LIPZ From Austria, joined Jun 2006, 1075 posts, RR: 0 Posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 7989 times:
According to Thomson Financial, AF-KL-DL will be announcing ORY-JFK service soon operated by DL with new TATL 757s.
Air France-KLM and Delta Airlines plan to launch a daily flight between Paris Orly and New York in summer 2008, La Tribune reported, without naming its sources.
Delta would take advantage of Air France-KLM's slots at the airport and operate a two-class Boeing 757 on the route, the paper said.
The paper said the two airlines would announce the move tomorrow, as part of a presentation of a wide-ranging agreement.
Panamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4587 posts, RR: 26 Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 7774 times:
Quoting FoxXray (Reply 1): So if this information is true, ORY will get 3 daily flights to NYC next year (2 with l'Avion to EWR and one with DL to JFK).
You'll probably see a 4th one soon - BA with Project "Lauren" ....which is precisely, I believe, the reason that AF/DL are launching ORY-JFK.
DAL767400ER From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 5721 posts, RR: 50 Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 7753 times:
Quoting Panamair (Reply 2): You'll probably see a 4th one soon - BA with Project "Lauren" ....which is precisely, I believe, the reason that AF/DL are launching ORY-JFK.
And sometime down the road then, it will be two again once L'Avion finds it hard to compete with DL and BA...
FoxXray From France, joined May 2005, 354 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7714 times:
Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 3): And sometime down the road then, it will be two again once L'Avion finds it hard to compete with DL and BA...
Yes, presently l'Avion has no competitor at ORY so it will be hard for them, but they don't offer the same product than DL or BA so let's hope it will be ok for l'Avion !
Varig md-11 From France, joined Jul 2000, 1575 posts, RR: 9 Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7582 times:
Quoting Panamair (Reply 2): You'll probably see a 4th one soon - BA with Project "Lauren"
where BA is going to take the slots from? DL can use an AF slot which are plenty at ORY
as far as I know BA is based at CDG and I never heard BA would be given new slots at ORY
AF TW AA NW BA U2 TP UX LH SK AZ MP KL SN VY HV LS SS TK SQ RG
DAL767400ER From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 5721 posts, RR: 50 Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7532 times:
Quoting Varig md-11 (Reply 5): where BA is going to take the slots from? DL can use an AF slot which are plenty at ORY
as far as I know BA is based at CDG and I never heard BA would be given new slots at ORY
Perhaps the same way DL gets slots at LHR, through one of their alliance or franchise partners? Granted, I don't know which oneworld carriers or BA partners serve ORY, but that might be an option.
TYCOON From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 329 posts, RR: 4 Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7461 times:
Only OneWorld partner at ORY is IB, and a pretty frequent operator of flights out of ORY. We could imagine IB shifting some of their flights to CDG (where they already are) and freeing up some frequencies for BA. Clickair could shift their flights to CDG for example.
WA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2043 posts, RR: 13 Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7290 times:
Quoting TYCOON (Reply 7): Only OneWorld partner at ORY is IB, and a pretty frequent operator of flights out of ORY. We could imagine IB shifting some of their flights to CDG (where they already are) and freeing up some frequencies for BA
Or AA! For several years, AA was the only US carrier serving ORY (all the other airlines had moved to CDG). I can't see AA letting DL have a competitive advantage by flying into ORY instead of CDG, and I wouldn't be surprised if AA tries to move back.
FoxXray From France, joined May 2005, 354 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7250 times:
Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 8): Or AA! For several years, AA was the only US carrier serving ORY (all the other airlines had moved to CDG). I can't see AA letting DL have a competitive advantage by flying into ORY instead of CDG, and I wouldn't be surprised if AA tries to move back.
AA has no flights from ORY, so the only OneWorld partner who can provide slots to BA is IB...
I don't think that AA wants to move back to ORY but they will maybe start to reopen somes routes in the future !
TYCOON From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 329 posts, RR: 4 Reply 10, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7203 times:
OneWorld is starting to open up a mini-hub of sorts at Terminal 2A+2B at CDG. AA, BA, CX, RJ and MA all operate from these two terminals (which are opposite each other and connected by an underground pathway). IB and AY operate out of 2D (next to 2B) and JL operates out of 2F a bit further away. With the coming withdrawal of AF completely from 2A + 2B, I could see those becoming OneWorld terminals - with perhaps AY, IB and JL moving there. Only issue for AY and JL is their ongoing codeshare agreements with AF.
So I don't really see AA moving back to ORY.
MaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 15732 posts, RR: 48 Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 7172 times:
Quoting FoxXray (Reply 4): but they don't offer the same product than DL or BA so let's hope it will be ok for l'Avion !
If BA and/or DL start NYC/ORY, it's au revoir l'avion even sooner than they would otherwise peter out on their own.
Papatango From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 500 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 7051 times:
We just might see JFK-LYS announced tomorrow also.
Dalb777 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2192 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6798 times:
What are the advantages of ORY over CDG?
Geaux Tigers! Geaux Hornets! Geaux Saints! WHO DAT!!!
UPPERDECKFAN From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 992 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6709 times:
Most of IB/XG flights to Paris are to ORY instead of CDG, as said before ORY is much more convenient for O&D traffic and one would assume that most of OW members going into/out of Paris are O&D since connecting options are very limited.
IMO, it makes very good sense for OW european carriers (IB,AY,BA,MA) to build a mini hub at ORY instead of CDG which is a SKY hub.
