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Why Did WN Add Life Vests?  
User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3030 posts, RR: 2
Posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5728 times:

I have noticed that WN recently added Life Vests to their aircraft. Why? I thought the FAA requires it on 100+ seating aircraft but the NW A319, and UA B733+735 don't have them. Then I thought it was for more direct routes. Another possibility was for international expansion. Other that those I am clueless.


E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 49
Reply 1, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5725 times:

Overwater flying, Gulf of Mexico and the East and West Coasts.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3030 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5702 times:

Quote from Luv2fly: Overwater flying, Gulf of Mexico and the East and West Coasts.

Why did they get them thought, they were fine with flotation cushions. Again NW does it all time.



E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5685 times:

Quoting USAirALB (Thread starter):
I thought the FAA requires it on 100+ seating aircraft but the NW A319, and UA B733+735 don't have them. Then I thought it was for more direct routes. Another possibility was for international expansion. Other that those I am clueless.

Seating capacity has nothing to do with it, we just needed more operational flexibility in being able to go further out over the water. Prior to lifeVESTS being put onboard, seat cushions only allowed you to go out as far as 50nm from the nearest shoreline, and that limitation sometimes created some problems when Florida thunderstorms required deviations in excess of 50nm offshore. Between that, and not being able to use shorter, more direct routes over the Gulf and up and down the Atlantic coast, our increasing flight frequencies eventually made it cost-effective to install them. We did, and we're now able to go out as far as 162nm from the nearest shoreline. Should we ever need to go further out than 162nm, we'd have to install lifeRAFTS as well.


User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3030 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5666 times:

Prior to 2006 on WN what would babies do if the aircraft ditched? The adults couldnt hold on to both the baby and the cushion.


E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5643 times:

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 4):
Prior to 2006 on WN what would babies do if the aircraft ditched? The adults couldnt hold on to both the baby and the cushion.

Do you know how the seat cushion bottoms were configured and used?


User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3030 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5577 times:

Yeah

Your seat cushion may be used as a flotation device, simply place your arms through the straps and hug the cushion to you chest.

But still what would the babys do?



E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlineContrails From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1831 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5576 times:

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 3):
We did, and we're now able to go out as far as 162nm from the nearest shoreline. Should we ever need to go further out than 162nm, we'd have to install lifeRAFTS as well.

The 737-300's I was on last week (2) had life raft compartments in the forward ceiling. I don't recall any instructions from the FA's about them, however.



Flying Colors Forever!
User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3030 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5541 times:

are you sure you were on WN?

maybe Wn bought it from another airline. Im flying WN soon. I will check.



E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5524 times:

Quoting Contrails (Reply 7):
The 737-300's I was on last week (2) had life raft compartments in the forward ceiling. I don't recall any instructions from the FA's about them, however.

Just because the the compartments are there doesn't mean there are rafts within them. I can't recall if the "stock" -3H4 have the compartments labeled, but then again we have numerous non-3H4 -300s in the fleet that came from other operators that equipped theirs with rafts. Do you happen to recall the registration numbers of the ones you flew?

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 6):
Your seat cushion may be used as a flotation device, simply place your arms through the straps and hug the cushion to you chest.

But still what would the babys do?

Well, given that the straps are on the side of the seat cushion furthest away from you, I'd have tucked my youngster between myself and the side of the seat cushion closest to me, but that's just me...

[Edited 2007-10-14 15:50:34]

User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3030 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5373 times:

You know if they get life rafts and ETOPS rated, they could fly to Hawaii.

PS. Do life rafts have like food, h20, first aid kits in them?



E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5692 posts, RR: 52
Reply 11, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5358 times:

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 10):
You know if they get life rafts and ETOPS rated, they could fly to Hawaii.

We know, thats why we have ATA do all the work for us Big grin

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5273 times:

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 2):
Why did they get them thought, they were fine with flotation cushions

For the same reason jetBlue has them on their planes... to allow them to fly over water. Seat bottoms only allow you to hug the coast line.... vests allow you to fly over open water

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 4):
Prior to 2006 on WN what would babies do if the aircraft ditched?

Prior to 2006 Southwest was not allowed to fly over water. They had to hug the coast.

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 10):
Do life rafts have like food, h20, first aid kits in them?

Nope... nope and nope.

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 10):
You know if they get life rafts and ETOPS rated

I'm not even sure if the planes Southwest fly can be made ETOPS. There is a lot more to it then you'd understand. It's not just throwing a life raft on-board and calling it good. There are ETOPS B737's, but not all B737's can be made ETOPS

[Edited 2007-10-14 18:36:42]


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8653 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days ago) and read 5175 times:

Quoting Contrails (Reply 7):
The 737-300's I was on last week (2) had life raft compartments in the forward ceiling. I don't recall any instructions from the FA's about them, however.

I think you were on one of the ex US aircraft that WN has. If I am not mistaken, WN has other a/c they bought from other airliners with this feature.

Hunter



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineEWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5523 posts, RR: 56
Reply 14, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days ago) and read 5147 times:

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 10):
Do life rafts have like food, h20, first aid kits in them?

Life rafts have some of the following in them:

Sea anchor, bailing bucket, signaling tools, survival book, canopy, heaving line, tablets to purify water (to name some of the things).

Food, first aid kits, etc. and the like would come from crew (or passengers) after the evacuation was done (mind you if it ever got that far).



You can't cure stupid
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days ago) and read 5097 times:

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 12):
Seat bottoms only allow you to hug the coast line.... vests allow you to fly over open water



Quoting EMBQA (Reply 12):
Prior to 2006 Southwest was not allowed to fly over water. They had to hug the coast.

Nope.

