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NWA Manila Based F/A's Salary  
User currently offlineSCUMBAG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 5637 times:

I was talking to a friend the other day who is married to a former (recent) NWA F/A who up until last year was living in Manila and working as a F/A with 4 years experience. He was saying the working conditions and salary was a joke compared to the US crews. and that the workload and duties were every bit as challenging as what is expected from the US crews. Nevertheless this is considered to be a prized job that is extremely competitive and requires no less than an undergrad degree, profound beauty and flawless skin as well as strict age, weight and height restrictions. My question is how do they get away with this? NWA is an American corporation and is bound by US laws and the FAA.

45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5523 posts, RR: 56
Reply 1, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 5616 times:

Quoting SCUMBAG (Thread starter):
NWA is an American corporation and is bound by US laws and the FAA.

It is. In the US only. Everything else is up to local laws.

Quoting SCUMBAG (Thread starter):
My question is how do they get away with this?

Because they can and do. Is it right? No, but it does not deter applicants, by any stretch.



You can't cure stupid
User currently offlineNwab787techops From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 219 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 5610 times:

Quoting SCUMBAG (Thread starter):
requires no less than an undergrad degree, profound beauty and flawless skin as well as strict age, weight and height restrictions

You must not fly NW that much.


User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25166 posts, RR: 48
Reply 3, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 5573 times:

Common,

If you hire local employees you will pay them appropriate local wages.

This has nothing to do with NWA, or the airline industry.

A doctor, lawyer, bus driver, police officer, ticket agent in the Philippines gets paid on a scale that is commensurate with the country and its economic conditions.

For example one does not go out and hire a police office in the Philippines to start at what LAPD does here of $50,000+ if the local average wage for such a position is merely $10,000.

What NWA is doing is not irresponsible, it very proper and logical.

By your inference next time you are in the Philippines suggest you pay $50 for a meal who's check comes to merely the equivalent of $10.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6465 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 5500 times:

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 1):
Because they can and do. Is it right? No, but it does not deter applicants, by any stretch.

NWA has been hiring Asian flight attendants for about 50 years, who basically staff the flights within Asia.They have been hired under the local laws just like every other US company doing business in foreign countries.Foreign companies doing business in the US follow US laws. That is the way international business works.

Quoting SCUMBAG (Thread starter):
My question is how do they get away with this? NWA is an American corporation and is bound by US laws and the FAA.

Do you think Toyota in the US follows Japanese laws, or Lufthansa follows German law?


User currently offlineTundra767 From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2005, 430 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 5485 times:

With UA only the crews based in BKK and SIN are "regional" f/a's. The others based in HKG and NRT are are US payroll and are members of the F/A union AFA.

User currently offlineEDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 5462 times:

Quoting SCUMBAG (Thread starter):
NWA is an American corporation and is bound by US laws and the FAA.

US law and FAA regulations do not apply in the Philippines or any other foreign sovereign state.

The staff concerned will be employed under the terms of employment law of the Republic of the Philippines. By the same token say Lufthansa staff fpr example, based in the US would be employed subject to US legislation.

Average earnings in the Philippines are significantly lower than in most developed economic nations, even for those in the professions, believe me I know, my wife is filipina. She is a Registered Nurse and her take home pay here in NZ is about 8 times what she was earning in Manila.


User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4807 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 5449 times:

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 1):
Because they can and do. Is it right? No, but it does not deter applicants, by any stretch.

The econonomic condition in the Philippines is such that hundreds of otherwise over-qualified applicants will fight for that position. For that benefit, the least the hiring airline could do is treat them well.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 3):
if the local average wage for such a position is merely $10,000.

It's more like $2,000+ per annum for newbies.



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineSean-SAN- From United States of America, joined Aug 2002, 769 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 5418 times:

Unlike many Asian airlines, NW doesn't seem to fire their Asian FA's when they get a little old. Last time I flew to Manila, all the local FA's looked to be at least late 20's -40yo. Naturally, they still looked young compared to the US based flight attendants they use on those routes... who seemed to be in their 50's-70's.

User currently offlineEWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5523 posts, RR: 56
Reply 9, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 5418 times:

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 8):
That is the way international business works.

Nothing new to me. Thank you, though, for the business summary.



You can't cure stupid
User currently offlineN77014 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 5387 times:

Does the original poster also take into account that the cost of living in MNL is many times lower than in the US or NRT?

User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 11, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 5357 times:

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 11):
The econonomic condition in the Philippines is such that hundreds of otherwise over-qualified applicants will fight for that position. For that benefit, the least the hiring airline could do is treat them well.

In what way is NW not treating the MNL-based crew well? NW is creating jobs and hiring locals. Nuff said.

