Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
AA Dropping SYR/ROC-DFW  
User currently offlineTeneriffe77 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 468 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3388 times:

I was looking at AA's schedule for January and the flights from ROC and SYR to DFW don't show and I also noticed that MDT-ORD is down to 2 daily. Does anyone know why the routes are being dropped?

25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHPAEAA From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1024 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3388 times:

Quoting Teneriffe77 (Thread starter):
I was looking at AA's schedule for January and the flights from ROC and SYR to DFW don't show and I also noticed that MDT-ORD is down to 2 daily. Does anyone know why the routes are being dropped?

I'd imagine they could make more on the DFW runs by doing 2 1 hour flights as opposed to 1 long flight.... granted I don't know for sure.. just a hypothesis....



Why do I fly???
User currently offlineElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1538 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3388 times:

If this is true, which doesn't surprise as me as American has been on and off with its DFW-Upstate New York flights for the past 7 years, it means that we'll hear a new Eagle route announcement soon, maybe something from JFK?

User currently offlineTeneriffe77 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 468 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3388 times:

I doubt JFK because there's already DL and B6 on that route and JFK is having capacity issues at certain times of the day. What AA realy needs is some more planes. It seems as though every other carrier has some connection planes on order while AA can't seem to expand the Eagle fleet at all.

User currently offlineAkizidy214 From Jamaica, joined Sep 2006, 408 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3388 times:

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 2):
it means that we'll hear a new Eagle route announcement soon, maybe something from JFK?

JFK will not see any CRJ'S from MQ. It will be something out of XNA, DFW, or ORD.



DCA
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32736 posts, RR: 72
Reply 5, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3388 times:

There were rumours of SFO-XNA lately. I wonder if a CR7 is put on that.


a.
User currently offlinePanAm330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2672 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3388 times:

Damnit! The one unique route to SYR, and it's gone!  Sad

User currently offlineUnited_fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7485 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2860 times:

I know DFW-BUF was already dropped. That's too bad.


'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineBaw2198 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 637 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2843 times:

some much for avoiding ORD now. AA doesn't make any sense not sending any equip to JFK when that is one of their major hubs, unless that status has changed recently. UA runs IAD and ORD out of ROC, and as for as i know, with preatty goods loads.

Quoting Teneriffe77 (Reply 3):
I doubt JFK because there's already DL and B6 on that route

But AA doesn't code share with DL and B6, so that doesn't make any sense.

Capacity wise your right, it make for a bigger cluster at JFK.



"And remember, Keep your stick on the ice"--->Red Green
User currently offlineTAN FLYR From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1906 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2816 times:

Well Gents it comes down to one thing,,PROFITABILITY! If those routes were not performing profitable enough to justify all the expenses...and the opportunities elsewhere are better, then they will probably be dropped. AA is under the gun from serveral angles right now. This is unfortunate because it gave you guys the much easier connections at DFW. I use the DFW-FWA route as often as possible just to save time so I uderstand.

In thend your loss will be someones gain..we will just have to watch and see where they pop up.


User currently offlineUnited_Fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7485 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2779 times:

Quoting Baw2198 (Reply 8):
UA runs IAD and ORD out of ROC

UA used to do ORD-ROC-IAD-ROC-ORD on 1 flight per day before 9/11. They seem to have good loads,ACA used to use JS31's to IAD,now its up to CR7's.



'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2735 times:

Are these seasonal drops?????

User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4499 posts, RR: 33
Reply 12, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2634 times:

AA seems to just keep undermining itself in Upstate New York. As BAW and Tan Flyer noted, DFW was a really good option for avoiding the delay nightmare at O'Hare. An AA competitive advantage over UA on westbound gone.

I doubt very much, however, that these routes (or the dropped BUF-DFW for that matter) were unprofitable. DOT data for early 2007 showed daily pax from ROC and SYR to the Metroplex at well over 100 pax. These a/c, which probably have a good component of connecting pax, are likely being filled profitably.

