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A Little Irishness In The Air: 43/07  
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12322 posts, RR: 35
Posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5505 times:

Good evening folks,

Here's our 43rd dose of Irish aviation, so hold onto your hats!

A rather disappointing day for Irish aviation, with news that Bmi has decided not to take up the SNN-LHR route and this not long after the govt said that it was looking to ensure SNN had a link to LHR - AND a link to a major European hub; assuming it maintains its "hands off" stance, it's hard to see how that'll happen. I guess no one in the Dept of Transport heard the old saying, "when you're in a hole, stop digging".

I think there's a lot left to run on this yet and you can be sure the Shannon lobby will continue to push this; more anon, I'm sure.

Our 42nd thread saw the start of construction on DUB's Terminal 2 and I think we're going to see a huge amount of change and disruption over the next few years, at the end of which - one hopes - DUB will be a slightly more pleasant place to fly through. Mind you there's already a huge amount of apron work going on, with a parallel taxiway to the old 23/05 now in operation. If anyone has a diagram/plan of DUB with all the various stages and elements of this plan, or even a link to it, that would be very helpful.

So, here we go folks; enjoy!

323 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEI787 From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 1513 posts, RR: 21
Reply 1, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5505 times:
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Just booked my mid-term break holiday! Off to CPH on 28th October for three nights! It'll be the inaugural flight to CPH (since they stopped after 9/11). Also, I hear that Pier D is due to open on the 28th so fingers crossed my flight will be departing from the new pier!!

Should I expect anything with it being a new route launch?? Champagne at the gate maybe?? Haha! Dream on! Big grin Big grin


User currently offlineEIRules From Ireland, joined Aug 2007, 701 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5505 times:

Quoting EI787 (Reply 1):
Should I expect anything with it being a new route launch?? Champagne at the gate maybe?? Haha! Dream on!

Eh I wouldnt hold my breath if I was you!!

Massive blow for SNN with BD ruing themselves out. If we assume that BA were telling the truth when they said they weren't interested then that still leaves another airline that the SAA were meant to be in talks with. Who?? Perhaps I'm being pessimistic but I just cant see another airline flying to LHR. I have said it before that the timing of all of this is really working against SNN with the sudden upturn in demand for slots at LHR due to open skies.



Next Flights: EI DUB-LHR A320, BA LHR-SFO B744, UA SFO-LAS A320, BA LAS-LHR B744, EI LHR-DUB A320
User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4599 posts, RR: 24
Reply 3, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5505 times:

Quoting EIRules (Reply 2):
Massive blow for SNN with BD ruing themselves out

The question is one of economics.

Does Shannon have enough premium traffic to warrant an airline using (wasting) valuable LHR slots?

From what I can see, the answer is no. If this route was a cash cow for EI, they would never have left. I understand everyone is up in arms in the west, but at this point in time the circumstances don't warrant it. If people need to get to London, they can fly FR to Dublin and then transfer to BA, EI, BD to LHR.

EI are right to have abandoned the route to something more profitable. It's not as though they are raking in the cash - they need to do what works.

To change the topic -

The other day I flew DUB-LGW-DUB (on my way to and from VAR) on BA in Club Europe - and Club Europe was completely full both ways. I wonder if EI leaving oneworld has pushed a lot of pax over to BA. It wouldn't surprise me. Both flights were evening flights and on both there was a full dinner and full bar (including champagne) on both sectors.

Now onto another thing. The Anna Livia lounge in Dublin seems to be run and operated by the DAA. Is this true? It's an absolute whore of a lounge. The place was packed with AF pax, BA pax, IB pax, and so on. The floors were dirty, there were crisps all over the floors and down the seats - it's way to small for what it's being used for, and is really a load of crap. The lounge needs to be expanded desperately. Also, having to use a code to use the toilets is a bit rich as well - they're outside the lounge thanks to the "well thought out" layout.

I had to do a feedback survey online after my BA flight, and I slammed the lounge in no uncertain terms. The EI lounge is head and shoulders better (even if it has PAY internet). EI should grasp some extra revenue and allow other airlines pax into their lounge. BA pax on EI DUB-LHR can use it, but no-one else. A total waste of a decent lounge.

Thoughts?



I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
User currently offlineF1eddie From Ireland, joined May 2007, 461 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5505 times:

Quoting EI787 (Reply 1):
Should I expect anything with it being a new route launch?? Champagne at the gate maybe??

Yup you will get red carpet on top of this, and balloons and confetti and the likes. And then to top it all off when you arrive they will play a little anthem over the PA system saying you have landed and how early you are and stuff, a la FR!!!! LOL

Yeah i was gobsmacked about BMI. I was sure they would take it over. I suppose we will start hearing bout this all over again next week on the radio!!! Hopefully KLM or Lufthansa will not succumb to FR's power and try and give SNN some sort of service.



Flown on EI, FR, BMI, TG, PG, FD, JQ, DJ, LA, NZ, SQ, DL, LX, LH
User currently offlineBrianDromey From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 3901 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5505 times:

I have to say Im pretty surprised that BD have decided not to go with SNN. But how long would they have stuck at it for? I'd say summer 2009 when they woud use the slots for US depsrtures, or eastbound long haul services, amybe a bit longer.

I am a bit disappointed to hear it though, as I was planning, at the back of my mind, to fly LBA-LHR-SNN to visit some friends in Limerick. I guess I'll just use the FR  Sad direct service.

Brian.



Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
User currently offlineRineanna From Ireland, joined Jan 2007, 880 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5505 times:

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 3):
Now onto another thing. The Anna Livia lounge in Dublin seems to be run and operated by the DAA. Is this true? It's an absolute whore of a lounge. The place was packed with AF pax, BA pax, IB pax, and so on. The floors were dirty, there were crisps all over the floors and down the seats - it's way to small for what it's being used for, and is really a load of crap. The lounge needs to be expanded desperately. Also, having to use a code to use the toilets is a bit rich as well - they're outside the lounge thanks to the "well thought out" layout.

Oh sweet Lord. I've never used that lounge, but it sounds like a nightmare and an embarrassment. The toilets situation is a joke.

Quoting F1eddie (Reply 4):
Yeah i was gobsmacked about BMI. I was sure they would take it over. I suppose we will start hearing bout this all over again next week on the radio!!!

Most probably. I know I went off on a quite a few rants myself over the situation, but at this stage of the game it's just time to move on from EI shorthaul at SNN and focus on KLM/WX and the likes and retaining all the services that SNN has. I think the whole situation has highlighted how critical each and every service to SNN is. IMO, I think they should look at significantly expanding the cargo services at the airport. Maybe enter into talks with DHL, TNT, etc and look at developing some sort of freight-forwarding centre. I know Leipzig is to become (already is) a major FF centre and has the advantage of road connections to the rest of continental Europe, but SNN has the runway to accommodate large freighters and this could be an area to look into to reduce the dependency on PAX.


User currently offlineF1eddie From Ireland, joined May 2007, 461 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5505 times:

Was just looking on the DAA route maps and they still have not put SFO on it. Its really annoying me now. Yet TPA has been put on the route map. I wondered how this was possible and it turns out its with delta via ATL. According to the DAA website also its the same code for ATL>MCO as it is ATL>TPA. Is this possible. I would assume its not!! Must be a typo on the DAA side or something.


Flown on EI, FR, BMI, TG, PG, FD, JQ, DJ, LA, NZ, SQ, DL, LX, LH
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12322 posts, RR: 35
Reply 8, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5505 times:

Cityjet says that while it is possible, even likely, that they will operate a SNN service, the timing is bad for them as their resources are committed and they're in the middle of changing over their fleet. It says it is difficult to see them being ready to launch a service by the time EI pulls out.

Also, it says that things would be made easier if the local lobby group were open to other routes, apart from LHR.

It also emerged that the ACL said it would continue to target EI for a return to SNN, even if bmi agreed to operate to LHR. What a bunch of idiots!

http://www.independent.ie/business/i...us-says-cityjet-chief-1116678.html


User currently offlineShamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4105 posts, RR: 13
Reply 9, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5505 times:

Bitterly disappointed about BMI, but it would seem the decision was swung quite recently from what I have been hearing. The use of slots at LHR (the former BMED slots revert back to BA very soon) and the whole Ryanair thing are cited as chief reasons.

I must say i'm still very surprised. Its not often you get a guaranteed market handed to you on a plate.

Having said that its time these atlantic connectivity buffoons realise that LHR is not the "be all and end all" of hubbing in Europe, and it hasnt been for a very long time!

