MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 34580 posts, RR: 70 Posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 14669 times:
JetBlue has filed with DOT for service between Bogotá and both Fort Lauderdale and Orlando. The application isn't up yet, however.
Competition for the 21 new frequencies will be heavy.
So far, DL wants 14 for JFK-BOG, ATL-CLO, and ATL-MDE.
CO has said they will ask for "at least seven".
Spirit will also ask for at least seven, for FLL-BOG.
In addition, NK and DL are protesting AA's use of seven frequencies starting 13Dec07. Originally they were slated to go to MIA-BAQ. However, since then, Barranquilla flights are Open Skies, so they are free for AA to use them elsewhere, so AA will use them on MIA-BOG and MIA-MDE. Lawyers for Spirit and Delta are trying to argue that "since they aren't going to BAQ, they can't be used at all", while Continental doesn't even make the argument and assumes they will become free.
So we have four airlines for 21 frequencies, possibly 28. It is almost undeniable that Spirit and jetBlue will get seven each, as they are new entrants. The rest comes down to whether DL or CO has the stronger application. Delta will not get 14 frequencies, so they will have to pick JFK-BOG or ATL-MDE/CLO.
If the lawyers are able to persuade DOT that AA's use of the frequencies on MIA-BOG/MDE is unfair (the whole argument is based on a technicality and likely won't succede, then each airline will likely get seven.
Shadez From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 223 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 14476 times:
Wow. Very, very interesting. How far will JetBlue go with international flights out of FLL? I knew they were interested in STI, CUN, and NAS, but Bogota is much different. I imagine that they can't add many non pre-clearance routes, as T4 can barley handle all of the planes in terms of gates and passengers in terms of FIS. I imagine NK can't be very happy with JetBlue's sudden interest in Latin America from FLL. Anyway, this really makes the competition for the Colombia slots much more interesting.
Luisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 14454 times:
B6 moving into Latin America would be NKs worst nightmare. Lets see how this plays out. Latin America is an extremely profitable market, and the LCCs and other US airlines are finally starting to realize this.
JetBlueAUS From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1145 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 14402 times:
Quoting Luisca (Reply 7): B6 moving into Latin America would be NKs worst nightmare. Lets see how this plays out. Latin America is an extremely profitable market, and the LCCs and other US airlines are finally starting to realize this.
Anyone know how many additional gates B6 is acquiring at FLL since they have been adding quite a bit of flights?
Not all of us can be heroes, some of us can only stand on the sidewalk and clap as they go by.
WorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 14306 times:
However, B6's lack of presence in non-Caribbean Latin America might be a hindrance to them. The DOT has clearly favored carriers in limited service cases that have demonstrated abilities in a region of the world. The Caribbean and Latin America are not the same markets. B6 might be told to develop its Latin network in central American markets where there are plenty of opportunities.
JetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3195 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 14121 times:
So if JetBlue was given 7 of the frequencies, which route would get priority? MCO or FLL?
In any case, this would be a great way for JetBlue to enter the South American market - and there could be connecting service from JFK/BOS/IAD, etc. But this is a very big deal - a whole new chapter for JetBlue.
Well, it depends, b/c the Colombian government might have a problem with it. They both want the same route: BOG-FLL, and both are LCCs. If another airline has a more creative routing, or a totally new service (like CTG-IAH or something like it), it might get it before B6 or NK. But i agree that at least 7 of the frequencies will be given to an LCC. I bet AV is more than unhappy about it too.
Quoting Incitatus (Reply 11): So Delta wants to fly ATL-CLO? Do they have any intention of making money on it? Either they have no clue or this will end up being another Saturday-only expansion.
Well, the CLO market is indeed saturated, but if they operate an ATL-MDE-CLO or a traingle routing they won´t have a problem with the profits.
I am more than glad to see B6 applying for service to my hometown. I just didn´t see it coming, b/c the costs of operating at BOG are high (highest in latin america), and b/c BOG is a mixed market (let´s say 40% business, 30% VFR and 30% tourists), and american LCCs fly to typically leisure orientes destinations, such as NAS or CUN.
Bogotá has been making huge efforts to attract tourists, and it´s finally starting to show. International arrivals are up, as is hotel occupation, and the economy is also feeling the extra money spent by non-colombians.
WorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 14011 times:
Quoting OA412 (Reply 13): Of course not! DL's sole purpose is annoucing routes that will lose the airline bags and bags of money. I swear it's just a bunch of clowns running that airline.
Yes, which totally explains why DL in the most recent quarter was more profitable on an operating profit margin basis than AA or CO and why DL was within a fraction of a percent of CO in the JD Power customer service survey and way ahead of AA. (sarcasm).
Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 14): Well, it depends, b/c the Colombian government might have a problem with it.
The Colombian gov't has no input as to how the routes are distributed as long as it is within the parameters that were agreed upon in the treaty.
I don't really think B6 and NK will both get a route because there isn't that much unique between their proposals. But that will be up to the US DOT decide, not the Colombian gov't.
