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SQ : LHR To US Cities Soon?  
User currently offlineSingaporegirl From Singapore, joined Oct 2000, 302 posts, RR: 9
Posted (6 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2533 times:

http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/?sid=287500

From the article : The SIA's aircraft can also pick up passengers from London's Heathrow Airport and fly them onwards to other cities, including those in the US. Does that mean we can do LHR - JFK, LHR - LAX, etc, soon?


Ladies & Gentlemen, we will now demonstrate the use of the safety equipment on this aircraft...
44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline9VSIO From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 708 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (6 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2533 times:
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With any luck, yes. I'm very excited about the open skies agreement. In fact, this puts a lot of strength into the rumours that SQ is going to sell off their stake in VS.


Me: (Lining up on final) I shall now select an aiming point. || Instructor: Well, I hope it's the runway...
User currently offlineSingaporegirl From Singapore, joined Oct 2000, 302 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (6 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2533 times:

Quoting 9VSIO (Reply 1):

if im not mistaken cx is also doing lhr-jfk right? how are they doing on that route? i've also heard more than once that the company is trying to part ways with vs, so maybe it's true then. do you guys think sin-lhr-jfk would be a very profitable route? would the 77w be best for the route or the a380?



Ladies & Gentlemen, we will now demonstrate the use of the safety equipment on this aircraft...
User currently offlineN383PA From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 104 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2533 times:

Quoting Singaporegirl (Reply 2):
if im not mistaken cx is also doing lhr-jfk right? how are they doing on that route?

The only airlines flying LHR-NYC at present are BA,AA,AI,KU,VS. But next year there will be a few more.  Smile


User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5619 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (6 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2533 times:

Quoting 9VSIO (Reply 1):
With any luck, yes. I'm very excited about the open skies agreement.

This, even if true, has NOTHING to do with the US/EU Open Skys agreement. The SIN government is not a party to that agreement, so it has no effect on SQ.

The right of any airline to operate 5th freedom services (which this would be) depends on the separate bilateral agreements between the airlines government and the government of the other two countries. In this case the SIN-UK(or EU) agreement would have to grant SQ the right to operate 5th freedom flights beyond the UK AND the agreement between SIN & the US government would have to allow for SQ to operate to the US and to exercise 5th freedom rights between the UK & the US. There is NO agreement between the US & UK(EU) reguarding the SQ operation, none is needed.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offline9MMAR From Malaysia, joined Jul 2006, 2109 posts, RR: 18
Reply 5, posted (6 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2533 times:

So what's the stand now? Can SQ operates Trans Atlantic flights from the UK?

From my understanding, the open skies agreement which will allow carriers from Singapore to have unlimited flights to the UK. Also they are allowed to fly unlimited destinations in the US from UK, as well as UK domestic flights. They can base aircraft in the UK for that purposes. Same for British carriers to Singapore.

It comes almost two decades after Singapore first requested it.


User currently offlineEasyJet From Australia, joined May 2001, 63 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2533 times:

Another article

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stori...rebusinessnews/view/303608/1/.html


User currently offlineAV8AJET From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1333 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (6 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2533 times:

I would love to see them in ATL but I doubt it  Sad


"To fly or not to fly there is no question!"
User currently offlineBOSSAN From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 255 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2533 times:

With the existing MALIAT treaty that Singapore and the US are both parties to, and this new Singapore-UK open skies treaty, I see no impediment to Singapore Airlines flying US-LHR starting at the end of March. Both treaties permit unlimited services to and beyond the other country; the UK one also allows airlines to base aircraft in each others' countries. I believe Singapore Airlines could even operate standalone UK-US services that never touch Singapore.

I'm surprised that the UK is continuing to sign aviation treaties, since the EU made such a strong emphasis on its primacy in that area during the EU-US negotiations.


User currently offlineSingaporeBoy From Singapore, joined May 2005, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 9 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2533 times:

Yup..i bet SQ will launch LHR-JFK as soon as they can get enough aircraft.....and then hopefully more flights to ORD...Washington DC,Boston....and maybe in my dreams Miami Atlanta....its time SQ introduces new destinations.

User currently offlineCDG From France, joined Sep 2007, 65 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 9 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2533 times:

Do they have enough slots ??

Cheers


User currently offlinePieinthesky From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 392 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (6 years 9 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2533 times:

Quoting SingaporeBoy (Reply 9):
Yup..i bet SQ will launch LHR-JFK as soon as they can get enough aircraft

They won't be doing anything of the sort until they find someone willing to sell and then part with serious $$$ to buy some more slots. At up to USD20 million a pair, they don't come cheap at LHR.


User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 38
Reply 12, posted (6 years 9 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2533 times:

Exactly how is it that the UK can negotiate an open skies agreement with Singapore, when the EU courts declared all such agreements with the US illegal?


ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineNorcal773 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1446 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (6 years 9 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2533 times:

Quoting Singaporegirl (Reply 2):



Quoting SingaporeBoy (Reply 9):

Do you guys know each other?  biggrin 

Anyways, UK-US route will be a carnage sooner or later. Everybody and their grandmother wants a piece of the pie. Good for us, the passengers.



