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AS Extends HNL-ANC Schedule  
User currently offlineUa2162 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 496 posts, RR: 2
Posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1725 times:

I guess bookings have been pretty good. From Pacific Business News:

"Alaska Airlines announced Wednesday it will expand its planned Anchorage-Honolulu service. The non-stop flights, set to begin Dec. 9, were to run daily through April 26, 2008, Alaska is now adding Friday and Saturday flights from April 27 through Oct. 25. One-way fares to Honolulu are selling for as low as $249."

Now the question is when will they begin OGG and KOA service?

36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1725 times:

Quoting Ua2162 (Thread starter):

Well, they have to sort of - since they bought out Hawaiian Vacations. Alas, no more HA 767s in ANC! Damnit!

And alas, AS will (already HAS) increased fares to over $700 r/t on the run. Try to find the fare quoted in the article on the AS web site for more than 2-3 seats per flight.  sarcastic 


Please note the article in today's Anchorage Daily News:


http://www.adn.com/money/industries/...lines/story/9352692p-9266858c.html

And the gouging of Alaskan's by OUR HOMETOWN AIRLINE continues . . .  sarcastic 

So long HA, I'll miss you.


User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5873 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1725 times:

And ANCFlyer echoes the sentiments felt by all of us.
Go figure, they put Hawaiian out of town, and then decide to run a twice weekly HNL flight. Won't make up for a twice weekly 767-300, but hey, whatever floats their boat.
 Yeah sure


User currently offlineChugach From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1041 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1725 times:

Bet you summer frequency is increased before it's all said and done, if not this year than next. And agreed about the prices. Who didn't see that one coming.

Alas, it's better than not having any service at all!



GO ROCKETS
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1725 times:

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 2):
Go figure, they put Hawaiian out of town, and then decide to run a twice weekly HNL flight. Won't make up for a twice weekly 767-300, but hey, whatever floats their boat.

And of course, as 'decent' as AS cabin service may be - not consistently of course - it will never, ever compare to the excellent service offered by HA.

Quoting Chugach (Reply 3):
And agreed about the prices. Who didn't see that one coming.

Only a fool didn't see that coming. McMurren predicted it immediately . . .


User currently offlineLHPDX From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 412 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1725 times:

I'm still waiting for Alaska's PDX-Hawaii announcement...........

User currently offline717-200 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 601 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1725 times:

Sorry to see the HA763's get replaced with AS738's and the fares going up to boot as well. I just cannot see being shoehorned into a 738 for 6 hours. I guess some people are going to get a case of claustrophobia when they go on their next trip down to the islands expecting a 763 and have to get on a 738.


72S 733 734 735 73G 738 742 752 763 E190 M82 M83
User currently offlineHAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2565 posts, RR: 53
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1725 times:

Quoting 717-200 (Reply 6):
I just cannot see being shoehorned into a 738 for 6 hours.

Probably a lot more than that. My guess is that, especially in the winter time, some of the AS flights will have to go through SEA because they won't be able to make it nonstop ANC-HNL against the winds. Plus, they won't be carrying a full load of pax because even with a tech stop, they can't fill the plane with bags and pax.

I'm not trying to be an AS basher, but I do know a lot about ETOPS operations; AS is treading on the razors edge of range and performance by doing these flights with the 738.

HAL



One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
User currently offlineYVR1968 From Australia, joined Feb 2004, 704 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1725 times:

Maybe they will even start YVR-HNL service.
Since Aloha discontinued service last year, there are no US carriers on this route.
Westjet, Air Canada and Air Pacific are the only carriers flying to Hawaii from YVR.


User currently offlineAlaska737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1063 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1725 times:

Quoting HAL (Reply 7):
I'm not trying to be an AS basher, but I do know a lot about ETOPS operations; AS is treading on the razors edge of range and performance by doing these flights with the 738.

first off i dont think they would put this much time and effort into the new service if they werent sure it would work and second of all i know Aloha did this route with a -700 and didnt have any problems


User currently offlineAloha73G From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2365 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1725 times:

Quoting Alaska737 (Reply 9):
first off i dont think they would put this much time and effort into the new service if they werent sure it would work and second of all i know Aloha did this route with a -700 and didnt have any problems

The -700 has quite a bit more range than the -800.....especially where ETOPS is concerned. It is one of the main reasons Aloha opted for the -700 over the -800.

HAL is right. AQ had trouble with range to/from YVR in the winter and I can imagine that AS will have a few problems on some days to/from ANC.

-Aloha!



Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
User currently offline717-200 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 601 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1725 times:

Maybe AS should get their -700's ETOPS certified like AQ.


