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All Nippon : 1st Japanese A380 Operator?  
User currently offlineFCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 11205 times:

French economic newspaper "Les Echos" (Highly reliable newspaper) wrote that internal source at Airbus in Toulouse , told after the BA A380 order , 4 airlines are in the pipeline to order the Whalejet as well.
They are : Air India , Air China , Korean Air ( option conversions , if any ?) , and .............All Nippon aw.

The first 3 are not a surprise (even if this is the first time i hear about option conversions for KE) , as already discussed at Airliners.net , but what about the fourth ?

CEO of NH declared some time ago , he has not in sight to introduce the A380 in his fleet , and see the 777 and 787 as the workhorses in his long haul strategy.

Did he change his mind ?
Any fresh news from Japan ?

71 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7077 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 11167 times:

Quoting FCKC (Thread starter):
Air China

Honestly I hope not, they were always rumored to be a potential 747-8I customer and I hope they will order it. I doubt that they would order both and the 747-8I could use some good press.

Quoting FCKC (Thread starter):
All Nippon

Not as big of a surprise as they always left the door open for a possible A380 order.

"If as other carriers introduce the A380 we feel we can’t compete, then we will acquire it, but the medium-term plan is not to order the aircraft,” he says."
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...oor-open-for-a380-despite-777.html

Airbus was in Japan this summer and presented the Aircraft to ANA maybe they could raise some more interest in it.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 11121 times:

Quoting Columba (Reply 1):
"If as other carriers introduce the A380 we feel we can’t compete, then we will acquire it, but the medium-term plan is not to order the aircraft,” he says."

I see that happening AF, LH, BA, VS, and EK will fly the A380 to Japan, SQ will do so, too, and maybe even fly from there to the US with it. A380s offer a level of comfort at a price that the 77W can not compete with. So NH wouldn't need to bother to fly on routes served with A380s, unless they use A380s themselves.

Quoting Columba (Reply 1):
Quoting FCKC (Thread starter):
Air China

Honestly I hope not, they were always rumored to be a potential 747-8I customer and I hope they will order it. I doubt that they would order both and the 747-8I could use some good press.

Rumored. A lot of companies have been rumored to buy the 747-8I, but Air China is also a clear A380 candidate.

Quoting FCKC (Thread starter):
Air India

I'd never rule them out, certainly they need something bigger than the 77W, too.


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7077 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 11079 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 2):
I see that happening AF, LH, BA, VS, and EK will fly the A380 to Japan, SQ will do so, too, and maybe even fly from there to the US with it. A380s offer a level of comfort at a price that the 77W can not compete with. So NH wouldn't need to bother to fly on routes served with A380s, unless they use A380s themselves.

I agree, as soon as the A380 will enter service many airlines that have not ordered it now will place orders. ANA and JAL are most likely as well as CX.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 2):
Rumored. A lot of companies have been rumored to buy the 747-8I, but Air China is also a clear A380 candidate.

Yes but the Air China rumors were the most plausible.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 2):
I'd never rule them out, certainly they need something bigger than the 77W, too.

Leahy was quite confident to win Air India. I see other Indian carriers like Jet Airways as possible customers, too.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 11064 times:

Quoting Columba (Reply 3):
I agree, as soon as the A380 will enter service many airlines that have not ordered it now will place orders. ANA and JAL are most likely as well as CX.

Right, especially CX, because they have high standards and will see a lot of foreign A380s at their home turf.

Quoting Columba (Reply 3):
Yes but the Air China rumors were the most plausible.

OK, can you explain why?

Quoting Columba (Reply 3):
Leahy was quite confident to win Air India. I see other Indian carriers like Jet Airways as possible customers, too.

Yes, AI and 9W are highly likely. Especially with AI now using A330s.


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7077 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 10914 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 4):

OK, can you explain why?

They were said to have ordered but did not sign the contract due to a diplomatic incident with the US.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineGlareskin From Netherlands, joined Jun 2005, 1307 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 10867 times:

Big version: Width: 640 Height: 454 File size: 71kb

How nice a liverey that would be.....

