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787- 6 Months Late - It's Official  
User currently offlineN1786b From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 558 posts, RR: 17
Posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 27268 times:

Boeing Reschedules Initial 787 Deliveries and First Flight
- Financial impact not material to earnings - Earnings guidance unchanged for 2007 and 2008

Last Update: 11:33 AM ET Oct 10, 2007

CHICAGO, Oct 10, 2007 /PRNewswire-FirstCall via COMTEX/ -- The Boeing Company (BA:Boeing Co.
News, chart, profile, more

11:15am 10/10/2007

BA 101.27, -0.18, -0.2%) today announced a six-month delay in its planned initial deliveries of the 787 Dreamliner due to continued challenges completing assembly of the first airplanes.

Deliveries of the strong-selling Dreamliner are now slated to begin in late November or December 2008, versus an original target of May 2008. First flight is now anticipated around the end of first quarter 2008.

The company said the financial impact of the delay would not be material to earnings and that its earnings guidance for 2007 and 2008 remained unchanged.

"We are disappointed over the schedule changes that we are announcing today," said Boeing Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer Jim McNerney. "Notwithstanding the challenges that we are experiencing in bringing forward this game-changing product, we remain confident in the design of the 787, and in the fundamental innovation and technologies that underpin it."

Early last month, Boeing announced a delay in the planned first flight of the 787 citing ongoing challenges with out-of-sequence production work, including parts shortages, and remaining software and systems integration activities. The company also acknowledged increasing risk to the delivery schedule, indicating that the margin to accommodate unexpected issues had been eliminated. The newly revised schedule for first flight and first delivery addresses the production challenges and restores margin for the program to deal with issues that may be uncovered in final ground or flight testing. Boeing also said today that flight control software and systems integration activities are not pacing items in the revised schedule for first flight.

"While we have made some progress over the past several weeks completing work on our early production airplanes and improving parts availability across the production system, the pace of that progress has not been sufficient to support our previous plans for first delivery or first flight," said Scott Carson, president and CEO of Boeing Commercial Airplanes. "We deeply regret the impact these delays will have on our customers, and we are committed to working with them to minimize any disruption to their plans.

"The most important commitment we've made to our customers is to deliver an airplane that performs to their expectations over the long life of the program. These changes to our schedule will help ensure we do just that," Carson said.

The company will hold a conference call to discuss the 787 schedule changes today at 12:30 p.m. Central Time, which will be accessible at the company's website, http://www.boeing.com.
Boeing will provide its next quarterly financial performance update as planned on October 24.

293 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 1, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 27251 times:

I guess the engine manufacturers will be spitting a couple of chips as well as the expectant airlines.

Interesting contrast that the engines for both of the delayed programs have been ready on time when you think how complex they are.


User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 27250 times:

Was it the wiring ?  Smile

User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5668 posts, RR: 47
Reply 3, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 27250 times:

'Terrible. I'm so disappointed in Boeing for allowing this to happen. They better get their s**t together and make sure this doesn't happen again!


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29680 posts, RR: 84
Reply 4, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 27251 times:
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Well at least we no longer need to have 1000 threads on whether or not the 787 will be late.

And it is now official - Boeing and Airbus both suck. Big grin


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29680 posts, RR: 84
Reply 5, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 27250 times:
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Quoting Baroque (Reply 1):
Interesting contrast that the engines for both of the delayed programs have been ready on time when you think how complex they are.

The Trent 900/1000 and GEnx/GP7xxx draw a great deal more on previous models then the 787 and A380 did.  Wink


All I am hoping now is that Boeing, at worse, meets this new delay and doesn't have to announce new ones.


User currently offlinePHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 27249 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 4):

And it is now official - Boeing and Airbus both suck

So does A.net  duck 

On a more serious note, what does this delay imply for all the deliveries further down the line?


User currently offlineScrubbsYWG From Canada, joined Mar 2007, 1495 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 27249 times:

no kidding, now the squabbling can end. However, they could not have 'just' decided this. Anyone on this board that has been following this cannot believe that they 'just' realized they needed 6 months. Things were going downhill for awhile.

User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9375 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 27249 times:

I know many engineers working very long hours in Everett on the 787. It's drawing vastly on the resources of the company. Fortunately Boeing does have a large engineering force to draw off of to solve the problems associated with production. The 787 can borrow engineers from the 737 and various Integrated Defense Systems divisions so that more expertise can be used. There are many workarounds being done. Out of sequence work is very costly. Announcing a delay and a new delivery schedule will help Boeing schedule work better. Ad-hoc workarounds need to be avoided. They will always happen, but they don't help the delivery schedule at all.

Well now that it is official, at least the turmoil surrounding the stock price of Boeing might calm down. It is bad news to see a delay, and I hope things can get sorted out. Boeing is a strong company.

[Edited 2007-10-10 08:54:45]


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5668 posts, RR: 47
Reply 9, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 27250 times:

Quoting PHKLM (Reply 6):
On a more serious note, what does this delay imply for all the deliveries further down the line?

Probably pushes those deliveries out by about 5 to 6 months as well unless Boeing ramps up production really aggressively which they more than likely won't do.



That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineStarGoldLHR From Heard and McDonald Islands, joined Feb 2004, 1529 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 27249 times:

For once, I think Boeing has made the right decision.

At the original schedule the first 787 ever flight would have been AN1 from NRT to HKG, over loaded 180% to test the escape chutes on landing and diverted via Alaska and Colombia for cold and hot weather testing.

I was terrified at this rush to market with untested technology with the overriding emphasis on the belief that all will work.

This extra 6 months gives Boeing the oppourtunity to truly test the plane safely, rather than hope, scheme and dream there way into the sky.

Even if I made a paper airplane.. i'd need a few attempts to get it right.



So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
User currently offlinePHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 27251 times:

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 8):
Well now that it is official, at least the turmoil surrounding the stock price of Boeing might calm down.