72S 733 734 735 73G 738 742 752 763 E190 M82 M83
User currently offlineHikesWithEyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 816 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1725 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
And the gouging of Alaskan's by OUR HOMETOWN AIRLINE continues . . .

Ok, since EA CO AS hasn't responded yet, I will.
It's a business, not a charity.
 devil 

And, you're still buying me a Redhook when I make it up there.



First, benzene in my Perrier, and now this!
User currently offlineHikesWithEyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 816 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1725 times:

Quoting 717-200 (Reply 6):
I just cannot see being shoehorned into a 738 for 6 hours.

Well, AS has been flying transcon with 73G/738/739 for some time now, and a lot of those flights are in the
6 hour range. The load factors have been good, so what's the diff between ANC/HNL and SEA/DCA?



First, benzene in my Perrier, and now this!
User currently offlineHikesWithEyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 816 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1725 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
So long HA, I'll miss you.

If HA was making money on the route with their fares, wouldn't they have
stayed in the market, notwithstanding AS' purchase of Hawaiian Vacations?



First, benzene in my Perrier, and now this!
User currently offlineAloha73G From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2365 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1725 times:

Quoting HikesWithEyes (Reply 13):
The load factors have been good, so what's the diff between ANC/HNL and SEA/DCA?

ETOPS. These flights are over the longest stretches of open ocean on earth and require higher fuel reserves than trans-con flights as well as special crew training and equipment.

-Aloha!



Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
User currently offlineRyDawg82 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 867 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1725 times:

Quoting Aloha73G (Reply 15):
These flights are over the longest stretches of open ocean on earth and require higher fuel reserves than trans-con flights as well as special crew training and equipment.

ETOPS training had been in the works for a long time. I believe initially ANC based pilots and SEA based F/As will bid these routes. The aircraft do require additional training and equipment, but this doesn't greatly differentiate it from Transcon Ops. The fuel reserves will prove interesting; however, this isn't something AS casually forgot about when launching the route. Sure AQ ran into payload issues with the 73G, but I can imagine AS has thought this through and will make it work. Certainly doesn't mean there won't be payload issues at time. Even the ORD-ANC route isn't exempt from payload considerations at times, or at lease when it was operated by a 73G (factors included ATC and Winds).

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Photo © Alex Pan



Quoting HAL (Reply 7):
My guess is that, especially in the winter time, some of the AS flights will have to go through SEA because they won't be able to make it nonstop ANC-HNL against the winds. Plus, they won't be carrying a full load of pax because even with a tech stop, they can't fill the plane with bags and pax.

HAL Just curious, do the winds aloft differ that greatly between a ANC-HNL and SEA-HNL flight? While I don't work for AS, I certainly doubt that a SEA tech stop would be considered along the ANC-HNL flight.
ANC-HNL 2413 nm
SEA-HNL 2326 nm
ANC-SEA 1259 nm
Im sure the folks in dispatch and weight & balance would put other options to work before making said journey, considering the routes differ by only 87 nm. I guess if the jetstream was kickin' good enough from the south I could see the thought behind this. You always have great insight, so just hoping to learn something.   


Ryan

[Edited 2007-10-05 18:46:16]


You can take the pup out of Alaska, but you can't take the Alaska out of the pup.
User currently offlineHikesWithEyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 816 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1725 times:

Quoting Aloha73G (Reply 15):
ETOPS. These flights are over the longest stretches of open ocean on earth and require higher fuel reserves than trans-con flights as well as special crew training and equipment

I think you misunderstood me. I was talking about being in a 738 versus a 763 for 6 hours. The poster I was
responding to had commented that people wouldn't want to be in a 738 for that long, but it has been proven
that they will fly on AS' transcons.

Also, as far as the payload restrictions go, it is certain that some seats will be blocked due to this, but there
has been a recent FAA change as FAR (pun intended) as fuel reserves go. This should help both the payload
AS can carry in either direction, and the overall profitabilty of the routes.



First, benzene in my Perrier, and now this!
User currently offlineLono From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1335 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1725 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
And the gouging of Alaskan's by OUR HOMETOWN AIRLINE continues . . .

Indeed!...

Quoting HikesWithEyes (Reply 12):
Ok, since EA CO AS hasn't responded yet, I will.
It's a business, not a charity.

AS's day will come... Oh yes their day will come...

Quoting HikesWithEyes (Reply 14):
If HA was making money on the route with their fares, wouldn't they have
stayed in the market, notwithstanding AS' purchase of Hawaiian Vacations?

...

It was a charter.... Now AS Will continue to have the good people in Alaska pay for their lower 48 battles....



Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
User currently offlineHa763 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 3663 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1725 times:
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Quoting Alaska737 (Reply 9):
of all i know Aloha did this route with a -700 and didnt have any problems

AQ routinely left bags behind for HA to take to HNL.


