It seems the new government thinks it can revitalise JM and make better use of the slots. This might be a very sticky situation as VA has already been making plans and selling seats. Recent treads on A.net pointed out that the route for JM has been un- profitable . The former JA. govt. also said that was one of the reasons for this deal with VA. Lets see what happens.
Jfk777 From United States, joined Aug 2006, 3484 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2102 times:
Air Jamaica should do what its good at, flying A320 to North America from many cities for people going on vacation to Jamaica. A340 flights to LHR are a completely different animal that serve government ministers going on shopping trips free in First Class but not the entire airline.
Mop357 From United States, joined Mar 2007, 62 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2037 times:
Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 1): Air Jamaica should do what its good at, flying A320 to North America from many cities for people going on vacation to Jamaica. A340 flights to LHR are a completely different animal that serve government ministers going on shopping trips free in First Class but not the entire airline.
LOL. You forgot the A321's
I completley agree. But JM also lost a lot of travelers with its tardiness. Vcations to Jamaica are awesome but when its time to leave you want to go. No one wants to spend extra time in a hot KIN airport in the middle of July wiht only fans blowing. It quite a myserable feeling to be waiting at the airport watching planes come and go while knowing your flight is leaving around the time it should of been landing.
I think JM should work on their internal problems before they do anything with another compnay. Most Jamaicans want to support Jamaica by taking JM but the tardiness is unbearalble.
JM017 From Jamaica, joined Jun 2002, 903 posts, RR: 1 Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1902 times:
Quoting Mop357 (Reply 2):
I think JM should work on their internal problems before they do anything with another compnay. Most Jamaicans want to support Jamaica by taking JM but the tardiness is unbearalble.
I totally agree. I have said the same thing here.
Quoting Mop357 (Reply 2): But JM also lost a lot of travelers with its tardiness.
And their tardiness was a big issue on the LHR run. And not tardy as in 30 minutes late. Tardy as in 5 or 6 hours late. On the London route, BA would be the way to go (well from KIN anyway).
Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 1): Air Jamaica should do what its good at, flying A320 to North America from many cities for people going on vacation to Jamaica. A340 flights to LHR are a completely different animal that serve government ministers going on shopping trips free in First Class but not the entire airline.
Flying the A320s to North America for tourists is not the path to profitability either, whether they are good at it or not. Fact is, BA is able to operate KIN-LGW and make it work, and Virgin Atlantic has been able to make MBJ-LGW qork, so these routes can work. JM needs the right size aircraft for the route and sort out their issues. I think 767 flights would be great personally.
I wont comment on the government ministers crack.
"Behind every successful man is a woman, behind her is his wife." - Groucho Marx
2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 5 Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1902 times:
The Bottomline after so many news about JM, its "new" fleet, its routes, its LHR slots and so on is JM and its owners don't have a clue WHAT kind of airline they want for the island.
They're trying to please everyone, the tourist/hotel industry, the VFR market, the businesstravelers, the Jamaican politicians who want to travel for free, the ones who want to keep the prestige LHR slots, et al.
That's not working and it costs Jamaica millions.
And If they want to keep flying to London, IMHO, then better sell those LHR slots, get a economical widebody suited for that route (and others in Northamerica) and operate out of LTN (or STN).
ERJ170 From United States, joined Apr 2004, 5784 posts, RR: 22 Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 1798 times:
Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 1): Air Jamaica should do what its good at, flying A320 to North America from many cities for people going on vacation
I would love to see Air Jamaica invest in some Embraer 170 and 190.. and serve more North, Central, and South American locations.. and use Kingston and Montego Bay as both a destination and connecting point.. I think it is a good location to take people BWI-MBJ-Santiago.. MCI-MBJ-Aruba.. SAT-MBJ-Brasila.. there are so many options for them.. all it would do is shift was is MIA to MBJ
Caribbean484 From Trinidad And Tobago, joined Jan 2007, 1841 posts, RR: 1 Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1798 times:
Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 4): The Bottomline after so many news about JM, its "new" fleet, its routes, its LHR slots and so on is JM and its owners don't have a clue WHAT kind of airline they want for the island.
They're trying to please everyone, the tourist/hotel industry, the VFR market, the businesstravelers, the Jamaican politicians who want to travel for free, the ones who want to keep the prestige LHR slots, et al.