Well, it's going down. Fast.
(Off course as time proceeds that statement might prove itself very untrue, I realize the nature of stock markets. However, trade volume is definitely on a long-time high.)
http://finance.google.com/finance?q=boeing

[Edited 2007-10-10 08:54:51]

User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 69
Reply 12, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 26880 times:

Quoting N1786b (Thread starter):

BA 101.27, -0.18, -0.2%) today announced a six-month delay in its planned initial deliveries of the 787 Dreamliner due to continued challenges completing assembly of the first airplanes.

Deliveries of the strong-selling Dreamliner are now slated to begin in late November or December 2008, versus an original target of May 2008. First flight is now anticipated around the end of first quarter 2008.

Well this scenario had been expected for a while. I'm glad that Boeing is now taking its time to work out all the issues so that when it is eventually delivered it will meet up and even exceed its promises.

Some points in which this delay will bring is the following,

* Chinese airlines will not receive any 787 for the Olympics.
* Qantas/Jetstar once again have to re-shcedule their fleet ( the first being the A380 delays )


Some questions also remain.

* How many frames do Boeing expect to deliver in 2008 and 2009 ?
* What are the issues that are holding up the program ?


Regards,
Wings



Aviation Is A Passion.
User currently offlineGbfra From Germany, joined Sep 2006, 448 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 26881 times:

This doesn't really come as a surprise.
As I wrote in another thread Boeing had begun preparing the market for a delay already a while ago.



The fundamental things apply as time goes by
User currently offlinePetera380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 338 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 26881 times:
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Wiring for one and rivits for the other - both rediculas!  Yeah sure

Peter


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29680 posts, RR: 84
Reply 15, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 26882 times:
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Quoting PHKLM (Reply 6):
On a more serious note, what does this delay imply for all the deliveries further down the line?

The delay will likely result in an accelerated ramp-up to "full production" in 2009, so I would imagine Boeing will be able to meet their 112(?) planes by 2009 target, if not exceed it.

NH likely won't care too much, since the JAA won't let them fly the planes outside of Asia anyway until they undergo a separate ETOPS certification program.

Not having the 787 for the Beijing Olympics will be a PR black-eye for Boeing (as it was for Airbus and China Southern's A380s), but on the plus side both companies can now expect the "status quo" in tit-for-tat orders.


User currently offlineHloutweg From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 199 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 26882 times:

 Sad What a sad moment for Boeing. I'm pretty sure they are being optimistic about the delays but will actually get the airplane flying and delivered within the time frame. I would also add, that just as we've seen with the A380 program, delays have to be initially hidden and problems belittled to buffer the impact of the news in the value of shares as we saw yesterday. I would like though, that Boeing gives further explanation of the problems that they are encountering as the 'bolt' issue is not sufficient to halt the first 787 from flying in my opinion.


In Varietate Concordia
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29680 posts, RR: 84
Reply 17, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 26885 times:
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Quoting PHKLM (Reply 12):
Well, (Boeing stock is) going down. Fast.

Yup. That three-tenths of one percent loss (18 cents) is a real bruiser!

No wait, it's up 25 cents now. What a roller-coaster! Big grin

[Edited 2007-10-10 08:56:25]

User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5668 posts, RR: 47
Reply 18, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 26882 times:

Quoting WINGS (Reply 13):
* How many frames do Boeing expect to deliver in 2008 and 2009 ?
* What are the issues that are holding up the program ?

From the sounds of it the same issues when they announced the delay in the first flight.



That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5318 posts, RR: 30
Reply 19, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 26884 times:

I'm waiting for the, "I told you so first", thread...


What the...?
User currently offlineContnlEliteCMH From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1450 posts, RR: 44
Reply 20, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 26882 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 4):
And it is now official - Boeing and Airbus both suck

Maybe, but if they're only six months late, Boeing sucks much less. And at least their problems are supply chain, arguably the riskiest part of the new program.



Christianity. Islam. Hinduism. Anthropogenic Global Warming. All are matters of faith!
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29680 posts, RR: 84
Reply 21, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 26884 times:
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Quoting ContnlEliteCMH (Reply 21):
Maybe, but if they're only six months late, Boeing sucks much less. And at least their problems are supply chain, arguably the riskiest part of the new program.



Quoting Gkirk (Reply 20):
Search the dictionary for humour.  Wink

What he said. Big grin

$10 says we reach 300 posts within the next 30 minutes.


User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 22, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 26885 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 1):
Interesting contrast that the engines for both of the delayed programs have been ready on time when you think how complex they are.

The Trent 900/1000 and GEnx/GP7xxx draw a great deal more on previous models then the 787 and A380 did.

Hmmm. Debating that might be a bit like counting angels on the head of a pin. But I wonder if some would argue that reprofiling sets of blades can be as complex as organizing a new wing.

But I take your point. Nevertheless it would be interesting to see what an engine person thinks.

I suppose the odd thing seems to be that it seems to have been relatively small parts (and you would have hoped relatively trivial parts) of each program that has proved the bottleneck. The really dramatic advances in the airframes seem to have gone off reasonably well (fingers crossed!).  bitelip   optimist 


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29680 posts, RR: 84
Reply 23, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 26885 times:
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Quoting Baroque (Reply 22):
I suppose the odd thing seems to be that it seems to have been relatively small parts (and you would have hoped relatively trivial parts) of each program that has proved the bottleneck. The really dramatic advances in the airframes seem to have gone off reasonably well...  crossfingers   bitelip   optimist 

That's what happens, I guess, when you "don't sweat the small stuff"...


User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5668 posts, RR: 47
Reply 24, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 26884 times:

Well until we hear what comes out of the conference call this afternoon it still sounds like:
1) fastener issues and the bad documentation on LN 1
2) FCS software issues.