Quoting Columba (Reply 3):
Yes but the Air China rumors were the most plausible.

I thought their interest was in the A380F. Are you sure this is about the pax version?



There's still a long way to go before all the alliances deserve a star...
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7077 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 10856 times:

Quoting Glareskin (Reply 6):
Are you sure this is about the pax version?

747-8 not A380F and yes the passenger version.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 10839 times:

Quoting Columba (Reply 5):
They were said to have ordered but did not sign the contract due to a diplomatic incident with the US.

And what is the source for that?


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7077 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 10825 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 8):
And what is the source for that?

The usual where I get my aviation knowledge: airliners.net and Aero International. Must have been one of the two.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlinePlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6824 posts, RR: 77
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 10627 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 2):
A380s offer a level of comfort at a price that the 77W can not compete with.

Airlines can offer a similar level of comfort on both A380 and B77W. Japanese carriers haven been yield-orientated lately and reduced capacity on international trunk routes (B744 replaced by B77W).


PH



Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12515 posts, RR: 35
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 10465 times:

Neither CA nor AI, KE or 9W would surprise me, but NH certainly would (and pleasantly so, of course). However, it would still be a big surprise. If you're competing on the most heavily travelled routes (which I'm assuming would be LAX, FRA, JFK, LHR, CDG, ORD and SFO), I would think that the aim would not be to get a larger aircraft, but to ensure that the product is superior - which NH does anyway.

User currently offlineSlz396 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10342 times:

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 10):
Airlines can offer a similar level of comfort on both A380 and B77W.

Actually they can't.

The reason being that the A380 is to set new standards of F and C class seats, which are much more voluminous than what we are used to today. If airlines want to install equally wide F and C class seats on the 777, they loose an awful lot of usable floorspace, which will then inflate the CASM of their plane. The alternative for them is to stick to their current cabin layout and see most of their top class pax deflect to airlines which do offer far more privacy and luxury for similar fares through A380s.

The choice for non-A380 WB operators is really dead simple:
-) offer an equal comfort to the individual F and C class pax on the 777 as on the A380s of the competitor's and inflate the CASM of the 777 as a consequence.
-) try to keep CASM down by making optimal use of floorspace, thus lacking comfort and probably loosing an awful lot of the high yielding pax.

You can be sure that the A380 is going to force its way into the fleets of many airlines which have taken a very conservative stance against it so far, simply because they won't want to make the above choice.
British Airways is only the first of many airlines which has come to understand they had to join, or they would be left behind...

In 10 years time, a long haul airline which is serving the larger airports in Asia is going to do so with A380, or they are not going to do so at all.


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7077 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10324 times:

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 12):
You can be sure that the A380 is going to force its way into the fleets of many airlines which have taken a very conservative stance against it so far, simply because they won't want to make the above choice.
British Airways is only the first of many airlines which has come to understand they had to join, or they would be left behind...

In 10 years time, a long haul airline which is serving the larger airports in Asia is going to do so with A380, or they are not going to do so at all.

 checkmark 
Could not have said it better.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlinePlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6824 posts, RR: 77
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10275 times:

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 12):
Actually they can't.

The reason being that the A380 is to set new standards of F and C class seats, which are much more voluminous than what we are used to today. If airlines want to install equally wide F and C class seats on the 777, they loose an awful lot of usable floorspace, which will then inflate the CASM of their plane. The alternative for them is to stick to their current cabin layout and see most of their top class pax deflect to airlines which do offer far more privacy and luxury for similar fares through A380s.

The choice for non-A380 WB operators is really dead simple:
-) offer an equal comfort to the individual F and C class pax on the 777 as on the A380s of the competitor's and inflate the CASM of the 777 as a consequence.
-) try to keep CASM down by making optimal use of floorspace, thus lacking comfort and probably loosing an awful lot of the high yielding pax.

