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Commerical Airlines At YIP?  
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19203 posts, RR: 52
Posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1952 times:

Does YIP have the capability of having a scheduled commerical airline (using 737/320-sized machines) based there and operated to/from there? It has 5 runways; only has 330 or so daily movements, the vast majority GA; has what looks like a sizeable terminal as per its airport diagram; and is only 33 miles from central Detroit and is convenient for a good amount of the Detroit metro area. What about ramp/taxiway/terminal infrastructure? What about licensing? What about emergency service provisions? I'd appreciate any answers. Thanks.


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKstatepilot From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1952 times:

YIP is used mostly for cargo operators. There are quite a few bigger aircraft there, including an A300.

USA Jet has a base in YIP. Kalitta has a sizeable operation there. There are some smaller operators that have bases there, Air Cargo Carriers and Alliance Aviation come to mind real quick.


User currently offlineRJFlyer0891 From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 86 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1952 times:

XE operates charters into YIP about once a month on 145XR's

User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19203 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1952 times:

Yeah, I realise YIP is mainly GA and cargo. But does it have the capability of becoming a base for a LC pax scheduled airline?


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineDeltaAVL From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1893 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1952 times:

Sounds like a possible Skybus candidate...


"We break, We bend, With hand in hand, When hope is gone, Just hang on." -Guster
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19203 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1952 times:

Quoting DeltaAVL (Reply 4):
Sounds like a possible Skybus candidate...

That kinda thing. But thinking more about a base rather than just another destination.

Of course, PTK is another candidate - so long as it the capability - with its convenient location to central Detroit (37mi) and metro. Detroit, with the added advantage of being convenient for both Lansing (63mi) and Flint (35mi).



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1952 times:

I've heard YIP might be (or already is?) planning on extending one of its runways. Looking at the diagram of it... it is kind of a strange looking airport. Not really much of taxiways anywhere... just a lot of runways jumbled up.

Although, I can't see why anyone would choose to use YIP or PTK for service. It seems like normally these outlying airports are chosen by LCCs when the main airport is expensive, overburdened, and full of delays... as far as I know, DTW is not like that.

Then again, I remember that ProAir was based at DET (which, by looking at satellite pics, has a dormant terminal with jetbridges and all). Other airlines have served DET in the past too.


User currently onlineRIXrat From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 788 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1952 times:

I may be showing my ignorance here, but regarding YIP, isn't the "Y" a designation for a Canadian airport?

User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19203 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1952 times:

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 6):
Although, I can't see why anyone would choose to use YIP or PTK for service. It seems like normally these outlying airports are chosen by LCCs when the main airport is expensive, overburdened, and full of delays... as far as I know, DTW is not like that.

I suspect DTW is more delay-prone than either YIP or PTK would be. I suspect DTW wouldn't offer massive incentives, e.g. major discounts if not entirely free, marketing support, training support, for airlines to fly there: it wouldn't need to. To gain cost advantage over rivals, you'd need to get major cost savings, and I suspect DTW wouldn't enable that. Lots of IFs there: we don't know what DTW would offer, wouldn't offer, could provide, etc.

Anyway, DET is one I forgot.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 9, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1952 times:

UA and EA used to fly DC 8's and TW flew 707's out of YIP before June of 66. For more heavy metal, Kalitta flew stretch 8's and 747's from YIP.

B 25's were built there during WW2..

The runway configuration goes back to the 30's.

Runways at DET are only just over 6000 ft while the YIP longest is just over 7000.

I never thought about Skybus at YIP.....could be a possibility. There's quite a population base in Western Wayne county
and YIP is very close to Ann Arbor and U of M and it 40,000 plus enrollment.

I almost forgot Eastern Michigan U at Yipsi...there's another 20,000 plus student count.

safe

[Edited 2007-10-07 13:55:33]


If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4499 posts, RR: 33
Reply 10, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1952 times:

I may be showing my ignorance here, but regarding YIP, isn't the "Y" a designation for a Canadian airport?

YIP is near Ypsilanti, Michigan, home of Eastern Michigan University. That's probably it--Detroit-area experts can confirm or correct.

Jim



Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
User currently offlineVctony From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1952 times:

YIP does indeed stand for Ypsilanti. Although the city's name does not have the "i" that the airport does. Both of my parents were graduates of Eastern Michigan.

Additionally, YIP served as the original location for Avis Rent-A-Car.