Given the high demand for the positions, NW could (and perhaps should) lower the MNL salaries even more to reduce costs. High demand for a job generally means it's overpaid from a suppy & demand perspective. Any NW employees who don't like the pay are free to work elsewhere in Manila.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineN77014 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 5346 times:

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 15):
Given the high demand for the positions, NW could (and perhaps should) lower the MNL salaries even more to reduce costs. High demand for a job generally means it's overpaid from a suppy & demand perspective. Any NW employees who don't like the pay are free to work elsewhere in Manila.

Or one could say it is an oversupply in the labor market. But not necessarily an overpaid salary from a skill set and experience perspective.


User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4807 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (6 years 11 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 5283 times:

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 15):
In what way is NW not treating the MNL-based crew well? NW is creating jobs and hiring locals. Nuff said.

I did not say NW is maltreating their MNL based crew. All I'm saying is a hiring company should treat their local staff well in return for their role in making the company's operation more profitable.

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 15):
Given the high demand for the positions, NW could (and perhaps should) lower the MNL salaries even more to reduce costs.

Or they could and perhaps should, hire Americans and Canadians instead if that's the way NW views its overseas staff. Why don't NW reduce the rates of their US/Canadian staff instead? That would reduce their operating costs infinitely more, than the paltry savings they would realize by cutting the already meagre salaries they're paying their local people.

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 15):
High demand for a job generally means it's overpaid from a suppy & demand perspective. Any NW employees who don't like the pay are free to work elsewhere in Manila.

And NW is free to go and fly elsewhere if they're bringing with them that exploitative attitude. A thousand or so job-seekers wouldn't make a noticeable dent in the country's unemployment rate.

Quoting N77014 (Reply 16):

Or one could say it is an oversupply in the labor market. But not necessarily an overpaid salary from a skill set and experience perspective.

 checkmark 



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 14, posted (6 years 11 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5161 times:

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 17):
I did not say NW is maltreating their MNL based crew. All I'm saying is a hiring company should treat their local staff well in return for their role in making the company's operation more profitable.

The willingness of Philippine nationals to work for NW voluntarily suggests that NW does treat them well.

In any country, salaries should be low enough to attract quality staff. Given the increased commoditization of the airline industry, and the huge number of potential employees (at least in MNL), this means long term downward trends in airline salaries for everyone (whether US or MNL based) which is good news for travellers and share holders.

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 17):
And NW is free to go and fly elsewhere if they're bringing with them that exploitative attitude.

There are no exploited workers ANYWHERE in the non-Communist world. All NW employees in MNL are working voluntarily for NW and contractually agree with their wages. If NW can somehow reduce their salaries further with replacement staff or wage reductions, the flying public and shareholders will benefit greatly.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6465 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (6 years 11 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5139 times:

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 17):
And NW is free to go and fly elsewhere if they're bringing with them that exploitative attitude. A thousand or so job-seekers wouldn't make a noticeable dent in the country's unemployment rate.

Are you saying the NWA pay and benefits at Manila are not competitive with the other airlines that fly there? I would bet they are competitive, but I will wait for your answer.


User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7408 posts, RR: 50
Reply 16, posted (6 years 11 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5107 times:
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Quoting SCUMBAG (Thread starter):
My question is how do they get away with this? NWA is an American corporation and is bound by US laws and the FAA.

On the flipside, our tenured NRT-based FA's makes leagues more than those of us in US, so NWA and others only pay the local wages. Their base pay maybe low, but their incentive pay is done through meal vouchers that they can use to buy dinners out in MNL for them or their families. It may not sound like mush, but they seem to be happy with it. As far as thm having to be the most polished FA's, the MNL based FA's are the least-rigidly managed FA's in the Pacific Division. They often cut corners, flagrently change the service when one of their own is the Main Cabin Lead(MCL). They often don't even offer a choice, moreoften they just pass out a meal and whatever is on the tray is what you get. So the perception that they are the nicest or best Customer Service oriented is highly debatable. Quite the contrary. They're paid what they're worth as far as I see it, nothing. The PVG and PEK FA's are terrorised by the President of Inflight Services who is aka as the Dragon Lady.



Made from jets!
User currently offlineJBLUA320 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 3179 posts, RR: 19
Reply 17, posted (6 years 11 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5041 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Here's a dumb question... Do the "regional" and intra-Asia crews for UA and NW get trained in centers overseas, or are they brought to America?

JBLU


User currently offlineTVNWZ From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 2374 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (6 years 11 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5016 times:

I do not think it is against US law to discriminate based on looks. Sometimes, I wish they would.

User currently offlineAmtrakGuy From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 500 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 11 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4866 times:

Where do MNL based fly to? And what type of aircraft?

User currently offlineSCUMBAG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (6 years 11 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4851 times:

Where do MNL based fly to? And what type of aircraft? They go to other cities in Asia on Jet aircraft.

User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4807 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (6 years 11 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4786 times:

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 18):
The willingness of Philippine nationals to work for NW voluntarily suggests that NW does treat them well.

It only confirms their need of a job. The suggestion might well be true but is not an absolute.

