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Why Only NWA In Manila?  
User currently offlineScumbag From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6212 times:

Looks like NWA is the ONLY United States Airline going to Manila. And every flight I've been on has been packed. UAL goes all over Asia and I wonder why not to MNL? Some compitition would be good here.

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePhoenixflyer From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 81 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6199 times:

CO serves Manila albeit through their CO Micronesia devision.

User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6185 times:

Quoting Scumbag (Thread starter):
Looks like NWA is the ONLY United States Airline going to Manila. And every flight I've been on has been packed. UAL goes all over Asia and I wonder why not to MNL? Some compitition would be good here.

I've wondered that myself. The only reason I could come up with is that either the market is low-yielding, or that UA, being very tight for long-haul aircraft, simply can't squeeze in a tag-on to any of their flights to go to MNL.

Does the US have fifth-freedom with Taiwan? If so they could extend their SFO-TPE to MNL... else I believe they have a planes that go to HKG that could continue on (they have ORD-HKG-SIN and SFO-HKG-SGN (744) but I don't believe LAX-HKG continues anywhere, and for a while at least they had an additional 772ER flight doing SFO-HKG, thought I don't think it was daily, but it didn't seem to extend on to anywhere either.



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7537 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6178 times:

NW has been serving Manila forever, I believe UA tried the market for quite a while and got crushed on it. CO Mike is an odd part because some don't consider it a US carrier, why I don't really know.


"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineMalaysia From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 3342 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6162 times:

Did UA previously acquire the Pan Am MNL flight when it got the Pacific Routes, then shortly pull out?


There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32694 posts, RR: 72
Reply 5, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6162 times:

Not only does Continental Airlines fly to Manila, but, starting next year, Hawaiian Airlines will too.


a.
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 6065 times:

Manila and the Philippines in general is not as high-yield as the rest of Asia. The majority of passengers are are VFR, and Philippine Airlines has a good lock on the market for most travellers. NW has served MNL since even before World War II, I believe - and they do make a good deal of money flying through their NRT hub.

China is the high-yielding destination in Asia at this point. Aside from UA and NW's services to Asia, U.S. airlines may have a flight to Tokyo, but other than the fights over Beijing or Shanghai rights, I doubt you'll see anyone expand into the Philippines, with the exception of Hawaiian. Their 763's might be able to turn a profit.

By the way, is there any word on the opening of the new international terminal at MNL? I know that it seems to have been "cleared up", but until pax start getting processed through there, I won't hold my breath.



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineSCUMBAG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 6065 times:

Hawaiian to MNL? G R E A T ! what kind of equipment and from what location?

User currently offlineSimairlinenet From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 912 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 6060 times:

Quoting Malaysia (Reply 4):
Did UA previously acquire the Pan Am MNL flight when it got the Pacific Routes, then shortly pull out?

Yes, but they kept serving it for several years thereafter. I remember flying SFO-SEL in the late '80s/early '90s, and the flight continued onwards to MNL.


User currently offlineB742 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 3767 posts, RR: 19
Reply 9, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 6038 times:

Quoting SCUMBAG (Reply 7):
Hawaiian to MNL? G R E A T ! what kind of equipment and from what location?

From HNL and with the 763s.

Rob!  wave 


User currently offlineSCUMBAG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 5964 times:

I spoke to a friend who just retired from the government in Manila, he said the situation at the phantom terminal was a Marcos style cash grab by the upper crust in office, and the buck is still being passed. Some Chinese billionaire named Lim offered 20% of the original cost of construction (no interest) to the European backers of this massive monument to backstabbing, and they laughed at his offer, it has caused the assassination of one judge, as well as the ruin of several contractors. Now the roof is falling in, and most of the baggage delivery equipment has vanished! I call it the Hawllowen terminal

User currently offlineUnitedTristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5894 times:

If you look at the fares published to MNL they are unbelievable CHEAP. How NW makes money (if they do) beyond me. Look at several things for UA not going to MNL.

First the most logical routing for UA would be over HKG or NRT, below are round trip business class fares I pulled from United.com:

ORD to HKG
Traveler
Adult 1

Base fare
USD $15,832.00

Taxes & fees*
USD $320.17

Total
USD $16,152.17

ORD to NRT
Traveler
Adult 1

Base fare
USD $8,909.00

Taxes & fees*
USD $288.10

Total
USD $9,197.10

ORD to MNL
Traveler
Adult 1

Base fare
USD $5,505.00

Taxes & fees*
USD $323.70

Total
USD $5,828.70


Why would UA wish to fill their seats to Asia with MNL people when they can fill them with NRT and HKG people at a much higher margin? I say let them go on NW.

Second consider that UA is going from a 73 seat C seats on the 744 to 53(?). UA publishes fares to MNL so they will take some one if they want to go but why encourage people to use UA for MNL? They can let them go to OZ (their *A partner).

It doesn't surprise me. What does surprise me is that NW still flies there. They must make a killing on cargo!

