In April of 2003, the pilots of American Airlines ratified a concessionary contract with the goal of keeping our company out of bankruptcy.
AMR's position in 2003 was partially the result of the collapse of the airline industry in the wake of 9/11. However, a series of disastrous decisions by AMR management- from ill-advised purchases and attempted purchases of other carriers to poor marketing decisions to expensive stock buy-backs- exacerbated our company's financial woes.
The pilots of American Airlines stepped up and saved the AMR corporation from impending financial disaster with a series of massive concessions. This contract provided the AMR corporation with an estimated $1 billion in annual savings in the areas of pay, productivity, and benefits. Some pilots suffered pay cuts as severe as 50%- all American pilots, who had not enjoyed a pay raise since 2000, suffered tremendous personal and financial hardship.
At the time the contract was ratified, the pilots were assured that they would share in any future successes of the company that they preserved.
Within a year of the 2003 crisis, AMR was back on firm financial footing, paying down debt, restoring the balance sheet, and building a large cash cushion.
Management pay was restored to pre-2003 levels by late 2004 and bonus plans took effect.
As AMR became profitable in 2006, the top 1000 managers began to receive bonuses that would total over 250 million dollars by April of 2007, with the majority going to the top 50 managers. In 2006, the top 5 AMR managers received $33.9 million in compensation, 29% more than the next highest management team in the industry. At the same time, the pilots have not shared in the recovery of our airline as promised.
The pilots of American Airlines as represented by the Allied Pilots Association are presently in contract negotiations with AMR. The APA has set a goal of recovering the investment made in 2003, with a focus on the following areas:
Hourly pay rates that restore lost purchasing power
Recovery and improvement of work rules
Preservation and enhancement of retirement benefits
Variable compensation that provides a true stake in future success
To date, the AMR corporation seems unwilling to entertain any proposals that do not constitute further concessions.
The APA Negotiations Web site will provide factual information related the the ongoing negotiations, updates on the status of the negotiations via email, and a point of contact for additional questions.
Thank you for your interest in the contract negotiations between APA and AMR
AMR managers received over $260 million in bonuses between April 2006 and April 2007. If divided amongst the pilots this would equal an average pay raise of approximately 22% over that two year period.
Current American Airlines pilot hourly pay rates are approximately equal to 1992 pay rates. AMR management compensation has increased over 700% in the same time frame.
American Airlines flew 4.2% fewer block hours in 2006 than in 2000 with 30% fewer pilots. American pilots fly over 20% more now than they did 6 years ago.
American Airlines pilots produced 9.2% more domestic revenue passenger miles per pilot and $600,000 more in revenue per pilot than Southwest pilots in 2006, according to Department of Transportation Statistics.
American Airlines has finished an average of 8th out of 11 industry competitors in Survey America comparisons over the last four years. Pilot performance bonuses are heavily based on these statistics- management bonuses are not.
American Airlines pilots must requalify every nine months by completing an extensive series of emergency scenarios in advanced aircraft simulators. Failure to do so results in termination.
Airline Captains, and those First Officers who have Pilot-in-Command responsibility, must requalify medically every six months. Failure to meet stringent standards means removal from flight status.
Only a small number of airports have the facilities that allow an airliner to "land itself" using the autopilot. The vast majority of poor weather approaches are completed by pilots "hand-flying."
Pilots avoid thunderstorms and other hazardous weather themselves through the use of airborne weather radar. Correct radar technique takes years of experience to perfect. The energy in a typical summer thunderstorm is more than sufficient to severely damage or destroy an airliner.
The average AA pilot has over ten years of specialized education, including military, corporate, and/or airline flying experience, prior to being hired at American.
Between January and July of 2007, American Airlines had 205 flights that were delayed more than three hours between gate departure and takeoff, 57% more than the airline with the next highest number of delayed flights.
Itsnotfinals From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1704 times:
Quoting AA777ER (Thread starter): Pilots avoid thunderstorms and other hazardous weather themselves through the use of airborne weather radar. Correct radar technique takes years of experience to perfect. The energy in a typical summer thunderstorm is more than sufficient to severely damage or destroy an airliner.
Even a PPL knows this information, that doens't require a 200,000 dollar salary to figure out.
Quoting AA777ER (Thread starter): Only a small number of airports have the facilities that allow an airliner to "land itself" using the autopilot. The vast majority of poor weather approaches are completed by pilots "hand-flying."
yes 1000's of people fly non-EFIS C172's, King Airs, etc etc every day to uncontrolled fields , amazing there aren't more crashes.