If you're going through hell, keep going
User currently offlineBCAL From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 3384 posts, RR: 16
Reply 14, posted (6 years 9 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2533 times:

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 13):
Anyways, UK-US route will be a carnage sooner or later. Everybody and their grandmother wants a piece of the pie. Good for us, the passengers

Not necessarily. With all the carriers on the route it will soon be a case of seats chasing passengers, rather than passengers chasing seats, and the situation will become critical during the leaner off-season period. This will initially lead to fares being reduced to loss-making levels, so the airlines will have to resort to reserves to keep the services running.

Many of the US carriers have just emerged from Chapter 11 protection and do not have bottomless pits to resort to, but because of their hubs will see the need to keep services running. BA will hurt, but again they will probably use traffic as feeder for flights from LHR.

But smaller airlines like VS, BD, Eos, Maxjet, SilverJet etc will be vulnerable and could eventually pull out, leaving the majors on the route. Once the smaller airlines are off the scene, fares will rocket.



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User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5619 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (6 years 9 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2533 times:

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 12):
Exactly how is it that the UK can negotiate an open skies agreement with Singapore, when the EU courts declared all such agreements with the US illegal?

If the Eu has not signed an agreement with a country, then the members individual agreements are valid and remain in force IF & UNTIL the EU concludes a Union wide agreement, which then superceeds all indivual member agreements.

So the UK agreement with the US BII, remains in force until the EU wide agreement with the US comes into force in March 08.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (6 years 9 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2533 times:

Quoting BCAL (Reply 14):
Many of the US carriers have just emerged from Chapter 11 protection and do not have bottomless pits to resort to, but because of their hubs will see the need to keep services running. BA will hurt, but again they will probably use traffic as feeder for flights from LHR.

But smaller airlines like VS, BD, Eos, Maxjet, SilverJet etc will be vulnerable and could eventually pull out, leaving the majors on the route.

I think we can say that BD will be able to feed any US expansion from feed as well at LHR. I dont put them in the above bracket.


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7391 posts, RR: 17
Reply 17, posted (6 years 9 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2533 times:

Quoting BOSSAN (Reply 8):
I'm surprised that the UK is continuing to sign aviation treaties, since the EU made such a strong emphasis on its primacy in that area during the EU-US negotiations.



Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 12):
Exactly how is it that the UK can negotiate an open skies agreement with Singapore, when the EU courts declared all such agreements with the US illegal?

EU regulations permit member states to sign new bilateral air transport agreements with other states where there is no EU agreement and when the agreement meets certain minimum levels of liberalisation. This explains why the UK signed an Open Skies agreement with Canada last year and has now done so with Singapore.


User currently offlineANother From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 9 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2533 times:

Quoting 9MMAR (Reply 5):
They can base aircraft in the UK for that purposes.



Quoting BOSSAN (Reply 8):
I believe Singapore Airlines could even operate standalone UK-US services that never touch Singapore.

Not certain about this. 7ths are not part of the SIN-US agreement, which would be required for standalone operations even if the UK has given Singapore airlines 7ths. I suspect this is change of gauge rather than 7ths.

Quoting BOSSAN (Reply 8):
I'm surprised that the UK is continuing to sign aviation treaties, since the EU made such a strong emphasis on its primacy in that area during the EU-US negotiations.



Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 12):
Exactly how is it that the UK can negotiate an open skies agreement with Singapore, when the EU courts declared all such agreements with the US illegal?

The ECJ did not rule on the US-UK (Bermuda II) agreement it ruled on a number of pre-existing open skies agreements that the US had with countries like the Netherlands, France, Italy etc. It did NOT rule the agreements were 'illegal', what it did was rule that one clause was not compatible with EU law. The clause that required airlines designated by a Member State be nationals of THAT member state.

The EC has the mandate to renegotiate this clause (and only this clause) with third countries. US-EU was an exception where the European Council of Ministers (read Member States) gave the mandate to the EC to renegotiate all aspects of existing ASAs the MSs had with the US.

This week the EC was given a new mandate from the Council - to negotiate an open-skies agreement with Canada.

We shall see if the council is in the mood to add other countries to this very short list, however in the meantime each MS retains the right to negotiate / renegotiate ASAs with third countries - however they are expected to bring the ASA in compliance with EU law. Nothing in the press indicates that Singapore has agreed to the community air carrier clause, but even if they haven't this doesn't put the UK in breach for two reasons. 1. The agreement is more liberal than the previous agreement (which is a good thing), and 2. The UK only has to show they made best efforts, if Singapore refused to discuss it it well ...

[Edited 2007-10-04 07:02:01]

[Edited 2007-10-04 07:02:55]

User currently offlineCoal From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1992 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (6 years 9 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2533 times:

Yes, yes, yes!!! So now I can still go back to living in the US, being a PPS Clubber, and flying SQ accross the pond.

This feels like a dream. Somebody pinch me!