[Edited 2007-10-07 16:43:35]

User currently offlineTb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1586 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1952 times:

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 9):
Runways at DET are only just over 6000 ft while the YIP longest is just over 7000.

DET is only 5010' IIRC without looking. I don't even like going in there wet in a Lear or Falcon yet I can't believe ProAir used to go in there in 737's. I have also heard the SWA flew in there before moving to DTW. That is not a very nice neighborhood either.

Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 10):
YIP is near Ypsilanti, Michigan, home of Eastern Michigan University. That's probably it--Detroit-area experts can confirm or correct.

That is correct, I spent 5 fine years there getting my degree in Aviation Management, we even have a flight school now at YIP. Go Eagles! And if you can't figure it out, Ypsilanti is pronounced "ip-si-lan-tee"

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 6):
I've heard YIP might be (or already is?) planning on extending one of its runways. Looking at the diagram of it... it is kind of a strange looking airport. Not really much of taxiways anywhere... just a lot of runways jumbled up.

They are working up a storm on the runways right now, they cleaned up intersections and runway ends some and added a taxiway(G) so they could do this summers work last year. This year they shortened 23R/5L about 5-600', 23L/5R is being worked on now but not being extended although it will be the main landing runway with the ILS both ways. 27R/9L is going to be extended to 9000' probably next year and 27L/9R will be no more and become a taxiway or be developed. This is all mostly just the buzz around the airport but my sources are pretty solid. I just wish they'd hurry up with 5R/23L, the ILS is out right now until the end of the month and if it gets foggy or we get low ceilings, we can't get in and have to go to DTW.

All in all, it's an airport with great history and great ATC guys in the Tower 24/7. I don't really want an LCC here though, leave it to us Freight Dogs and student pilots.



Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
User currently offlineVctony From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1952 times:

I doubt that there will be much in terms of commercial airline service at YIP. The airport is owned and operated by the Wayne County Airport Authority, which also owns and operated DTW. With the billions of dollars funneled into DTW (the new terminals, runway, etc.) I highly doubt that the airport authority would encourage scheduled passenger operations at an airport 14 miles away, not to mention the expense in renovating the terminal there.

User currently offlineFlyNTE From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 39 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1952 times:

Although I don't know all of the details, there is an agreement that prohibits commercial service from YIP. I don't know if this agreement went into effect in the mid-1980s when Northwest and Republic merged, or if it happened when the new McNamara Terminal opened at DTW in 2002. In any case, it exists primarily so that carriers cannot operate at YIP at much lower rates than they could at DTW.

DTW and YIP are managed by the same entity - the Wayne County Airport Authority. The Authority was created in 2002; prior to that time, both airports were managed by Wayne County (Michigan). The Authority would like to develop YIP into a cargo hub, and the extension of runway 9L/27R, expected to be completed in 2013, will help in these efforts.

DET is operated by the City of Detroit. Commercial service is not permitted because the airport does not have its Part 139, Class IV certificate. (IIRC, DET lost this about two years ago.) WN did operate at DET many years ago but eventually moved to DTW and recently celebrated 20 years of operating in Detroit.


User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6813 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1952 times:

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 9):
B 25's were built there during WW2..

Willow Run was famous for its B-24s-- did North American have a plant there too?


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7551 posts, RR: 28
Reply 16, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1952 times:

As others have said the WCAA operates both DTW & YIP and they will not allow scheduled commercial flights at YIP.

There is no logical reason to open up YIP for commerical service when DTW is all of about 10 minutes away down I-94. It has the runways to handle ops, as Kalitta lands cargo 747's there on a semi-regular basis. YIP does not have the terminal, parking, and security infrastructure to handle scheduled service and it would a stupid investment to do so when DTW has ample capacity.

DET hasn't had commerical air service since 2001 and its certification has since lapsed. The airport is not viable for many reasons - including short runway, narrow runway (100 ft wide), location / neighborhood, and NIMBY.

PTK, as we have discussed many of times is GA only and also not suited for commerical ops. No terminal infrastructure, NIMBY, and proximity between DTW & FNT.


User currently offlineDMAJ7TH From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 38 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1952 times:

Quoting RIXrat (Reply 7):
I may be showing my ignorance here, but regarding YIP, isn't the "Y" a designation for a Canadian airport?

