Phil747 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 14 posts, RR: 0 Posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4924 times:
Landing on a BA777 on BA164 ex TLV at LHR on the south runway, the pilot aborted the landing at what seemed to be only a few feet above the runway, (we had certainly passed the BA maintenance base) pulled up sharply on full power and did a 30 mile go around before landing 15 minuted later. He claimed that ATC had not given him clearance to land. My question is how could he h
ChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4421 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4924 times:
That happened to me many years ago on a TWA L-1011 going from Boston to St. Louis. We weren't as close to the ground as you were, but we were mere seconds from touching down. Same thing: Power spooled up, and we zoomed around to try again. Cause: an F-16 landed ahead of us and hadn't cleared the runway.
Later that same year, also STL and also a TWA L-1011. This one inbound from SFO. We were only a few seconds from touching down, but there was a decided 'list' to the plane on the right side--our side. I was on the window and realized that our right gear were going to slam onto the runway real hard at the angle we were at. Pilot spooled up and flew us on a REAL tight circuit around St. Louis Airport. Felt like a fighter jet, the tightness of the loop we made in order to save our slot.
BlueShamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 3433 posts, RR: 21
Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4924 times:
Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 1): Clearance to land was given to the pilot - but it was based on the landing aircraft ahead clearing the runway in a timely manner, or some aircraft crossing the runway clearing the runway.
Such a clearance can't be issued at night. I therefore presume the landing was expecting a very late landing clearance which turned into a very late go-around due to an aircraft or vehicle on the runway not vacating in time.
So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
BA777ER236 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 278 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4924 times:
Quoting Phil747 (Thread starter): the pilot aborted the landing at what seemed to be only a few feet above the runway
Sounds like a perfectly normal 'go-around' at a busy LHR. The runways at LHR are worked to capacity at some times of the day, and occasionally, for a variety of reasons, the preceding aircraft does not clear the landing runway in time, and a go-around results. These manoeuvres, whilst they may be alarming to some passengers, are perfectly safe and practised, and if you don't do one in 6 months of actual flying, you certainly then do a few in the simulator every 6 months - many of them on one engine!
It looks from your post as if you didn't believe the Captain's PA, but there is no reason to doubt what he said, and no reason for him to falsify the information given to you.
Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 1): Clearance to land was given to the pilot - but it was based on the landing aircraft ahead clearing the runway in a timely manner
You would be correct in the US, however, in Europe, landing clearance is only given when the runway is clear, unless a 'land after' clearance is given (strict separation criteria). 'Land after' clearances are not given at night. In this particular case, a go-around would have resulted from a lack of clearance to land by ATC, or a positive instruction to 'GO-AROUND' by them. This sometimes happens at very low altitude, as described by Phil747.
VgnAtl747 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1536 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4924 times:
Missed approaches are very common and you shouldn't worry about it. It's a normal procedure, and has been said, pilots are always prepared and setup for it.
There is a video out there somewhere of a VS atlantic crossing, one of those actual produced retail videos where they film the flight from the flightdeck. The captain actually explains how they setup the go-around procedure just in case...
BeechNut From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 787 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4924 times:
I've been through numerous airliner go-arounds. A bunch of them were weather related (runway not in sight at minimums, or in sight but unstabilized approach), at least two were related to traffic not clearing the runway fast enough (once in a Dash 8, the other time in a 767-233). One was in a 737 in Kunsan, Korea, on very short final, because an F-16 behind had declared an emergency (low fuel I suspect) and we went around to let him in.
There is nothing "scary" about a go-around. It is a well-trained, non-emergency procedure and in fact is a viable option on any approach if circumstances (traffic, weather, etc) dictate one. The only thing I dislike about a go-around is that from a pax perspective, it is a pain in the a$$; setting up for a new approach takes time. The 767 go-around was on my very last leg, late at night, of a long trip from Korea and I was eager to get home; fortunately the captain pulled off his very best C150 pilot imitation, and we did a very tight visual circuit on 24L at YUL, coming back to land, cutting the extra time to a minimum. Fortunately it was late at night and there was little traffic (except for the bugger ahead of us who dawdled clearing the runway).
Cloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2458 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4924 times:
Quoting Phil747 (Thread starter): only a few feet above the runway, (we had certainly passed the BA maintenance base)
Passing the BA mantenance hanger is roughly half a mile from touch and you should be at 160ft, 13-15 seconds from touchdown.
There is on average 1 go around per day and touch luck you were on that one of the day. Nothing special about it.
Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 3): Such a clearance can't be issued at night. I therefore presume the landing was expecting a very late landing clearance which turned into a very late go-around due to an aircraft or vehicle on the runway not vacating in time.
Conditional clearances are only issued in visual conditions.
