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Airbus A380 Update  
User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 68
Posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 22623 times:




http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...-service-entry-with-singapore.html

Airbus confident ahead of A380 service entry with Singapore Airlines.

* Airbus has generated an unprecedented number of flying hours for an aircraft ahead of service entry. The 10 A380s that have flown to date - including five development aircraft - have accumulated over 4,400h in the air and almost 3,400 take-offs.

* SIA will only take one of the 471-seaters this year, and Airbus will station around 30 people in Singapore to support the airline during the early operations.

* On the production side, Airbus has now assembled 23 A380s including the five development aircraft (but excluding the ground test airframes). Three SIA A380s are in Hamburg undergoing cabin furnishing, along with the first Emirates aircraft.

* The first Qantas A380 (MSN014) is undergoing the finalising of its wiring installation in Toulouse as it approaches the "power-on" stage, and should be ferried to Hamburg for furnishing before year-end.

* The first A380 to be equipped with the redesigned electrical system will be MSN026, and Heinen says that the design is now frozen and the installation is due to begin "in the coming weeks". This aircraft should be ready for power-on early in 2008.

* Thirteen A380s will be delivered in 2008, 25 in 2009 and 45 a year from 2010. Output is accelerating towards two aircraft a month, and Heinen says that Airbus is working with suppliers after they slowed or halted manufacturing to "bring them back to speed". Factories will reach four aircraft a month level during 2009 ahead of final assembly reaching four a month in 2010.

* Airbus has completed another round of wake vortex trials using the A380 and other widebodies. Heinen says the data has been "compounded" and handed to the International Civil Aviation Organization for analysis. "Our expectation is we will see further relaxation in the recommended separ-ation distances by year-end."


Regards,
Wings


Aviation Is A Passion.
49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30872 posts, RR: 86
Reply 1, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 22470 times:
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Thanks for the update!

Exciting times ahead.


User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 22340 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
Thanks for the update!

Indeed Wings, thanks for that post.

Quoting WINGS (Thread starter):
* SIA will only take one of the 471-seaters this year

So at Christmas this year, we'll have one A380 flying SIN-SYD regularly.

Quoting WINGS (Thread starter):
* Thirteen A380s will be delivered in 2008,

Christmas 08: 14 of the beasts flying. Who will get them in 08? SQ, EK, QF, any one else?

Quoting WINGS (Thread starter):
25 in 2009

39 at Christmas 09, they will have made their way to many airports, then. Who will also get them in 09? LH, AF?

Quoting WINGS (Thread starter):
* SIA will only take one of the 471-seaters this year, and Airbus will station around 30 people in Singapore to support the airline during the early operations.

Yes, but I think we'll see a pretty smooth EIS. Those birds have been flying for a long time and been tested under real-life conditions, there should not be many problems.


User currently offlineUnited787 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2698 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 22049 times:

Quoting WINGS (Thread starter):
* On the production side, Airbus has now assembled 23 A380s including the five development aircraft (but excluding the ground test airframes).

How many static test airframes are there?

23 is amazing. If 3 are in Hamburg, are the other 20 at TLS? I assume 1 or 2 are flying around for various purposes and there are a couple inside the assembly hall but I assume the rest are just sitting on the tarmac...do we have any pictures? I would love to see 15-20 A380s in one place!


User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 22039 times:

Quoting United787 (Reply 3):
How many static test airframes are there?

I know only of the one that was doing fatigue tests in DRS.


User currently offlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 5025 posts, RR: 44
Reply 5, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 22016 times:

Quoting WINGS (Thread starter):
Thirteen A380s will be delivered in 2008

Isn't that an increase from what was said before?


User currently offlineBA319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8527 posts, RR: 54
Reply 6, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 21926 times:
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Quoting WINGS (Thread starter):
Airbus has now assembled 23 A380s including the five development aircraft (but excluding the ground test airframes).

- Amazing, never realised so many had been put together!!

Roll on 1st Commerical flight, can't wait for it!!

M



111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
User currently offlineB777Neuss From Germany, joined Aug 2007, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 21892 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 2):
Who will also get them in 09? LH, AF?

LH will get the first A380 in summer 09.
refer to www.lufthansa.de

[Edited 2007-10-01 21:43:16]

[Edited 2007-10-01 21:43:42]

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30872 posts, RR: 86
Reply 8, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 21834 times:
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Quoting Scorpio (Reply 5):
Isn't (13 deliveries in 2008) an increase from what was said before?