That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
25 Post contains images PHKLM : Sorry, but what is wrong with that? There are a lot of very much respected A.net users that have been eloquently discussing the matter and many of th
26 Post contains images ContnlEliteCMH : No, of course not. Boeing should take an airplane that lacks critical fasteners, line it up on the runway, and hit the thrust levers. To heck with th
27 SirOmega : I thought that Alena and the other suppliers (except for Aloca doing the fasteners) were on time and ramping up now? LN4's shipsets are close to being
28 Pnwtraveler : OK folks don't get your internet nickers in a knot and overblow this ala CNN Breaking News happening right now as we speak. As has been said numerous
29 NYC777 : I suspect there'll be more news coming out of the conference call later today.
30 Vfw614 : Well, a not delivered airplane is a not deivered airplane is a not delivered airplane. A customer could not care less who has screwed up big time whe
31 NYC777 : Looks like a whole bunch of us owes Clickhappy an apology when he was flamed for saying that first flight won't occur until 1st quarter of 2008. Sorry
32 Post contains images SAS A340 : would the delay result in 50% discount for 787 now then right? Just kidding,most important is that,s it gonna be safe in the air! Hopefully there will
33 717-200 : I can just hear the Nelson Muntz like laugh "haw haw" coming from Toulouse
34 Post contains images SandroZRH : This is not about who sucks more and who sucks less. Both manufacturers screwed up and frankly i'm not surprised, considering todays market pressure.
35 Ikramerica : So Clickhappy's sources were correct. I want to say I'm sorry I doubted him. As for one CaptainX, that's a different story. His is about the plane bei
36 Post contains images MaverickM11 : Boeing is definitely still well ahead of the game, considering the new technology on this plane and the fact that it has, you know, orders. That said
37 Stitch : I imagine none, since it is possible Boeing is setting a "worst case scenario" with a six month delay, to avoid having to announce "rolling delays" i
38 ContnlEliteCMH : You're right: the customer only knows and cares that their airplane is not delivered. And I agree that outsourcing is no excuse. But when analyzing t
39 Post contains images NYC777 :       On both comments. Though I suspect we'll be hearing from the good Captain soon about how much the 787 sucks should be shut down and will be
40 SirOmega : Thats what I'm expecting. I was figuring its possible for Boeing to have more than 6 planes doing flight testing by July 1, 2008. If its possible to
41 ContnlEliteCMH : Since both companies are publicy traded, for-profit companies, it is clearly a matter of who sucks more and who sucks less. You may be so careless as
42 BlueSky1976 : Let's hope no more problems surface within those six months and Boeing solves all the issues ahead successfully.
43 NYC777 : This also provides a lesson for Airbus since they're following the model model with respect to the A350 and outsourcing the work to major subcontracto
44 Post contains images ER757 : I agree they had to have known this was coming, but it was just a matter of determining when to make the public announcement. So now that's done and
45 WINGS : The 787 delay issue may work towards Boeings favour. As we have witnessed with Airbus, Boeing may likely have to compensate early customers for the de
46 Worldrider : well Mr Stich, 10 min and 255 post to go, maybe the topic is not that interesting after all, i can bet the same 10rupies that the 787 will be longer
47 NYC777 : If the delay was a year or more than I would say that that could happen but since the delays is 6 months I doubt that this would occur.
48 Post contains images Ikramerica : Not a given at all. The fact they call it not material to earnings would suggest otherwise, at least in the long term. We'll know more when they hold
49 BlueSky1976 : Airbus has been following the outsourcing model since its first aircraft - the A300. Back then "Airbus" was just the name of the plane with its manuf
50 Post contains images Astuteman : To be fair, given the ambition of the programme in many ways, 6 months (to me) doesn't seem that surprising. I'll still call it a major achievement i
51 NYC777 : They are outsorucing more of the A350 production and it sounds like they were going to follow what Boeing did with the 787 in which they (Airbus) bec
52 Post contains images CygnusChicago : Yea, and looks like a bunch of folks on this board owe John Leahy an apology when they defamed him for saying the 787 could be up to 6 months late I
53 Ikramerica : To be fair, Boeing was not completely forthcoming and it disappoints us. Major achievement or not, they likely new the schedule was unworkable as the
54 Post contains images Stitch : It is true that the magnitude and length of the delay to the initial deliveries of the A380 look to be much more significant then those that appear to
55 NYC777 : Nope becasue he isn't privy to what is going on in Boeing's offices and Boeing assembly floor. He made those comments the same way he makes all the r
56 Sh0rtybr0wn : No one is really surprised by this news. A380 coming along fine with new orders now, 787 has this delay but the program is still very very strong. If
57 Post contains images Stitch : I still want to believe they thought they could make it, but now feel that the schedule is so tight that the "Law of Averages" is well and truly agai
58 Drahnreb : When first flight take place in end of March 2008, how will they make the cold weather tests?
59 Post contains images Stitch : Send her to McMurdo.
60 Post contains images Ikramerica : I support NYC777's assertion that JL is a jerk. Because he is.
61 Atnight : One thing that I am surprised is that the first flight is now schedule for the end of first quarter 2008, that means that we won't see the 787 flying
62 Ikramerica : ASAP. It's still quite cold in the arctic circle in April.
63 NYC777 : Well they can send it to Alaska but I think the USAF also has a cold weather hanger to test aircraft in extreme cold temperatures. I think they'll fi
64 ContnlEliteCMH : LOL! I can see your point! How long was Astute delayed?
65 Ikramerica : I would expect all the birds to be ready to fly by then, which would be a change. Also, expect quite a bit of ground testing to have taken place by f
66 CygnusChicago : Unfortunately, I think things won't go smoothly for Airbus with a delay on the A350. Airbus has already used their "Get out of jail, pay a little com
67 Hloutweg : I specifically refer to the first not all of them. If they wanted to have the 787 flying they could because there are enough fasteners for the first
68 Post contains images FAEDC3 : It makes you wonder.... why is that Boeing has to announce this "fashionably late" after Q3 has closed? they knew this right? some of the shareholder
69 NYC777 : I would apologize to Clickhappy becaseu he had information right from the horse's mouth whereas John Leahy was just jumping on the "787 is going to b