Bring on CDG, AMS or FRA!

Lufthansa might be a safer bet with a FRA route (FR have pulled SNN-HHN) after the murmerings we heard from O'leary about frequency increases on SNN-BVA and a possible SNN-AMS.

Perhaps something Lufty might consider operating with a CRJ or something similar?



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17003 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5505 times:

Quoting Shamrock604 (Reply 9):
O'leary about frequency increases on SNN-BVA and a possible SNN-AMS

Can FR really hold so low ticket fares if the start to operate to AMS???



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineDstc47 From Ireland, joined Sep 1999, 1446 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5506 times:

I fail to see why the BMI decision was a surprise, although BM have made some strange decisions in the past, SNN is still a minor backwater, with a weak population profile, even if there are some strong local users. No onward feed to other BM services either. Not a spot to waste a slot.

All the lounges at DUB are pretty weak, the BMI lounge is, by a large measure, the best. The only one to vaguely match the better standards elsewhere, but still a long way from Asia.

The EI lounge offers less and less service over the years.
The golden years of reading the New York Times there are long past ( A concession that cost EI near nothing, since there was capacity to uplift them on the overnight flights). I never tried the massage either. The location in Pier B is mighty handy for Pier A passengers also.

The Anna Livia lounge - well little to be said.

Anyone know the reason for the multiple formation flights over Dublin on Thursday by the Air Corps while the board was down?


User currently offlineShamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4105 posts, RR: 13
Reply 12, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5506 times:

Quoting B747forever (Reply 10):
Can FR really hold so low ticket fares if the start to operate to AMS???

Quite simply, no. Airport charges at AMS are high, and with the new policy of showing all inclusive fares, this will increase the headline cost. It may be a case though of increasing the higher fare brackets, but retaining low "headline" fares. What is certain though is that the average fare would simply have to rise to compensate for the costs of using Schiphol.

Personally, I cant see it happening. MOL is just trying to keep Cityjet / AF / KLM out of SNN.

Shannon will rue the day it sold it soul to FR: it has lost British Airways, Easyjet, Flybe, Hapag Lloyd express, its Heathrow link and BD has been scared away.

FR may well pack in the pax, but with no-one left to compete with, SNN may well still end up hurting in the pocket.



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19097 posts, RR: 53
Reply 13, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5506 times:

Quoting B747forever (Reply 10):
Can FR really hold so low ticket fares if the start to operate to AMS???



Quoting Shamrock604 (Reply 12):
Quite simply, no. Airport charges at AMS are high

I guess it doesn't have a base in MAD - where charges are also higher than it would usually pay. Don't forget AMS has its "discount airline" pier.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineShamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4105 posts, RR: 13
Reply 14, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5506 times:

Pe@rson,

Yes I know of the MAD base, but MAD had a lot of empty terminal capacity to fill after it opened T4, and offered discounts to fill it. AMS just doesnt have that kind of capacity to spare, so wont be discounting its charges. The lo-co pier only has 7 gates that are pretty well utilised. AMS will accomodate airlines operational wishes, but it doesnt feel it needs to offer discounts and it has stated this.

Im not for a second saying that FR will start charging 500 euro for a one way to AMS from SNN, but it simply will not be able to charge 0.01 euro and make a profit. Passenger service charge at AMS is about 25 euro, a lot higher than MAD.

The point is that the average fare will have to be higher to make a profit, than for example, SNN-BVA. FR has enough problems with Yields at SNN without running another loss maker designed purely to keep a potential competitor out.

Incidentally, do you know how well the MAD base is doing Pe@rson? I havent heard much about it, although I guess no news is good news!
[Edited 2007-10-06 01:45:01]

[Edited 2007-10-06 01:46:40]


Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19097 posts, RR: 53
Reply 15, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5506 times:

I understand your point, and I obviously agree with your theoretical stance regarding higher usage so less incentive to discount. That, per se, is fine, and is simple supply and demand.

There are, however, exceptions.

MAN was also heavily utilised when FR first expressed an interest to serve it, but FR managed to get an excellent discount – as former MAN and then FR Jeans has clearly stated – based on delivering considerable volume. FR also demanded slots that weren’t really possible. Jeans has stated that MAN didn’t need FR, but it wanted the extra volume. Of course, the discount wasn’t as good as with unused airports – obviously they have even more incentive to discount – but it was clearly sufficiently attractive to entice FR.

Likewise LGW. A very busy airport that is delay-prone and with very few slots during the best periods. Some say that FR often spends an hour on the ground at LGW due to delays. But FR supposedly got a sufficiently attractive deal – again, obviously not as good as with unused airports – that it decided to fly there.

Of course, by serving airports like MAN and LGW FR slightly modified its strategy, with one objective: to increase its presence on flights from Ireland to the UK thereby becoming the number-one airline between Ireland and the UK.

FR frequently offers 1c/1p flights to/from LGW and MAN, although such fares obviously aren’t designed to make a profit but rather to fill seats (ancillary revenue always fundamental).

Hence, it is quite possible than FR could fly SNN-AMS in order to strengthen its position at SNN and thereby ensuring no other airline flies the route. I, however, don’t think SNN-AMS will happen, but it could.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineEXTspotter From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 992 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5506 times:

I am back!

I got 2 flights and added 2 more FR aircraft into my flightmemory.com account

I went to VLL from STN on a school trip.

When we got to STN, I was annoyed about finding out about the new boarding system. You probably know about it already but here is something for those of you who don't know. In the past, priority was given to passengers with disabilities and young children, then those who checked in early and had got numbers 1 - 99, finally those with 100 - 189. Now, the system goes that priority goes to people who checked in online, then to those who BOUGHT a priority boarding at the gate for £2 (now thats very FR!) then to everyone else. The thing that got to me though, was that there was a family with 2 very young children (about 1 and 3, I think) behind us (we were nearly the back of the queue anyway) and because they hadn't got a prioirty boarding pass, they had to board even behind us. The flight was 100% full and there was 26 in our group who had taken up the last 2 or 3 empty rows (A, B, C or D, E, F), then were filling up most of everything else (Middle seats and that), so when this family boarded behind us, they had seats which were 20 rows apart. I know I would have been inconvineienced by having to let them board before us, but having to sit a 3 year old child between two starngers is just a bit far. The crew which we had (Italian and rubbish) didn't do anything to help them, or anyone else.

I am happy to report the return journey was much better, even though we were all over different parts of the plane again. The crew was much better, more attentive, and the purser was really really fit.

I wish that FR had a more even level of service you can expect, as after experiencing some of the flights I have, may put people off, but thats just the way of FR.

Alex

P.S. I wonder if as a group, we have flown on the entire fleet of an airline?

For FR, mine are CSB, CSC, CSN, DCE and DHG. I have flown COX, but thats either in South America or is Cans.



AF BE BY FR MV PD SZ U2 VZ DHC6, 8-3/4Q, 732/8, 763ER, A319, A380
User currently offlineShamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4105 posts, RR: 13
Reply 17, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5506 times:

Pe@rson,

Yes, thats all understood. Of course you will notice that average fares on LGW and MAN are higher than on much of the network. Of course, that is also supply and demand at work, but it's also a factor of the costs of operation. SNN-AMS would need to have fare levels that were similar to these two to turn sufficient profit.

Yes, you do see 0.01 fares on LGW and MAN, but you also see a hell of a lot of 199 euro fares too! I also understand your point about the ancilliary revenue streams, and the need to "get bums on seats" to earn such revenue. I am very familiar with Ryanair's model having worked with a similar model in a previous life....  Wink

Perhaps my initial post implied that FR would need to charge "legacy fares" to make SNN-AMS work, which of course was not what I meant. Perhaps I chose my words badly with that post.



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlineShamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4105 posts, RR: 13
Reply 18, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5506 times:

Quoting Dstc47 (Reply 11):
I fail to see why the BMI decision was a surprise, although BM have made some strange decisions in the past, SNN is still a minor backwater, with a weak population profile, even if there are some strong local users. No onward feed to other BM services either. Not a spot to waste a slot.

I would have thought it a surprise considering the airline leaving was doing a good job of filling a 174 seater 4 times a day. Considering BMI waste many of their slots using ERJ's, this would surely have been a massive improvement? Why bother going up against BA, KL and AF to AMS, CDG, BRU etc when you can have a proven market all to yourself?

Despite claiming its a "backwater", it evidently is capable of filling the seats to LHR on a daily basis.



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19097 posts, RR: 53
Reply 19, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5506 times:

Quoting EXTspotter (Reply 16):
the purser was really really fit.

