborg and Vilnius) that are still grounded. Most Q400 flights have now been resumed howevere a few flights are still cancelled for the rest of the week.

Next Monday or Tuesday all 27 planes (excluding the broken ones) will have been modified, tested and put into service again.



Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
User currently offlineMCO2BRS From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 547 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2256 times:

Quoting CPHGuard (Reply 4):

What happened to the Augsburg Q400 in MUC? I haven't heard about this one?


User currently offlinePrebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6538 posts, RR: 54
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2256 times:

Quoting MCO2BRS (Reply 11):
What happened to the Augsburg Q400 in MUC? I haven't heard about this one?

It landed with nose wheel retracted - some defective sping in the system.

If it's back in service, I don't know. But in any case it received very modest damage compared to the SAS planes with collapsed MLG, especially the first one in AAL.



Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
User currently offlineAgnusBymaster From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 652 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2256 times:

The problem with the Q400 is that basically all the parts were subcontracted to different vendors unlike previous Bombardier aircraft. So, they obviously still had some learning curve as far as making it work seemlessly, although this is a problem Boeing is experiencing too.

User currently offlinePrebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6538 posts, RR: 54
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2256 times:

Quoting AgnusBymaster (Reply 13):
The problem with the Q400 is that basically all the parts were subcontracted to different vendors unlike previous Bombardier aircraft.

The Q400 landing gear, which caused all this mess, is subcontracted to Goodrich - same subcontractor as Dash-8-100, -200 and -300 landing gears. But it's a different design.

But on the Q400 many more systems were subcontracted compared to the -100/-200/-300.



Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10817 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2256 times:

That the SAS Q400 will be flying sooner or later is clear. What about the two SAS aircraft which were damaged, one very severe? Will they be repaired or not?

User currently offlinePrebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6538 posts, RR: 54
Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2256 times:

Quoting NA (Reply 15):
What about the two SAS aircraft which were damaged, one very severe? Will they be repaired or not?

No hard data yet.

The Vilnius plane will surely fly again.

The Aalborg plane is much more severely damaged. Wing hit the ground at full landing speed as the spoilers were extended. Prop parts penetrated the pressurized part of the fuselage. If the wing main spar was bent, then I would assume that it is a write off. Then there is hardly anything left but good tail feathers and a good #1 engine.



Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
User currently offlineSxf24 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1262 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 2256 times:

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 14):

The Q400 landing gear, which caused all this mess, is subcontracted to Goodrich - same subcontractor as Dash-8-100, -200 and -300 landing gears. But it's a different design.


I'm pretty sure the -100, -200 and -300 have landing gear from Messier-Dowty, with Goodrich brakes.


User currently offlineSomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3510 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1905 times:

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 16):
The Aalborg plane is much more severely damaged. Wing hit the ground at full landing speed as the spoilers were extended. Prop parts penetrated the pressurized part of the fuselage. If the wing main spar was bent, then I would assume that it is a write off. Then there is hardly anything left but good tail feathers and a good #1 engine.

Haven't seen any announcement from SAS regarding this during tha last few weeks, but SAS claimed earlier that they would probably be able to fix the aircraft as the damages were less than expected


User currently offlineStarGoldLHR From Heard and McDonald Islands, joined Feb 2004, 1529 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1905 times:

I'm not sure but I thought I saw an SAS one of these at LCY Yesterday ?

Did I ? or was it someone elses ? Eitherway I dont think ive seen too many of these at LCY.



So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
User currently offlineBmiBaby737 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1835 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1743 times:

Information per Flysas.com

"SAS has reinstated the first Dash 8-400 (Q400) aircraft, unfortunately some traffic disturbance is still to be expected. For rebooking and more information, passengers are kindly asked to contact the place of purchase or SAS Sales Services in your country"


User currently offlineDYflyer From Norway, joined May 2006, 676 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1743 times:

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 19):
I'm not sure but I thought I saw an SAS one of these at LCY Yesterday ?
Did I ? or was it someone elses ? Eitherway I dont think ive seen too many of these at LCY.

You probably saw correct. Some of the planes are now back in service, and SK uses the Q400 between CPH and LCY (they use an Avro from OSL and ARN).

Quoting BmiBaby737 (Reply 20):
"SAS has reinstated the first Dash 8-400 (Q400) aircraft, unfortunately some traffic disturbance is still to be expected. For rebooking and more information, passengers are kindly asked to contact the place of purchase or SAS Sales Services in your country"

Still some flights are cancelled because of the problems. Today a total of 27 flights were cancelled.



Life is like a book. If you don't travel, you only read one page.
User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1469 times:

The drama continues, an SAS Q400 had to turn around due to landing gear refused to fold into the plane.
Add the faulty engine indicator the other day and lack of spares to fix the rest of them.


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