That's not working and it costs Jamaica millions.
IMO the problem with JM is political inteferance as usual by the KIN Gov't like any other airline in the region. This new Gov't wants to put the sale of the LHR slots on hold because of the prestige of the route and not the financial impact of the airline.
We all talk about the right a/c for JM, the fact is its the route utilization of the their a/c is the problem.
FWAERJ From United States, joined Jun 2006, 821 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1798 times:
Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 7): If LHR is so special why doesn;t Air Jamaica sell its JFK slots too? They have to be worth something.
1) JFK is not slot controlled.
2) JM's US routes (including JFK, ORD, etc.) probably at least break even for three reasons: Jamaica is a popular destination among Americans, the Cuban embargo is still in place due to the Bush administration (removing a possibly huge tourism competitor), and a lot of US tour operators use JM for Jamaican flights.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 26137 posts, RR: 77 Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1798 times:
Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 5): I would love to see Air Jamaica invest in some Embraer 170 and 190.. and serve more North, Central, and South American locations.. and use Kingston and Montego Bay as both a destination and connecting point.. I think it is a good location to take people BWI-MBJ-Santiago.. MCI-MBJ-Aruba.. SAT-MBJ-Brasila.. there are so many options for them.. all it would do is shift was is MIA to MBJ
It would never work to use MBJ as a connecting hub. It doesn't have the facilities, nor the resources, and could not provide substantial enough feed.
JM017 From Jamaica, joined Jun 2002, 903 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1501 times:
Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 4): The Bottomline after so many news about JM, its "new" fleet, its routes, its LHR slots and so on is JM and its owners don't have a clue WHAT kind of airline they want for the island.
They're trying to please everyone, the tourist/hotel industry, the VFR market, the businesstravelers, the Jamaican politicians who want to travel for free, the ones who want to keep the prestige LHR slots, et al.
That's not working and it costs Jamaica millions.
Ah, yes. This is the heart of the problem.
Quoting Caribbean484 (Reply 6): IMO the problem with JM is political inteferance as usual by the KIN Gov't like any other airline in the region. This new Gov't wants to put the sale of the LHR slots on hold because of the prestige of the route and not the financial impact of the airline.
Perhaps. I believe LHR could work. Use the right aircraft (the A340s are not the right fit), improve reliability (no 9 hour delays), try to tap into premium passengers and not the low-yield types, etc. BUT, if things at the airline remain the same or if I am wrong and LHR really cannot work, then you're right: it is a money-losing route that they should jettison. Clearly they cannot resume the flights are they were being run before. That would be pointless.
"Behind every successful man is a woman, behind her is his wife." - Groucho Marx
Jm017 From Jamaica, joined Jun 2002, 903 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1501 times:
Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 4): They're trying to please everyone, the tourist/hotel industry,
Funny you should say that. I saw a special somewhere where JM was running a special through the Jamaica tourist board. My first thought was "they have learnt nothing."
By the way, can they even back out of the deal with Virgin Atlantic?
"Behind every successful man is a woman, behind her is his wife." - Groucho Marx
Captaink From Mexico, joined May 2001, 4370 posts, RR: 15 Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1501 times:
Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 8): ) JM's US routes (including JFK, ORD, etc.) probably at least break even for three reasons
Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 7): If LHR is so special why doesn;t Air Jamaica sell its JFK slots too
New York and South Florida are not principal tourist destinations for JM. It has very little to do with Americans really. They are serious O&D routes. JM not only serves Jamaica from JFK but GND UVF and BGI. And trust me these flights aren't cheap, and during specific time of the year, Christmas, Summer, they do alot more than just break even. JM has alot of good things going for them. But as is usually the case, alot of their problems are created by bad management.
Mop357 From United States, joined Mar 2007, 62 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1501 times:
Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 5): I would love to see Air Jamaica invest in some Embraer 170 and 190.. and serve more North, Central, and South American locations
That would NEVER work. When my fellow Jamaican's get their visa's and come to America they come for up to 6 months at a time. Everytime someone is coming from Jamaica we make sure we send money to bring back food and various stuff you get in Jamaica. Then when they are going back to Jamaica they also get a lot of things from the US to take back. So when these people pack, they really push the weight restiction to the limit. The Embraer's would never be able to carry that load. I think even now they have problems with the A320/21's and the weight restrictions.