Called Bob, wasn't he?  Wink



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineBrianDromey From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 3901 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5506 times:

Quoting Shamrock604 (Reply 12):
Shannon will rue the day it sold it soul to FR: it has lost British Airways, Easyjet, Flybe, Hapag Lloyd express, its Heathrow link and BD has been scared away.

Indeed. At the time FR launched the SNN base I thought the CAA had made a major faux pas. Shortly afterwords I saw the writing on the wall when FR bullied U2 out of Ireland. U2 were advertising heavily and FR just undercut every fare U2 offered. At a high(er) cost/yield airport like LGW U2 have better options than slugging out a turf war with FR.

Quoting Shamrock604 (Reply 14):
Im not for a second saying that FR will start charging 500 euro for a one way to AMS from SNN, but it simply will not be able to charge 0.01 euro and make a profit. Passenger service charge at AMS is about 25 euro, a lot higher than MAD.

They dont make any profit from the 0.01 fares anyway. Its the ancillary revenue and the last minute books ht make FR its money (along with clever tax avoidance and aircraft deals)

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 15):

MAN was also heavily utilised when FR first expressed an interest to serve it, but FR managed to get an excellent discount – as former MAN and then FR Jeans has clearly stated – based on delivering considerable volume. FR also demanded slots that weren’t really possible. Jeans has stated that MAN didn’t need FR, but it wanted the extra volume. Of course, the discount wasn’t as good as with unused airports – obviously they have even more incentive to discount – but it was clearly sufficiently attractive to entice FR.

Likewise LGW. A very busy airport that is delay-prone and with very few slots during the best periods. Some say that FR often spends an hour on the ground at LGW due to delays. But FR supposedly got a sufficiently attractive deal – again, obviously not as good as with unused airports – that it decided to fly there.

OK, if you were sitting in an office at AMS and MOL rang you and said "I want 75% off for one or two daily flights to AMS from SNN, I guarentee 20,000 passengers per year" I think you would be thinking "Ive seen what you did to U2 in Ireland, If you want to come in badly enough you can pay 100% or go to EIN, Im not pissing off KL and Transavia and diluting the connecting traffic they pull from te SNN region via ORK and DUB so you can keep compeditors out of a poorly performing base, furthermore the volume you are proposing is a 0.00004% or so of my yearly traffic and it's not with the hastle Mick, Bye"

Brian.

Brian.



Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19097 posts, RR: 53
Reply 21, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5505 times:

"OK, if you were sitting in an office at AMS and MOL rang you and said "I want 75% off for one or two daily flights to AMS from SNN, I guarentee 20,000 passengers per year" I think you would be thinking "Ive seen what you did to U2 in Ireland, If you want to come in badly enough you can pay 100% or go to EIN, Im not pissing off KL and Transavia and diluting the connecting traffic they pull from te SNN region via ORK and DUB so you can keep compeditors out of a poorly performing base, furthermore the volume you are proposing is a 0.00004% or so of my yearly traffic and it's not with the hastle Mick, Bye"

LMAO! 20,000 pax with "one or two daily flights" ? LOL!

189 seats x 364 days x 2 = 137,592, and 80% LF = 110,073. So probably about 110,000 pax through AMS if FR operated daily SNN-AMS-SNN. How in Gods name you get 20,000 is beyond me. Can't neither spell nor do maths. No wonder you suggested an airline fly LBA-MAN and LON-NWI.

If FR wanted to add more routes to/from AMS it'd quite easily offer 1m pax through AMS/year. And therein lies the point: if FR were to start SNN-AMS-SNN, it'd be bound to begin more routes to/from AMS at some point in order to gain better deals through higher guaranteed volume. But I said, and still believe, it won't happen.

[Edited 2007-10-06 03:33:19]


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineShamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4105 posts, RR: 13
Reply 22, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5505 times:

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 20):
They dont make any profit from the 0.01 fares anyway. Its the ancillary revenue and the last minute books ht make FR its money (along with clever tax avoidance and aircraft deals)

Brian,

Understood. But FR will need to extract higher revenue from AMS than it has been able to thus far from SNN. Hence the "average" fare will need to be higher.

FR suits SNN. ORK can do better. Thats why I simply dont understand why some particular posters on PPrune (TTT springs to mind) get so bitter over the whole FR/SNN deal. You are better off with EI at ORK, and an FR presence of sorts to keep them honest.

The outlying airports and FR service are fine for a huge number of people, but not for everyone.

[Edited 2007-10-06 03:37:53]


Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlineBrianDromey From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 3901 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5505 times:

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 21):
189 seats x 364 days x 2 = 137,592, and 80% LF = 110,073. So probably about 110,000 pax through AMS if FR operated daily SNN-AMS-SNN. How in Gods name you get 20,000 is beyond me. Can't neither spell nor do maths. No wonder you suggested an airline fly LBA-MAN and LON-NWI.

I just pulled 20,000 out of my head, I did not do any calculation on it, either way its still a tiny percentage of annual traffic at AMS, if you could not be bothered to work out the percentage for that one? Its 0.0002% (or so) of yearly traffic. And at an 80% load factor.....that is seriously ambitious. EI manages about 50% O&D on a 94% full aircraft, from my experience, what hope would FR have from SNN with no KL agreement and a smaller population base?

From AMS point o view its not worth pissing off KLM for. What would AMS gian? AMS needs KL (and AF) on side a lot more than AMS needs FR.

What you choose to neglect is than MAN was not always as busy as it is now, and BA has all but pulled out of MAN. MAN-DUB is a heavy route, and FR were not going to leave it all to EI (or BA, if they were still around, I dont know).

For the last time, it was you suggented the domestic flights thing. My view, as you well know, and I have clearly stated, is that domestic lights are not going to be around forever, which would very much be the case if teh government got their act together and got moving on the high-speed link along the east coast of the UK and linked it to the London airports and the 'chunnel'.

FYI: I cant either spell nor do maths" You have just siad I can do both. Funny. So once again I suggest tht you base any debate on fact and not stoop to lowly personal insults to get your point accross. As I wrote yoeterday when you do so it is you look like the idiot and not I.

Quoting Shamrock604 (Reply 22):
Understood. But FR will need to extract higher revenue from AMS than it has been able to thus far from SNN.

I suppose they might be able to do so, but only 25% of SNN-LHR was connecting anyway, so 75% had LON as a final destination. With these figures and the lack of interline with KL I dont really see a stampeed of high yield on SNN-AMS (or CDG, or anywhere else). I could be totally wrong though.

As for ORK can do better...I dont agree at all. One airline dominance at an airport is not at all a agood thing. In years gone by the tyrant was green, but at least he would talk to other carriers, a bit of co-operation, passegers had real options...now the tyrant is Blue, and passengers have no choices, wither fly direct with FR or connect and take your chances and the hastle. I think SNN could have done better if they had struck delas with several airlines for several routes. But this was a government lead idea anyway, no wonder it has worked out so well!

My fear is...what happens to SNN if FR pull out?

Brian.

[Edited 2007-10-06 03:53:34]


Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19097 posts, RR: 53
Reply 24, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5505 times:

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 23):
BA has all but pulled out of MAN.

Yeah, so when FR got its deal at MAN BA weren't there.  sarcastic  MAN was a busy airport then - as Jeans has clearly stated - but it still got a favourable deal, even though MAN didn't need FR - as Jeans has clearly stated. Why haven't you mentioned LGW? Always a very busy airport, yet FR got a sufficiently attractive deal - of course, not to unused airport level, but everything's relative - to entice it there. As I have said, FR modified its strategy for flights to/from LGW, MAN, etc, because of its desire to become the number-one carrier from Ireland to the UK, which, for a good while, was the backbone of its overall operation.

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 23):
FYI: I cant either spell nor do maths" You have just siad I can do both.

I actually put NEITHER. Clearly you can't spell correctly, do maths, or read.