But as Tan Flyer noted, AA is under the gun from several angles right now. Notably, AA's draconian scope clause limits them to their tiny fleet of 25 70-seaters, and those aircraft have to be husbanded carefully. Wth only 25 70-seaters, AA needs to put them in the most profitable places.

Not surprised, MAH, to hear of XNA-SFO as a possibility. The WalMart corporate udder seems to be giving Eagle lots of high-yield milk, given the nonstop XNA routes they've started. All Hail the Yellow Smiley!

EXAAUADL--I'd doubt the drops are seasonal, though I hope they are. In a number of our discussions, AA experts have noted that AA tries to avoid seasonal flying.

Jim

[Edited 2007-10-10 10:19:48]


Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
User currently offlinePanAm330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2672 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2557 times:

If AA could get the scope clause altered when they do the negotiations with the pilots, and get more 70 seaters, does anyone think that DFW-SYR will be brought back? Is AA going to add an additional flight or 2 to ORD to compensate? I'd prefer JFK, to be honest. I doubt that'll happen, but one can hope  pray .

User currently offlineElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1538 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2475 times:

Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 4):
JFK will not see any CRJ'S from MQ. It will be something out of XNA, DFW, or ORD.

I didn't say CR7s, they would repalce ERJs with CRJs, freeing those up for JFK.


User currently offlinePanAm330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2672 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2464 times:

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 14):
they would repalce ERJs with CRJs

The only CRJs that MQ flies are -700s. All other jets are ERJs.


User currently offlineTeneriffe77 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 468 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2464 times:

I would beg to differ about AA avoiding seasonal routes given their ski flights (in particular EGE) during the winter and their summer flights to places like TVC.

User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4499 posts, RR: 33
Reply 17, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2142 times:

I would beg to differ about AA avoiding seasonal routes given their ski flights (in particular EGE) during the winter and their summer flights to places like TVC.

I'm just reporting what others much more informed about AA's schedules than I have been saying here. They'll need to chime in. I would note that TVC and Colorado skiing flights are a very tiny proportion of AA flights, though.

PanAm330--I was wondering the same thing about ORD, if AA would increase capacity to compensate. Current AA online timetable shows ROC-ORD 4x ER4 daily, and ROC-DFW 1x CR7 daily. January 15 and January 27 show the same schedule for ORD. Fri. Feb 15 shows 3x ER4 ROC-ORD and Feb. 27 shows 4x ER4 ROC-ORD. January 15 and 27, and February 15 and 27, show no ROC-DFW nonstops.

So at least according to the AA website today--which is more or less a placeholder this far out--AA does not seem to be compensating for the loss of ROC-DFW with more capacity on smaller RJ's to ORD. Just more cut capacity in Upstate NY.

I have to begin to wonder if AA is going to leave Upstate NY altogether at this rate. At ROC, this is by far the smallest capacity of any carrier except Air Canada's 2x daily Air Georgian B1900's to YYZ. I don't see how AA is going to compete long-term at ROC against UA, when UA runs around 6 weekday on ROC-ORD, including typically 3x weekday mainline.

Jim



Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
User currently offlineUnited_Fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7485 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1965 times:

Well,so much for mainline possibly returing next year  Sad


'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlinePVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3412 posts, RR: 17
Reply 19, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1960 times:

AA hasn't compensated much of anything in any market after a pull-down. When PVD went from 3X ORD M80 and 1X DFW M80, we got 3X ERD to ORD - and still have that exact schedule today. Perhaps what upstate and places like PVD need, is a way for AA to grow JFK again a bit. 2X ER3s on JFK-BUF/ROC/SYR/ALB/PVD would be great. BDL and BOS have second hub access (and more), so perhaps the northeast markets that have ORD only could get these JFK flights - who knows...

User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11559 posts, RR: 61
Reply 20, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 1960 times:

The cuts aren't permanent!

Both flights will, indeed, be returning on April 7, 2008 - available for booking at AA.com. They're just going away from January to April - probably just so the CRJs can get maintenance or something.