If there were only these options, numerous airlines would have already dropped their 787/A350 orders and stopped operating in fear of the mighty double decker...  Wink

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 12):
In 10 years time, a long haul airline which is serving the larger airports in Asia is going to do so with A380, or they are not going to do so at all.

And the 787s/A350s will be sold or moved to the desert?


PH



Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
User currently offlineSlz396 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10237 times:

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 14):
If there were only these options, numerous airlines would have already dropped their 787/A350 orders and stopped operating in fear of the mighty double decker...

Wrong.

The A350 or 787 is a different plane, aimed at a different market segment and should thus not be used to compete against the A380. The airlines which have ordered them will deploy them on routes which can not support a 500 seating plane.

On routes which can accommodate A380s however (i.e. high density routes which see several thousands of seats offered a day), it increasingly looks like more and more world class airlines have come to understand they MUST have the A380 too to be able to hold on to their current market share as a smaller class plane will put them in un unfavourable position as I have explained above.


User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8018 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 10178 times:

I'm not sure if NH would want to fly the A380-800. They'd rather fly smaller planes such as the 777-300ER, which fulfills their requirements for flights to Europe and North America.

User currently offlinePlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6824 posts, RR: 77
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 10167 times:

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 15):
The A350 or 787 is a different plane, aimed at a different market segment and should thus not be used to compete against the A380. The airlines which have ordered them will deploy them on routes which can not support a 500 seating plane.

Of course the smaller aircraft will be deployed on routes supporting a 500 seating airplane - just more frequently. Additionally, 787s and A350s can be used to start new routes bypassing the large gateways.

The A380 will be great for slot resticted airports - but for many carriers it will be more lucrative to standardize on B77W/B787 class aircraft and concentrate on frequencies and yields. The expense for adding the A380 to the fleet for three or four routes is not worth it for many carriers.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 15):
On routes which can accommodate A380s however (i.e. high density routes which see several thousands of seats offered a day), it increasingly looks like more and more world class airlines have come to understand they MUST have the A380 too to be able to hold on to their current market share as a smaller class plane will put them in un unfavourable position as I have explained above.

Don't confuse high density routes with "slot-restricted" routes.


PH



Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
User currently offlineN14AZ From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2757 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 10119 times:

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 15):
The A350 or 787 is a different plane, aimed at a different market segment and should thus not be used to compete against the A380.

Woaw, this is breaking news!! Didn't know this before...  Wink

But I have the feeling that the A380 program is definitely gathering momentum. Maybe even more when some of them are in service.


User currently offlineSlz396 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9849 times:

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 17):
Don't confuse high density routes with "slot-restricted" routes

I am not.

There are several routes in Asia which I can think of linking 2 mega-airports which are both relatively unrestricted and see an offer of several thousand of seats a day... those are the routes on which most A380s are going to be deployed as they will offer the operator the possibility to offer UNCOMPROMISED LUXURY and the LOWEST CASM, whereas competitors will have to choose.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 17):
Of course the smaller aircraft will be deployed on routes supporting a 500 seating airplane - just more frequently.


Smaller planes will be flown on those routes too by second tier airlines which can only offer their F and C class pax (if any) less comfort than the top class airlines or by airlines which decide to focus on equal comfort levels as on the 'biggies' but at higher fares, but whether they will manage to secure their current market share on those routes in the long term to secure the 'higher frequency theory' is highly questionable.

British Airways did not want to end up belonging to those airlines who take the risk of gambling with their market share, so they've decided to order their first batch of A380s (my bet is it won't be their last) and my prediction is that many other airlines will follow over the next decade...

[Edited 2007-09-29 18:07:50]

User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9782 times:

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 10):
Airlines can offer a similar level of comfort on both A380 and B77W.

Yes, but with 3-abreast in first, 3-abreast in business, and 8-abreast in economy class in the 77W. Maybe some will do that, but the price per seat would skyrocket.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 10):
Japanese carriers haven been yield-orientated lately and reduced capacity on international trunk routes (B744 replaced by B77W).