Quoting JM017 (Reply 3): I think 767 flights would be great personally.
I agree. The 767 would be great for the LHR flight. Its a low capacity for the long haul flight and more fuel efficent for that route and capacity for the A342. During peak seasons they can probably add extra frequency to that flight to limit overcrowding. The only question is could the 767 carry the weight load?
Quoting JM017 (Reply 3): And their tardiness was a big issue on the LHR run. And not tardy as in 30 minutes late. Tardy as in 5 or 6 hours late. On the London route, BA would be the way to go (well from KIN anyway).
Yep. When JM is late its never a few minutes, its hours. The LHR route is a 8-9 hour flight. Who wants a 5-6 hour delay on a long haul flight. Its not like their late once in a while, but its like a constant thing. I personally hate sitting at the gate and waiting on late flights.
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9): It would never work to use MBJ as a connecting hub. It doesn't have the facilities, nor the resources, and could not provide substantial enough feed.
I have taken JM from MBJ and KIN in the same day. I never want to do it again. At MBJ, not only was all JM flights late, but the AC at MBJ was also not working. The place was a mad house with the heat and agravated people asking about their flights. Then when I connected to KIN they had fans. KIN is very small and cramped.
I know this is a little off topic, but a while back I heard about a JM flight that was either going from KIN to MBJ or (vise versa) and the crew knew they had a defective door, but they chose to fly anyway and duck tape the door. I heard the door flew open during fligh. I don't have a source, but did anyone else hear about this?
2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 5 Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1294 times:
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9): It would never work to use MBJ as a connecting hub. It doesn't have the facilities, nor the resources, and could not provide substantial enough feed.
I think that neither MBJ nor KIN have the facilities or resources yet (after some airport improvements) to be a reliable hub. Maybe I'm underestimating too much the Jamaicans, but transferring hundreds of passengers and their baggage in at least 30 minutes at those airports, would be mind-bugling at the current MBJ and KIN conditions.
IMO, a hub doesn't necessarily need substantial local feed, look at PTY and the ridiculously low O/D between PTY and MVD, COR, GRU, GIG, STI, GDL...
Bongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 1833 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1294 times:
One factor that has not been mentioned is that the UK has a sizeable number of people either Jamaican born, or of Jamaican descent. The visiting relatives traffic resulting from this must be quite significant; and JM ought to be able to get a fair part of this.
Mbj-11 From Jamaica, joined Aug 2000, 386 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 1294 times:
The airport in Montego Bay is now vastly improved and has good AC etc in all portions, especially the new terminal which reminds me of the UA concourse in ORD. JM just needs to synchronize their system to effectively run the hub. The problem I see is that when bad weather hits in the US, there is a domino effect back in Jamaica which can make life difficult for all. Another factor is that a significant factor of the crew live in or around KGN so if they are unable to be shuttled to MBJ on time, hence your delays.
On the sale of the LHR slots, many people were furious at the previous admin (scums they were.......my opinion) as they were gung-ho in selling every and anything they could see. The LHR slot was sold for less than its actual value(which was confirmed in a report) also, they could have still maintained the slot with smaller ac and reduced service ...A330-200 was banded about, but when people without a sense of business run an airline expect anything. This Minister of Transport is a no-nonsense guy when it comes to things Jamaica related. He has been criticised at times for not being cordial to investors, but his take is, what's the point in being cordial if there is no benefit for the people. Mike Henry.......fire brand
Captaink From Mexico, joined May 2001, 4370 posts, RR: 15 Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 1294 times:
Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 15): I think that neither MBJ nor KIN have the facilities or resources yet (after some airport improvements) to be a reliable hub
Montego Bay has undergone HUGE improvements. It is quite a decent airport/hub right now.
Mop357 From United States, joined Mar 2007, 62 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 1153 times:
Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 16): One factor that has not been mentioned is that the UK has a sizeable number of people either Jamaican born, or of Jamaican descent. The visiting relatives traffic resulting from this must be quite significant; and JM ought to be able to get a fair part of this.
