Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
EVA Air To Start TPE-EWR Non-stop  
User currently offlineBRxxx From Taiwan, joined Aug 2007, 113 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 9196 times:

They announced it a few weeks ago.
They plan to use 777-300ER on this route non-stop to EWR but with 1 stop at ANC on the way back to TPE due to head winds. Because of this they will cancel the EWR via Seattle which therefore means that it is now split into 2 different routes.
My question is why did they convert their orders of 777-200LR to 777-300ER when they could have used it on this flight so they wouldn't have to have a fuel stop??


Flown on:A320,A332,A333,B737,B738,B763,B744,B77W,B773,E175,E190,MD90,MD11
32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSeabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5306 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 9015 times:

Something doesn't make sense here. EWR-TPE is under 7000 nm. JFK-HKG is longer, and CX flies that route nonstop with A340-600 equipment. EWR-TPE nonstop should be well within the reach of a 777-300ER. The only thing I can imagine is that BR feels that it's more profitable to stop in ANC with a belly full of cargo than to take payload restrictions. Too bad for the pax.

User currently offlineBRxxx From Taiwan, joined Aug 2007, 113 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 8935 times:

How could it be more profitable to stop in ANC? I know for fact that a lot of fuel gets burnt off while take-off.


Flown on:A320,A332,A333,B737,B738,B763,B744,B77W,B773,E175,E190,MD90,MD11
User currently offlineSeabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5306 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 8888 times:

It could be more profitable for BR to make the stop because BR could carry more cargo. I don't have access to exact figures, but it's certain that a 777-300ER on a 7000nm trip (or effectively longer, given the headwinds) will not be able to carry much cargo. With the stop in ANC, BR could load the 777-300ER up to max payload. Part of the attraction of the 777-300ER (and the A340-600, for that matter) for airlines is the aircraft's huge belly capacity.

Also, ultra-long-range flights are not very fuel-efficient per pound-mile, even if they burn less total fuel. In the first portion of a ULR flight, you're burning an awful lot of fuel just to carry fuel, rather than revenue-generating cargo or pax. For just one example, this is one reason that QF has not yet found an economically feasible way to fly SYD-LHR nonstop, despite the fact that a premium-configured 777-200LR with 3 aux tanks can almost always cover the distance.


User currently offlineBRxxx From Taiwan, joined Aug 2007, 113 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 8870 times:

Thanks for clarifying. Big grin


Flown on:A320,A332,A333,B737,B738,B763,B744,B77W,B773,E175,E190,MD90,MD11
User currently offlineUSADreamliner From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 8858 times:

They will start Cargo flights to Houston beginning Nov. 1. The new service will be routed through Anchorage and Chicago, twice a week with a 747-400F.

User currently offlineMason From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 748 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 8836 times:

What does this mean for the TPE-SEA leg? Will it stay a 747, or switch to a 773, as rumored? Any frequency changes?

User currently offlineTjwgrr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2419 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 8745 times:

Quoting BRxxx (Thread starter):
They plan to use 777-300ER on this route non-stop to EWR but with 1 stop at ANC on the way back to TPE due to head winds

Hopefully it will arrive and depart EWR during daylight hours so we can SEE it.  sun 



Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
User currently offlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 8681 times:

Quoting Tjwgrr (Reply 7):

Unfortunately the departure time is still in the dark hours and the arrival time is around 8pm. In the summer it might be possible to see it in light.



No Vueling No Party
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9481 posts, RR: 52
Reply 9, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 8506 times:

I also wonder how SEA will be affected. Maybe the SEA flight will leave at a more sane hour as well. It has to be retimed without the EWR continuation.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineTjwgrr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2419 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 8384 times:

From EVAair.com:

"TAIPEI, TAIWAN (28 Sept., 2007) -- EVA Air is putting a new Boeing 777-300ER in service on its Taipei – New York route on 4 Dec., 2007. With the equipment change, EVA will fly to New York nonstop and reduce flight time for its three weekly flights to 14 hours, shaving approximately four hours off the trip and eliminating a stop in Seattle. Return flights from New York to Taipei will make a one-hour, fifteen-minute refueling stop in Anchorage because of strong head winds.....

......EVA’s Taipei – New York flight BR32 will leave Taipei’s Taoyuan International Airport on Monday, Thursday and Saturday at 6:50 pm and arrive at Newark International Airport at 8:10 pm the same day. Return flight BR31 departs New York the same evening 9:50 pm and arrives in Taipei two days later at 6:10 am."



Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 9):
I also wonder how SEA will be affected. Maybe the SEA flight will leave at a more sane hour as well. It has to be retimed without the EWR continuation.

"EVA will also introduce B777-300ERs on its four weekly Taipei – Seattle flights. The equipment upgrades on the two routes are not only good economic moves for the airline but also will enhance service quality for passengers......