Operating costs were probably the main factor in that decision, not capacity.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 12):
The reason being that the A380 is to set new standards of F and C class seats, which are much more voluminous than what we are used to today. If airlines want to install equally wide F and C class seats on the 777, they loose an awful lot of usable floorspace, which will then inflate the CASM of their plane. The alternative for them is to stick to their current cabin layout and see most of their top class pax deflect to airlines which do offer far more privacy and luxury for similar fares through A380s.

The choice for non-A380 WB operators is really dead simple:
-) offer an equal comfort to the individual F and C class pax on the 777 as on the A380s of the competitor's and inflate the CASM of the 777 as a consequence.
-) try to keep CASM down by making optimal use of floorspace, thus lacking comfort and probably loosing an awful lot of the high yielding pax.

You can be sure that the A380 is going to force its way into the fleets of many airlines which have taken a very conservative stance against it so far, simply because they won't want to make the above choice.
British Airways is only the first of many airlines which has come to understand they had to join, or they would be left behind...

In 10 years time, a long haul airline which is serving the larger airports in Asia is going to do so with A380, or they are not going to do so at all.

Exactly.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 14):
If there were only these options, numerous airlines would have already dropped their 787/A350 orders and stopped operating in fear of the mighty double decker... Wink

787/A350 will serve other routes than the A380, or be used at times were demand is lower.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 14):
And the 787s/A350s will be sold or moved to the desert?

There will be a use for them, not every route will be served with A380s.


User currently offlineDL767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 9485 times:

well ANA ordering the A380 could happen, but i bet Boeing would give them an amazing deal on the 748 since they are the 787 launch customer, then become the Asian 748 launch customer, but an asian carrier hauls a ton of people so the A380 might be necessary.

User currently offlineSh0rtybr0wn From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 528 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 9270 times:

I would love to see ANA buy the A380. 10 with 10 options. Fly more people into NRT, and make more money.

They're in a much better financial situation than JAL right now, and they could really become most Japan's prestigious Air carrier if the offered the luxury A380 F and J type service. Kick your competition when they're down.



Plus. an ANA "Goldjet" would look beautiful.


User currently offlinePlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6824 posts, RR: 77
Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 8971 times:

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 19):
There are several routes in Asia which I can think of linking 2 mega-airports which are both relatively unrestricted and see an offer of several thousand of seats a day.

Examples?

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 19):
those are the routes on which most A380s are going to be deployed as they will offer the operator the possibility to offer UNCOMPROMISED LUXURY and the LOWEST CASM, whereas competitors will have to choose.

That "uncompromised luxury" argument reminds me of the first years of the B747...premium carriers don't need an A380 in order to offer luxury to F and C class pax - it's not like a lounge area is the big deal. And with the B787 and A350 entering the market, the A380's CASM advantage will shrink. Again: the A380 may have cost advantages on particular routes, but the question is whether it's worth it for an airline to add such a type for a small number of routes.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 19):
Smaller planes will be flown on those routes too by second tier airlines which can only offer their F and C class pax (if any) less comfort than the top class airlines or by airlines which decide to focus on equal comfort levels as on the 'biggies' but at higher fares, but whether they will manage to secure their current market share on those routes in the long term to secure the 'higher frequency theory' is highly questionable.

Interesting how you call airlines without the A380 "second tier" carriers...which is ridiculous. The A380 won't offer anything revolutionary which could not be adopted to other longhaul aircraft. And business pax are both interested in comfort and a choice of frequencies.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 20):

Yes, but with 3-abreast in first, 3-abreast in business, and 8-abreast in economy class in the 77W. Maybe some will do that, but the price per seat would skyrocket.

Simply no. You need to take into consideration all cost factors for the airline in total, not just concentrate on one or two particular routes.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 20):
Operating costs were probably the main factor in that decision, not capacity.

Yield...

Quoting Thorben (Reply 20):
787/A350 will serve other routes than the A380, or be used at times were demand is lower.