[Edited 2007-10-06 03:57:50]


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
25 Shamrock604 : No, of course one airline dominance is not a good thing, but I dont think you suffer from that at ORK. You certainly would if FR ruled the roost! The
26 BrianDromey : I was not aware of any significant discounts at LGW. I dont know. But what I do know is this: U2 launches LGW - ORK/NOC/SNN, FR keep blabbing on abou
27 Shamrock604 : U2 pulled out of all three airports at the same time. They reduced frequency at SNN first, but didnt pull it until ORK and NOC got pulled as well. Al
28 EXTspotter : Everyone knows that FR is a bully in the LCC world and MOL enjoys throwing his wieght around. Only an idiot would try and beat FR at their own game. T
29 BrianDromey : Thanks for clarification, I was under the impression that it started out as 2x daily ORK, and once daily SNN and NOC. The only reason I thought that
30 Post contains images Shamrock604 : Eaxctly Brian, and thats what its all about: options! Now all they have in SNN to London is FR! Ghastly!
31 Pe@rson : Again, I put: As I clearly stated, it wouldn't be anywhere near what it'd get a unused airports (or underused airports, for that matter), or whatever
32 Pe@rson : For ORK-LGW-ORK incl. all taxes: For Tues 16th Oct out, Wed 17th back: I can get it for 67.77 EUR For Sat 17th Nov out, Sun 18th back: I can get it f
33 BrianDromey : I agree, I had a look a little earlier, and I remember historic fares being somewhat higher. (when U2 were still around in 2005 they were 25EUR rtn!)
34 Pe@rson : No airline ever pays the rack rate. Just like no airline ever pays the catalog price for aircraft. And FR are some of the best airline negotiators. W
35 BrianDromey : Keep shifiting your argument to suit yourself, I honestly dont care at this point, you claimed that FR got massive discounts in LGW to validate your p
36 Pe@rson : I have not once mentioned "massive" discounts at LGW or anything of the sort. I keep repeating precisely the same thing time and time again: that FR
37 Post contains images Shamrock604 : Come on now lads. lets all call a truce..... we dont want to upset the mods who have sadly had cause for complaint about these threads before (caused
38 OA260 : Sitting here in the BMI lounge in T1 LHR. What a nightmare to transfer through. T3 is a total hole , I never want to experience that terminal check in
39 Bestwestern : Sorry to burst the pearson bubble, but Ryanair dont receive a discount at Gatwick - they pay rack rates, just like easyjet. The airport is basically f
40 EXTspotter : Its not just BAA who has gaping holes, my friend accidentally took a 500ml bottle of coke through VLL security. AENA in Spain is just as incompitent a
41 BrianDromey : Awww, poor you, but it could be worse, you could be transiting through DUB, which is a nightmare. "Connection Centre" huh? Bloody hell, DUB does not
42 Kaitak : Nor does LGW, if you're travelling to/from the Channel Islands and Ireland, you have to go back upstairs and go in again; personally, AMS is my favour
43 EXTspotter : MAN isn't so bad for transiting, its just that if one of the airlines you are travelling on is a charter carrier, you can't use the transfer desks. Pl
44 OA260 : Yes AMS was a dream , On Thursday I got off the plane and onto the train and was in Rotterdam in 42 mins, The Dutch are so friendly and helpful also.
45 Post contains images Pe@rson : Ah, damn. Ah well. I won’t bother contesting it – despite the lack of evidence – because B.W. is generally correct. I would say you’re just s
46 BrianDromey : At ORK I got a deodrant through wiich was 150 ml. Nothing was said. The guys at MAN spotted it tho...which kinda annoyed me(epecially as I though I h
47 Pe@rson : What's EWR like? I'll be connecting through there in Nov.
48 BrianDromey : Feck, I ment EWR, I dont know why I said LGA....I must have LGW on the brain. Maybe if you are with CO or someone else you will be OK, I only used th
49 BestWestern : You earn Diamond club miles on WW these days - what a fluccccin joke... just remind me what the service difference between WW and BD is these days...
50 BrianDromey : Sadly destinstions miles only, but Ive earned over 1500 since may! THinking about it, Ive gotta vary it up a bit, as much as I like WW, I think its t
51 EXTspotter : Next time, fly Air Southwest from Cork - Manchester via Newquay. That'll be a changte of scenery. Just hope that the wheels on the landing gear don't
52 Pe@rson : Grew legs and ran! Yeah with CO to MEX and from PTY.
53 EXTspotter : Pearson, stop stealing my place as the only non-irish person who regularly posts in this thread! Is EWR crappy because its in New Jersey? *Preparing f
54 BestWestern : LGA marine air terminal (DL shuttle) is superb. Am I the only one who doesnt like AMS as a transit port - too much walking, slow gate security, rubbi
55 Post contains images BestWestern : Pearson must be scottish - given his penny pinching. But then, we irish have adopted him... soon he will see the dark side of EI's comfy allocated le
56 Post contains images Kaitak : I was at EWR last July and in fairness, it wasn't that bad - sure, security was a pain, but the airside areas are fine and the eating/shopping facili
57 Post contains images Pe@rson : Funnily enough, I was born and raised about 1 hour due north of EXT.
58 BestWestern : I drove from JFK to Philly last week, and really got the impression that the state of New Jersey really plays second fiddle to all its neighbours...
59 Bramble : well the EI cabin crew will agree with you on the looooooooooooooooong taxi experience. We regularly land 15 mins early to then have a 20 min taxi to
60 BestWestern : The wooden tulips?
61 BrianDromey : Well, I was going to say that, but I thought better of it! By contrast, SFO is another beautiful airport. It truly is a beautiful airport, especially
62 Kaitak : It's a hell of a long taxi to 36L, but that's the price you pay when you want new runways; from an airfield chart of AMS, I worked out the distance to
63 Post contains images Al2637 : Finally someone agrees. I live in AMS (not the airport, the city ) and use the airport on a regular basis, mainly on AMS-DUB sectors. I REALLY dislik
64 Al2637 : Oh and the whole issue about FR receiving discounts or not is really irrelevant. If they believe they can get yield from a route it will be operated.
65 Post contains links Shamrock350 : Just thought I would share these I made. Aer Lingus London advert: http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m.../SkyNet1000/EIIreland-Londonad.jpg Ryanair H
66 EXTspotter : We are going round in a holding pattern here, when will a new titbit of news about Irish Aviaiton take us from wondering f EWR is just rubbish cos its
67 Shamrock350 : Does anyone know when the shareholder meeting to approve the Aer Lingus A350 order is? I think it's coming up because both Aer Lingus and FR have ment
68 Kaitak : Well, it's Saturday night ... wait till the Sunday papers - there's bound to be a fair bit to discuss. I believe it's in the near future ... not sure
69 EXTspotter : Everyone knows he will, its the kind of tosser he is. He is a great business man, but by god, I so want to run a knife through him. I was so annoyed
70 Post contains images Shamrock350 : MOL will do anything to harm EI and if he does try to disrupt their fleet plans it will be further proof that he is only using his shareholding in Aer
71 EXTspotter : And? Wouldn't you? Its nothing personal, but I think he is an absolute ~#~#. He cries when he doesn't get things his own way and he sabotages everyon
72 Post contains images Shamrock350 : Well if I met him the street I'd probably attack him with Aer Lingus A330 model and shout "thats customer service for you"
73 OA260 : Funny you say that when I landed on Thursday I didnt know what the hell was going on . We taxied for what seemed like 3 circuits around AMS!!! I didn
74 Post contains images Shamrock350 : Thanks I thought I would add a Ryanair advert, they are just too modest in their adverts so its about time they started telling people how good they
75 JWMD123 : Wow, number 43 is flying (sorry for the pun). Just to pose a quick question. Does anyone know has there been a change in the route flights are taking
76 Post contains images Shamrock604 : JWMD, There have been no significant changes in the last while, its just that DUB has been using runway 10 instead of the usual 28 over the last few d
77 BestWestern : With more and more airlines using continous descent on their landing sequences, has this had an effect at DUB?
78 Post contains images Shamrock604 : Best Western, I'll have to check that for you, as it wouldnt really be in my scope of knowledge to know how that affects sequencing. However, its no p
79 OA260 : Funny enough last night was a weird approach!!! We seemed to circle around near some mountains and was not the normal route whereby comming in for a
80 Shamrock604 : Its relatively rare you get RWY 10 in use for such extended periods, but it's been like that now for a few days. At least it adds some variety to your
81 Post contains images EI787 : It's great when RWY10 is in use as the planes are flying low directly over my house!! Makes for great spotting!!
82 BestWestern : I love the rare route that takes you along the M50, down the irish coast from Dublin, past Bray to wicklow, and then over the Irish sea. I always get
83 Post contains links BestWestern : http://www.tribune.ie/article.tvt?_s...26&SUBCAT=Tribune/News/Home%20News Minister's plan to protect Cork and Dublin TRANSPORT minister Noel Dempsey h