70 Post contains links Drahnreb : I think we will get more information on the conference call of Boeing: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....entDetails&c=85482&eventID=1667937 The B
71 NYC777 : Can someone take down notes from the conference call and post them here? That would help the discussion greatly!
72 Aither : So what's the total delay if we add this 6 month delay ?
73 Gbfra : Honestly, it's sad to see how one of the most respected members on this forum is about to ridicule himself. No mysterious "Law of Averages" was again
74 Sh0rtybr0wn : I dont think a 2 YEAR delay will go smoothly for Airbus, but if in 2011, Airbus says were extending out deliveries for 6 months because of bla bla bl
75 Danny : This should raise serious questions why something that was known quite a while ago was only announced today. I am afraid that Boeing is falling into
76 Columba : What a great argument, sorry this can only happen on a.net argumenting who sucked more A or B . Just for the record Airbus postponed the A380 several
77 BlueSky1976 : Unless stated otherwise, 6 months is the total figure, as Boeing always said that their goal is to maintain the first delivery date at May 2008 goal.
78 747400sp : Then what left.
79 Curiousflyer : 6 months late, and the first flight has not occured yet! For the A380, most of the delays were announced after the first flight, so my bet is a total
80 Hloutweg : We know well that those two (B vs A) cases can't be compared. The issues of the A380 became enormous as the great parts of the wiring design had to b
81 Iloveboeing : Oh no! This is awful! I really wish the suppliers had actually done their jobs and put permanent fasteners in the first 787. Then Boeing wouldn't be i
82 CaptainX : Well well well. The old Cpt was SPOT ON. And keep it mind , the PR did not say the delay would be 6 months, it said AT LEAST 6 MONTHS.
83 Post contains images Bmacleod : Compared to what Airbus went through with the A380, this is a small speed bump. Airbus had to shut down development of the A380F after additional dela
84 NYC777 : There won't be any..not for a 6 month delay. Longer than a year...that's another story.
85 SirOmega : Read the first post. No it didnt. You have a reading comprehension problem. The words "at least" didn't appear anywhere in the PR as quoted in the OP
86 Gaut : Please guys, would it be possible to leave Airbus out of this topic!! To be honest, a 6 month delay is not that dramatic for such a program... Bu what
87 Nycbjr : Unless I'm missing something I don't see an "At Least" anywhere in the press release.....
88 SEPilot : Well, as one of the members of the Boeing fan club I'll accept my share of egg on my face for believing the official pronouncements that the first del
89 NYC777 : From the press release: "BA 101.27, -0.18, -0.2%) today announced a six-month delay in its planned initial deliveries of the 787 Dreamliner due to con
90 ER757 : Hmmmm - I just read it again and I never saw the words "at least" in there. What were you looking at?
91 StressGuy : I am very dissapointed in with Boeing. This damages their reputation all over the world. I think that it is hardly a coincidence that this occured on
92 Max999 : In my opinion, both companies' management lied to their customers and shareholders. What's really sad in this case is Boeing did not learn from Airbu
93 Aither : But am I correct saying it is a delay on top of the current delay ? so that would make one year delay if I'm correct ?
94 NYC777 : Wrong. Original EIS is May 2008, new EIS is November 2008 to December 2008 that is a 6 to 7 month delay not one year.
95 ER757 : No - the May 2008 EIS was the original target, they are now saying Dec 2008
96 Post contains images Norcal773 : A real shame. Where's Zeke and slz396 when you need them?
97 Mach3 : Boeing can turn this announcement in their favour! Rather then rush into a program like AB did on the 380 and getting it in the air to inflate their E
98 Kl911 : I feel sad for Boeing, but in the summer I already told this. I started a thread about it, and NOBODY believed it.... My source was and is very credib
99 Post contains images Astuteman : 3 years!!!!! (Some on here like to believe it was 4 years, but they're wrong......... ) FWIW in my humble opinion, the place it damages Boeing's repu
100 Post contains links and images Filton : See thread from almost a year ago: RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA (by Filton Nov 1 2006 in Civil Aviation) Told you so !
101 Post contains images WINGS : Well obviously we do not share the same views regarding this matter, but its always enjoyable to exchange point of views with you. Airbus have recent
102 Brendows : The original goal was 112 planes delivered in 2008 and 2009 combined. I'm having a hard time believing that they could deliver that many aircraft by
103 Post contains images Revelation : Certainly wiring was a risk for the A380: the plane's probably 50% larger in volume than the largest plane they've ever done before. The risk was ide
104 Gbfra : So, are you telling us the A380 is not safe????? Any evidence? Again, I can't imagine that this delay will be beneficial for Boeing but the damage sh
105 Post contains images Columba : Don´t forget the A380 being too quite for passengers So are you saying the A380 is unsafe ?? Btw the strongest planes are build by Douglas not Boein
106 Scbriml : The criticism they've laid themselves open to is that only three days ago they were still saying "on time". They can't have gone from "on time" to "s
107 Post contains images FAEDC3 : You are funny...
108 Post contains images SEPilot : I strongly suspect that Boeing has been privately telling the customers much more than they are saying publicly; even while maintaining that the deli
109 ClassicLover : No coincidence that Randy Tinseth just happens to be in Australia right now, is it? I imagine, apart from the smokescreen of announcing the new demand
110 Post contains images PlaneHunter : Based on which FACTS...? ...which is as accurate as saying McBurger fries "are stronger last longer and taste better" than KingDonald's fries. PH
111 Kaneporta1 : I think this proves John Leahy is a more reliable source of information than most people give him credit. At least now Boeing engineers have time to
112 Adam T. : Wow, this is news......I to worried that the 787 was being too rushed and i'm glad that the Boeing team will take time to make sure the 787 is a hard
113 Avek00 : My personal feeling is that the customers have been "prepped" for a delay of up to one year -- this isn't a big deal so long as Boeing is candid and g
114 ContnlEliteCMH : I can tell who of you have ever done large project work, and who haven't. That some of you think the discussion about "who sucks more" is irrelevant
115 Post contains images 797charter : Some good point, - let's hope the best...
116 ContnlEliteCMH : Absurd. You say they can't be compared and then draw implicit comparisons based on cause! Of COURSE they can be compared. You can project comparisons