Cheers
Coal



Nxt Flts: VA SYD-CBR-SYD | VA SYD-OOL-SYD | JQ SYD-MEL | VA MEL-CBR-SYD | DL SYD-LAX-ATL-MIA | B6 FLL-DCA-BOS | DL BOS-L
User currently offlineBOSSAN From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 255 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 9 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2533 times:

Quoting ANother (Reply 18):
Not certain about this. 7ths are not part of the SIN-US agreement, which would be required for standalone operations even if the UK has given Singapore airlines 7ths. I suspect this is change of gauge rather than 7ths.

I see that the MALIAT agreement permits cargo sevenths but not passenger sevenths. Thank you for pointing that out.

Quote:
Article 2 1. c. the right, in accordance with the terms of their designations, to perform scheduled and charter international air transportation between points on the following route:
From points behind the territory of the Party designating the airline via that Party and intermediate points to any point or points in the territory of any other Party and beyond;
For all-cargo service or services, between the territory of the Party granting the right and any point or points;


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8283 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (6 years 9 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2533 times:
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They wanted JFK-LHR-SIN since they started flying via FRA to JFK, so the New York to London is the one they want. I wouldn't get too excited about all kinds of new flights SIA might have from LHR to the USA, they still have to get slots and keep there present 3 daily LHR to SIN flights.

User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (6 years 9 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2533 times:

It would be interesting if the *A came back with LHR-JFK flights offered by SQ.

User currently offlineANother From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (6 years 9 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2533 times:

Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 22):
It would be interesting if the *A came back with LHR-JFK flights offered by SQ.

Anyone know if code-share flights are envisioned?


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24858 posts, RR: 22
Reply 24, posted (6 years 9 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2533 times:

Quoting N383PA (Reply 3):
Quoting Singaporegirl (Reply 2):
if im not mistaken cx is also doing lhr-jfk right? how are they doing on that route?

The only airlines flying LHR-NYC at present are BA, AA ,AI, KU, VS. But next year there will be a few more.

CX has never operated LHR-JFK. If you go back far enough to 707 and DC-8 days, both QF and JL had 5th freedom service LHR-JFK as part of their round-the-world service. That ended about the time 747s replaced the 707s and DC-8s.

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 21):
They wanted JFK-LHR-SIN since they started flying via FRA to JFK, so the New York to London is the one they want.

SQ also operated 5th freedom service AMS-ORD for a while. I don't think UA was very happy with that operation by another Star Alliance carrier to a major UA hub and it didn't last very long.


25 Airbazar : This is huge. As the article indicates, SQ has been after this for years and years. The irony of course is that with open skies between Britain and th
26 David_itl : SQ was offered MAN-JFK rights years ago but insisted on having LHR-JFK. And they would be mad as hell should CX be allowed on LHR-JFK many years afer
27 Alangirvan : CX got the right to fly LHR-JFK at the time that Virgin got the right to fly beyond HKG to Sydney. They have not started using that right yet, but it
28 ConcordeBoy : No ...but they do however have the rights, they've chosen instead to use all of their slots for homehub services.
29 Scotron11 : From the article : The SIA's aircraft can also pick up passengers from London's Heathrow Airport and fly them onwards to other cities, including thos
30 Ryanair!!! : Me thinks the A380 would be great for this route because these sectors are in high demand. Don't count your coins so soon... Experts reckoned LHR is
31 GneissGuy : This is the biggest thing to have happened to Singapore's aviation sector and SIA, dwarfing even the upcoming launch of the first A380 flight. Without
32 Ryanair!!! : Dear Howie is probably squriming in his seat now... "I don't bloody believe this...! Crikey!!!"
33 Post contains images Gemuser : SQs still NOT getting Oz - USA rights!!! Gemuser
34 AA7295 : This leaves one last route for SQ to conquer..... Australia-USA (via Pacific Ocean). Chances of this happening are very slim. While I would prefer to
35 Worldrider : one thing is clear, if that happens, SQ will start a slots war that other airlines will have to reply to, that will spread to other big airports and a
36 Post contains images BrianDromey : LBA-LHR on an SQ 77W, Seriously though, I dont believe that SQ would make LON a mega hub, for two reasons a) Slot Availability (not the cash to pay f
37 Pieinthesky : What on earth are you talking about ??. Yes SQ has slots, and they use them to fly three times daily very full 744's to Changi, so they ain't going t
38 9VSIO : Maybe one day SQ will have a pilot hub in the UK and I can live my dream.... It has been pointed out that SQ's chairman is unhappy with the performanc
39 Airbazar : You missed my point entirely, or maybe I didn't explain it right. He understands what I was talking about.
40 SQ452 : AH YES! They have their way into BOS now (maybe through MAN?)! Does anyone know what UA did with their BOS>LHR slot once they shut that route down? W
41 SkyyMaster : That's my question. Just because open skies is happening, people here on a.net are putting all these new airlines and flights from LHR to the U.S. He
42 David_itl : SQ currently flies 5 weekly 772ERs into MAN which will go to daily from the beginning of the winter timetable. They have talked of going to 10 weekly
43 EIRules : Am I not right in saying that QF still has the rights to operate LHR-JFK and they, like CX, are currently choosing not to operate it, perhaps due to
44 BOSSAN : I believe this was actually the sale of the slots for United's once-daily Newark-Heathrow and Boston-Heathrow flights.
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