Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
BA777 Scary Landing At LHR Last Night  
User currently offlinePhil747 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 14 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 12 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3820 times:

Landing on a BA777 on BA164 ex TLV at LHR on the south runway, the pilot aborted the landing at what seemed to be only a few feet above the runway, (we had certainly passed the BA maintenance base) pulled up sharply on full power and did a 30 mile go around before landing 15 minuted later. He claimed that ATC had not given him clearance to land. My question is how could he h

33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 1, posted (6 years 12 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3820 times:

Old question - probably the same answer.

Clearance to land was given to the pilot - but it was based on the landing aircraft ahead clearing the runway in a timely manner, or some aircraft crossing the runway clearing the runway.

Near touchdown the ATC and/ or pilot - determined the other aircraft had NOT cleared the runway as expected - so a missed approach/ go-around was necessary.

Not scary - happens many times each day around the world at busy airports.

Good pilots are always setup for a go-around on every approach. They main priority is executing a normal go-around which you describe.

Landing is an optional bonus.


User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4120 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (6 years 12 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3820 times:

That happened to me many years ago on a TWA L-1011 going from Boston to St. Louis. We weren't as close to the ground as you were, but we were mere seconds from touching down. Same thing: Power spooled up, and we zoomed around to try again. Cause: an F-16 landed ahead of us and hadn't cleared the runway.

Later that same year, also STL and also a TWA L-1011. This one inbound from SFO. We were only a few seconds from touching down, but there was a decided 'list' to the plane on the right side--our side. I was on the window and realized that our right gear were going to slam onto the runway real hard at the angle we were at. Pilot spooled up and flew us on a REAL tight circuit around St. Louis Airport. Felt like a fighter jet, the tightness of the loop we made in order to save our slot.

Chris in NH


User currently offlineBlueShamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 2954 posts, RR: 23
Reply 3, posted (6 years 12 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3820 times:

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 1):
Clearance to land was given to the pilot - but it was based on the landing aircraft ahead clearing the runway in a timely manner, or some aircraft crossing the runway clearing the runway.

Such a clearance can't be issued at night. I therefore presume the landing was expecting a very late landing clearance which turned into a very late go-around due to an aircraft or vehicle on the runway not vacating in time.

Shamu



So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
User currently offlineBA777ER236 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 278 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (6 years 12 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3820 times:

Quoting Phil747 (Thread starter):
the pilot aborted the landing at what seemed to be only a few feet above the runway

Sounds like a perfectly normal 'go-around' at a busy LHR. The runways at LHR are worked to capacity at some times of the day, and occasionally, for a variety of reasons, the preceding aircraft does not clear the landing runway in time, and a go-around results. These manoeuvres, whilst they may be alarming to some passengers, are perfectly safe and practised, and if you don't do one in 6 months of actual flying, you certainly then do a few in the simulator every 6 months - many of them on one engine!

It looks from your post as if you didn't believe the Captain's PA, but there is no reason to doubt what he said, and no reason for him to falsify the information given to you.

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 1):
Clearance to land was given to the pilot - but it was based on the landing aircraft ahead clearing the runway in a timely manner

You would be correct in the US, however, in Europe, landing clearance is only given when the runway is clear, unless a 'land after' clearance is given (strict separation criteria). 'Land after' clearances are not given at night. In this particular case, a go-around would have resulted from a lack of clearance to land by ATC, or a positive instruction to 'GO-AROUND' by them. This sometimes happens at very low altitude, as described by Phil747.

Cheers
 Smile



Flying would be easy if it wasn't for the ground
User currently offlineVgnAtl747 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1514 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (6 years 12 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3820 times:

Missed approaches are very common and you shouldn't worry about it. It's a normal procedure, and has been said, pilots are always prepared and setup for it.

There is a video out there somewhere of a VS atlantic crossing, one of those actual produced retail videos where they film the flight from the flightdeck. The captain actually explains how they setup the go-around procedure just in case...



Work Hard. Fly Right. Continental Airlines
User currently offlineJCS From Netherlands, joined Jun 2004, 211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 12 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3820 times:

I got it also some time ago at LUT onboard an Easyjet flight.

It was easy down and as easy up again. The pilot was laughing a bit and making some kind of comment like 'there was another bird at our spot'.


User currently offlineBeechNut From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 726 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (6 years 12 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3820 times:

I've been through numerous airliner go-arounds. A bunch of them were weather related (runway not in sight at minimums, or in sight but unstabilized approach), at least two were related to traffic not clearing the runway fast enough (once in a Dash 8, the other time in a 767-233). One was in a 737 in Kunsan, Korea, on very short final, because an F-16 behind had declared an emergency (low fuel I suspect) and we went around to let him in.