No it is not. 13 have been planned for 2008, 25 in 2009, and 45 from 2010 onwards.


User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9999 posts, RR: 96
Reply 9, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 21703 times:

Quoting WINGS (Thread starter):
Output is accelerating towards two aircraft a month, and Heinen says that Airbus is working with suppliers after they slowed or halted manufacturing to "bring them back to speed".



Quoting Stitch (Reply 8):
No it is not. 13 have been planned for 2008, 25 in 2009, and 45 from 2010 onwards.

I get the impression that, post SNAFU, Airbus are being decidedly conservative with the A380 production ramp-up.
I just wonder if we'll see this ramp-up accellerated somewhat..

Regards


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30872 posts, RR: 86
Reply 10, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 21533 times:
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Quoting Astuteman (Reply 9):
I get the impression that, post SNAFU, Airbus are being decidedly conservative with the A380 production ramp-up. I just wonder if we'll see this ramp-up accellerated somewhat..

I am sure they will work to lower the backlog as much as possible, even if airlines aren't quite ready to take them all. Like PAE, TLS has plenty of tarmac space.


User currently offlineCaminito From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 21480 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 10):
Quoting Astuteman (Reply 9):
I get the impression that, post SNAFU, Airbus are being decidedly conservative with the A380 production ramp-up. I just wonder if we'll see this ramp-up accellerated somewhat..

I am sure they will work to lower the backlog as much as possible, even if airlines aren't quite ready to take them all. Like PAE, TLS has plenty of tarmac space.

To complete an aircraft if it cannot be delivered (and paid!) is very costly (in term of cash flow) exercise, unless the component are already in stock. Supplier must be paid, but np money is coming in!


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30872 posts, RR: 86
Reply 12, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 21389 times:
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Quoting Caminito (Reply 11):
To complete an aircraft if it cannot be delivered (and paid!) is very costly (in term of cash flow) exercise, unless the component are already in stock. Supplier must be paid, but np money is coming in!

Fortunately, each A388 Airbus delivers helps pay for the goodies needed to deliver the next one.


User currently offlineCaminito From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 21297 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 10):
am sure they will work to lower the backlog as much as possible, even if airlines aren't quite ready to take them all. Like PAE, TLS has plenty of tarmac space.



Quoting Stitch (Reply 12):
Quoting Caminito (Reply 11):
To complete an aircraft if it cannot be delivered (and paid!) is very costly (in term of cash flow) exercise, unless the component are already in stock. Supplier must be paid, but no money is coming in!

Fortunately, each A388 Airbus delivers helps pay for the goodies needed to deliver the next one.

aft is completed but the

But we were speaking of the case yourself mentioned, if the aircraft when ready is not received nor paid by the customer!  Smile


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30872 posts, RR: 86
Reply 14, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 21185 times:
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Quoting Caminito (Reply 13):
But we were speaking of the case yourself mentioned, if the aircraft when ready is not received nor paid by the customer!  Smile

You do realize that customers put down a deposit and make "progress payments" as the plane is being built?

Neither Airbus nor Boeing build these babies "on credit" and then get a check for the full amount at delivery.  Smile


User currently offlineWF2BNN From Norway, joined Dec 2004, 103 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 21091 times:

When will someone order the A380-900?

When will we see it flying at the earliest?

Is a A380-1000 a possibility? Can it be built?

I hope to be on a A380 soon! Congratulations to you who have already been on one, and the ones that have tickets to fly on one soon!

Mateo



Feel the rythm, feel the rime - Grab your ticket, it's flyn' time
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30872 posts, RR: 86
Reply 16, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 21035 times:
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Quoting WF2BNN (Reply 15):
When will someone order the A380-900?

When Airbus offers it for sale.  Smile

Quoting WF2BNN (Reply 15):
When will we see it flying at the earliest?

Around 3-5 years after Airbus offers it for sale, I imagine.  Smile

Quoting WF2BNN (Reply 15):
Is a A380-1000 a possibility? Can it be built?

It's possible and it could be built, but it likely won't.


User currently offlineVega9000 From Portugal, joined Aug 2006, 180 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 20951 times:

Quoting WF2BNN (Reply 15):
Is a A380-1000 a possibility? Can it be built?



Quoting Stitch (Reply 16):
It's possible and it could be built, but it likely won't.

Well, just wait until oil hits $100 a barrel. Then we'll see a sheik ordering it, with gold-plated engines!  spin 



Don't believe anything you read on the net. Except this. Well, including this, I suppose.
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21503 posts, RR: 60
Reply 18, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 20912 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 14):
You do realize that customers put down a deposit and make "progress payments" as the plane is being built?