Jerald01 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 161 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4924 times:
The only go-around that I have experienced on a commercial flight was as a pax in a Continental Airlines Electra back in the 60's. IIRC we were landing in daylight at Phoenix, AZ. On VERY short final the pilot executed a VERY steep 360 at VERY low altitude, and during the turn we pax heard four distinct "whoosh" sounds that seemed to come from outside the aircraft.
After a quick roll-out from the 360 the pilot (almost immediately) literally slammed the aircraft onto the runway, giving everyone a pretty good jolt. After turning off the runway and while taxiing in, the pilot made an announcement something like this:
"Ladies and gentlemen, we, and the Navy Blue Angels who were doing barrel rolls down the runway while we were trying to land, wish to welcome you to Phoenix."
Talk about an ATC screw-up!
Well, that wasn't the end of it. After we departed the gate for the outbound flight we were taxiing alongside the runway (at a pretty good clip, I might add), when, all of a sudden, the pilot makes an abrupt stop. He turns the plane around, and, during the turn, we pax got a good view of WHY he had stopped: there was a trench dug completely across the taxiway!
I wouldn't have wanted to have been in that tower when the pilot got finished chewing out some controllers....
"There may be old pilots, and there may be bold pilots, but there are darn few green cows"
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 22174 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4924 times:
Your go around sounds routine. I've been on a less routine one, though I hear not uncommon, at LGA. Due to winds, the 757 "floated" a bit on landing and hit too far down the runway, so the pilot did a touch and go and we landed like 10 minutes later. He said it was preferable to stopping in the river. Seemed reasonable!
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
RIXrat From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 804 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4924 times:
A few years ago I was coming in from LHR to RIX on a BA A320 and we were lined up perfectly for the landing. This was at about 2330 and we were about 10 feet off the ground, when the pilot suddenly applied the throttle to take us around again. While doing the circle, he came on the intercom and said, "Whoops!" That's it.
I was going to ask what had happened after we landed safely, but the cockpit door remained shut. I couldn't see any other active traffic at the airport. Strange.
Kaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 13265 posts, RR: 34
Reply 13, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4924 times:
I guess people could expect to get a little more than "whoops" after something like that, but as has been said earlier in the thread, it's a perfectly normal occurrence. In the old days, when flying was fun and you could get jump seats for landing, I regularly heard crews being told to "expect late clearance for landing", because of other aircraft on the runway; we always got down, but the aircraft is always set up for whatever the G/A procedure is and should the need arise, the aircraft will go around, and this can often be at the direction of ATC.
So, don't worry about it ... two approaches for the price of one; you did well!
RIHNOSAUR From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 362 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4926 times:
just to add to the discussion, it does not only have to be another aircraft involved to created a missed approach, I for one, was was landing at SJO (which is notorious place for wet and foggy conditions),...we were coming down on AA's A300 bird and i saw out the window how we had just descended just below the cloud celling and actually saw what seemed to be the ground....it was night so it was shard to see
but we all of a sudden pulled back up.....I have never experienced so many g's ...the pilot really "stepped on the gas" (or pressed on the lever i shall say) and we quickly got out of there and began to circle for a while...
the weather was so bad ... to make the story short we landed in LIR Liberia.....
we had to spend the night there....it was a mess...and it was awkward since LIR was NOT prepared to take A300 maxed out on people ......
needles to say.. they couldn't even get a tall enough ladder to get us out.....that was so fun!!!!...
to make matters worse... a delta 737 (or maybe 757) and a continental 737 and a white cargo A300 (which I have seen the pictures of around anet somewhere but I can't remember the carrier's name) had to land there as well...
these planes which came later...were able unload before we did cause they did have ladders that reached their height! people were so confused....hahahah but I wasn't...sorry (self gloss)
The cool thing is that, the next day, it turned to be my first trip ever from Guanacaste to San Jose in such style....
30 min trip from LIR to SJO in an A300!!!!! talk about class and what a unique experience...I had never traveled that fast from city to city in Costa Rica
sorry to get of topic..but the point was that weather can also cause a missed approach
particles and waves are the same thing, but who knows what that thing is...
BeechNut From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 787 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4924 times:
Interestingly in my own plane (Beech Sundowner), I have only had one non-intentional go-around (that is, not for practice) since I bought it in 2003, and maybe only 1 or two since 1999 when I resumed flying after a hiatus of many years. The last one was on a crosswind landing. Crosswinds aren't too much of an issue but this one was gusting from slightly headwind to slightly tailwind for the single available runway. When I began my flare, the wind shifted from slight head to fairly significantly tail, and the sudden loss of airspeed caused my plane to start sinking like a stone, while at the same time I was dancing on the rudder pedals to keep lined up. I applied full throttle and got the hell out of there, and came 'round and landed on 23 instead of 05, with no further problems.
Go-arounds are nothing special, just a bit out of the ordinary.