There is nothing "scary" about a go-around. It is a well-trained, non-emergency procedure and in fact is a viable option on any approach if circumstances (traffic, weather, etc) dictate one. The only thing I dislike about a go-around is that from a pax perspective, it is a pain in the a$$; setting up for a new approach takes time. The 767 go-around was on my very last leg, late at night, of a long trip from Korea and I was eager to get home; fortunately the captain pulled off his very best C150 pilot imitation, and we did a very tight visual circuit on 24L at YUL, coming back to land, cutting the extra time to a minimum. Fortunately it was late at night and there was little traffic (except for the bugger ahead of us who dawdled clearing the runway).

Beech


User currently offlineCloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3820 times:

Quoting Phil747 (Thread starter):
only a few feet above the runway, (we had certainly passed the BA maintenance base)

Passing the BA mantenance hanger is roughly half a mile from touch and you should be at 160ft, 13-15 seconds from touchdown.

There is on average 1 go around per day and touch luck you were on that one of the day. Nothing special about it.

Big version: Width: 734 Height: 458 File size: 480kb


Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 3):
Such a clearance can't be issued at night. I therefore presume the landing was expecting a very late landing clearance which turned into a very late go-around due to an aircraft or vehicle on the runway not vacating in time.

 checkmark  Conditional clearances are only issued in visual conditions.



A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
User currently offlineJerald01 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 161 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3820 times:

The only go-around that I have experienced on a commercial flight was as a pax in a Continental Airlines Electra back in the 60's. IIRC we were landing in daylight at Phoenix, AZ. On VERY short final the pilot executed a VERY steep 360 at VERY low altitude, and during the turn we pax heard four distinct "whoosh" sounds that seemed to come from outside the aircraft.

After a quick roll-out from the 360 the pilot (almost immediately) literally slammed the aircraft onto the runway, giving everyone a pretty good jolt. After turning off the runway and while taxiing in, the pilot made an announcement something like this:

"Ladies and gentlemen, we, and the Navy Blue Angels who were doing barrel rolls down the runway while we were trying to land, wish to welcome you to Phoenix."

Talk about an ATC screw-up!

Well, that wasn't the end of it. After we departed the gate for the outbound flight we were taxiing alongside the runway (at a pretty good clip, I might add), when, all of a sudden, the pilot makes an abrupt stop. He turns the plane around, and, during the turn, we pax got a good view of WHY he had stopped: there was a trench dug completely across the taxiway!

I wouldn't have wanted to have been in that tower when the pilot got finished chewing out some controllers....



"There may be old pilots, and there may be bold pilots, but there are darn few green cows"
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21534 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3820 times:

Your go around sounds routine. I've been on a less routine one, though I hear not uncommon, at LGA. Due to winds, the 757 "floated" a bit on landing and hit too far down the runway, so the pilot did a touch and go and we landed like 10 minutes later. He said it was preferable to stopping in the river. Seemed reasonable!  Wink


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineRIXrat From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 789 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3820 times:

A few years ago I was coming in from LHR to RIX on a BA A320 and we were lined up perfectly for the landing. This was at about 2330 and we were about 10 feet off the ground, when the pilot suddenly applied the throttle to take us around again. While doing the circle, he came on the intercom and said, "Whoops!" That's it.

I was going to ask what had happened after we landed safely, but the cockpit door remained shut. I couldn't see any other active traffic at the airport. Strange.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 12, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3820 times:

..happens occasionally..

Here is an aborted flight I had on an AA MadDog-80....take a look at how low we got to..... Smile




"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12480 posts, RR: 34
Reply 13, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3820 times:

I guess people could expect to get a little more than "whoops" after something like that, but as has been said earlier in the thread, it's a perfectly normal occurrence. In the old days, when flying was fun and you could get jump seats for landing, I regularly heard crews being told to "expect late clearance for landing", because of other aircraft on the runway; we always got down, but the aircraft is always set up for whatever the G/A procedure is and should the need arise, the aircraft will go around, and this can often be at the direction of ATC.

So, don't worry about it ... two approaches for the price of one; you did well!


User currently offlineTsaord From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3820 times:

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 1):

Not scary - happens many times each day around the world at busy airports.

Well to non airline enthusiast who don't fly everyday and do not know what a "go around" is just going back up in the air may seem odd. Might not be scary but it may seem odd and start some mumbles.