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 18):

There are no exploited workers ANYWHERE in the non-Communist world.

As there are no masters in the Worker's Paradise.

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 18):

In any country, salaries should be low enough to attract quality staff.

I think you had that backwards.

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 18):
Given the increased commoditization of the airline industry, and the huge number of potential employees (at least in MNL), this means long term downward trends in airline salaries for everyone (whether US or MNL based) which is good news for travellers and share holders.

And very bad news for the employees, and not necessarily good for the travellers.

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 18):
All NW employees in MNL are working voluntarily for NW and contractually agree with their wages. If NW can somehow reduce their salaries further with replacement staff or wage reductions, the flying public and shareholders will benefit greatly.

Ah, yes. That's not exploiting people, only situations and circumstances.  sarcastic  The company's and its shareholders gain will be assured, the benefit to the flying public is not a given.

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 19):
Are you saying the NWA pay and benefits at Manila are not competitive with the other airlines that fly there? I would bet they are competitive, but I will wait for your answer.

I'm saying that we could do well without this arrogance.....

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 15):
Given the high demand for the positions, NW could (and perhaps should) lower the MNL salaries even more to reduce costs.



Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 20):
They're paid what they're worth as far as I see it, nothing.

And the company must be of the view that it's paying you way too much than you're worth in hiring them.



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineAASTEW From Dominican Republic, joined Oct 2001, 447 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (6 years 11 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4593 times:

Same things goes for AA's foreign nationals.....they are not union(APFA). Not included in AA USA seniority list.

AA foreign nationals are trained in DFW with everyone else. There also are some foreign national instructors.

AASTEW


User currently offlineCOSPN From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1619 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 11 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4579 times:

Im Glad CO does not do this USA Citizen or Green card....how can they keep track of FA's all over the world ???

Next thing you know phone will be answered in India ??? Oh yea they do that also


User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7539 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (6 years 11 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4361 times:

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 17):
Why don't NW reduce the rates of their US/Canadian staff instead?

Well, its been done, unlike overseas, the US based employees lost 40% of their pay. Keep in mind that the cost of living in the US is enourmously higher then that of the Philippines. Finally NRT crews I believe are the highest paid FA's.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
25 Jfidler : In any company, the CEO's job is to increase shareholder value. This can often take the form of improving customer service, products, etc but the mai
26 Bobnwa : Not sure what that means, but again I ask if NWA is paying competitive wages in the Philippine market?
27 DEVILFISH : I leave that for you to judge.
28 Bobnwa : I would have to know the numbers in order to judge wouldn't I? You apparently know the numbers, so please share them.
29 Tundra767 : Can't speak for NWA. But the ones at United complete initial training in ORD. Infact one class is supposed to be going through soon. Unlike the regio
30 SCUMBAG : I read where MANY PAL pilots jumped ship and went to work for other non Filipino Asian carriers much to the displeasure of the government as well as P
31 EXAAUADL : Not for foreign based flight crews it isnt........Does GM provide health and pension benefits to Mexican based workers?
32 JKJ777 : Hardly, new LAPD officers make about 20,000 less than that. If the wages were that high, we would have a fraction of the crime here.
33 Jetjack74 : They fly on interport flights, which are within Asia. Keep your shorts on Devilfish. It wasn't a swipe at MNL-based FA's. The comment was mostly abou
34 Post contains links Laxintl : LAPD pay, along with most LA area law enforment agencies start in the $50,000+ range The starting base salary for high school graduates is $54,475. I
35 Jkj777 : Interesting that you and the website say that. In reality, my neighbor (who is a US citizen, but parents are from the Phillippines) graduated with a
36 Laxintl : Neither are LAPD areas. Each has own police department He must be some civilian support position. As mentioned and per the website starting pay is in
37 AmtrakGuy : Thank you Jetjack74! What about spoken-languages? And do any one have a rough # of MNL-based FAs?
38 Jkj777 : [quote=Laxintl,reply=36]He must be some civilian support position. As mentioned and per the website starting pay is in the mid-high 50's for the most
39 Post contains links Laxintl : Sorry to say, however either you are mistaken about your friends position or pay. Sworn LAPD pay rates, step increases, and overrides are clearly def
40 Bobnwa : Have you checked the web site Laxintl published? Looks to me like he is right. But getting back to original thread, I will ask again. Do NWA F/A in t
41 LurveBus : I don't know exactly how much N/W F/As make, but just to give you an idea of exactly how much people make in this country, if you're a college gradua
42 N867BX : who's the scumbag that started this thread.
43 Centrair : I think they are evey paid more than JL staff. I have a former student who works at a Starbucks in Aoyama (Tokyo). One of her co-workers is a JL F/A
44 ADXMatt : Yes...NWA is bound by the FAR's (FAA) The FAA will determine duty day, training requirements, speak and understand english good enough for their posi
45 Bobnwa : This is true of all industries in all countries. They pay in local currency and local wage scales.
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