I am not so sure that Airbus can stretch out the delivery as long as they want and still collect progress payments on their schedule. The longer it drags out, the more it hurts the airlines to pay money without getting anything in return. I am sure part of the "penalty" negotiations dealt with the deferment and discounting of progress payments...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30872 posts, RR: 86
Reply 19, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 20837 times:
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Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 18):
I am not so sure that Airbus can stretch out the delivery as long as they want and still collect progress payments on their schedule. The longer it drags out, the more it hurts the airlines to pay money without getting anything in return. I am sure part of the "penalty" negotiations dealt with the deferment and discounting of progress payments...

Aye, and Airbus does have other sources of funding to draw from, including deliveries of other family jets.


User currently offlineGlacote From France, joined Jun 2005, 409 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 19995 times:

The most-interesting part methinks is the wake vortex trials. I am not sure to understand why more tests are required. Supposedly the previous batch of tests covered much more than what's usually needed - and that was already in response to what Airbus felt was overly conservative distances. So what can new data bring to the table?

Point being: the FAA is either right or wrong in its interpretation of the data, but the data were there already.

Unless obviously this is a diplomatic way of providing the FAA a honorable way of backtracking from their "overly conservative" distance separation. As in everybody knows that it does not change anything, but now we can say it's because of Airbus latest tests.

Or am I missing something?


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30872 posts, RR: 86
Reply 21, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 19934 times:
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The article talks about the ICAO wanting additional data, not the FAA...  confused 

User currently offlineWingedMigrator From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 2212 posts, RR: 56
Reply 22, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 19756 times:

Quoting WINGS (Thread starter):
Airbus has now assembled 23 A380s including the five development aircraft (but excluding the ground test airframes)

Well, zut alors, here I thought that I was watching the road convoys closely enough that none of them could get past me... each one involves the closure of several public roads over a period of several days, and three of those suckers sneaked right by me! (if this total is accurate-- of course, I hesitate to doubt Mr. Heinen)

Here's a recap of my convoy count.

As of June 2006 this Flight International article tallied the following assembled aircraft in Toulouse: MSN001 thru 012 and 014.

There were also supposed to be a few extra parts... for simplicity, let's abbreviate:
F = front fuselage
M = mid fuselage
R = rear fuselage
W = pair of wings
H = horizontal stab

So in June 2006, according to the article, Toulouse had 13 aircraft assembled and an extra 2F and 3W. Since then, the following convoys took place:

10-Jul-2006 partial convoy, F, R, H. Outstanding: 3F, R, H, 3W
04-Sep-2006 partial convoy, M, R, H -> #14 Outstanding: 2F, R, H, 2W
27-Nov-2006 partial convoy, M, H, W -> #15 Outstanding: F, H, 2W
29-Jan-2007 complete convoy -> #16
19-Mar-2007 complete convoy -> #17
21-May-2007 partial convoy, F, M, R -> #18 Outstanding: F, W
25-Jun-2007 complete convoy -> #19
27-Aug-2007 complete convoy -> #20
01-Oct-2007 complete convoy -> #21

So, by my possibly flawed count, today there are 20 frames assembled (5 test aircraft and 15 customer aircraft), plus the busted static airframe and the fatigue airframe in Dresden, for a grand total of 22. The 23rd one that is going in this week won't be assembled for a few days yet.

So I wonder if the fatigue and static test airframes were included in the 23? After all it wasn't a direct Heinen quote...

FWIW, three more convoys planned for this year:
15-Oct-2007
5-Nov-2007
10-Dec-2007

Can anybody fill in the blanks, if any?


User currently offlineTootallsd From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 559 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 19647 times:
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Quoting Stitch (Reply 10):
I get the impression that, post SNAFU, Airbus are being decidedly conservative with the A380 production ramp-up. I just wonder if we'll see this ramp-up accellerated somewhat..
I am sure they will work to lower the backlog as much as possible, even if airlines aren't quite ready to take them all. Like PAE, TLS has plenty of tarmac space.

So much odd information in these posts. If I read correctly, there are 20 frames assembled in TLS. But it will take until 18 months from now for them to be delivered. And we're saying that is a conservative ramp-up, no I think it is glacial. And why would the airlines not be ready for them, deliveries in 2009 and beyond should be much more than 2 years behind original quoted delivery dates.