84 BrianDromey : Its certainly an interesting way to decrbe FR, ut I suppose at the time FR looked like a godd deal, the SAA could never have forseen that FR would ru
85 EXTspotter : People of Southwest Ireland have to remeber that with mandatory stops in Shannon on the out, this is their future. People of Southwest Ireland, get ov
86 Post contains links and images Shamrock350 : Aer Lingus have yet another winter sale on. www.aerlingus.com Looks like they really want to fill those seats for the winter.
87 Shamrock604 : There are plenty of people from that part of the world, EXT, who are long over themselves and dont buy into this stopover nonsense. It is unfair to b
88 Danny : Obviously not and BD decision is yet another signal that EI took the right decision. This sounds like approach to 28 but It seems you landed on 16??
89 Post contains images BestWestern : The vast majority IMHO Where?
90 F1eddie : Well whatever about the slots in LHR i think its good that the government are appointing two more board members. At least it now makes sense of them e
91 EISHN : Yes ,very much so. There's the tour at Renton, which is quite short. You arrive at the future of flight museum, get your ticket, see a short film, ta
92 Kaitak : You can't really blame the Shannon lobby for feeling aggrieved about this; there's a whiff of "closing the stable after the horse has bolted"; basica
93 EXTspotter : You know exactly where. Thats sounds like OLONO 1E, BEPAN 3E and PESIT 1E off Runway 10.
94 Post contains images Shamrock604 : Well, Ok then.. at least not this one! The problem with this issue is the whole "beal bocht" mentality that exists (thats "Poor mouth" in gaelic to o
95 Kaitak : Just thinking about about this latest attempt by the govt to patch up the LHR issue, it just leaves so many questions unanswered: (a) three directors
96 Post contains images Shamrock604 : Knifed in Limerick? Be careful with that one my sir.. the shannonsiders will be up in arms!
97 BrianDromey : Renton is where the 737 (and formerly 757) are assembled, right? I was interested in doing a tour of Everett, I think ive prob seen enough FR 738s! C
98 Shamrock604 : [I think that may be being a tad unfair. Limerick and surrounds actually has the second highest GDP in the country outside of Dublin and the commuter
99 Eirbus06 : Or "Why has the Cork airport debt issue not been resolved yet"? 100m euro debt would be alot worse than losing ORK-LHR.
100 EIRules : To be honest Kaitak this just sounds to me like another Bertie-led PR mission so if something was to happen no one could say they didnt do anything,
101 Post contains links and images BestWestern : Alitalia MXP Cuts List For April 2008 (by Nycfly75 Oct 2 2007 in Civil Aviation) Ive just been called a Ryanair Cheerleader... Pe@rson will be jealous
102 Post contains images Shamrock604 : Dont worry dude.. i've got your back. Us Aer Lingus fan club members aint gonna stand for this!!!!
103 Post contains images Pe@rson : I'm far more jealous of your tweed jacket with elbow patches! Not a catholic priest, are you?  [Edited 2007-10-07 08:43:19]
104 EXTspotter : Bloody lazy incompetent italians! They're just jealous because Air One is absolute rubbish compared to the might of FR.
105 Post contains images Shamrock604 : Trust a Ryanair supporter to come out with something so filthy! You people really are the lower classes!!!!  [Edited 2007-10-07 10:09:48]
106 Kaitak : Guys, come on, please ... let's not go down that road. Has anyone got any news ...rumours ... wishful thinking (usually my department, but if anyone w
107 Shamrock604 : Kaitak, Dont worry, me and Pearson are just having a laugh. We actually can tolerate each other even though he loves Ryanair. Sorry if you felt it was
108 Post contains images Pe@rson : I'm support no airline... I just dislike FR less the every other carrier.
109 Bramble : Noe thaat would be so entertaining. he can barely answer a question on TV without lokking like aschoolboy who memorised the answer and he thinks he c
110 Post contains images Shamrock604 : Bramble, Every one of you should send him one back! It would be rude not to!
111 Shamrock350 : Was just watching the "X Factor" on TV and they showed a clip of all the hopefuls checking in at Area 14 with the big Aer Lingus sign in the backgroun
112 Tonymctigue : That is someting that I've been wondering for a while now. Whatever you say about SNN as a passenger airport & the lack of a large population base to
113 BrianDromey : To be a little more light hearted here for a second: BA have done an ad with the comedian Pam Ann, its really quite funny. The ad seems to amined at t
114 Post contains links OA260 : Well its taken me all day but here is my new Trip report. Its a bit of everything to be honest. EI / Cruise ship / Irish Dancing / Greek dancing / Rub
115 EXTspotter : It was a challenge on the last series of Britains Next Top Model (yes, I know I am really sad). Anyhow it was really funny. The first girl in that vi
116 Shamrock350 : Mona is my favourite, "I'm Mona, your bitch to Europe" make me laugh everytime and Donna from U2 reminds me of a few people who live on my estate. Th
117 Post contains images EI2KSEA : Hi Brian, the Renton tour is not run any longer. Boeing have now consolidated tours at the visitor centre in Everett about 20 miles north of Seattle.
118 JWMD123 : Thanks for the update Shamrock604. The reason I asked is because all the flights were fairly low coming over my house (about 40 miles west of DUB) an
119 OA260 : News Snippets:: Aer Lingus staff to decide on strike action - AER LINGUS workers will this morning decide whether to proceed with industrial action ov
120 Goldcrest : Jet X - The Icelandic charter company will base aircraft in DUB for next Summer, most likely two B737-800's. Jet X and Budget Travel now share the sam
121 JWMD123 : I notice that the EI/Jet Blue tie up is due to start sometime in October. Anybody have any information on a start date.
122 Post contains links EIDAA : http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/1008/aerlingus.html Aer Lingus threatens to suspend pilots Monday, 8 October 2007 14:32 RTÉ News has learned that Aer Lin
123 Shamrock350 : I think we all know what the outcome of that will be...more misery for Aer Lingus and it's customers. This isnt going to be pretty, I hope for both s
124 Post contains images Pe@rson : Ryanair. Ireland's favourite airline*. * Sorry, couldn't resist.
125 Post contains images Shamrock350 : At least all the goings on at Aer Lingus keeps these threads alive, if it was just FR the thread would go something like this..."Ryanair announce new
126 Post contains images Pe@rson : Guess you mean like FR Dublin to Nice and Dublin to Prague? Now, where's Dublin?   If you're talking about places like Brno (metro 729,000), Lodz (m
127 Post contains images Shamrock350 : It was a joke Pe@rson, in fact it was nearly a complement to FR that they can make a success of routes that other airlines would even think about. Gee
128 Post contains images Pe@rson : Don't worry: I know it was. Anyway, that was one part of it. Another involves people from smaller, less well-known places wanting to visit key cities
129 Post contains images Shamrock350 : Is it me or has A.net started playing up again, kept logging me off We were talking about this today in college, everyone knew it was an Irish airline
130 JWMD123 : Just on FR, I noticed back in August that they said they were increasing flights to BHX to 4 daily for the winter. Checking their timetable for Novemb
131 BrianDromey : Many of these markets, including Poland are markest MOL loudly procliamed he had no interest in.Low and behold when CentralWings, SkyEurope and WizzA
132 Pe@rson : I only recall MOL loudly proclaiming that he had no interest in GDN. Do you have any news links of other cities? I recall that. But I also couldn't f
133 Tonymctigue : EI management are playing with fire at the moment. This is all going to blow in one massive eruption bad industrial relations. Hopefully this will ge
134 OA260 : Yes its been a total nightmare since it went down the other day. Trip reports keep dissapearing incl. mine. You can go into TR's and not see certain
135 Pe@rson : Completely agree. It keeps saying my password is incorrect, it keeps going slowly, viewcount 0, etc.
136 Post contains links Shamrock350 : Just saw this thread: http://dm.airliners.net/discussions/...eneral_aviation/read.main/3645945/ I have to say I hate the colours, doesn't suit BD at a
137 EIDAA : Quick question... does the DL165 service to JFK use pre-clearance in DUB or do you go through it in JFK? They always depart out of Pier B so I hope th
138 OA260 : Yes me also. It took me 3 attempts to post the TR also. I like the PE seats though. The old C class seats. It will be a great product. Escpecially if
139 BrianDromey : Ive found a.net awful over the past few days too.....its got something to do with new servers? Out of interest, all we all PC users on here? Ive made
140 BestWestern : Ive flown from DME on the BD service in J class. Me and one other person had the business cabin and two crew to ourselves... BA can get 17 full rows
141 OA260 : WOW if I knew that AC was going to come to DUB Id be on it like a shot !!! Id love to go on it . Anyone know what flight numbers it operates on and w
142 BrianDromey : Flyertalk lists the BD113/114 as the most likely ones, but I dont think its a daily occurrence. ACARS seems to show it operating ALMOST daily on the e