........EVA’s Taipei – Seattle flight BR26 will take off from Taoyuan International Airport on Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday and Sunday and land in Seattle at 5:35 pm the same day. Return flight BR25 departs Seattle at 1:30 am the following day and gets into Taipei at 6:40 am."


http://www.evaair.com/html/b2c/english/eva/news/2007/news200709280003

[Edited 2007-10-16 12:01:33]


Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
User currently offlineTWA902fly From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 3122 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 8321 times:

1 hour and 40 minute turn in EWR?

'902



life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9481 posts, RR: 52
Reply 12, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 8312 times:

Quoting Tjwgrr (Reply 10):
EVA’s Taipei – Seattle flight BR26 will take off from Taoyuan International Airport on Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday and Sunday and land in Seattle at 5:35 pm the same day. Return flight BR25 departs Seattle at 1:30 am the following day and gets into Taipei at 6:40 am."

That's a lot of time on the ground in SEA.

Those timings are pretty close to what China Airlines does so I guess that is what you have to deal with when flying to TPE unlike SEL and NRT from SEA, but at least China Airlines has a late morning arrival and departs a little earlier in the wee hours of the morning.

Quoting Tjwgrr (Reply 10):
EVA’s Taipei – New York flight BR32 will leave Taipei’s Taoyuan International Airport on Monday, Thursday and Saturday at 6:50 pm and arrive at Newark International Airport at 8:10 pm the same day. Return flight BR31 departs New York the same evening 9:50 pm and arrives in Taipei two days later at 6:10 am."

1 hour and 40 minutes is a reasonably tight turn in EWR.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineMason From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 748 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 8085 times:

Well, finally the 773ER gets into SEA. As this has been rumored for some time, I am not surprised. I can't believe the return to TPE still departs in the early AM!

This brings me to another interesting point: during peak times at the S terminal in SEA, how many international gates remain open? With 2x BA, NW, AF, SAS, OZ, KE, and CI, how many open gates are there betwen 1 and 3 PM?


User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2940 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 8023 times:

Quoting Seabosdca (Reply 1):
Something doesn't make sense here. EWR-TPE is under 7000 nm. JFK-HKG is longer, and CX flies that route nonstop with A340-600 equipment. EWR-TPE nonstop should be well within the reach of a 777-300ER

Hint is EVA Air, as a Taiwanese carrier, cannot overfly PRC while CX can.


User currently offlineEconojetter From Malaysia, joined May 2001, 430 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7966 times:

To me, this change lessens the appeal of BR's EWR service as it reduces the frequency to only 3x weekly. The refueling stop on the eastbound BR32, while adding time to the journey, was not much of a problem. It's the stop (at around 2-3AM) on the westbound BR31 that I find annoying; yet this stop needs to remain as BR wants to fill up on cargo.

User currently offlineTrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4679 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 7902 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 14):
Hint is EVA Air, as a Taiwanese carrier, cannot overfly PRC while CX can.

both BR and CI have been overflying the PRC on flights to Europe for at least 2 years if not longer.


User currently offlineBartond From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 788 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 7672 times:

Does EVA have any other plans for US expansion in the next few years? I really don't hear much about them except for a rumor here and there, but I am curious as to whether or not they want more destinations here in the States. Does anybody know anything?

User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9481 posts, RR: 52
Reply 18, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 7637 times:

Quoting Bartond (Reply 17):
Does EVA have any other plans for US expansion in the next few years? I really don't hear much about them except for a rumor here and there, but I am curious as to whether or not they want more destinations here in the States. Does anybody know anything?

I kind of doubt they will be going after other destinations. Frequencies might be increased to destinations they already serve however. Most Asian carriers are only intrested in LAX, SFO, SEA and JFK/EWR. The west coast is where there is far more business and trade going on with Asia. Furthermore the populations of expatriats are much larger on the west coast, which fills up economy seats and fosters stronger business relationships to attempt to fill up the front cabin. Now of course there are exceptions with carriers involved heavily in an alliance like NH or KE.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineKohflot From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 7630 times:

It would be interesting to eventually see BR try another tag from SEA. LAS? DEN? MIA?

User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2940 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 7460 times:

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 16):
both BR and CI have been overflying the PRC on flights to Europe for at least 2 years if not longer.

This is news to me. I know about the Chinese New Year charter flights.
BR & CI have little or no non-stops to Europe, with most stopping in BKK. BR's few weekly 74E TPE-CDG flight the only exception?
Perhaps someone from Taiwan or PRC can shed some light on this subject.


User currently offlineBRxxx From Taiwan, joined Aug 2007, 113 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 7288 times:

Now thats a tight schedule for BR 777-300ER since they only have 7 of them and only 8 by December!

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 20):
This is news to me. I know about the Chinese New Year charter flights.
BR & CI have little or no non-stops to Europe, with most stopping in BKK. BR's few weekly 74E TPE-CDG flight the only exception?
Perhaps someone from Taiwan or PRC can shed some light on this subject.