Or where demand is high and airline can offer more frequencies - which is what premium customers want and pay for - not just for "extra luxury" (or how PR departments want to call that).


PH



Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8859 times:

Many theories have passed a.net why the Japanese will never need / order the A380, year after year. However this also was the case for BA, these theories didn´t really stick outside a.net. Airbus visited ANA twice at it´s home turf..



25 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Absolutely correct.......I think A.net is the only place on the planet where this myth exists... ....yup, yet another myth in "A.net world".... ....S
26 Ncelhr : Clearly, you cannot just say there is one single market out there. You will have premium passengers who will require frequency, hence the need for 787
27 Post contains images FRNT787 : I aggree as well, after all if the lounge was all important, we would have seen more than 56 377 Stratocruisers built.
28 Abba : I am afraid that the 748 will have its most difficult market in Asia. The plane will be considered here as old-time. Indeed. And I wonder why CX is n
29 Neder99 : Although they might change their policy in the future, I think many are forgetting that ANA's biggest market by far is the domestic one. Yes, it would
30 Keesje : I think ANA is not looking at short haul use. BTWw I think the A380 is quieter the e.g. a B777-300ER.
31 EBJ1248650 : I think he's talking about the major airlines that traditionally operate very large jumbo jets (747 and larger). A380 is in a class by itself, as sur
32 Ikramerica : This is just plain false. For example, most airlines are putting J upstairs, which is NARROWER than the 777 and about the same as the 787. Any J prod
33 Post contains links Thorben : Even more to the disadvantage of the 77W, pilot costs, purchase price, etc. if you break it down to the single pax, the A380 looks way better. Would
34 Post contains images WingedMigrator : Are you confusing Air China (People's Republic of China) with China Airlines (Republic of China, i.e. Taiwan) ? China Airlines definitely owes the US
35 Post contains links Thorben : From my point of view the floor is the widest place in the upper deck. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:Airbus_A380_cross_section.svg
36 Birdbrainz : Sounds just like the prediction that LHR would ultimately go all widebody, as slots are too precious. The enthusiasm for the A380 will depend on how
37 Pohakuloa : I must say, even though it may be in my own little corner of the world, but I think this makes some economical sense for ANA or any japanese carrier.
38 Post contains images Jacobin777 : If NH isn't going for yield then why are they downguaging from a B ....its all about CASM and RASM/yields mate...that's all included when you make the
39 Ktachiya : The BA order could potentially affect NH. Since BA ordered it, they will fly it between NRT-LHR. If that happens and BA is succesful in getting more b
40 Post contains links and images WingedMigrator : " target=_blank>http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:Ai...n.svg Funny you should bring up that cross section diagram... I created it The floor is 5.28 m
41 Post contains images PlaneHunter : Wait - is that the reason why the A380 is such a best seller and the B77W and B787 are not? Jacobin did already. NH and JL have been dumping capacity
42 Post contains images Columba : Yes indeed thank you
43 SA7700 : Now where exactly does this leave airlines, like SA, with their "so-called gas-guzzling" 4-hole A340's? Rgds SA7700
44 Post contains links and images Thorben : They simply replaced the older 744 with the newer 77W, which makes sense, because the 77W is soooo fuel-efficient, as a lot of people never get tired
45 Thorben : There is no such thing as a gas-guzzling A340. Unless it gets an after-burner. SA was replacing old 747s with A340s. A very good move, indeed, becaus
46 Post contains images SA7700 : Thanks for the reply, but where does the A346 for instance come in, when you compare the 77W with the A380? The A346 and 77W are afterall direct comp
47 Thorben : Compared to the A380, the A346 has similar advantages/disadvantages like the 77W. Maybe even a little more, since its cabin is even less wide. 77W an
48 Post contains images SA7700 : Thanks for the explanation. Much appreciated Rgds SA7700