117 Post contains images Pygmalion : Q3 report is Oct 26th.... so they did not wait but announced as soon as they decided they would after all be late Big a$$
118 FAEDC3 : I will say it again: Nobody is paying any attention to the fact that Boeing announced this just after Q3 ended... thus the financial impact, and the d
119 Post contains images FAEDC3 : Q3 report is due Oct 26, but the reporting period is July 1st thru Sept. 30th....
120 Post contains images CygnusChicago : Ah well, not one to let the facts get in your way, are you? This will be the true test. The financial impact of the delay for EIS is somewhat limited
121 PHKLM : Sound very likely and reasonable. Ehrm, you sure must know it would be devastating to let something slip about "possible delays" without making any f
122 Slz396 : Well, I don't know about Zeke, but I here I am. First of all I'd like to congratulate Boeing on finally coming out of the closet! It's an extremely e
123 FlyingAY : If that was true, why didn't they "prep" their shareholders for a delay? Aren't the US laws pretty strict about this? I really can't see this harming
124 Pygmalion : Boeing said today: So what should be included if they announced Sept 29th?
125 NYC777 : The long and short of the reasons for the delays: travelled work and lack of parts availability. FCS is no longer the driving factor for the delay. Pe
126 Slz396 : Of course the delays will have no impact on earnings in 2007 and only a very small one in 2008! The impact right now will consist of: -) additional e
127 Post contains images Iwok : For those of you who predicted this and got flamed, I admire your lack of "I told you so" statements. Definitely a blow, but with such a backlog I dou
128 Iwok : I wonder if we'll see a dramatic slowdown in orders until the airlines are convinced that the production issues are solved. That could be a big confid
129 Columba : I agree with you on the fact that this is juvenile discussion but I don´t think you got the meaning of my post right, I think first it is too early
130 Kl911 : Hmmmmm..........
131 Leskova : This must be the first time since the beginning of time that anyone's accused Airbus of rushing into the A380... very funny remarks, I must say - but
132 Slz396 : Well, I am sure the most notorious person who has predicted the delay correctly, will definitely make good use of it in his numerous press briefings
133 Prebennorholm : I think that the timing of this message was very cleverly selected by Boeing. All the world aviation press is gearing up for next week when Airbus wil
134 RedFlyer : Shareholder lawsuits will follow only if the shareholders are somehow damaged, which would mean the value of the stock would have to tank. That hasn'
135 Kaneporta1 : On the contrary, at the A350 HQ they will be looking at what caused the delay and try to make sure they deal with the (pretty much same) issues well
136 SunriseValley : All sorts of A.Net spin on this matter. How many of you listened to the analyst and press "scrum" Hands up !! Bet no more than ten of you. I heard the
137 Lorgem1 : I still don't believe that the 'fasteners' are the major issue. As I mentioned earlier, Boeing took steps to overcome the potential deficiencies from
138 CygnusChicago : I doubt it. Airbus knew about this delay 8 months ago. Gee, talk about being melodramatic! The 787 is far, far, from being in deep trouble. Don't tel
139 FAEDC3 : Earnings might not me influenced directly, I agree. But my post is not referencing earnings or even Q3 revenue. I am trying to point that a company t
140 Prebennorholm : There is not one single major investor who believed in the September message, first flight December and EIS May. The BA stock rate had already gradua
141 Post contains images Sbworcs : I was wondering too!!! Spot on about what exactly? The delay, the fact that is a flying deathtrap, the fact the the FAA are in bed with boeing to cer
142 Nycbjr : Here's an interesting "what if".. what if Boeing didn't rush to present the 787 by 7/8/07, would the program have faced the 6 month delay anyways? I'd
143 SirOmega : Yeah! The last analyst question asked if DL2 could be the first to fly or if it would be DL1. DL1 will still be the first to fly, but it'll be close t
144 Post contains images FAEDC3 :
145 Stitch : I imagine, yes. I'm listening to the archive of the conference call now and, in direct contradiction of Captain X's assertions that the plane is fund
146 Texfly101 : Probably as close as this forum will get to what actually happened
147 Post contains images Rheinbote : How do you know?
148 Flying_727 : Can't get into why, but the situation would not be different if the rollout would have not been on 7/8/07. Flying_727
149 R2rho : Did they learn nothing from Airbus??? The deadlines they set themselves were far too ambitious for such a new airplane. Certification after 6 months o
150 Avek00 : From my experience doing securities litigation work two summer ago, I can tell you that the US disclosure laws actually make it HARDER to have very c
151 Post contains images CygnusChicago : Because they said as much at a major aviation conference Some here shot the messenger, but that didn't change the facts.
152 Post contains images ER757 : That sounds about right to me. I think it's unimaginable that NW, ANA, QF and other early customers weren't briefed before the press release. Yeah, i
153 NYC777 : Synopsis of Boeing's conference call: 1) 6 month delay from original target of May 2008 (to late November-December 2008. 2) First flight late 1st quar
154 Stitch : I just finished the call and NYC777 has summed it up succinctly. Thanks!
155 SirOmega : That removes a substantial amount of risk from the flight test, right? Instead of debugging flight test software and the aircraft itself, you're just
156 StarGoldLHR : I dont believe this for just one minute. No software ever works first time... After the first flight expect the bugs and revisions to come to light.
157 Stitch : "Service ready" likely means it's good enough to use in testing, which will identify additional bugs. I don't believe Boeing was implying that the so
158 Beta : I'd like to raise one question that no one has asked: "Does Scott Carson need to go?" I'd say yes. This is arguably one of the most important project
159 SparkingWave : [quote=R2rho,reply=149]Did they learn nothing from Airbus??? Yes, Boeing did Iearn something from Airbus - that they can delay a new plane introductio
160 Post contains images ER757 : Is your name George Steinbrenner ? Seriously - that's an interesting question. Not sure he deserves to be put out to pasture, but maybe his bonus thi
161 Lumberton : Those pesky unknown-unknowns will do it to you every time! Which will represent a huge chunk of change sitting idle on the tarmac.
162 Planemaker : NYC reported that the "Software would be service (EIS) ready by first flight"... ie, ready for delivery and EIS. So one of you is correct. I would go
163 XT6Wagon : Boeing, intentional or not has had massive amounts of information on the progress of the program available publicly since before the 787 began final