I have a friend that recently flew from FRA to TPE on CI and he said that they went through China's airspace. However, I'm not sure if it applies for other airlines.



Flown on:A320,A332,A333,B737,B738,B763,B744,B77W,B773,E175,E190,MD90,MD11
User currently offlineBrenintw From Taiwan, joined Jul 2006, 1607 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 7273 times:

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 14):
Hint is EVA Air, as a Taiwanese carrier, cannot overfly PRC while CX can

Both BR and CI are able to fly over PRC airspace. The reason most Europe flights stop in BKK is because BKK is where the passengers go to ... both from Europe and Taiwan.

I'm not sure what BR's ETOPS rating is -- 120 or 180 -- that might be a reason why TPE - EWR doesn't head over the pole.



I'm tired of the A vs. B sniping. Neither make planes that shed wings randomly!
User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 8861 posts, RR: 75
Reply 23, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 7262 times:

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 20):
BR & CI have little or no non-stops to Europe, with most stopping in BKK. BR's few weekly 74E TPE-CDG flight the only exception?

Pretty sure even the TPE-BKK, and other flights to Asian ports, including the middle east go via Hong Kong and Sanya airspace, which is China.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineGunsontheroof From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3499 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 7242 times:

Quoting Tjwgrr (Reply 10):

........EVA’s Taipei – Seattle flight BR26 will take off from Taoyuan International Airport on Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday and Sunday and land in Seattle at 5:35 pm the same day. Return flight BR25 departs Seattle at 1:30 am the following day and gets into Taipei at 6:40 am."

That's a lot of ground time in Seattle. What gives?

Quoting Mason (Reply 13):
This brings me to another interesting point: during peak times at the S terminal in SEA, how many international gates remain open? With 2x BA, NW, AF, SAS, OZ, KE, and CI, how many open gates are there betwen 1 and 3 PM?

Those flights all arrive in different banks from the early to mid morning (the NRT, CI TPE and ICN flights) into the early-late afternoon/early evening (AMS, CDG, LHR, CPH, BR TPE). I suppose throwing NW's new MSP/HNL flights with the A330s into the mix might make things a bit crowded, but I don't think space is going to be at a premium in S anytime soon.

It'll be nice to see the 773ER at SEA, but I'll miss seeing that Eva 744 coming in over the city from my bedroom window late at night...they're one of the few carriers coming in at night that turn on their logo lights!



Next Flight: 9/17 BFI-BFI
25 Post contains links Trex8 : http://taiwanjournal.nat.gov.tw/ct.asp?xItem=21505&CtNode=118 Right now, flights leaving Taiwan for Europe, South Asia and the Middle East must avoid
26 Post contains links Brenintw : Trex, the publication date of that article is 26 August, 2005. Reports in September 2005 mentioned that the necessary permission had been obtained: h
27 Trex8 : Bren, I was trying to clarify the flights affected, not that its a new thing, like I said in post 16, its been happening for 2 years. Zeke or someone,
28 Zeke : The only real expensive airspace I know of is just west of St Petersburg, we route around that. Going via China/Mongolia/Russia, or China/Kazakhstan/
29 Carpethead : Thanks for the update, all. If they are now flying over PRC, would it seem more reasonable to have non-stop flights to key European destinations? Or i
30 Brenintw : There's not the Taiwan - Europe traffic to justify frequent non-stop flights. A substantial portion of the traffic is Europe - BKK or BKK - TPE.
31 BRxxx : Czech Republic has given green light for CI and BR to operate 14 flights weekly into Prague. Maybe if they were operate direct flight, they might use
32 Trex8 : CIs TPE-AUH-VIE/TPE-FRA already go through PRC so its quite likely
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
DL To Start JFK-TLV Non-stop Next March? posted Sun Jun 10 2007 18:03:05 by Jycarlisle
FL To Start IND-SEA Non-stop? posted Wed Feb 28 2007 03:29:24 by AlexInWa
NK To Start ACY-SJU Non-stop posted Wed Feb 21 2007 22:09:43 by Nkops
NK To Start ACY-LAS Non-stop posted Wed Feb 14 2007 21:01:51 by Nkops
United/Skywest To Start ASE-LAX Non-Stop posted Wed Mar 22 2006 19:08:18 by UAPremierGuy
Copa To Start 2nd Daily Non Stop PTY-GUA posted Fri Jan 27 2006 17:17:37 by Luisca
TAM To Start REC-CDG Non Stop posted Fri Oct 14 2005 03:43:51 by LipeGIG
AR To Start EZE-BCN Non-stop, 2x Weekly, With A342 posted Tue Jul 12 2005 07:16:23 by Marambio
EVA Air To Restart TPE-HNL Service posted Sun Apr 24 2005 22:25:19 by Alexchao
Delta To Start ATL-YVR Non Stop posted Thu Dec 19 2002 01:07:58 by Delta_fan