49 PlaneHunter : It IS fuel-efficient - no need to get ironic about it. The reason could be concentrating on yields, dropping discounted Eco seats. If you can fill a
50 Post contains links and images Jacobin777 : ....quite possibly, however with the B744's probably being paid off, it might be better to keep those flying instead. Also the B744, though its almos
51 Columba : Which sometimes has to do with the lack of different engines available for each type. Some airlines prefer engine communality over aircraft commonali
52 Post contains links Brendows : A380 ACAP
53 PlaneHunter : Absolutely true - but but certain carriers didn't mind about introducing the B77W along with GE90 as a new engine type while e.g. Trent-powered aircr
54 OldAeroGuy : Sorry, but it is not. For the same payload over the same range, the 773ER burns about 10% less fuel than the A346. The reasons are lower OEW, better
55 Thorben : Yes, they switched in order to reduce their fuel expenses. The first new generation twin-jet in 77W size won't be around before 2015. Its range isn't
56 Thorben : Possible, LH still flies A306 and 737s, despite their age, because they have been paid, but at some point you need to replace planes, and be it just
57 Post contains images Astuteman : One would assume the quietest aircraft flying today would be welcomed.......... This arrangement would appear to make the upper deck more comfortable
58 Post contains images PlaneHunter : As I said - no need to do so when you can fill the larger B744 with good yields. If fuel costs were the only aspect, you'd see many more B744s ground
59 Thorben : They are not panically thrown into the desert, but a lot of major carriers are preparing to phase their 744s out. So, then the A330 is a 777 competit
60 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ..who said it was "oh-so-terrible"? It's a great plane and it was effective in its goals of efficiently replacing the earlier build B747's....the "pr
61 Post contains images Thorben : Countless a.netters..... Where have they acknowledged that? The A350-1000 is mainly there to have a whole family concept, which they didn't really ha
62 OldAeroGuy : Not likely. The higher OEW of the A346HGW will account of about 5% higher A346HGW fuel burn. TSFC and L/D differences account for the remaining 5%.
63 Thorben : No, the 5% higher OEW doesn't mean a 5% higher total take-off weight.
64 Astuteman : IIRC John Leahy once raised the possibility of offering potential customers "cash" to offset the higher fuel costs, as an incentive to purchase the A
65 Post contains images WingedMigrator : Would it kill you to say please? What's wrong with it is your unshakable conviction that it is 5.92 m. If you can't bring yourself to do that, then F
66 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ....exactly..you proved my sarcastic point.. ....common sense would be a great start... .....is there some sarcasm there? ......er, Thorben, that's t
67 Rheinbote : More precisely, as soon as it has proven itself in service re performance and operational reliability.
68 PlaneHunter : More fuel-efficient maybe - but the B744's CASM is still lower. There's still a difference of between 70 and more than 100 seats in a three-class con
69 OldAeroGuy : Who said that it did? If the payload is the same and the OEW is 5% higher, the A346HGW takeoff weight would need to be about 8% higher to make up for
70 Post contains images RIX : If such a proof needed, there would be no launch orders at all . Whoever orders new model of airplane, already presumes it is preforming, and reliabl
71 Carpethead : Bring it on. NH could use it for NRT-FRA, JFK & HKG plus one for spare today. How about 6 firm and 4 options with RR engines. Last check, the A380 hav
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Most Probable 1st Scheduled A380 To MEX posted Sun Jan 21 2007 22:18:27 by MXComet4C
SQ Marketing: Does 1st With A380 Matter Anymore? posted Sun Oct 8 2006 23:25:07 by RedFlyer
NY Times: SIN-SYD 1st SQ A380 Route posted Tue Mar 28 2006 20:41:10 by Ctbarnes
First A380 Operator In HK? posted Fri Nov 4 2005 06:51:38 by Ctang
QF Names 1st Airbus A380 posted Thu Oct 20 2005 20:44:00 by Jacobin777
All Nippon 747-400 Just Landed At YUL posted Wed Oct 5 2005 17:33:08 by PU707
All Nippon NRT-PHX... How Likely? How Soon? posted Wed Sep 28 2005 15:28:33 by Jmc1975