User currently offlineRIHNOSAUR From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 362 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3822 times:

hi,

just to add to the discussion, it does not only have to be another aircraft involved to created a missed approach, I for one, was was landing at SJO (which is notorious place for wet and foggy conditions),...we were coming down on AA's A300 bird and i saw out the window how we had just descended just below the cloud celling and actually saw what seemed to be the ground....it was night so it was shard to see
but we all of a sudden pulled back up.....I have never experienced so many g's ...the pilot really "stepped on the gas" (or pressed on the lever i shall say) and we quickly got out of there and began to circle for a while...

the weather was so bad ... to make the story short we landed in LIR Liberia.....
we had to spend the night there....it was a mess...and it was awkward since LIR was NOT prepared to take A300 maxed out on people ......

needles to say.. they couldn't even get a tall enough ladder to get us out.....that was so fun!!!!...

to make matters worse... a delta 737 (or maybe 757) and a continental 737 and a white cargo A300 (which I have seen the pictures of around anet somewhere but I can't remember the carrier's name) had to land there as well...

these planes which came later...were able unload before we did cause they did have ladders that reached their height! people were so confused....hahahah but I wasn't...sorry (self gloss)

The cool thing is that, the next day, it turned to be my first trip ever from Guanacaste to San Jose in such style....
30 min trip from LIR to SJO in an A300!!!!! talk about class and what a unique experience...I had never traveled that fast from city to city in Costa Rica

sorry to get of topic..but the point was that weather can also cause a missed approach



particles and waves are the same thing, but who knows what that thing is...
User currently offlineFiveMileFinal From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 232 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3820 times:

Hell, that happens in London all the time. I'm surprised it doesn't happen MORE often, I've heard us getting landing clearance when we're practically over the threshold!

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 12):
Here is an aborted flight I had on an AA MadDog-80

I love how the baby starts crying on cue when the Mad Dog goes TOGA. Hilarious.  Smile



You goin'? We fly you dere! You been? We done already flew up in dere!
User currently offlineBeechNut From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 726 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3820 times:

Interestingly in my own plane (Beech Sundowner), I have only had one non-intentional go-around (that is, not for practice) since I bought it in 2003, and maybe only 1 or two since 1999 when I resumed flying after a hiatus of many years. The last one was on a crosswind landing. Crosswinds aren't too much of an issue but this one was gusting from slightly headwind to slightly tailwind for the single available runway. When I began my flare, the wind shifted from slight head to fairly significantly tail, and the sudden loss of airspeed caused my plane to start sinking like a stone, while at the same time I was dancing on the rudder pedals to keep lined up. I applied full throttle and got the hell out of there, and came 'round and landed on 23 instead of 05, with no further problems.

Go-arounds are nothing special, just a bit out of the ordinary.

Beech


User currently offlineSAS330GOT From Sweden, joined May 2004, 252 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3820 times:

Since this thread has become something like a forum to tell your best fishing-tale (it was thiiiis big.. Wink) I'll just give my contribution.

I've experienced quite a few go-arounds, one of the funniest was landing in malta where it actually became more of a touch and go when the pilot came on the PA and said something like "sorry for the inconvenience but there was a helicopter that decided he had the right of way".

I had a quite scary go around on a BA flight from LHR to GOT one early february morning though that actually scared me. GOT is only a CAT II listed airport so minimums are quite tight and mornings are often quite foggy. This time around it was foggy and very windy with gusts at galeforce. It had bee quite a jumpy decent and the final really tossed the poor plane around and just before the flare we got a really strong crosswind gust that more or less threw the plane towards the grass (all I could see through my window was the lawn) and the pilot reacted with full thrust and up we went again. That is actually the only time I've been scared on a plane. I thought that we were about to land on the grass. But around we went and landed safely.

I kinda enjoy go arounds.. Just fun with something out of the ordinary. And I do imagine the pilots enjoy it to since they actually have to do something out of the ordinary.. Or am I wrong?

cheers


User currently offlineAwthompson From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 475 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3820 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 12):
Here is an aborted flight I had on an AA MadDog-80....take a look at how low we got to.....

The video raises a major question for me. It does not seem to be a routine go around.......

He turned left directly into the path of the parallel landing aircraft almost immediately after positive rate of climb!

What if the parallel traffic had also decided to execute a late go around? It doesn't look good to me. Was he avoiding something quite close ahead and had no choice in the direction of his turn? This cannot have been the published go-around course?

With workload on the flight deck and the short time period before the left turn, it is unlikely that the captain looked back over his left shoulder to ensure that the parallel traffic had landed. The only possibility is that the tower controller called the go-around and gave the pilot that left turn instruction having verified that the parallel traffic had landed successfully.


User currently offlineBoston92 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3390 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3820 times:

Being a controller at busy airports is a true art form. At a place like LHR, the controller does everything he/she can to separate the aircraft with just the right amount of space and time, but things don't go right sometimes and a go around is necessary.


"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
User currently offlineThreeIfByAir From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 686 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3820 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 12):
Here is an aborted flight I had on an AA MadDog-80....take a look at how low we got to.....

Sweet video! Looks like 27L at ORD.