164 Stitch : I'd say no. Six months is bad, but it could have been far, far worse if not for the measure Mr. Carson did take to try and address it. Boeing knew th
165 Kaneporta1 : I never implied that Boeing engineers are cutting corners, what I meant to say was that if the pre-first flight preparation and flight test program w
166 CygnusChicago : Suppliers told Leahy they received specifications from Boeing 8 months late, and would not be able to fully catch up. Nothing illegal about talking t
167 Beta : Stitch, so you buy into the "it could be worse" argument to keep Mr Carson? Fair enough! But I don't. Two to three-month slip is forgivable
168 CygnusChicago : I really don't think 6 months is bad, especially when you are being highly innovative and trying to do so on a very tight schedule. Given how far out
169 XT6Wagon : Did they? And you don't think thats illegal? If I work for a GM supplier, I'm free and clear to run down to Ford and go "hey Mr. Ford, might like to
170 Stitch : I've been following the 787 program closely since it was the 7E7 program, thanks in part to being part of the Sonic Cruiser program. I understand the
171 Carls : So, Home Depot and Lowes gets more time to find more fasteners.....I could not resist. Seriously, many of us saw this coming, but this only confirm w
172 GQ : A delay was predictable, as with most time sensitive deliverables in this world it is more surprising if it is ready on time. I closed on my new condo
173 NYC777 : They never said they will deliver 40 planes in December. They will be built by first delivery but not delivered. The airlines won't pay until they've
174 NYC777 : If you think that John Leahy is an innocent little messenger being flamed for no good reason then you're quite naive. He makes those statements becau
175 Prebennorholm : Nobody can blame Mr. Leahy for telling the world what he knows, has been told, or thinks. Maybe someone at a common A/B subcontractor told Leahy some
176 Post contains images Carls : McGiver will take care of that.
177 ER757 : I think there is a lesson here for all the over-the-top cheerleaders on both sides of the fence. That lesson is that things change quickly in this ind
178 Tom12 : Disapointing. I hope this is the only delay to be announced. Thom
179 Post contains images Beta : I'm not saying there is a failure of efforts. Clearly everyone at BCA is trying their hardest. But there is a failure of visionar
180 Seafleet : I have to say that both Boeing and Airbus have got it right IMO. Both programs have glitches and because peoples lives could depend on a correct solut
181 Stitch : In my opinion, Boeing has been quite frank with the public and the customers. Yes, they continued to say they could meet the goals, but they also sai
182 EbbUK : Well they will never be able to have that said about them again. Make planes not haste. That is my new quote to Boeing. In fact they are doing that.
183 WCS : I don’t want to throw oil on the fire, but you are guys quite funny. When it’s time to eat your hat, just a few of you show up. Some weeks ago, ev
184 WarRI1 : These machines are not like autos, you do not step out and look under the hood, I would say caution is the better policy and because people all over t
185 Pellegrine : So, BA is off 2 and change at close, but up a few dimes in after-hours. I wasn't really expecting something like 6-months, more like 3, but their stoc
186 Post contains images Baroque : Looks as if both manufacturers have now blunk, or been geblunkt perhaps. C'mon Scbriml, you know that MM (much maligned) Leahy can speak no truth. Fi
187 Ckfred : What would be interesting to know is how this delay, both in first flight and first deliveries, compares to Boeing's other jets, particularly the 747,
188 Firennice : It happens. I have said all this for months, engineers at suppliers (Vought, Spirit, Alenia, Global) have been telling us it is just not possible to h
189 CygnusChicago : So, basically you're saying they're going to have 40 frames worth of WIP sitting around? Well, that's not going to look good on the cash flow stateme
190 Post contains images ScrubbsYWG : The real thing that sucks for us enthusiasts is we have to wait longer to see this baby fly! We were so close, and now its another 6 months or so I wa
191 Sxf24 : Boeing uses program accounting, which spreads the costs over the life of the program and reduces swings in earnings based on delivery schedules.
192 Post contains images WingedMigrator : Here are the new dates compared to the 777 (and the original 787 schedule), covering milestones between the first power-on and EIS. The A380 is includ
193 Post contains images Ikramerica : Uhm, the forums are broken, many people can't even login or see active threads, and some have actually given up and left a.net because of the mess. M
194 WingedMigrator : I estimated them, as stated just above the chart. March 31st is a pessimistic interpretation of "late 1Q08", but then I had all four RR frames flying
195 Post contains images Astuteman : I seem to recall having a semantic argument on an earlier thread about "likelihood", as expressed in a risk analysis . Most programme manager would l
196 Chiad : Sound expensive! 800 planes 6 months delayed (the first official delay)! In a way the B7L87 already much "worse" off than the A3L80.
197 InbarD : I am not surprised about hearing this. I always knew there was going to be some delay, probably a compounding delay too.
198 Post contains links and images Scbriml : Do you actually believe what you write? In talking to suppliers, he hears of issues that are likely to cause a delay for the 787, and you want to cha
199 Slz396 : Well, I distinctly remember another all new plane that immediately got stitched the label of 'entroubled aircraft' on it, as was its manufacturer as
200 Dallasnewark : These must be high times for you and Keesje. Whatever happend to taking the high road, just couldn't resist this one time?
201 Post contains links and images Scbriml : I just realised I missed a better quote from the article I pointed you at in reply #199. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...aerospace/2003615147_
202 Post contains links Danny : Some interesting points being brought up by Scot Hamilton on leeham.net "First flight won’t happen until the end of the first quarter (maybe) and de
203 Post contains images Sebolino : LOL For sure, if some a.netters react the same way they did with the A380 delays, it will become ugly. But I'm confident they will stay much more sil
204 Post contains images Worldrider : sex??? to me it looks more like little business jet, a flying fish..ahhh in plastic!!! errrkk! just personal feeling. the A380 is the beeaaast !!!
205 Slz396 : No worries, there is a certain very vocal CEO of a large Middle Eastern airline with some pretty ambitious expansion plans too who has the 787 on ord
206 Sebolino : I clearly remember some people here stating that if the 787 was delayed and if people at Boeing knew it and didn't say it, they would face prosecution