Quoting AA777ER (Thread starter): Airline Captains, and those First Officers who have Pilot-in-Command responsibility, must requalify medically every six months. Failure to meet stringent standards means removal from flight status
So does the 24K a year regional pilot
Quoting AA777ER (Thread starter): American Airlines pilots must requalify every nine months by completing an extensive series of emergency scenarios in advanced aircraft simulators. Failure to do so results in termination
So does the 24K a year regional pilot
It's economics, real wage appreciation is down in many industries not just in aviation.
Contrails From United States, joined Oct 2000, 1613 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1651 times:
I'm not pro-union, and never have been. I don't support most of what the union is wanting, and I don't agree with their arguments; but when I hear of executive bonuses it makes my blood boil. This is a problem in many industries today, and it is repulsive and disgusting.
I can support the pilots on this issue, if nothing else. I hope a strike can be averted, but wouldn't want to make odds on it. I only ask that you get this resolved before Thanksgiving, and not hold your loyal pax hostage over this during the busiest travel period of the year.
Incitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 2708 posts, RR: 21 Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1583 times:
Quoting AA777ER (Thread starter): American Airlines pilots produced 9.2% more domestic revenue passenger miles per pilot and $600,000 more in revenue per pilot than Southwest pilots in 2006, according to Department of Transportation Statistics
It would seem that this feat, if accurate, would not be due to pilot competence. It actually reflects very well on management competence.
This information is about sales growth, not wage growth, 2 different things.
Also, Market Cap has nothing to do with wages, other than market cap goes up when stocks perform, which means profit, which usually means less labor cost.
These numbers are not a very good argument for increasing wages (costs) because the market cap would be negatively impacted, and potentially growth because cost of capitol is higher for less profitable companies.
My quote was about wage appreciation not about this 3yr, 5 yr and market cap.
every domestic US industry other than Healthcare is having wage pressure.
Itsnotfinals From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1507 times:
Quoting Incitatus (Reply 9): It would seem that this feat, if accurate, would not be due to pilot competence. It actually reflects very well on management competence.
yep and so would:
Quoting AA777ER (Thread starter): American Airlines flew 4.2% fewer block hours in 2006 than in 2000 with 30% fewer pilots. American pilots fly over 20% more now than they did 6 years ago.
How much of this extra time was due to ATC delays, weather, and other things beyond management control?
Quoting AA777ER (Thread starter): American Airlines pilots produced 9.2% more domestic revenue passenger miles per pilot and $600,000 more in revenue per pilot than Southwest pilots in 2006, according to Department of Transportation Statistics.
Is this including Eagle? this is a scheduling and equipment management improvement. How did the pilots produce more RPM's (other than the work rule changes)? another non-sensical argument. Fares have also risen during this time but so have costs. That has been very well documented.
Also: 600K of increased REVENUE (not profit) to cover 585,000 in more costs (or more). again. has nothing to do with pilots.
Quoting AA777ER (Thread starter): American Airlines currently holds approximately $6 Billion in unrestricted cash and has one of the strongest balance sheets in the airline industry.
Again, planning and fiscal responsibility.
I am a licenced pilot (over 20 years) and I respect AA's pilots very much (I know a few personally), and I don't belittle the skill and professionalism it takes to fly safely and consistently in today's aviation system.
These union arguments are grasping at straws plain and simple. there is no "I" in Team and unfortunately most MEC's (AA's and others) seem to forget that fact.
HPAEAA From United States, joined May 2006, 995 posts, RR: 2 Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1292 times:
Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 14): Are not AA pilots among the the top 5% of wage earners in the US at the present time? I would say that is being very well paid.
Agreed, when your toward the top of the latter, making more than the other union groups who also gave concessions (and their staying relatively quiet), I can't sympathize much.. if they had lost the money in the market due to a downturn, something tells me they'd have some fingers to point as well.
I'll stop there.. I don't want to spark any wars..
To balance this out, AA Mgt has some convincing evidence as well below, take a look at some of the productivity charts.
Because then the pilots lose their seniority and start all over again. That is the bad thing about a job based on seniority instead of performance, there is no way to "get ahead" because the union protects the slackers as well as the good guys.
To use a country song title "Everything you want comes with everything you don't"
Laxintl From United States, joined May 2000, 12219 posts, RR: 22 Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1163 times:
Quoting AA777ER (Reply 12): Now, Its time to Reward the AA Pilots for the above reasons..........................