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1725 times:

Quoting HikesWithEyes (Reply 12):
Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
And the gouging of Alaskan's by OUR HOMETOWN AIRLINE continues . . .

Ok, since EA CO AS hasn't responded yet, I will.
It's a business, not a charity.

Ha Ha Ha . . . yeah, I expected to see him pop in ASAP and tell me to pound sand.

Business it may be, but the fleecing of Alaskans by the monopoly that is AS continues . . . unabated. We subsidize AS operations in the Lower 48 along the West Coast so they can continue to 'compete' with other carriers low fares.

Sorry, those are simply the facts. Ignore them if you want.

Quoting HikesWithEyes (Reply 12):
And, you're still buying me a Redhook when I make it up there.

Absolutely! Or we could just grab an Alaska Summer Ale from the keg on my bar . . .  biggrin 

Quoting HikesWithEyes (Reply 14):
Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
So long HA, I'll miss you.

If HA was making money on the route with their fares, wouldn't they have
stayed in the market

Charter Operation. Not regular schedule. I'd love to see HA stay here though, with their 767s.

Quoting Lono (Reply 18):
Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
And the gouging of Alaskan's by OUR HOMETOWN AIRLINE continues . . .

Indeed!...

See, I told you . . . .


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29802 posts, RR: 58
Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1725 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
And the gouging of Alaskan's by OUR HOMETOWN AIRLINE

They aren't our hometown airline. They are just another Seattle based entity that rape Alaska, just like the fishing industry before statehood.

Quoting HikesWithEyes (Reply 14):
If HA was making money on the route with their fares, wouldn't they have
stayed in the market, notwithstanding AS' purchase of Hawaiian Vacations?

Hard to loose money when it is a charter and somebody else is paying the bills.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offline717-200 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 601 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1725 times:

It kinda surprised me in the aftermath of WN's rejected bid to transfer service from KSEA to KBFI they did not start some SEA-ANC and/or FAI flights to get back at the grinning eskimo. But then again while folks in AK complain about being turned up side down and shaken out when they go on AS, they seem to be addicted to their Mileage Plan like crack addicts. But then again this is a symptom of why many of the US legacies are screwed up. The traveling public has traded in good service for that ever elusive carrot called free award travel and upgrades to F.


72S 733 734 735 73G 738 742 752 763 E190 M82 M83
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29802 posts, RR: 58
Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1725 times:

Quoting 717-200 (Reply 22):
they seem to be addicted to their Mileage Plan like crack addicts

It is the only one with any meaning since AS is the only airline on most routes, ditto for their partner companies up here.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineSocalatc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 528 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1725 times:

Quoting Lono (Reply 18):
It was a charter.... Now AS Will continue to have the good people in Alaska pay for their lower 48 battles....

Dont Alaskan's get money every year from the government just because they live in Alaska? Im sure operating costs to fly intra Alaska and from Alaska are much higher than the lower 48.. So it makes sense to me that the fares would be a little higher. Do Alaskan's also bitch and moan about paying more for grocery's? Gas? cloths? ext... Why is airfare any different?


25 Post contains links RyDawg82 : I didn't think I would be discussing this in the CivilAv room; however, the Alaska Permanent Fund was established in 1980 to share the wealth of the
26 L-188 : They haven't had a good one of those since MarkAir went under in 96. Yest we do. As RwDawg82 pointed out, it is a single competitor market and has re
27 WeAreUnited : Wait.... MarkAir went under in '96 or '82?!? I'm thinking '82 but I'm not sure.
28 L-188 : Woops, it was 96.....Wien went under in 84.
29 Alaska737 : yeah thats a good point well they still have PFD sales..they just might not be as big as when they had a competitor, but they still have them accordi
30 L-188 : No, it is a completely irrelevent point. Thanks for confirming what I was saying, the quality of the offers have tanked since the last true competito
31 Alaska737 : well honestly every Alaskan on this site does nothing but bitch about Alaska Airlines, and considering that they are the only lifeline to a number of
32 L-188 : You think there might be a reason for that? A lot of those towns would be better served with multiple flights of smaller aircraft then a jet a day. T
33 Alaska737 : well AS doesnt have anything smaller than a -700 and i dont think anyone would want to be stuck in a B-1900 going from ANC-OME i honestly believe tha
34 Lono : Let us not forget the U.S. Government pays AS to fly to some of these places..... I think that some places in Alaska do not need a Federal subsidy...
35 L-188 : As much as I hate to say Ted isn't helping the situation with the bypass mail program. The new rules are ment to favor mixed jet traffic over cargo a
36 Lono : Yes James Flood actually sold Wien twice.... once to the Employees and again after the Employees lost their shirts and Flood got the whole thing back
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