GF-A330 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2001, 1643 posts, RR: 3 Posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2844 times:
Gulf Air is preparing to make an announcement about its plans for future growth at next month's Dubai International Air Show.
The airline will outline the purchase or lease plan of new aircraft at the show.
Acting president and chief executive Bjorn Naf revealed that the airline is in talks with Airbus and Boeing and is preparing to unveil fleet details, which could differ from the commitment to an all-Airbus fleet, made by the airline in April.
"We want to go out at Dubai air show with our detailed plans for the fleet and the aircraft," Mr Naf said at a Gulf Air media ghabga.
The announcement could signal a departure from the fleet of 28 Airbus outlined in former chief executive Andre Dose's 'Making Gulf Air Well' turnaround strategy.
Behramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4441 posts, RR: 43 Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2844 times:
there are no internal rumblings too to report concerning the new fleet that Naf and his men have visioned for GF for the next decade or so.
the only thing that was mentioned before Hogan resigned was that GF was going to place an order for 6 B 772LRs to enable nonstop USA and SYD flights from BAH...now that hes gone and the business strategy of the airline has taken a complete U TURN, this seems unlikely.
A couple of B 738s are being wet leased from XL Airways and will fly the BAH-DXB route.
So now at DXB, we can expect official announcements from GF, QR, KU & EK concerning their new plane orders
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26718 posts, RR: 83 Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2844 times:
Quoting Behramjee (Reply 1): the only thing that was mentioned before Hogan resigned was that GF was going to place an order for 6 B 772LRs to enable nonstop USA and SYD flights from BAH...now that hes gone and the business strategy of the airline has taken a complete U TURN, this seems unlikely.
With EK and QR using the 77L for long-range ops, however, one wonders if GF might still pull the trigger.
I'd expect them to be an A350 customer, but with QR's huge order and EK on the fence, maybe they'll be a surprise 787 customer...
IAHFLYER From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 311 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2844 times:
Quoting Behramjee (Reply 1): So now at DXB, we can expect official announcements from GF, QR, KU & EK concerning their new plane orders Smile
I can't wait to see how big some of these orders will be!!!! Also will any to new routes be announced here?
Little airports with the big jets are the best!! Floyd
Jacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 61 Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2844 times:
Quoting Behramjee (Reply 1):
the only thing that was mentioned before Hogan resigned was that GF was going to place an order for 6 B 772LRs to enable nonstop USA and SYD flights from BAH...now that hes gone and the business strategy of the airline has taken a complete U TURN, this seems unlikely.
Didn't GF state they will become an "all-Airbus" carrier in the future?
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26718 posts, RR: 83 Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2844 times:
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 4): Didn't GF state they will become an "all-Airbus" carrier in the future?
PEET7G From Hungary, joined Jan 2007, 692 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2844 times:
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 4): Didn't GF state they will become an "all-Airbus" carrier in the future?
Well that was a pretty easy milestone to hit in the business plan
I expect another good show for Airbus at Dubai. B might be coming in with a few surprises, but with the 787-10 still nowhere in sight. I pretty much expect A to win the EK, EY, QR orders, and if GF pulls the trigger I think they will stick with Arbii equipments too.
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26718 posts, RR: 83 Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2844 times:
Quoting PEET7G (Reply 7): I expect another good show for Airbus at Dubai. B might be coming in with a few surprises, but with the 787-10 still nowhere in sight. I pretty much expect A to win the EK, EY, QR orders, and if GF pulls the trigger I think they will stick with Arbii equipments too.
On the plus side for Boeing, Airbus securing the Middle East market would tie up enough production to leave the rest of the world open for the 777NG/787HGW/Y3.
Wsp From Germany, joined May 2007, 444 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2844 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 8): On the plus side for Boeing, Airbus securing the Middle East market would tie up enough production to leave the rest of the world open for the 777NG/787HGW/Y3.
The best way to secure the biggest slice of the market is to provide as much production capacity as possible. Boeing could not anticipate the demand when they planned, but Airbus can, and should use that to their advantage.
Their choice of shells vs. barrels is hopefully a sign that they pay as much attention to cheap and uncomplicated manufacturing as to the aircraft's economics.
Jacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 61 Reply 12, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2844 times:
Quoting Zeke (Reply 11): Quoting Behramjee (Reply 1):
So now at DXB, we can expect official announcements from GF, QR, KU & EK concerning their new plane orders
From what I hear, expect hundreds of aircraft to be ordered/MOU/commitments, mainly wide bodies, some narrow bodies as well.
Would not be surprised to see over 20 billion dollars (at list price) to be announced.
....lets see how EADS stock reacts to this news...
Zeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 7725 posts, RR: 73 Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2844 times:
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 12): ....lets see how EADS stock reacts to this news..
I am expecting orders on all fronts ...business jets, helicopters, turboprops, narrow bodies, and wide bodies... from A & B as well as a heap of other manufacturers...
I think the A380 entry in service will do more to bolster the EADS stock than more orders, last year Airbus announced $9.6 billion dollars of orders (actual not list price) with little change to the share price. Investors needs these orders to be converted into cash flow via delivery of aircraft.
The A380 delays were seen by the market as a drop in the share price, likewise today with predictions of 787 delays we have seen a drop in the Boeing share price.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
Jacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 61 Reply 14, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2844 times:
Quoting Zeke (Reply 13): likewise today with predictions of 787 delays we have seen a drop in the Boeing share price.
Scary thought, but I think most A.netters know more than these aviation "anal-ists"
""The acknowledged challenges make it more appropriate for Boeing to say while they hope to stay close to schedule, it is more likely that the program could slip by 4 to 6 months," said Joseph Campbell, a Lehman Brothers analyst, in a note to clients."
..even the most pessimistic people dont' think its going to be that long...
Fortunately Boeing stock is still near an all-time high...
Quoting Zeke (Reply 13): I think the A380 entry in service will do more to bolster the EADS stock than more orders
......until EADS fixes is plethora of problems and starts improving its margins, its stock really isn't going to do too much.....given it is losing money (Airbus is at least), it will take a few years before its profit margins are even in the mid-single digits (the profit margin values are quoted from Gallois)....
Boeing recently had around 10.2% profit margins.....
Personally I hope EADS stock tank so I can pick some shares up on the cheap...
Zeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 7725 posts, RR: 73 Reply 15, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2844 times:
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 14):
......until EADS fixes is plethora of problems and starts improving its margins, its stock really isn't going to do too much.....given it is losing money (Airbus is at least), it will take a few years before its profit margins are even in the mid-single digits (the profit margin values are quoted from Gallois)....
"plethora of problems", please let us all know what they are !!!!
"given it is losing money (Airbus is at least)" please tell me more, I seen in H1 2007 presentation by Hans Peter Ring, did not see any "losing money" by Airbus, it is still positive (EBIT), just not as positive as the past.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
Jacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 61 Reply 17, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2844 times:
Quoting Zeke (Reply 15): "given it is losing money (Airbus is at least)" please tell me more, I seen in H1 2007 presentation by Hans Peter Ring, did not see any "losing money" by Airbus, it is still positive (EBIT), just not as positive as the past.
Maybe Mr. Ring needs to update his information he's presenting or stop posting incorrect information...
"Airbus parent EADS posted a multimillion euro quarterly loss Friday and warned that Airbus would "display another substantial loss in 2007.” The company blamed a weaker dollar and major delays at its Airbus unit dragged its 2006 profit down.
“We are disappointed, but the only cause for the difficulties of EADS are concentrated on Airbus and it’s a problem we have to solve,” said Louis Gallois, CEO of EADS, to “Squawk Box Europe.”
The Amsterdam-based company lost 768 million euros ($1.01 billion) in the fourth quarter compared with a profit of 405 million euros a year earlier."*
*-cnbc.com
Quoting Zeke (Reply 15):
"plethora of problems", please let us all know what they are !!!!
....Power 8 might be considered to address "one problem"...but it certainly is a plethora of problems which Power 8 is attempting to concurrently address.....the continuous falling of the dollar is also a problem which has been mentioned a few times by Airbus.
""For 2007, our priorities are to drive operational improvements, restore the group's credibility and build a leaner and more dynamic EADS.""**
**-cnbc.com
I don't know about you, but that doesn't sound like everything is comletely "peachy-keen" and firing on all cylinders..
Jacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 61 Reply 19, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2844 times:
Quoting Scbriml (Reply 18):
Maybe you could share the link because that reads like a report from 2006 predicting a loss in 2007.
...its actually a saved file so I dont have the link for it, however its dated March 09, 2007...