Country (area) identification is used in four letter ICAO coding, not three letter IATA coding. ICAO coding for Canada is actually"C", and it just so happens that the second letter for each Canadian ICAO code is also a "Y". The full ICAO for Ypsilanti is KYIP, but your luggage tag specifies IATA - "YIP, ATL, PHL, etc etc". Our flight plans filed with ATC use four letters - "KYIP, CYUL, PANC, etc etc".

I hope this helps!


User currently offlineTjwgrr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2433 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1952 times:

Heavy metal regulars at KYIP:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/MUA921

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/MUA865

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/MUA872



Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 19, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1952 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 16):
a stupid investment

Ya really think so? Sooooooooo, how come Skybus is going to fly into Punta Gurda FL instead of RSW?
They may be on to something...
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineB757capt From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1374 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1952 times:

Quoting DeltaAVL (Reply 4):
Sounds like a possible Skybus candidate...



Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 19):
Ya really think so? Sooooooooo, how come Skybus is going to fly into Punta Gurda FL instead of RSW?
They may be on to something...
safe

DING DING DING



The views written by this user are in no manner the views of my employer and should not be thought as such.
User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5408 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1952 times:

Quoting DMAJ7TH (Reply 17):
ICAO coding for Canada is actually"C", and it just so happens that the second letter for each Canadian ICAO code is also a "Y".

...and a few U, W, and Zs ... although they don't have corresponding 3 letter IATA codes I believe.

Although nothing is written in stone about the 3-letters Y's being Canadian, there aren't many that don't fit. There are only a few USA 3-letter codes that I can find ... YIP, YUM, YKM, YAK, and YNG, and I guarantee a few people are confused when seeing USA flight plans to the more obscure ones (YKM?).

Only international ICAO flight planes need to filed using the ICAO 4-letter code ... domestic USA can use the 3-letter, hence the possible confusion for those that think 'Y' must be Canada  Wink


Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineAirlinelover From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 5580 posts, RR: 23
Reply 22, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1952 times:

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 5):
Of course, PTK is another candidate - so long as it the capability - with its convenient location to central Detroit (37mi) and metro. Detroit, with the added advantage of being convenient for both Lansing (63mi) and Flint (35mi).

The issue with PTK remains that they have no concourse, no real terminal, next to no security except the Waterford PD. They'd have to build a term, parking, etc from the ground up.

While they did recently expand the main rwy (9R/27L) to 6200 feet, it is simply not economical for the airport to expand to that type of commercial aviation.

Now, if you like 727's, Contract Air Cargo flies some out of there..  Wink

Chris



Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7551 posts, RR: 28
Reply 23, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1923 times:

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 19):
Ya really think so? Sooooooooo, how come Skybus is going to fly into Punta Gurda FL instead of RSW?
They may be on to something...
safe

Yes, I do thing it would be a dumb idea for the county to invest money to open up YIP to commerical ops. The WCAA is spending plenty of money on the new North terminal at DTW, which should they open up another airport 10 minutes away? Money is scare enough in this region as it is.


User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 24, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1861 times:

Agreed on the $$$ situation. I also believe Wayne County is not going to promote YIP to a passenger
facility with DTW 10-12 minute ride to the east. I do think the geo area is ripe IF this can happen...
The population numbers in a 10 mile radius of YIP is staggering, especially to the west with Ann Arbor and
U of M.
But we are in agreement.
On the Punta Gorda FL, this is going to be real interesting with Skybus trying a whole new airport and market.
Punta Gorda to the north of RSW, will draw from Sarasota which is underserved and south.
This is one of those..."stay tuned" places.
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
25 NASCARAirforce : Murray has DC-8s and CASA 212s based there Kalita has a huge operation of its smaller charter planes - Lears, Falcons etc. Kalita used to have a huge
26 Isitsafenow : Yep...your're right. YIP was the birthplace of Rosie the Riveter, who help built the B-24. safe
27 Post contains images 2H4 : Also "ip-si-tuk-ee". My great-grandmother was a "Rosie". She had a few good stories, but I wish I'd gotten more out of her before she died last year.
28 WA707atMSP : Unfortunately, the NIMBYs would scream if anyone tried to bring commercial air service into PTK, especially a "downscale" airline like SkyBus. As men
29 PSU.DTW.SCE : L. Brooks Patterson, need I say more. Its not the NIMBY's from Bham/Troy, but more from the Waterford / West Bloomfield / Commerce / Highland crowd.
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