143 Tonymctigue : Yes I too have noticed a drop in the quality of the a.net service. I'm sure they are just ironing out all the kinks with the new servers. It find it
144 BrianDromey : Honestly, Ive found mine brilliant. its not crashed, timed out, or stalled once in 18 months. Did OSX take some getting used to, yes, but what I like
145 Shamrock350 : I also like Bmi, they are a good airline but to me they always seem in the shadow of BA and VS, that why I was so disappointed with their TV adverts.
146 Rineanna : Yes, that was the only one.
147 Tonymctigue : There was the 0.02 but on top of that, there was of course the baggage check charge & I opted for priority boarding but all in all, the total charge
148 Post contains links JWMD123 : Pe@rson, you are also correct about MAN http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/news....r=07&month=aug&story=rte-en-150807 Another route that has also not inc
149 Shamrock350 : Was just reading another thread on what is expected at the Dubai Air Show and we could see Aer Lingus announce the firming up of their A350/A330 order
150 EXTspotter : Will they be ordering some new 738s for commonality with FR? Give MOL a bone.
151 EI564 : Well...it is possible that the schedule is very much what FR intended. It made a better headline to say that they have all these flights to the UK (e
152 Post contains links Kaitak : Looks like things are steadily getting worse at EI, with industrial action predicted for as soon as this afternoon - although the possibility has been
153 Tonymctigue : I think that it has been swallowed up by the whole strike threat. It really is a case of locking the gate after the horse has bolted. Extra board mem
154 Post contains images OA260 : Just been out shopping and saw this ::: To be honest its not the best place to advertise as its a back street away from the main city center (Newry) .
155 Shamrock350 : That's quite a nice advert, shame it's not in a great place. I hope Aer Lingus start advertising again in London, they still have paper adverts but I
156 Goldcrest : Big advert on the arches as you drive into Gatwick South Terminal....also, lots of advertising on radio stations, and in The Metro, the free paper giv
157 Shamrock350 : I've seen the adverts in the Metro, I always get that on the bus and theres always a lot of airline adverts including EI. I haven't heard any radio a
158 BrianDromey : Three problems with that ad: 1) Those low fares have actually landed at ORK, not BFS! 2) Aer Lingus is way, way, way too small. 3) Only one destinati
159 Post contains images EIRules : What?? I dont understand what you're talking about Again, what? Are you talking about the size of the font (which I think is fine) or the size of the
160 Post contains images BrianDromey : Teh baggage carosules pictures are those at ORK, so the fares have landed in ORK not BFS! My point is simply that the branding in the ads is not stro
161 Shamrock350 : Aer Lingus have a USA sale on now along with the current Europe sale. I thought that too, aerlingus.com is in a corner and very small I think they hav
162 Post contains links and images Shamrock350 : I like the idea of the shamrock in the dot, I wasn happy at the end of the new TV advert to see "aerlingus.com" that should stay on the offer based a
163 Tonymctigue : God it is looking less & less likely that this deadline will be met. Have any of the pilots refused to co-operate yet? I just checked the RTE website
164 Shamrock350 : That's been one long meeting between the pilot unions and management! DM insists the new base will open ontime even if the pilots dont like it, strik
165 Post contains links Shamrock350 : One Pilot Suspended http://www.rte.ie/business/2007/1009/aerlingus.html
166 JWMD123 : Looks like DUB is heading for 23-24m pax
167 Post contains links Kaitak : There are also about 30 other pilots who have resigned from a training clause, to avoid being suspended. IALPA is having an emergency meeting this eve
168 Shamrock350 : Yes and many other problems like logging off randomly, some of the posts not showing in threads and lots of other little but annoying bugs. I thought
169 Post contains images Pe@rson : Yep! Irritating. It was far better before they started playing with it.
170 OA260 : Firstly with regards the Ad in Newry today!!! I drove past the first time and didnt even notice it , it was only on my way home that I did!!! It does
171 Post contains images Tonymctigue : I think for the base to be successsful EI really have no option but to open it on time. If they have to delay the opening & cancel passengers booked
172 OA260 : 4 Pilots now suspended!!! This is going to get worse and worse as the next days roll on .
173 Shamrock350 : That's happened a lot today and when I check a thread, it says it doesn't exist or it's been deleted. This is why DM has lost patience and I cant bla
174 Al2637 : All EI is asking the pilots to do is their job. If they don't do it suspend them, and if they continue to refuse fire them. DM needs to take a hard li
175 EXTspotter : You can't do that though, if you tried, the pilots would sue EI's ass for unfair dismissal. Doing something like that would be stupid. Bad press for E
176 Post contains images OA260 : Yep suspend all the EI pilots and get remote controls to fly the planes !!!
177 Al2637 : I don't know how they could sue them, the pilots who have training as part of their contract are refusing to train others. They are clearly not doing
178 BrianDromey : I can understand why EI pilots are not too willing to train their counterparts, expceailly as they will be doing the same job for less money. Its time
179 OA260 : Whatever anyone says on here you cant make comparisons like that !! As all on here know even though they fail to admit it is that there is a ''unique
180 Al2637 : Why do the British give British passports to people born in NI? Same difference. Again, this has nothing to do with nationality or country. It is to d
181 Shamrock350 : Maybe it would have been easier to start a base at BHX but the government probably "advised" them to choose BFS then theres the much more brand awaren
182 OA260 : Because they maintained for years it was British and the Irish maintained it was theirs also Hence articles 2 and 3 which they only recently removed
183 Tonymctigue : The way BFS is turning out, I'm sure that the thought that are going through the minds of all the EI management is "Why oh why didn't we pick BHX". T
184 Al2637 : Indeed these have been removed. Actually strengthens the case against the argument you are making. (not that I agree nationality has anything to do w
185 Al2637 : aagghh.. this website is driving me crazy tonight... errors errors errors
186 F1eddie : Yup its driving me mad tonight as well. I use Opera and it just wont open all the discussions. Keeps saying no hits. Password issue has nor arisen for
187 Post contains links Kaitak : http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/fro...tpage/2007/1010/1191668857538.html Things are going downhill in a major way; there are now 4 pilots suspended a
188 Tonymctigue : There was an e-mail sent around saying that A.net has been sold & I read somewhere else (can't remember if it was an e-mail or if I read it off websi
189 OA260 : Thats the point I was making. It is a ''unique'' situation and therefore cant be compared to Ireland V Lativa!!! Its not the same thing at all. Not r
190 JWMD123 : I think there is one thing that is being forgotten in the EI/BFS situation. It is the current pilots of EI who are disputing pay and conditions. HOWEV
191 OA260 : LOL...its ok its boring when everyone agrees with eachother. Same way I respect AI2637's views even if I dont agree with them. Anyway whatever happen
192 Bx737 : Speaking from a cabin crew point of view, in our section the training role is an optional role, you don't have to do it, but there is the option to do
193 Bx737 : Aaaaggghhhh this website is driving me crazy. My post has no hits, then I don't exist, then I get the forum menu from two days ago, then the forum dis
194 OA260 : I know , ive never known Anet to be like this . Lets hope its resolved soon. I wonder if there are two versions running because on the Trip reports t
195 Bx737 : Just got the Budget preliminary brochure, they usually have a picture of a Futura 737-800 in full colours, but now it shows the same picture except t
196 BrianDromey : The point was made that Vermot is o a short term contract. I was under the impression that he was brought into the airline as a public servant under s
197 COEI2007 : I had to laugh when I boarded an A330, and I was the only 1 of 9 cabin crew that knew about the pay freeze because I had turned on the news before I
198 COEI2007 : Oh, the ong lfrom Brussells into Amsterdam? Thats what it feels like! I had to laugh when I boarded an A330, and I was the only 1 of 9 cabin crew tha
199 Post contains images Bx737 : Vermot's initial contract was for three years and then renewable on a further year by year basis. IIRC he joined in August 2005, which means he has 1
200 Tonymctigue : Here is a thought I have. Since the FR call for an EGM at EI over the SNN-LHR route being pulled has been shot down twice by EI management, could the
201 OA260 : Aer Lingus actions will shut airline - union The IMPACT trade union has said a warning from Aer Lingus to its pilots to confirm by Monday that they wi
202 Post contains links Kaitak : Per Airwise, EU Commission has rejected EI request to force FR to reduce its shareholding in the company. http://news.airwise.com/story/view/119201251