They are being rewarded -- everyday by still having a company to work for.
If for not the sacrifice of AA employees including pilots, AA would have entered Ch11 and could very well look very different today.
For labor to believe they are due this money back, or deserve somesort of massive snap back is living in a fantasy land. The industry and world have changed, and like it or not wages and work environments needed to change as well.
Look at it this way, AA's profit for the full year of 2006 was $231 million -- the pilots alone are looking for raises which would wipe this out many times over. I guess they would like nothing more than to have the company be forced to visit the Ch11 court house in the coming years.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
MaverickM11 From United States, joined Apr 2000, 11947 posts, RR: 51 Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1148 times:
Quoting AA777ER (Thread starter): The pilots of American Airlines stepped up and saved the AMR corporation from impending financial disaster
What a bunch of delusional AA$$holes. I mean really....
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 26102 posts, RR: 77 Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1147 times:
Quoting AA777ER (Reply 12):
Now, Its time to Reward the AA Pilots for the above reasons..........................
No, it isn't. While I certainly do not support the excessive bonuses given to AA executives, the demands by AMR's pilots are absurd and greedy, and undeserving to the pilots. It's pretty disgusting the way AA pilots are acting. Shame on them.
Incitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 2708 posts, RR: 21 Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1136 times:
Quoting AA777ER (Reply 13): AA Hourly Captain Rate vs. Competitors*
Continental Fedex Southwest UPS Airborne Express American
Airborne Express, UPS and FedEx competitors to American? Really?
American's competitors are 1. United, 2. Delta, 3. Continental, 4. Northwest, 5. Southwest
Express shipment companies have pilots, that is true. Hospitals have doctors, so do airlines, but they don't compete with each other.
Quoting SpruceMoose (Reply 19): Who came up with the idea of basing everything on seniority?
I don't have an answer to that, but companies benefit from a seniority system as well. After investing so much in training personel, having a seniority system discourages people from going to a competitor. In the case of pilots, in an upturn, airlines would risk having a large number of them poached by competitors. The result would be a large increase in pay.
Itsnotfinals From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 25, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1126 times:
Quoting Incitatus (Reply 24): having a seniority system discourages people from going to a competitor
so do raises, extra vacation days, and 401K matching and vesting, all things you get without a protected seniority list at most all decent size US companies.
26 MaverickM11: Weren't they stock options (ie pay for performance that the union wants for everyone but themselves) that the union agreed to?
27 Incitatus: Part of the reward is that pilots got to keep their pensions. How does that figure into this calculation? At $1 million pension benefit per pilot and
28 NA747: What about the rest of the workgroup?..Flt attdts, rampers, agents...they, took a hit,too, and helped save the company. Though I recognize the fact t
29 Asuflyer05: A 12yr 737 CA at WN has the same block hour rate as a 12yr UA 777 CA. WN has one of the best if not the best narrowbody pay scales in the industry. I
30 Laxintl: Well AA is still not "financially healthy". If nothing goes wrong this will be only the 2nd year the airline has posted profitability after 5 success
31 Asuflyer05: The airline didn't waste time requesting concession from the pilots when the company started to slide. By your argument they should have waited a whi
32 MPDPilot: I wouldn't necessarily say they are back to where they where prior to 9/11. Wait I am lost here Pilots don't start higher than management. Assuming y
33 N710PS: There are certain cases where I am pro Union and others where I am not pro union. In the case of pay I am very pro union (duh) but for other issues I
34 DFWEagle: He is not comparing the management and pilot pay levels. He is talking about the demands that each group makes in the pilot contract negotiations. Th
35 MaverickM11: They never had to deal with the legacy of deregulation, however.
36 Itsnotfinals: No major airline captain is paid that badly for that matter. The point is that WN didn't have a massive raise, they got an inflation adjusted 4.7% ra
37 MaverickM11: Pilots won't find any sympathy from anyone in management for that exact reason, particularly the especially despicable APA.
38 Itsnotfinals: I agree compelety, the APA would just say there is no "I" in team but there is a "me". It's a shame they don't seem to care about the mechanics, disp
39 Incitatus: I very definately can relate to this argument - I've done my trips to Presque Isle, Maine in windy Winter nights and the job of a pilot there is real
40 Itsnotfinals: I don't think 25 an hour for a regional F/O is nearly enough. Luckily as 50 Seat RJ's are phased out and there are some retirements this will go up,
41 MaverickM11: They were a Texas only carrier, so regulation did not really apply to them until they opened their first city outside of Texas, New Orleans, a year a
42 Itsnotfinals: Agreed, but they have been around for quite some time now and other than the FA contract issue a few years ago (which was settled quickly) you don't
43 KL911: If you're that Jelaous, why don't you apply for a job with SWA? Not that difficult....
44 Asuflyer05: I wonder why? You are exactly right. There are too many people willing to work at low-paying airlines because they can fly a jet.