SAS330GOT From Sweden, joined May 2004, 252 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4924 times:
Since this thread has become something like a forum to tell your best fishing-tale (it was thiiiis big.. ) I'll just give my contribution.
I've experienced quite a few go-arounds, one of the funniest was landing in malta where it actually became more of a touch and go when the pilot came on the PA and said something like "sorry for the inconvenience but there was a helicopter that decided he had the right of way".
I had a quite scary go around on a BA flight from LHR to GOT one early february morning though that actually scared me. GOT is only a CAT II listed airport so minimums are quite tight and mornings are often quite foggy. This time around it was foggy and very windy with gusts at galeforce. It had bee quite a jumpy decent and the final really tossed the poor plane around and just before the flare we got a really strong crosswind gust that more or less threw the plane towards the grass (all I could see through my window was the lawn) and the pilot reacted with full thrust and up we went again. That is actually the only time I've been scared on a plane. I thought that we were about to land on the grass. But around we went and landed safely.
I kinda enjoy go arounds.. Just fun with something out of the ordinary. And I do imagine the pilots enjoy it to since they actually have to do something out of the ordinary.. Or am I wrong?
Awthompson From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 584 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4924 times:
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 12): Here is an aborted flight I had on an AA MadDog-80....take a look at how low we got to.....
The video raises a major question for me. It does not seem to be a routine go around.......
He turned left directly into the path of the parallel landing aircraft almost immediately after positive rate of climb!
What if the parallel traffic had also decided to execute a late go around? It doesn't look good to me. Was he avoiding something quite close ahead and had no choice in the direction of his turn? This cannot have been the published go-around course?
With workload on the flight deck and the short time period before the left turn, it is unlikely that the captain looked back over his left shoulder to ensure that the parallel traffic had landed. The only possibility is that the tower controller called the go-around and gave the pilot that left turn instruction having verified that the parallel traffic had landed successfully.
Boston92 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3390 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4924 times:
Being a controller at busy airports is a true art form. At a place like LHR, the controller does everything he/she can to separate the aircraft with just the right amount of space and time, but things don't go right sometimes and a go around is necessary.
"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
ThreeIfByAir From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1094 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4924 times:
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 12): Here is an aborted flight I had on an AA MadDog-80....take a look at how low we got to.....
Sweet video! Looks like 27L at ORD.
Judging by when you can see the 32R markings, you must have been roughly over the 27L numbers before the go-around. What would make the pilots decide to abort landing only feet above the runway? Surely an airplane would be noticeable from further away and I can't imagine ramp vehicles or the like roaming the runway at a major airport.
It is not scary to a pilot, but it certainly is to a passenger who has no clue why the airplane is doing something it normally wouldn't be doing at that point in time. Anytime a plane does something that it normally doesn't do, it is very concerning to the passengers. As far as the passengers know, their airplane could be performing an evasive maneuver to avoid a collision.
An optimist robs himself of the joy of being pleasantly surprised
Jacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 15374 posts, RR: 58
Reply 24, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4924 times:
Quoting FiveMileFinal (Reply 16):
I love how the baby starts crying on cue when the Mad Dog goes TOGA. Hilarious.
LoL...when the baby grows up, it will have nightmares about flying on a MadDog for rest of its life after that "traumatic" experience..
Quoting Awthompson (Reply 19): The video raises a major question for me. It does not seem to be a routine go around.......
...actually I was spotting @ ORD about 10 days ago and I did indeed see an aborted flight in that nature...it was an AA B763ER...
Quoting Awthompson (Reply 19): He turned left directly into the path of the parallel landing aircraft almost immediately after positive rate of climb!
...the plane parallel to us (arriving on 27L) was a MX A32X....it landed after the aborted flight so even if that plane had to abort, we wouldn't have had too much of a problem...I suspect ATC would have made the MX take lower rate of climb and/or make it take a more extreme left bank.....
..thanks.. got lucky on that one! Actually, it was 27R....
Quoting Boston92 (Reply 22):
Well judging that that diagram is to scale, it may be that they were not lined up correctly on 27L...seems to me the 32R markings were just to close...but what do I know? Smile
...what happened was there was a NW A319 which still hadn't cleared the runway in front of us.....the pilot actually stated "an NW A319 on the runway hadn't cleared"...
"Up the Irons!"
: 27L now. The new 27R is under construction. The old 27L is 28. Hard to understand?: http://www.flychicago.com/ohare/runways/PhaseIIFlier.pdf[Edited 2
: That's the whole point - a go around is expected, anticipated and a normal part of flying. It is an essential component of every approach. You do not
: It may me 'normal' but it is a little scary. Had the same experience coming into land on a dark wet december morning on a VS 744 from JFK. AirWales.
: Mmmm well that is one of the reasons a go-around!
: You have totally missed the point. How can the passengers know the reason for the aborted landing? How do they know that the pilot is not performing