207 Post contains images LXA340 : Who knows as we saw with Airbus once the first problems arise it was just the begining so I wouldn't be supprosed to see the first delivery 1 year beh
208 Glideslope : Reactions will be based on Boeing's credibility. Not the ad-nauuem defence of Airbus during the 380 issues. If Boeing intentionally knew things and w
209 Post contains images Norcal773 : Entroubled??? Gee Slz396, put the guns back in the closet, not so fast. I love the way you're always so quick to lash at Boeing in almost EVERY post
210 Post contains links Flying-Tiger : http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...-for-boeing-to-meet-northwest.html There is an interesting post in the orders group which suggests that certif
211 LXA340 : I realy wouldn't be suprised if Boeing witheld information regarding the delay. Just like with Airbus the development of a new plane etc it takes time
212 PHKLM : Trains undergo cold-weather testing in large climate chambers, do these climate chambers exist for airliners? I can't see why the test cannot be done
213 Danny : Agree. That was my point about Boeing falling in the same traps that Airbus did with A380. Rather than carefully rethink how much time realistically
214 Post contains images CF188A : To those right wing Boeing lovers in here, Seems like Boeing is no longer "perfect" anymore! This is beginning like a A380 nightmare, oHHHHHHH what ar
215 Post contains images Sebolino : You're right. Considering it's Boeing, it's a "simple" severe little mistake.
216 Post contains links and images GBan : I cannot see "at least" either - in the press release. But we have it again in the FlightGlobal article: http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...-for-
217 Post contains images Haggis79 : well, I can't think of them not being required to perform a take off as well as a landing under extreme conditions.... that's what airliners are made
218 AA1818 : The real saving grace for Boeing would be to have the 787 outperform its expectations, but with problems like this in assembly, it seems the best they
219 Brendows : I reacted a bit when I read that post too, I found that estimate to be a little pessimistic, considering that the 77L wasn't used very intensively fo
220 Scbriml : Both Reuters and CNBC also used the phrase "at least six months". However, it doesn't appear in Boeing official PR.
221 Jonathan-l : Boeing has quoted that the delivery will occur in November or December (as opposed to May). So from May to November is 6 months and from May to Decem
222 CygnusChicago : Well, they can test in the southern hemisphere. What level of cold do they require? I'd guess New Zealand South Island would work. If you need to go
223 Texfly101 : Yes, despite everything that the conspiracy theory advocates love to speculate about, all of the announcements and status updates were done in strict
224 Teme82 : I heard rumor that QF is wanting some compensation for the delay. Now if all 787 customers would follow QF then Boeing would be in big trouble right?
225 Danny : It depends how quickly they can ramp up production after (or even before) EIS and how many frames are delivered late. Also usually not any delay resu
226 Post contains images SSTsomeday : I'll be interested to see if the delivery schedule is also greatly abbreviated for the first few years of production after the first delivery. And le
227 ScrubbsYWG : well, engineers tend to be enamoured by things other people find mundane. Have you looked at pictures of the trailing edge? the wing is very cool loo
228 MD11Engineer : I think it is the old problem again of engineers versus marketing people. I know that if I have to give an estimate for time needed for a job I'm extr
229 Art : An optimist if ever I heard one! Unimaginable on a.net. I wonder if Boeing has built any float into their 6-7 month delay announcement for unforeseea
230 Slz396 : Word has it there are no airports suitable for a large commercial airliner like the 787 in the extremely cold regions of the Southern hemisphere! We
231 NYC777 : You couldn't have possibly written this with a straight face. You mean to tell me that there won't be a place on this Earth where the 787 can land in
232 Slz396 : I don't know, but leeham does seem to think so, now you tell me: what airport has sustained negative temperatures of 30°C and below in the Southern
233 WINGS : Where exactly would these tests be carried out? Which airfield? Please do enlighten me. You may not like what Slz396 wrote, but the reality is that h
234 PHKLM : By no means. Even in winter you would find those temperatures only at night and high up in the mountains. The Southernmost airport in the world that
235 PHKLM : Sorry but with this arrogant and ignorant statement you make a complete fool out of yourself. I wonder why you have an RR of 13 when posting such utt
236 Danny : NYC777 - please point out a suitable airport that has temperatures of -30C and lower in June, July or August.
237 Boo25 : No huge surprise here then.... For an airliner that was rolled out and then dismantled, it's maybe obvious that the marketing push came a little early
238 Stitch : We will likely see a bunch more 777 orders coming in, as Boeing just cuts folks great deals as Airbus did with the A330 to appease A380 customers. As
239 Post contains links PHKLM : I hope this would be a possibility for Boeing. Therefore I was asking, can it be done inside? Or does it have to perform "real" operations like take-
240 Post contains images OHLHD : As I said before. Rather delayed then unsafe. I expected the delay somehow but I am sure ( like Airbus) that they sort this out.
241 Socalfive : Oh please, there is hardly a single time that Boeing, Airbus, MD, or even Lockheed hasn't experienced delays in rolling out new technologies. I said
242 Post contains links Revelation : Slz396 plays the exaggeration card. I'll think it's in deep trouble when BA has to restate earnings. Till then, this is an unfortunate bump in the ro
243 LHRBlueSkies : Well, all I can say is Ha Ha, Simpsons style! 2 great companies, brought down to earth.....now, less bragging and more building!
244 Stitch : Yup. Both have now been hung on their own Petards and now, properly chastised, can focus on getting things done.
245 Post contains links and images NADC10Fan : " target=_blank>http://www.alaskaaerofuel.com/cwt.html It may indeed be possible. Found the following from SAE International (www.sae.org): The entire
246 Slz396 : Yep, but sadly for Boeing, there is only water or desolated land at those latitudes where it is sufficiently cold then. That's why even Embraer does
247 Post contains links Slz396 : Quoting NADC10Fan (Reply 246): Food for thought, gentlemen! Indeed. Wonder is some actual flying needs to be done, in which case they'll need some fac
248 PHKLM : Well, ascending to FLT 400 will make it pretty cold, wouldn't it? I don't believe flying is part of the cold weather tests. I think it is merely airp
249 VS11 : Assuming that this is the only and final "bump in the road" for 787. I would expect that this is just the beginning of bad news for 787 EIS.