Judging by when you can see the 32R markings, you must have been roughly over the 27L numbers before the go-around. What would make the pilots decide to abort landing only feet above the runway? Surely an airplane would be noticeable from further away and I can't imagine ramp vehicles or the like roaming the runway at a major airport.

ORD diagram: http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0709/00166AD.PDF


User currently offlineBoston92 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3390 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3820 times:

Quoting ThreeIfByAir (Reply 21):

Well judging that that diagram is to scale, it may be that they were not lined up correctly on 27L...seems to me the 32R markings were just to close...but what do I know?  Smile



"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
User currently offlineHmmmm... From Canada, joined May 1999, 2104 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3820 times:

Quoting BeechNut (Reply 7):
There is nothing "scary" about a go-around

It is not scary to a pilot, but it certainly is to a passenger who has no clue why the airplane is doing something it normally wouldn't be doing at that point in time. Anytime a plane does something that it normally doesn't do, it is very concerning to the passengers. As far as the passengers know, their airplane could be performing an evasive maneuver to avoid a collision.



An optimist robs himself of the joy of being pleasantly surprised
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 24, posted (6 years 12 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3820 times:

Quoting FiveMileFinal (Reply 16):

I love how the baby starts crying on cue when the Mad Dog goes TOGA. Hilarious.  Smile

LoL...when the baby grows up, it will have nightmares about flying on a MadDog for rest of its life after that "traumatic" experience..

Quoting Awthompson (Reply 19):
The video raises a major question for me. It does not seem to be a routine go around.......

...actually I was spotting @ ORD about 10 days ago and I did indeed see an aborted flight in that nature...it was an AA B763ER...

Quoting Awthompson (Reply 19):
He turned left directly into the path of the parallel landing aircraft almost immediately after positive rate of climb!

...the plane parallel to us (arriving on 27L) was a MX A32X....it landed after the aborted flight so even if that plane had to abort, we wouldn't have had too much of a problem...I suspect ATC would have made the MX take lower rate of climb and/or make it take a more extreme left bank.....

Quoting ThreeIfByAir (Reply 21):

Sweet video! Looks like 27L at ORD.

..thanks.. Smile got lucky on that one! Actually, it was 27R.... Wink

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 22):

Well judging that that diagram is to scale, it may be that they were not lined up correctly on 27L...seems to me the 32R markings were just to close...but what do I know? Smile

...what happened was there was a NW A319 which still hadn't cleared the runway in front of us.....the pilot actually stated "an NW A319 on the runway hadn't cleared"...



"Up the Irons!"
25 Post contains links Boston92 : 27L now. The new 27R is under construction. The old 27L is 28. Hard to understand?: http://www.flychicago.com/ohare/runways/PhaseIIFlier.pdf[Edited 2
26 RFields5421 : That's the whole point - a go around is expected, anticipated and a normal part of flying. It is an essential component of every approach. You do not
27 AirWales : It may me 'normal' but it is a little scary. Had the same experience coming into land on a dark wet december morning on a VS 744 from JFK. AirWales.
28 Post contains images EDICHC : Mmmm well that is one of the reasons a go-around!
29 Hmmmm... : You have totally missed the point. How can the passengers know the reason for the aborted landing? How do they know that the pilot is not performing
30 Post contains images Boston92 : I was with you until that metaphor.
31 Jacobin777 : ...it was 27R when the incident occurred.....is that too difficult to understand?
32 Pnwtraveler : My "BEST" go around was on an AC CRJ-100 from DCA to YYZ. This was before 9/11 and the pilots wife was sitting in the jump seat in the cockpit. The do
33 Boston92 : Hey jerk, calm down, I was not trying to be a prick, I knew that what I wrote sounded a bit confusing so I added a diagram through the link. I was no
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
VS 346 With Engine Problem At LHR Last Night? posted Mon Dec 5 2005 07:34:52 by Star_world
Scary Landing At LHR posted Tue Dec 14 2004 23:04:03 by Chrisjdurber
Aborted Landing At LBA Last Night posted Thu Aug 14 2003 10:24:50 by LBA
Reason For LY 106 Landing At LHR On 8/14? posted Tue Aug 14 2007 19:14:04 by Elal106
Runway Closure At MSP Last Night posted Fri Jul 27 2007 17:12:21 by G5
Ramper Killed At DTW Last Night posted Tue Apr 10 2007 12:58:36 by PSU.DTW.SCE
NZ 777 At WLG Last Night? posted Thu Dec 7 2006 22:55:40 by ZKNEA
DL B-772 Emergency Landing In BDS Last Night posted Fri Sep 22 2006 12:51:18 by 777
DL 763 At BRU Last Night posted Wed Aug 16 2006 10:24:27 by BrightCedars
What A Mess At IAD Last Night posted Mon Jun 26 2006 19:16:30 by Egghead