I fully expect this plane will set new standards of accomodation in the air and be a dream for the passenger. For the manufacturer, not such a good thing.


User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 19513 times:

Quoting United787 (Reply 3):
How many static test airframes are there?

There is one is one (1) STATIC test airframe and one (1) FATIGUE test airframe.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 18):
am not so sure that Airbus can stretch out the delivery as long as they want and still collect progress payments on their schedule. The longer it drags out, the more it hurts the airlines to pay money without getting anything in return. I am sure part of the "penalty" negotiations dealt with the deferment and discounting of progress payments...

The customer pay the progress payments when certain milestones are met; contract signed, production started, final assembly completed, first flight, delivery. They don't pay when the airframe is being rewired because the first wiring was incorrect.

Quoting WINGS (Thread starter):
Airbus has generated an unprecedented number of flying hours for an aircraft ahead of service entry. The 10 A380s that have flown to date - including five development aircraft - have accumulated over 4,400h in the air and almost 3,400 take-offs.

This is understandable since Airbus has had over two years delay in delivery and have been test flying all that time. If the first aircraft would have been delivered on time the flight test hours would have been much lower.


25 LMML 14/32 : The 380 will set new standards for civil aviaton in general but the average passenger will only have his normal seat.
26 Ikramerica : Yes, but the airlines also expect the plane to be built in a certain timeframe, and if that timeframe is stretched 18 months, the time value of the m
27 Dxborbust : unless i'm missing something, does anyone know for certain when the inaugural a380 commercial flight for Singapore will be?
28 Post contains links and images Astuteman : Indeed. My point regarding post-SNAFU conservatism was that IMO Airbus face some very severe penalties for missing THIS programme, and consequently l
29 Post contains links and images WingedMigrator : You are missing something... all it takes is to warm up your little fingers and type www.singaporeair.com (edit: on second thought, please accept my
30 Post contains images Baroque : C'est formidable. But we need further explanation of your methods WM. Do you use visual ID or can you not rely on detection of the vibration from the
31 Scouseflyer : I'm defintely in agreement with you there, my thoughts are that they wanted to make doubly and tripply sure that the delivery of the A380 was hit thi
32 SSTsomeday : As I recall, the first 380s were planned to be wired in a unique way (after the wiring snafu) in order to get them out the door, which I gather would
33 OldAeroGuy : It's not just the FAA that needs to be satisfied. The four participants in the ICAO sponsored A380 Wake Vortex committee were Airbus, EASA, EuroContr
34 Post contains links Jdevora : Airbus confident ahead of A380 service entry with Singapore Airlines Cheers JD
35 Worldrider : have you seen the lounge area in the main.. (SQ seating plan) it will probably be accessible to Y passengers. just look at the plan..
36 Worldrider : not the main but the upper deck. sorry.
37 Worldrider : from MSN26, it's in the 1srt post article.
38 KL911 : I count 24 seats for the cabin crew. Is SIA planning to use a crew of 27 ( including 2 pilots plus one reserve pilot) on their A380's? In that case th
39 FlyUSCG : Airbus forgot to mention WHY they are able to achieve two of the facts stated in the article. I point it out because I think it is something that need
40 Post contains images BMIFlyer : Finally things are looking up where the A380 is concerned Great news for Airbus Lee
41 Stitch : One of the reasons the A388 frames have so many hours is due to route-proving and "public relations visits" to various airports. It is not all certifi
42 Dubliftment : has the first A380 already been delivered so SIA?
43 Post contains images MD80Nut : It's good to see Airbus is confident about the A380, hopefully entry into service will be smooth. I think BA's recent order is great news for the prog
44 Swallow : This is probably the reason why it is taking so long to complete these frames. To the best of my knowledge, Airbus has not said how long it takes to
45 NEMA : Really interesting post particularly with the deck plans.... then i noticed it was from WINGS..always good content.
46 Post contains images Stitch : No. Later this month. WINGS is doing a second by second countdown. Just look for the thread with 100,000 or so posts.
47 Glacote : Correct, thank you for the correction - ICAO should be substituted to FAA in my comments. Now I still can't guess what kind of new data could have be
48 Caminito : Possibly I was not looking well enough due to the "100,000", but I do not see any information of the progress[Edited 2007-10-02 17:45:46]
49 Post contains images Philzh : FIRST DELIVERY: 13 Days to go. ENTRY INTO SERVICE: 23 Days to go. (Posted 11 hours ago by WINGS). Or would you by any chance mean that old and by now
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