203 BrianDromey : Nope, I dont read tehe phoenix at all, actually! But I do know that respect for both sides is a necessity in a team situation. I ahve been fortunate
204 Bramble : In the last 2 months IAlPa have been told that there will be no compromise and management have left several of the meetings. These are not the action
205 Bramble : Sorry but my edit somehow changed the font of half my post. never liked computers very much!
206 Tonymctigue : Yes but EI didn't have shareholders to answer to any of those previou times. This time I have no doubt that heads will roll if this issue doesn't get
207 EI564 : Isn't one of the problems that EI aren't going to base future promotions in BFS on seniority but on what they call merit? It would be a completely di
208 Smokeyrosco : Open Letter to EI Pilots EI still seeking the EU to force FR to sell EI shares.
209 BrianDromey : Absolute disgrace. Minion is do far out of his depth, tis not funny. In fact it is grossly serious. Vermot is trying to play the MOL tyle character h
210 Post contains links Kaitak : I think this is very dangerous; the pilots are just going to call his bluff on this. As I said in a previous post, it's a pilot's market out there and
211 Tonymctigue : This is a good move by the unions because as you say, it won't be them who shut down EI but it will be the management, therefore venting the travelli
212 Bramble : Seems strange to me that Mannion sends an open letter threatening...sorry warning of possible suspensions after already suspending 5 pilots. Surely yo
213 Danny : Their only option is Ryanair. That could actually teach them something. I find this astonishing that employees can refuse to perform duties that they
214 OA260 : Totally agree. I think its time for all EI pilots and cabin crew,check in agents and baggage handlers to down tools and ground the airline until mana
215 Danny : Totally disagree. This is not socialist Cuba. Employees get paid for performing their duties. If they are not happy with them they should quit.
216 BrianDromey : They dont (or CC dont anyway) get paid anything extra for these roles. Its just classed as normal duty time, as I understand it. Training is not obli
217 Post contains links and images OA260 : Agree with you there . Cuba has a better health service From the Indo -------------------------- Aer Lingus chaos looming Thursday October 11 2007 UP
218 Bramble : Well at the moment the management are acting as dictatorial fascists.(If you want to throw inflammatory language around) Unilaterally reneging on a c
219 Danny : It is management that is in control of the company not employees. Anyone can explain why EI pilots refuse to recruit and train other pilots?
220 OA260 : Exactly and I also sympathise with staff when a company issues press re lease's on things that affect staff rather than issue internal memos first!!
221 Bramble : As an employee i would be against downing tools as you say. I would be in favour of a work to rule protest. This would show how much flexible staff h
222 EIDAA : Well this thread has certainly taken off... Obviously some strong opinions on both sides. For my part, I have to side with EI on this one. I am sick o
223 Danny : No, it is management (hired by shareholders) who is responsible for running the business. Shareholders can replace the management if they are not hap
224 Bramble : I was referring to his ability to perform his job safely. I have seen exhausted FR crew on flights due to their high workload. I was under the impres
225 Pe@rson : Ryanair takes France to the European Court of Human Rights From Ryanair.com: Ryanair, Europe’s largest low fares airline, has today (10 October 2007
226 BrianDromey : I think you are being very reaonable about it, to be honest. If I were travelling next week, I would be mad as hell as well. As I have said numerous
227 OA260 : Why should you get flamed??? Whilst I strongly disagree with you about BFS being a foreign country and people comparing BFS to RIX which is a lame co
228 Danny : Are you saying UK based pilots cannot fly safely while Irish based can?
229 EI564 : While I think the unions have some valid points, I'm not sure about any of the above. (It would be declaring war on DUB base and DUB is way too impor
230 OA260 : Well it is amazing how EI management have managed to fan the flames on this and how it has gone from relative calm to what seems like all out war. I
231 EIDAA : What I think he was getting at, (correct me if I'm wrong Bramble), was that if the BFS pilot is on different terms and conditions, he/she may be less
232 Post contains images OA260 : LOL...your welcome. Indeed very strong opinions on both sides but as long as they are civil its all good debate. Mind you when things start looking l
233 EIDAA : Very true! That is a good photo though. Also have to enjoy watching RTE's stock footage on EI reports and seeing the old 737s and the 146s.
234 Bramble : Thats was what I was getting at. I wouldn't try to undermine the professionalism of somone based on their nationality. Absolutely agree. Views are ve
235 Post contains images Smokeyrosco : Completely agree with you once again, There are too many armchairs CEO's in the Unions, front seats of some Airbus's and on here, fact of the matter
236 Pe@rson : Goes to show that this is not an Irish thread but rather an EI thread: not one word has been written about FR taking France to the ECHR as per FR's we
237 BrianDromey : I do wonder how an inanimate company can go to the Court of Hman Rights? I assume that this is because the employees are hman, as opposed to the airl
238 OA260 : Yes shame that those A/C are gone now !!! --------------------------------------------------------------------------. Has anyone flown with Cityjet o
239 EIDAA : Speaking of Cityjet, does anyone have any details of how the fleet replacement is going so far? I have flown with them quite a bit this year and have
240 Post contains links EI787 : This will give you an idea of how it's going: http://www.jethros.i12.com/fleets/fleet_listings/cityjet.htm
241 OA260 : " target=_blank>http://www.jethros.i12.com/fleets/fl...t.htm Thanks for the link Padraic. I wonder if CityJet would ever do a similar link with KLM an
242 Shamrock350 : I haven't really commented on this situation because I have just wanted to sit back and see how things go, hoping Aer Lingus pull through but unfortun
243 Danny : Flying time is severely regulated both in UK and Ireland. I think that assumption that pilot who makes a little less money is less safe to fly with i
244 Shamrock350 : Some FR rumours say that they will announce a new Belfast service to Bournemouth. Although I would be surprised to see FR launch this route as perform
245 Kaitak : You mentioned it above, in No. 213. We read it; it got a mention. What else are we supposed to do? There's quite a few occasions when I mention thing
246 Post contains images EIDAA : " target=_blank>http://www.jethros.i12.com/fleets/fl...t.htm Thanks, I keep forgetting that site! It would make sense, but didn't WX say this wouldn't
247 Pe@rson : Some surprisingly excellent FR deals from Ireland to the UK tomorrow (all 1-way, in EUR, and inclusive of taxes), e.g. ORK-STN for 40.46; DUB-STN for
248 BestWestern : Off Topic - But does anyone here use 3 Broadband? A few discussions around here recently about FR's taking everyone and their mother to court recently
249 Shamrock604 : The real issue is more to with KLM being very happy with the arrangement they have with EI on the DUB-AMS route. Despite WX being in the KL/AF family
250 Post contains images Shamrock604 : Not bad... perhaps FR are having some problems filling their airplanes? Unusual for a friday!!!
251 OA260 : True . Maybe they would consider it in future. No but Ive heard good and bad reports about it. I considered getting it at one stage when I couldnt ge
252 Post contains images Pe@rson : I wouldn't worry, Shamrock: the vast majority of the fares are sky-high. I think the most expensive DUB-UK FR flight for tomorrow is DUB-EDI - 242.73
253 OA260 : Aer Lingus suspends two more pilots 17:56Thursday, 11th October, 2007 Aer Lingus today suspended two pilots in ongoing dispute over the development of
254 Smokeyrosco : I'm sitting in DFW at the moment and waiting for my UA flight back to ORD, I really love this airport, with the exception of a slow moving security li
255 EXTspotter : There would be no point in KL ditching EI. As once they swap for WX, the EI bridge has been burned. Save it for a rainy day.
256 Post contains images Shamrock604 : And they have the cheek to talk about high fares Aer Lingus!!! Ghastly....
257 Kaitak : Hope not! I have to say that I avoid flying 146s wherever possible; in six abreast layout, it really is the most uncomfortable aircraft flying. Flybe
258 EXTspotter : We have a few ex Mesaba RJ85s in storage here, but they're going for scrap along with some old BE 146s and Ex - Bacon 146s and DH8-2/3s
259 BrianDromey : I think at this point strife at EI is set in stone, neither side is happy to budge, looks like times will be good for BD/WW and FR, AF/WX and LH for a
260 OA260 : Yes I love UA also and channel 9 is great . More airlines should offer that , its often better than whats on the IFE !! $29 for E+ not nad considerin
261 Bramble : I was referring to conditions not money.900 flight hours is tiring, multiple short sectors to make up 900 are harder than less longer sectors. I reac
262 Smokeyrosco : Couldn't tell you, All I know is I got row 6 out and back which is the very front of Y+ (733 out and a 319 back), It's a 2 hour flight from here to O