OA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6023 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 13857 times:
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Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 15): Yes, which totally explains why DL in the most recent quarter was more profitable on an operating profit margin basis than AA or CO and why DL was within a fraction of a percent of CO in the JD Power customer service survey and way ahead of AA. (sarcasm).
I agree with you and was just being sarcastic in my reply. It never ceases to amaze me that some people will immediately trash every move that DL makes simply on the basis that they hate the airline for whatever reason. I swear there are very few airlines on this forum that bring out such hatred in some people.
SKYYBLUE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 13772 times:
Any idea on when the route awards will be announced? Will it be like JFK-CUN (one calender year later...)? I think this is good news for B6. Diversify the network. Expand FLL while we still have the chance.
SKYYBLUE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 13259 times:
Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 21): Why is JetBlue adamant about starting Florida-BOG rather than service from its largest hub?
JFK-BOG is a route that I would imagine seeing weight restrictions, lots of VFR. Also has competition from CO, AA, and AV. MCO-BOG would only pit B6 against Avianca. In FLL's case, I'm sure that the DOT won't award seven frequencies to both B6 & NK, so B6 just put in for this crossing their fingers. Avianca would be the only competitor on FLL-BOG and AA on MIA-BOG of course. I think it is a great start to South American expansion and kudos to network planning for jumping on this opportunity.
Quoting Azul320 (Reply 2): Why all the international? What about the rest of the USA!!!!
Why not? Thats where the money is! I'm sure they are still going to connect the dots in the U.S., but why not jump on this instead of sit back and let NK and the others hog up all the routes. It makes sense to me.
FlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 7092 posts, RR: 23
Reply 23, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 13206 times:
Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 9): However, B6's lack of presence in non-Caribbean Latin America might be a hindrance to them. The DOT has clearly favored carriers in limited service cases that have demonstrated abilities in a region of the world.
Not really. The DOT gave US rights to fly PHL-China, even though US has no experience flying to Asia and currently doesn't even operate an aircraft capable of flying the route.
B6's bigger weakness is that both they and Spirit are applying for the same route. That would be a bigger hindrance, though it's still possible both will win.
Maybe they want to see how it does from Florida and then expand it to JFK. Plus you know how it is with the Carribbean and South America with the bags. Doubt that plane will go out 150 with all the bags.
: Why? AirTran's expanding in Wisconsin, and besides not wanting to start a fight with NW, Michigan's economy is the worst in the United States right n
: Delta is a seasonal carrier that cancels out a large number of frequencies in the Winter. If it did not have the greatest results in the third quarte
: This confirms my opinion that FLL would make a great Latin American hub for UA. Rather than go head to head with AA at MIA, they could still pull from
: I think a DL "triangle" type of flight ATL-MDE-CLO will be a great route to operate with a 738 since I don't see them needing two a/c for these flight
: Of all the possible places for Jet Blue to fly from FLL to, why Colombia ? It makes sense for Spirit Airline but why JB, They would be better to fly f
: The application actually speaks of seperate service, 3x weekly CLO and 4x weekly MDE, both with a 738 I take you mean JFK-BOG as they already serve A
: I think you know the answer to that question....
: This route actually wouldn't be a bad idea for Jetblue as long as they can turn a profit. Since Jetblue goes Mx in El Salvador, they could potentiall
: Wow, suddenly there is all this competition for Colombian routes. I would love to see JetBlue in BOG. NK is bound to be given the FLL-BOG authority si
: Which is the whole point of any new route, right?? Except its not like B6 planes are flying to El Salvador daily. Or even weekly. So bang goes that t
: They have absolutely no say, the same way the U.S. has no say in which Colombian airlines get the new slots. The only way the Colombian government ca
: JFK to BOG is about 2500 miles, as far as California from JFK. JetBlue flies plenty to the west coast from JFK. The only factor is the altitude in BO
: Would there be any Direct TV reception on a Florida-Colombia routing?
: Only the part flown over or near the US, apparently. Distance is not an issue, obviously. But the 8Kft elevation is... I don't have any calculations
: It's Bogota's climate and altitude that make it a problem.
: BOG has long runways, but the problem is the weight restriction for an A320 taking off at 8000 ft for a 4000 Km flight. I have to agree that it would
: How long are BOG's runways? I'm guessing this is why B6 is applying for Florida-BOG and not NYC-BOG.
: Let's not ignore some other key facts, such as the fact that Florida represents more than half of all USA-Colombia traffic, and that while Florida-Co
: Both runways are around 12,000ft long, which normally should be enough to avoid too hefty payload restrictions on an A320 headed to JFK.
: I think that Colombia would be a great addition to B6's route map and with add some depth to the carribean and latin american markets. Recently did je
: also to add, if people don't mind connections to fly us to BOG...there is a possibility of up to 13 cities you can connect to/from in FLL to BOG (9 fr
: I think B6 will the MCO-BOG as they would be the only players in that market. If that does not work (I am willing to bet it does), B6 can try out of J
: just wait some months and you will see them there....
: The proposed routings are IAD-FLL-BOG and BOS-MCO-BOG. Just a minor correction, but airlines do not apply for US-Colombia routes, they apply for US-C