Quoting Teneriffe77 (Reply 16):
I would beg to differ about AA avoiding seasonal routes given their ski flights (in particular EGE) during the winter and their summer flights to places like TVC.

The Vail/other Colorado ski market flights are a rare exception, along with other one-offs like DFW-ANC. By and large, AA has, indeed, steered away from seasonal flying in recent years and is trying to avoid seasonally-intensive peak-demand markets that make money in the summer but lose buckets in the winter (Glasgow comes to mind, etc.). Arpey has said it himself on numerous occasions.


User currently offlineAA777LVR From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 216 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 1960 times:

Actually, from what I've heard around the "shop"....we're likely to see quite a lot of trimming of the schedule in the first half of 2008. Apparently, it has to do with the fact that quite a number of flowbacks from AA (now in the left seat at Eagle) will be going back to AA. Therefore, to avoid a replay of the crew staffing fiasco seen at NW a few months ago....AA/AE is trimming the schedule to head off problems during the transition of AE captains to AE and upgrade training of FO's, etc. The company is going to use this time to put more aircraft into maintenance (i.e. the weight modifications on the E145's, etc.).

-AA777LVR


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11559 posts, RR: 61
Reply 22, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 1960 times:

Quoting AA777LVR (Reply 21):
Apparently, it has to do with the fact that quite a number of flowbacks from AA (now in the left seat at Eagle) will be going back to AA. Therefore, to avoid a replay of the crew staffing fiasco seen at NW a few months ago

Makes sense given the extreme flight crew shortage at Eagle recently. At least - if the rumor is to be believed - the company is being proactive instead of following the NW model (over-schedule, blame pilots and weather, lather, rinse, repeat).


User currently offlineBuddys747 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 527 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 1783 times:

Quoting Teneriffe77 (Thread starter):
I also noticed that MDT-ORD is down to 2 daily. Does anyone know why the routes are being dropped?

I'm not sure why they keep dropping flights. They did have 4 daily MDT-ORD, now 3, then down to 2. Each month the load factors were in the upper 70% range, now they are in the 90% range due to 1 less flight a day. Cutting it down to 2 might send more customers to UA instead since the capacity won't be there, especially since they (UA) offer mainline service. The MDT-DFW service has had loads of upper 70%-90%. Hopefully that service will stay. Seems like AE needs more aircraft!


User currently offlinePanAm330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2672 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1702 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 20):
The cuts aren't permanent!

Thanks for delivering some good news, Commavia! But if they cancel it, I may come after you!  Wink


User currently offlinePanAm330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2672 posts, RR: 9
Reply 25, posted (6 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1702 times:

Quoting Buddys747 (Reply 23):
Seems like AE needs more aircraft!

Specifically those in the 70-seat range, yes. I'd love for them to be able to order about 50 CRJ-900s or EMB-190s and base them in MIA, but that's for my enjoyment.  Wink Too bad AA's scope clause sucks.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
May 17th DFW AA Jet Back To DFW? posted Fri Jun 1 2007 06:37:08 by Ndalsteve
Would AA Ever Re-start DFW-MAD posted Wed May 30 2007 04:14:12 by CIDflyer
AA Eagle To Fly DFW-ROW posted Fri May 25 2007 15:03:45 by AJMIA
Connecting From AA To US At DFW, Need Help? posted Tue Apr 24 2007 00:29:35 by Venezuela747
How Does AA Sustain 777 Service DFW-FRA? posted Mon Mar 19 2007 01:48:31 by UAL747
AA To Bid For DFW-Beijing Route? posted Wed Oct 11 2006 15:47:07 by Usnseallt82
AA Dropping BOS-SNN posted Wed Aug 2 2006 17:53:32 by PVD757
AA Will Apply For DFW-China Flights posted Thu Jul 20 2006 02:52:12 by Texdravid
AA Dropping SJC-NRT posted Sat May 13 2006 01:32:03 by Dc10s4ever
AA Eagle Gates At DFW posted Fri Mar 3 2006 09:10:19 by DFW13L