As someone who has been dispatching SWA flights for over 25 years, I can assure you that we've been flying over water for decades, like ever since we started HOU-CRP, HOU-HRL, and MSY-HOU. At the risk of repeating myself, seat bottom cushions allowed us to be as far as 50nm from the nearest shoreline; lifeVESTS allow us out to as far as 162nm from the nearest shoreline; and beyond 162nm (if we wanted to do that) we'd need to add lifeRAFTS as well.


User currently offlineGoAllegheny From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 340 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days ago) and read 5092 times:

My question is - when was the last time that a US carrier accident required the use of life vests?

User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days ago) and read 5056 times:

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 15):
At the risk of repeating myself, seat bottom cushions allowed us to be as far as 50nm from the nearest shoreline

I understand that... I'd call 50nm 'hugging the coast line'.....I just didn't remember if it was 40 or 50 miles



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineAloha73G From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2354 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days ago) and read 5054 times:

HA's Life Rafts did have some water (1 or 2 quarts I think) and food (energy bar types) in them. Nothing substantial though.

These items were in the SURVIVAL portion of the provided equipment. There would also be equipment for SIGNALING (mirror, dye, flare) and MAINTENANCE (bailing bucket, patches).

-Aloha!



Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days ago) and read 5050 times:

Quoting GoAllegheny (Reply 16):
My question is - when was the last time that a US carrier accident required the use of life vests?

The only events that remotely come to mind are..

1. A Delta 767 or 757 LAX-CVG that got a little low after takeoff from LAX (can't recall the exact cause) and pax donned lifevests in preparation from ditching. Whatever the problems was, they got it recified and continued on to CVG, and some of the pax still had their vests on when they deplaned.

2. Eastern L-1011 MIA-NAS some years ago that shutdown an engine about 30 minutes into the 45 minute flight. They went back to MIA, but about halfway there, they started losing the other two engines, and started making preparations to ditch. (Aircraft was fresh out of overnight MX at MIA, where a chip detector on each engine had been checked, but had been replaced WITHOUT O-rings, which allowed engine oil to escape.) They got the engine re-started that had been shutdown first, and landed on a single engine.

3. National Airlines dunked a 727-200 in the Bay off PNS in the late 1970s....

3. Not a U.S. carrier, but an ALM DC-9 ditched off SXM back in the 1970s...


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (6 years 9 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5030 times:

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 17):
I understand that... I'd call 50nm 'hugging the coast line'

Well, you previously had said "Prior to 2006 Southwest was not allowed to fly over water" as if no water was allowed under the belly of the aircraft, and that along with "hugging the coast" kinda suggests that they were staying just over the land area...

Whatever... You understand my points... Later...


User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (6 years 9 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5006 times:

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 19):
Eastern L-1011 MIA-NAS some years ago that shutdown an engine

When I was in A&P School my powerplant Instructor (former EAL Mech) had very-very close ties to this event. After he told us the story..and I went on to become a mechanic, it always reminded me to check filters when changing them out of the new package.

I should have said before 2006 Southwest was required to stay withing 50nm of the coast....my error. I worked for an airline that fell under the same restriction and I just saw them as one in the same. 50nm was hugging the coast

[Edited 2007-10-14 20:02:48]


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 22, posted (6 years 9 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4882 times:

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 12):
Quoting USAirALB (Reply 10):
You know if they get life rafts and ETOPS rated

I'm not even sure if the planes Southwest fly can be made ETOPS. There is a lot more to it then you'd understand. It's not just throwing a life raft on-board and calling it good. There are ETOPS B737's, but not all B737's can be made ETOPS

Their 737NG's certainly can be made ETOPS-capable, if they aren't already. Not sure about their 737-Classics.

Tom.


User currently offlineChris133 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 303 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 9 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4714 times:

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 22):
Their 737NG's certainly can be made ETOPS-capable, if they aren't already. Not sure about their 737-Classics.

Tom.

All of the 737 even the classics had some sort of ETOPS capability, starting with the 732 in 1985. Here are the dates from the FAA and Boeing.

"ETOPS is nothing new to the Boeing 737 family. The 737-200 model was approved for 120-minute
ETOPS in 1985, the 737-300/-400/-500 in 1990 and the 737/-600/-700/-800 received 120-minute
ETOPS approval late last year. In fact, 737 models have performed over 100,000 ETOPS flights to
date." (from boeing.com)


In fact the 73NG are now 180 minute qualified.

chris


User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24899 posts, RR: 56
Reply 24, posted (6 years 9 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4638 times:

Thought life vests would have been mandatory


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
25 Pope : Has there ever been a successful ditching of a transport category passenger aircraft more than 50 miles offshore?
26 Post contains links 48V : Sure. Here's one example (Pan Am flight 6): http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19561016-0
27 Post contains images IAHFLYR : The original slam dunk!
28 Post contains images OPNLguy : I can recall the penned-in comments that I saw on a news clipping of the photo that was hanging on a crew bulletin board: "Dive! Dive!"
29 Pope : " target=_blank>http://aviation-safety.net/database/...016-0 Wow. Impressive. I'd never heard of Pan Am Flt 6. You learn something new every day. Than
30 Post contains links GeorgeJetson : There was also a Boeing 767-260 (ER) of Ethiopian (registered ET-AIZ) that ditched in the shallow waters off of Moroni in the Comores Islands on Novem
31 Luv2cattlecall : If they did, it would just be honey roasted peanuts and Wild Turkey...if you wanted water you'd get a few tablespoons in a cup jam packed with ice cu
32 Post contains links Viscount724 : Actually that flight was being operated by a US carrier and cockpit crew under a wet-lease arrangement with charter carrier Overseas National Airways
33 Post contains images USAirALB :
34 USAirALB : my dad owns a mooney a says that when he when he goes to Fl, they send him 26 miles out without any flotation device
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