250 Astuteman : What am I missing, FlyingTiger? Certification in November/December 2008, and 109 deliveries in 2008? Doesn't sound right somehow. Should that be 109
251 Ikramerica : Yes. It's a typo. 109 deliveries through 2009, vs. 112.
252 Slz396 : I am not sure. You can definitely test all the systems and the engines in a cold soaked hangar should such a facility exist (otherwise, I reckon it w
253 Post contains images Astuteman : Thanks Regards
254 Ikramerica : Isn't the cold weather testing done to test if seals maintain integrity, if the plane can start up again after sitting in cold weather, etc.? Basicall
255 Post contains images Baroque : I thought the test was to allow the whole structure and the engines to cool down - which you cannot exactly do at FL400 unless you can find a suitabl
256 Scbriml : There must be a simple reason why no commercial aircraft has been certificated using such an indoor facility. But only just. Overnight lows are not e
257 Stitch : I am hoping it is cost. It's a lot cheaper to rent a runway and tarmac in the Canadian Arctic vs. bringing an aircraft hangar down to similar tempera
258 Glideslope : Yes, there could be severe consequences as Boeing would need to find the additional revenue from within current programs. Although their cash reserve
259 Stitch : They're pushing some 400 planes a year out the door. If that number can fund both the A380 and A350 for Airbus, it can darn well fund the 787 for Boe
260 Ikramerica : I remember the A380 had to sit for a few days because it was unseasonably warm. They were about to fly home when a cold spell arrived. I would assume
261 Post contains images WAH64D : New Zealand is not far enough south. Not cold enough at the locations with suitable airfields. It can't be done indoors. The cold soak test requires
262 Post contains images Glideslope : Thought we were funding the 787, 777F, 748i and 748F, and thinking about the 787-10 plus Y1 and Y3? I have no doubt it will get done. I just worry ab
263 Ikramerica : That is factually inaccurate. It is -25C, not -30C. That -5C makes a big, big difference in finding suitable locations and timings. The arctic circle
264 Stitch : At least Boeing, like Airbus with the A380, has a plane that has no competition, so initial deliveries will be safe. But it will force Boeing to open
265 Scbriml : I would have thought a second line is absolutely the last thing on Boeing's mind right now. A second line also sounds like an exposure in the event o
266 WAH64D : I was 99% sure it was -30. It was covered in detail on the "Building the worlds biggest airliner" documentary about the A380. They were close to the
267 SunriseValley : Interesting that he was not part of the contingent answering the questions from the "scrum". He was last time! If McInerney is a true disciple of Jac
268 Airbusted : All major engineering efforts run into delays and Boeing or Aibus are not immune. We had all new trains for sydney that the first of which was due in
269 StoutAirLines : You just did make a nasty joke and it was typical for you. Sad. Better luck next time. It already is ugly thanks to the usual Airbus supporters. See
270 Scbriml : European sources like MSNBC, Chicago Tribune, Aviation International News, International Herald Tribune? The list goes on... Strictly speaking, those
271 StoutAirLines : Nice try, but wrong yet again. The US sources you listed simply carried (copied) the news item originating from Europe that distorted what Boeing act
272 Stitch : Shifting production later by introducing the 787HGW would probably be the best way to make lemonade out of this current lemon... I can't see how Boei
273 Post contains images WingedMigrator : Imagine the 787 schedule as a rug. (no, really, bear with me here! ) In September, Boeing admitted that there was a bump in the rug (schedule compres
274 Post contains links and images NAV20 : Huh! Finally managed to log on, the site seems to go in fits and starts lately. Certainly one in the eye for Boeing supporters. An apology to Clickhap
275 Post contains links Baroque : The -30 might have come from somthing like this: http://www.asiatraveltips.com/news06/142-AirbusA380.shtml "MSN004, the second A380 to fly aircraft,
276 Post contains links Baroque : I posted this a few minutes ago, but just when I thought a.net was working the post disappeared. Your -30 might have come from something like this WA
277 Post contains links and images Scbriml : Written by their own journos? Yep, it's all part of a European conspiracy to discredit Boeing. We're all in on it. You mean this one: http://www.boei
278 Post contains links Baroque : I posted this a few minutes ago, but just when I thought a.net was working the post disappeared. Your -30 might have come from something like this WA
279 Post contains links Baroque : I posted this a few minutes ago, but just when I thought a.net was working the post disappeared. Your -30 might have come from something like this WA
280 Jonathan-l : This is referring to "at least 6 months late" Boeing quotes delivery of the first aircraft in November or December (as opposed to May). May to Novemb
281 Jonathan-l : This is referring to "at least 6 months" Boeing quoted that they would deliver in Nov or Dec (as opposed to May). May to Nov = 6 months May to Dec =
282 Chiad : Wow. Stich ... how do you know all these things? You must either be a regular or an employee at Boeing, no? I would love to expereince the Boeing pla
283 Chiad : Wow. Stich ... how do you know all these things? You must either be a regular or an employee at Boeing, no? I would love to expereince the Boeing pla
284 Joni : I agree, 6 months isn't that bad compared to certain other recent programs. One thing I'm interested in is how much the B787 is over budget, as rushi
285 Joni : I agree, 6 months isn't that bad compared to certain other recent programs. One thing I'm interested in is how much the B787 is over budget, as rushi
286 Post contains images Glideslope : Excellent point.
287 NADC10Fan : Um ... with respect, but did you read the article I provided? The facility mentioned is capable of exceeding the conditions you mentioned and by a co
288 Stitch : I did work for Boeing back in 2001, however my current job takes me past the Boeing plant a few times a day and I keep an eye on movements for some f
289 Joni : I don't think a 6 month delay is the end of the world, especially compared to another recent product that was much longer delayed. What I'd be interes
290 Stitch : Easily. Compared to an 18-month EIS delay? Absolutely.
291 Post contains images Swallow : Yep. The proof of the pudding is in the production ramp-up. First flight and certification just indicate that mama got the recipe right
292 Post contains links SunriseValley : A link to another "take" on the topic. http://www.designnews.com/blog/130000213/post/960015696.html Fair use ... the absence of 787 VP and GM Mike Bai
293 Post contains links ANCFlyer : Continue here please: 787- 6 Months Late - It's Official Part 2 (by ANCFlyer Oct 12 2007 in Civil Aviation)
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