I agree, Canada, New York area, and the England has a large Jamaican population and JM should get a large percentage of that. The on board service is good, and the food is great. But I think all I would take is a 5 to 6 hour flight delay during a holiday like Christmas with your baby or kid rasing hell to turn you away from JM and towards AA or BA.
JM017 From Jamaica, joined Jun 2002, 903 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 1051 times:
Quoting Mop357 (Reply 13): I know this is a little off topic, but a while back I heard about a JM flight that was either going from KIN to MBJ or (vise versa) and the crew knew they had a defective door, but they chose to fly anyway and duck tape the door. I heard the door flew open during fligh. I don't have a source, but did anyone else hear about this?
This is not true. JM may be tardy, and have issues with coming up with a feasible business strategy, but they take safety very seriously. This vould never have happened. And the door opening in flight would have been a serious problem indeed.
"Behind every successful man is a woman, behind her is his wife." - Groucho Marx
Captaink From Mexico, joined May 2001, 4370 posts, RR: 15 Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 1012 times:
Quoting Mop357 (Reply 13): I heard the door flew open during fligh.
Ok if you are talking a door such as the restroom/cockpit door fine. Not impossible for them to be out of service. But don't tell me they duck taped a main cabin door and it flew open during the flights. Doesn't that sounds just a little crazy to you? Don't you think it would have made news, as the airplane would have crashed...?
Mop357 From United States, joined Mar 2007, 62 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 926 times:
Quoting Captaink (Reply 21): Ok if you are talking a door such as the restroom/cockpit door fine. Not impossible for them to be out of service. But don't tell me they duck taped a main cabin door and it flew open during the flights. Doesn't that sounds just a little crazy to you? Don't you think it would have made news, as the airplane would have crashed...?
I got the news from someone in America. It was a flight going across the country. Sometimes those flights don't go over
10,000 ft. I guess it was false since no one has else have even heard of it.
Reggaebird From Jamaica, joined Nov 1999, 967 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 846 times:
Quoting Mop357 (Reply 22): I got the news from someone in America.
Was the person's last name four letters long, beginning with B and ending with H? If so, make sure that you verify the report. We've gotten some reports from that individual before about things happening in other countries that were, shall we say, "unreliable".
Captaink From Mexico, joined May 2001, 4370 posts, RR: 15 Reply 25, posted (2 years 2 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 818 times:
Quoting Mop357 (Reply 22): Sometimes those flights don't go over
10,000 ft. I guess it was false since no one has else have even heard of it.
Listen if an A320 doors blows open flight, trust me you are going to hear about it. We are not talking about a helicopter, planes fly quite fast below or above 10,000ft. Below 10,000 feet usually around 250kts if I am not mistaken. Bottom line yeah it was false, pretty darn crazy when you think about it.
26 DTWAGENT: JM is having its own problems being able to fly their North American flights. Seems like everytime we try to book a flight with them. They have overso
27 JAM747: I have heard this story before , but it was not a large plane it was a small prop. I always thought about this and wonder why JM could not have a pro
28 JM017: They used to operate the A310 from KIN/MBJ to LHR. Probably a more appropriate sized aircraft for the route. Though I am uncertain of its cargo capac
29 Captaink: Ok I was about to say.. HAHA.. Imagine an A32X's door blowing open during flight.
30 JAM747: Thanks , I did not know that the A310 had that range. I thought that they had used DC-8s a few years back but forgot that they had the A310.
31 HummingBird: The route was relaunched with the A310-300 without extra fuel tanks. This aircraft had 18J and 200Y. Due to this configuration, the aircraft made a t
32 JM017: Are you sure? According to the specs for the A310 (in the 218 seat configuration), KIN/MBJ-LHR is well within the range of the A310-300. The range of
33 HummingBird: The A310 that was used for the route was without extra fuel tank and not ETOPS certified. This meant a longer routing. At typical weight it is possib
34 JM017: Ha ha ha ha....Baggage policy. Boy that's a funny one. . Yeah. I loved flying those planes (flew them to BWI).
35 HummingBird: I eagerly awaited the release of these birds by the FAA. I clearly remember when Jamaica was upgraded to Category 1, it was announced the Friday morni
36 Bongodog1964: Surely this comes in the category of adapting to local conditions ? As much of the traffic is people visiting relatives, they are sure to be shifting
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