-m



[Edited 2007-10-14 15:08:35]

User currently offlineSCUMBAG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5741 times:

You can get a "Z" class Business First fare from Portland or Detroit or other west coast cities to Manila on NWA for $2600 plus tax. Can do it in trash class for little over a grand if you have advance time. Anyone who would pay the asking price from an airline (Full Fare) must have just won the lotto or is good at writing bad checks.. any consolidator can get you up front everytime for less than the published full economy rate. PLUS>>> the Asian crews (females) on NWA will melt your drawers!  Wow!

User currently offlineUnitedTristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5727 times:

Quoting SCUMBAG (Reply 12):
You can get a "Z" class Business First fare from Portland or Detroit or other west coast cities to Manila on NWA for $2600 plus tax. Can do it in trash class for little over a grand if you have advance time. Anyone who would pay the asking price from an airline (Full Fare) must have just won the lotto or is good at writing bad checks.. any consolidator can get you up front everytime for less than the published full economy rate. PLUS>>> the Asian crews (females) on NWA will melt your drawers! Wow!

Exactly my point...if they have to sell their C seats at the Z rates...thats not a very ideal route!

-m

 airplane 


User currently offlineIADCA From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1266 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5646 times:

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 6):
By the way, is there any word on the opening of the new international terminal at MNL? I know that it seems to have been "cleared up", but until pax start getting processed through there, I won't hold my breath.

It hasn't been cleared up entirely. There were two arbitrations related to the terminal. One got thrown out on a jurisdictional issue (basically, Fraport lost their right of action because they violated Philippine domestic law), but the other is still pending and goes to the panel next month, which means we could be still more than a year off from a resolution.

Quoting SCUMBAG (Reply 10):
I spoke to a friend who just retired from the government in Manila, he said the situation at the phantom terminal was a Marcos style cash grab by the upper crust in office, and the buck is still being passed. Some Chinese billionaire named Lim offered 20% of the original cost of construction (no interest) to the European backers of this massive monument to backstabbing, and they laughed at his offer, it has caused the assassination of one judge, as well as the ruin of several contractors. Now the roof is falling in, and most of the baggage delivery equipment has vanished! I call it the Hawllowen terminal

Nobody has any solid proof that it was a straight cash grab (or any that came out publically), but the behavior of a lot of the entities involved suggests it. Yes, the roof is falling in, and it wasn't just one assassination.


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 15, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5467 times:

The economic boom in Asia in the last 20 years has brought incredible wealth and GDP growth to many Far East Asian nations, but not the Philippines. As such, MNL remains a less than desirable destination for new US routes than destinations in South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong and China.

The US carriers will go to MNL when Philippine per capita income makes it worth their while.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineBrandonfs88 From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 177 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4769 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

But then theres the MNL Boxes............yuck

User currently offline787KQ From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 549 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4211 times:

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 15):
The US carriers will go to MNL when Philippine per capita income makes it worth their while.

They will go when the yield is good, of which per capita income is an indicator.... Seen India's per capita income recently?


User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3802 times:

the yields are very very low.....UA pulled out back in 1998 or so

User currently offlineLostmoon744 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 172 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2267 times:

Yep. NW is it. UA was there, and I preferred them. But as EXAAUADL points out, they bailed a long time ago. If memory serves, NW only has a few hours lay over from NRT to MNL, as opposed to some airlines that have several hours layover.

I truly do not like NW. I've been flying JA this whole time, and I am not looking back.


User currently onlineUnited787 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2698 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2098 times:

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 6):
The majority of passengers are are VFR, and Philippine Airlines has a good lock on the market for most travellers.

What is VFR (I know it is not Visual Flight Rules)?


Something else to note, the only European airlines to serve MNL is KL and LH.

Even in Asia/Pacific, there are a couple of major airlines that do NOT fly to MNL including NH, GA and NZ.


User currently offline9252fly From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 1391 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1967 times:

Quoting United787 (Reply 20):
What is VFR (I know it is not Visual Flight Rules)?

VFR = Visit Family and Relatives. Typically lower yielding traffic as it is more price sensitive that business travel.


User currently offlineAADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2088 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1953 times:

I have a friend whose sister worked for UA at MNL and according to her, the yields were just too low, and that was before 9/11/01. UA (which still has route authority to MNL) and other airlines have better opportunities elsewhere in Asia and have limited aircraft to operate them. If "the sick man of Asia" rebounds there will be more flights but even places like SGN look better right now. MNL needs more call centers or something.

Also, the FedEx hub at Subic Bay fills most of the cargo demand, so the passenger airlines need to depend mostly on the passengers, making it not very desirable..


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25117 posts, RR: 22
Reply 23, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1918 times:

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 21):
Quoting United787 (Reply 20):
What is VFR (I know it is not Visual Flight Rules)?

VFR = Visit Family and Relatives.

The more usual definition is Visit Friends and Relatives.


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