263 OA260 : I dont think that you would get UA Y+ to be honest. That perk has even gone for Golds let alone connecting flights. I think it would be BMI in Y+ the
264 Post contains images EIDAA : Ryanair. Ireland's cheapest airline. Aer Lingus. Ireland's least favourite management.
265 BrianDromey : I think BD will be checking me in at MAN all the way through. Either way, Im not too pushed, if I really feel the need, I can always ask at the gate,
266 EXTspotter : Stirrer! Aer Lingus' approach to Industrial Relations is too Sledgehammer, they need the softly softly Toffee Hammer approach. Of course MOL will hav
267 EIDAA : I know, I know, just trying to lighten the mood. When I have trouble getting to the States next week because of an EI strike, all I will be able to d
268 Smokeyrosco : Ohh yeah I know that but you can change your seat etc at the machines airside also, I think UA are trying to remove people as much as possible from c
269 BestWestern : EI tried this for decades, and nearly bankrupt them twice... EI needs to lower their costs to survive. For example the Shannon check-in staff demandi
270 EIRules : I have held off from saying anything on the whole subjest in the vain hope that it may just blow over. But clearly that is not going to come to pass.
271 Shamrock350 : I have a feeling they may have a backup plan, they are very confident for airline that could be shut down in a few days. I think we all have a feelin
272 BestWestern : EI will face the unions down. Otherwise they have a lot to lose. The labour courts have already ruled that Northern Ireland is a different market. EI
273 Rineanna : Lads, Just to let ye know (if it already hasn't been mentioned), Vermot is on Prime Time after the news; should make for some interesting viewing! Mir
274 OA260 : Did EI give discounted or free seats to the Irish Special Olympics team??? I seem to remember they were sponsoring it!! Nice to see the Irish team get
275 BestWestern : Can we not all grow up, and call him by his proper name, or is this the best we can do at debate?
276 Bramble : Tuned in and eagerly awaiting some nuggets of wisdom from VM......................................
277 Shamrock350 : I would also prefer we call him by his real name. At first it was just a joke as RTE spelt his name wrong but now it seems we are using it as stupid n
278 OA260 : Miriam you go girl !!!! LOL.... Yes its nail biting lol..... popcorn at the ready LOL....
279 Shamrock350 : How was DM on Primetime, I just caught the end of him talking about nearly 500 pilots now at EI and that they have kept their promises to shareholders
280 BestWestern : I watched Greys Anatomy.
281 OA260 : It was a bit of a anti climax to be honest. Mark Little does not have the same interviewing powers as Miriam IMHO. I wouldnt want to get on the wrong
282 Shamrock350 : Shame would have liked to hear more of what DM had to say and how he handled the questions, when I turned it on he seemed very calm and determined to
283 Irish251 : Mark Little was quite hostile, I thought, but Mannion kept his cool and spelled out clearly what this is about and why EI management want to bring mat
284 Bramble : Have to agree here. A very short interview for such a serious situation. He refused to say whether he would talk to the union if invited tomorrow mor
285 OA260 : I know LOL.... I know we probably should because I actually started seeing VM when it was DM lol..... -----------------------------------------------
286 Shamrock350 : I will start it right away but I will finish it tomorrow afternoon because I have the day off thankfully. Imagine if I didn't have any of these desig
287 Tonymctigue : Thank you EIDAA. It is greatly appreciated. This has been my thought now since this whole row started. BFS has in the past proven difficult fo make m
288 OA260 : No rush Shamrock350, Just know your the man to do it . You could go down the ''da Treaty centre'' in Hounslow LOL.. I have to say going back to Houns
289 Bx737 : Wasn't DM voted Ireland's worst CEO last year. Also Phoenix magazine runs an article that DM defintely would not want to put into his CV. That is tru
290 Post contains links Shamrock350 : I know what you mean! Harrow was quite green when I arrived, now we have huge buildings, apartment blocks and shopping centers everywhere, plus reall
291 OA260 : Sorry I mised this some how . Really good post and makes alot of sense. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes I
292 Post contains links Irish251 : That looks like a VC-10 plus some fast jets. I doubt they were landing at Northolt - more likely on a flypast over London - and indeed I doubt that a
293 Shamrock604 : That would be EI-DJJ that you saw, which is a Bae 146. RJJ is not yet in the fleet of RJ85's as far as I know.
294 BrianDromey : I ahve to say, I find my views on this situation aligned with the employees. I know, its easy for me to sit here and say Dermot is doing the arse, an
295 F1eddie : Interesting reading again today. I personally do not really know who to side on as i see points on both side. Suffice to say i really hope this gets s
296 Kaitak : Yes, I've done that - well, DUB-SOU on Sunday. It really is a lovely aircraft. As far as I'm aware, the service entry has been very smooth; I haven't
297 Kaitak : Yes, I've done that on a Sunday, from DUB-SOU. Really, really nice aircraft. After so long having to put up with 146s and not being able to move my e
298 Kaitak : Yes, I've done that on a Sunday, from DUB-SOU. Really, really nice aircraft. After so long having to put up with 146s and not being able to move my e
299 Tonymctigue : Yes my sterred topics keep disappearing & when I tried doing a "show all" to see the latest posts, it would only show up to about 120 posts or so & t
300 Bx737 : Brian I found your comments to be very interesting. With regard to ground handling, in 2002 I think, WW decided that EI would no longer handle other a
301 Bx737 : Aaaaagggggghhhhh my fantastic post got lost in cyber space Anyway to repeat myself, not easy when one is a one finger typist: BrianDromey made the poi
302 JWMD123 : This is also in the independent today about EI considering their next base already. This is a bit of a shock to me they are considering the states. I
303 JWMD123 : At least there looks like there might be progress this weekend. I think all of us have our fingers crossed. Really interesting to hear about the comm
304 JWMD123 : At least there looks like there might be progress this weekend. I think all of us have our fingers crossed. Really interesting to hear about the comm
305 OA260 : Very good points and certainly something that should be implemented. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------. New
306 OA260 : Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 282): Check-in numbers have already been reduced, but the splitting up of check-in areas is not good, EI could get away wit
307 OA260 : Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 282): Check-in numbers have already been reduced, but the splitting up of check-in areas is not good, EI could get away wit
308 Post contains links Shamrock350 : http://www.independent.ie/business/i...ongoing-pilot-dispute-1164547.html The fast jets could be the Red Arrows or Tornados, those aircraft didn't la
309 Irish251 : In relation to the BFS service, is it only the pilots that are making an issue of the new terms and conditions of employees based there? Surely the ve
310 Oa260 : WOW thank god im not the only one that posted 3 times LOL...there are still serious issues with the servers and Anet in general. Just some tipps with
311 Shamrock350 : That's what I've been doing but sometimes it tells me that only members can use this feature, I have to log out and log in again to use it. This been
312 Tonymctigue : Yes something is still very seriously wrong. My last post was at about 08:00AM but it didn't appear until hours after. Anyway, I was reading in today
313 Dstc47 : Yes the board has gone downhill in recent days - blank screens, links failing, not refreshing etc. This failed to upload, screen went blank etc etc. O
314 Shamrock604 : EI have machines at LHR, and you can use the KLM machines at AMS. I Guess you would need to have a certain number of flights at a station to make the
315 Dstc47 : Yes CDG has the volume. Over two years since any new machines, I believe.
316 Post contains images Bx737 : I posted a thread twice this morning and it is lost in cyberspace somewhere (probably near EI mgmts grasp on reality ) Kaitak would I be right in sa
317 OA260 : Concerned travel agents avoiding Aer Lingus Friday, 12th October, 2007 Travel agents are avoiding making bookings with Aer Lingus because of the incre
318 Shamrock604 : No problem, happy to be of help! Best of luck to all of you in EI in these difficult times.
319 OA260 : It says the last time i checked onto Anet was 14th September!! Has everyone got the same info??? Im wondering if there are 2 versions of Anet running
320 Tonymctigue : That would certainly explain a lot if there were.
321 Tonymctigue : Was anyone listening to The Last Hook there about ten minutes ago? The chairman of the Atlantic Connectivity Allinace was interviewed. Apparently they
322 Shamrock604 : Yup, I agree. Much better than whinging and trying to force a private company into doing so by means of trial by media. Only problem is, can a non AO
323 Post contains links Kaitak : Well, folks, end of a long week and while I'm sitting here watching Fr. Ted (the one with Graham Norton in the cave ... "let's have a screeching compe
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