TYCOON From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 329 posts, RR: 4 Reply 17, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6581 times:
OW carriers would never get the frequencies necessary to build a mini-hub at ORY. Star Alliance has created a mini-hub at CDG 1, I could see OW trying to replicate if successful.
The key thing to remember for all alliances, not just Skyteam, is that CDG still represents one of the few major large European airports with considerable available capacity. CDG, to my knowledge, is not slot restricted.
WA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2043 posts, RR: 13 Reply 18, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6564 times:
Quoting TYCOON (Reply 17): Star Alliance has created a mini-hub at CDG 1, I could see OW trying to replicate if successful.
Why would OW try to build a mini hub at CDG, when MAD (which isn't slot restricted) is just 650 miles away, and LHR (which is slot restricted, but where the OW carriers already have a huge presence) is just 250 miles away?
Skyteam10001 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 194 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5466 times:
The schedule is already (partially) loaded on delta.com
Skyteam10001 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 194 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5352 times:
after a quick check, they are going head-to-head with L'Avion timing on the ORY-NYC run (L'Avion's flight leaves ORY at 1.40pm) however on the way back, L'Avion flight leaves EWR at 7.05pm
I don't get why DL chose such a late departure for the ORY flight from JFK. It gets you in Paris after noon. I would have assumed the flight to arrive in Paris around 8am to give ppl a full day in Paris.
The Lyon schedule (which I just saw posted) seems to work much better IMO
A.
25 MaverickM11: What benefit is there at ORY? Any carrier that moves to ORY from CDG can kiss their connections to just about anywhere other than France goodbye.
26 Skyteam10001: ORY is closer and a bit easier to access from Paris. It is also a smaller airport so it is much easier to navigate in my opinion. I now live and work
27 FoxXray: Good news, it will be nice to see DL at LYS again (and at ORY too) !
28 DAL767400ER: I'm surprised by the duration of the stops in France. 2:25h each in both ORY and LYS. You'd think they could easily turn the 757 in 1:30h and rather
29 Evan767: Looks like there'll be a daylight flight to Heathrow.
30 TOLtommy: Not to nitpick (well maybe a little), but this is a reintroduction of DL service JFK-ORY. All of DL's service to Paris was via ORY until after the PA
31 Lawndart: Two daily round-trip JFK-LHR and one daily round-trip ATL-LHR loaded at Delta.com Also, JFK-LYS loaded...
32 DeltAirlines: Interesting to see that DL is planning on doing 4x daily service on JFK-London next year; the 2 LGW non-stops are still available as well as the 2 new
33 TOLtommy: Interesting, DL is already looking for a fare premium into LHR. I plugged in dates in May 08 for flights JFK-LHR, and JFK-LGW. LGW is $100 less for a
34 MaverickM11: I don't think it's a very compelling reason seeing as CDG has pretty efficient train service to Paris. CDG isn't the world's favorite airport but I r
35 WorldTraveler: me too.... but that was probably another strike. The increased turn times and late dept from JFK are probably dictated by optimizing its schedule at
36 Pellegrine: Convenient for those getting off work in NYC, but not convenient for going straight to work in Paris... Yields might be depressed on that one. Possib
37 ElmoTheHobo: Both of these airports are on Europe's periphery. CDG, along with FRA, ZRH, BRU. AMS, etc... are more convenient for connection between European coun
38 UPPERDECKFAN: It's a matter of alliance setup, if you're a OW member flying out of the US to a third country in Europe (not France) on AA, why would you connect at
39 Varig md-11: I agree I don't know why this ORY love story...only for biz people working in Western Paris, ORY might have an advantage in order to avoid congestion
40 Icna05e: When are they starting those routes exactly? Is it may 08? I agree with upperdeckfan, late evening flight US->Europe are the best for me (not that I h
41 TYCOON: Having an additional hub operation for an alliance is certainly interesting as it allows your clients additional connection possibilities. If a number
42 MaverickM11: AF serves a lot more unique destinations out of CDG than IB or BA at their respective hubs, particularly in Africa.
43 Skyteam10001: I just realised (and hope I am not the only one) that the JFK-ORY flight is not daily but only 4pw (from the press release). That is very weird ! Why
44 Skyteam10001: I should have read the press release entirely before getting all freaked out. It says at the very bottom in small characters that the flight will beco
45 UPPERDECKFAN: If you are going to one of this unique destinations, don't you think it would make more sense to fly SKY (DL/NW/CO/AF) out of the US to CDG thus avoi
46 Panamair: Is it actually confirmed that BA is going to CDG instead of ORY? I know the thread says CDG-JFK for BA but if you click on the linked article, there'
47 Goldorak: I think it will be very hard for BA (or impossible) to have slots at ORY.
48 MaverickM11: Of course...it's pure revenge for AF's LHR incursion. It would, but if you're a oneworld or star mileage member, you want to fly them as far as they
49 WorldTraveler: I believe the press release says it will go to daily as of July 1.
50 Ordfrbdl: As stated earlier, if you live in the southern suburbs of Paris (Essonne, Yvelines etc) and if there's a non-stop cross-pond flight leaving from ORY,
51 UPPERDECKFAN: Disagree, it won't be very hard nevertheless impossible, BA could easily negotiate one or two of the many slots IB have at ORY. You're making me righ
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