..and, while I'm at it...I'll add..an majour insider-trading problem also...
"The Senate's questioning adds to the growing uproar in France over allegations this week that executives and large shareholders may have been aware of the delays when they sold shares. State-owned bank Caisse des Depots et Consignations's agreement to buy a part of Lagardere's stake in EADS before the delays were made public prompted questions from Senators about how much the government knew and when."
Reggaebird From Jamaica, joined Nov 1999, 1169 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2844 times:
To stay competitive with the other carriers in the region gulf would have to order A380's and A350's or B787's. However, I think that there are too many uber carriers in that region. Maybe Gulf should take the path that Royal Jordanian has taken. It could be the "reasonable" carrier in the gulf and cater to the regular people. If that's the case, they could modernize their fleet without going for the super-heavy metal.
Scouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3254 posts, RR: 10 Reply 22, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2844 times:
Quoting Behramjee (Reply 1): So now at DXB, we can expect official announcements from GF, QR, KU & EK concerning their new plane orders
So what does everyone think that these guys are going to order? Here's my take
GF - not sure but expecting both NBs and WBs
QR - Confirmation that the UFO 787s are them - no new orders
KU - A350s - haven't they just let some 787 spots go?
EK - firming of the 8 extra A380s and possibly the mythical 50 + 50 787/A350 annoucement
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26718 posts, RR: 83 Reply 23, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2844 times:
Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 22): KU - A350s - haven't they just let some 787 spots go?
KU had 787s on order via ALFACO [sic], but a dispute within the Kuwaiti government (?) scuttled that deal. They are expected to order 787s directly, instead.
Scouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3254 posts, RR: 10 Reply 24, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2844 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 23): KU had 787s on order via ALFACO [sic], but a dispute within the Kuwaiti government (?) scuttled that deal. They are expected to order 787s directly, instead.
Thanks, I couldn't remember what they were looking at doing now that the original order has gone.
25 Lumberton: I am expecting a big show for Airbus, especially the A350 at EK. WRT Gulf Air, when KU backed out of their earlier commitment to lease 787s from ALAF
26 Jacobin777: ...I didn't make that statement.... Given that Boeing hasn't finalised the B787-10 yet, I expect EK to go via the A350 also....and I don't expect to
27 Lumberton: My apologies, you did not. Don't know how I messed that up. Here's the statement I intended to quote with the real author: Still think the "wild card
28 Scouseflyer: By mythical I meant that I've been reading A net since before QF placed their first 787 order (nearly 2 years ago now) and EK were talking about orde
29 Columba: I think we will see an order for 787s.
30 Jacobin777: ...though I think a B787-8 and B787-9 combo would be the best for GF, I still think this is Airbus order to lose... LoL...I wasn't being harsh or any
31 Stitch: I agree EK will also place an A350 order, but it may not be as "epic" as has long been rumored. We could see something like 50 firm and 50 options, wh
32 Behramjee: everyone seems to be forgetting the 10 firm + 10 options for Boeing 747-800 passenger models that EK is rumored to be ordering at the DXB air show I
33 Stitch: If that happens, I'll be shocked. Pleased, but shocked. Well the 787-8 has near-identical floorspace to the A332, so GF's cabin should fit fine, but
34 Jacobin777: .... ....I agree, GF could even possibly decrease the amount of Y space, and increase the J/F space to provide excellent service... ...a recent artic
35 Astuteman: Although closer inspection reveals much of last year's and this year's (so far) losses to be a "clearing the decks" or "front loading" of the program
36 Jacobin777: ....while I think 2008 will be a positive year for Airbus , I'm not as sanguine as you are on the 7% margins....I think 2-3% would be an achievable g
37 Astuteman: I guess my point was that if you hadn't seen so many exceptionals going through, current margin would be around 9% or so. 7% is in fact a real deteri
38 Jfk777: Gulf Air needs 777-200LR for nonstops to New York and Sydney. ITs time to decide if its going to survive or die with Emirates next door.
39 Jacobin777: ......since most of the exceptionals have been driven out (as you state-and which do ostensibly seemed to be cleared out-especially regarding the A38
40 Cartoonranger: I think it will survive, but to me it is going to change competition to the likes of Oman Air and finish trying to compete with the big boys. It's pa
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I somehow have a feeling the 787 will be chosen but who know anything can happen.
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