45 Gsosbee: Dueling public websites is not the answer to AMR's labor problems. Are there management types that are over compensated - sure; just as their are marg
46 MPDPilot: I was talking more generally. In general people in managment start out at a higher income. They may not all make it up to the big bucks but average s
47 Ckfred: The Wall Street Journal had an article about this some time ago. The point of the article is that labor should never compare their wages to management
48 Itsnotfinals: That is incorrect, many mid level managers at major airlines that have advanced degrees and may have been with the company for 15 years or have 15 ye
49 SPREE34: If people would only look beyond next week or the next contract.
50 ContnlEliteCMH: I think you should more carefully define "cost" when you say that stock bonuses carry zero cost. I guarantee you that the employees being given the b
51 Itsnotfinals: the 10,000 dollars does'nt ever show up , it's just the difference between the granted price and the exercised price basically that gets expensed to
52 Mir: Something has to determine who gets upgraded ahead of who. In most industries, performance is the deciding factor, but there are several problems wit
53 SpruceMoose: Well, what I'm mostly questioning is the idea that a captain with N years of experience, who shifts from airline A to airline B, starts out at the bot
54 Itsnotfinals: There really is no one "perfect system" when you have 1000s of employees. It seems in any company those with longevity get an entitlement attitude as
55 Tpac: Sooo glad I don't work for AA anymore. I'm just going to sit back and watch this train wreck unfold. When the stock price is $2 I might buy a few shar
56 Apodino: I am a devout Catholic so what I am going to say is partly based on my beliefs as a Catholic and the life that I try to live as such. If you ask me, t
57 AAJFKSJUBKLYN: You got it. AA pilots for the most part in my own opinion are Unfriendly, pompus, greedy folks. When your partner is a FA, and the pilot/captain congl
58 SpruceMoose: I'll leave the religious discussion for another forum, but I do want to address this. The shareholders _own the company_. They wouldn't invest their
59 AA717driver: A lot of this is posturing for negotiations. However, today, an AA S80 Captain makes what a TWA DC9 Captain made in 1988--AFTER THE DRACONIAN PAY CUTS
60 Peterpuck: The pilots are managers! The captains at an airline are the people managing the safe movement of the aircraft, which is what airlines do. Try running
61 AAJFKSJUBKLYN: The pilots are the managers, I dont think so. The pilots are (for the most part) showing their anger too greatly to the flying public. People are taki
62 AirCop: Can't disagree with this. Pilots in the big scheme of things are nothing more than line staff, the position has changed dramatically over the years,
63 AA717driver: Regional pilots are GROSSLY underpaid for what they do. But that's where the company recoups the higher cost of operating an RJ. Long-haul pilots are
64 Jacobin777: ......they may own the company, but when the company files for bankruptcy, they basically get nothing...its the "IOU's" that get the money (and decis
65 Flyby519: How come AA has the largest number of mgmt employees per aircraft out of any other carrier? I am sure if they reduced headcount in the office they cou
66 Sbworcs: Try running an airline without - cabin Crew, Cleaners. Ground Crew, Baggage Handlers, Customer service staff, Ticketing staff, office workers, etc...
67 PeterPuck: I never said that Pilots are able to make it run by themselves. I was answering to the pro management type people on here who seem to think that pilo
68 N710PS: AA's management is and untill the current group of people get out always will be. For that matter most upper management is. I used to (pre employment
69 Sbworcs: I wasn't saying you had compare a pilot to a Dr. i was making my own comparison to show that in the great Scheme of things Pilots are not that hard d
70 MaverickM11: Why is that sad? Aircraft are flown with up to three fewer crew members than just a couple decades ago, and crew unemployment or wages are pretty muc
71 Jetdeltamsy: Uh...I think you're the one who is WRONG. Southwest, in case you don't know it already, is the only airline that has been consistently profitable sin
72 MPDPilot: First off I think that all the licenses that pilots get it is almost as much extra as a masters and can take as long. Secondly I was refering to the
73 Itsnotfinals: Did you read the posts above? Only very senior managers with 10-15+ years of experience at the airlines make over 100,000 (if they are good, with a p
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