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NW 747 Freighter Status  
User currently offlineN501US From United States of America, joined May 2005, 222 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 2 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3001 times:
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Does anyone have any information on the NWA 747 Freighter fleet? It was my impression that some of the older ones (the original 3 were delivered in the 70's) are truly old in terms of hours. Is there any talk of a replacement for these workhorses?

Thanks!


Fools and thieves are well disguised in the temple and the marketplace.....
28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNa From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10817 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2980 times:

N618US (built 1975 and almost 32 years in continous service) has been stored since a few months.
As N616US and N617US are of the same age, retirement can´t be far. N619US is only two years younger.


User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3217 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2933 times:

Quoting N501US (Thread starter):
Is there any talk of a replacement for these workhorses?

Nothing official from the company, but there have been those rumors that if NWA firms up all of their 50x 787 options, their entire 744 fleet will be converted to 744F. Of course, it then begs the question where will they get the additional NRT slots for loss of capacity and increase in frequency???

Of course, I'd personally love to see them get all 68x 787's and keep the 744's in pax service, but their 742F's are getting pretty old & worn out.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26131 posts, RR: 50
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2911 times:

As I recall from reading in an interview article with the head of NWA Cargo, two additional 742F will be withdrawn first half of 2008.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineN501US From United States of America, joined May 2005, 222 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2888 times:
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Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 2):
Of course, it then begs the question where will they get the additional NRT slots for loss of capacity and increase in frequency???

Of course, I'd personally love to see them get all 68x 787's and keep the 744's in pax service,

They could use the 787 to overfly NRT to a certain extent.

As profitable as the Freight business is for NW, I would think that a decision can't be too far off. Especially if they have had to park a plane due to old age.



Fools and thieves are well disguised in the temple and the marketplace.....
User currently offlineJSquared From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 149 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2812 times:

Has NWA Cargo has ruled out the 747-8F yet?

User currently onlineER757 From Cayman Islands, joined May 2005, 2607 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 months 4 days ago) and read 2692 times:

Quoting JSquared (Reply 5):
Has NWA Cargo has ruled out the 747-8F yet?

No they haven't. As a matter of fact, NW's CEO was quoted in an interview in Air Crago World as saying that was his preferred option for replacing the 742F's. Of course, funding availability will play a large role in how they go about the replacement cycle. He indicated that 744 conversions are a distinct possibility as well.


User currently offlineNa From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10817 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2553 times:

What puzzles me is that out of all NWA freighters not a single one (with the obvious exception of two new conversions which were done in 2005) has been repainted in the new livery since 2003. Not one D-check in 4 years within NWAs Cargo fleet, thats hard to believe. Even N644NW in the joint NW/KLM livery hasn´t been touched.

User currently offlineAf773atmsp From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2713 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2543 times:

Since NW is a strong Airbus customer, could NW possibly order some A332Fs? I think NW will order some 748F's and convert some of their 744s into 744F's.


It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
User currently onlineDualQual From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 793 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2405 times:

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 2):
Of course, it then begs the question where will they get the additional NRT slots for loss of capacity and increase in frequency???

Do NRT slots only apply for one of the runways for larger aircraft? Could a 787 utilize the shorter runway which would eliminate the need for a slot? I think it is NRT I am thinking of where CO does not need a slot for the 738 operation since it can use the shorter runway.


User currently offlineLexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2515 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2392 times:

I had once heard that N631NW would be withdrawn here soon. Am I correct on that assumption or way off? Anyone?


Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
User currently offline0NEWAIR0 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 939 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2351 times:

I would look to 744s staying pax, 742s staying in service, and a 748F order. 742s can make more money per flight than the 744s...well, thats when their reliability rate is above 45%....


"The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams."
User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10817 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2228 times:

Quoting Lexy (Reply 10):
I had once heard that N631NW would be withdrawn here soon. Am I correct on that assumption or way off? Anyone?

Thats one of the "newer" NWA freighter, and just has been converted 2 years ago. I doubt that this is right, unless this airfranme has some specific problems. That aircraft is 23 years old, extremely young for a freighter to be retired.


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7089 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2223 times:

Quoting N501US (Reply 4):
As profitable as the Freight business is for NW, I would think that a decision can't be too far off. Especially if they have had to park a plane due to old age.

I hope they will order some 747-8Is and 747-8Fs soon  Smile



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6531 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2174 times:

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 2):
Nothing official from the company, but there have been those rumors that if NWA firms up all of their 50x 787 options, their entire 744 fleet will be converted to 744F. Of course, it then begs the question where will they get the additional NRT slots for loss of capacity and increase in frequency???

All of those rumors you refer to, have been on this forum with zero back-up. Not a reliable source.


User currently offlineLexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2515 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2154 times:

Quoting NA (Reply 12):
Thats one of the "newer" NWA freighter, and just has been converted 2 years ago. I doubt that this is right, unless this airfranme has some specific problems. That aircraft is 23 years old, extremely young for a freighter to be retired.

Obviously would make sense to keep it in the system so long as the airframe is worthy then. Thanks!



Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
User currently offline0NEWAIR0 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 939 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2053 times:

Quoting Columba (Reply 13):
hope they will order some 747-8Is...

I don't think there will be a 748i order...but the 748F is quite possible and might already be in the works.



"The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams."
User currently offlineEBJ1248650 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1932 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2017 times:

Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 16):
Quoting Columba (Reply 13):
hope they will order some 747-8Is...

I don't think there will be a 748i order...but the 748F is quite possible and might already be in the works.

Is the 777 freighter a possibility for them? Do they need the additional cargo volume the 747 freighter provides?



Dare to dream; dream big!
User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10817 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2001 times:

Quoting EBJ1248650 (Reply 17):
Is the 777 freighter a possibility for them? Do they need the additional cargo volume the 747 freighter provides?

Otherwise they wouldn´t operate only 747s. Also NWA is not known for buying the most expensive aircraft available. And the 777F is very expensive. The 748F doesn´t cost that much more but offers far more room and fits a lot better into the fleet.


User currently offline0NEWAIR0 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 939 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1981 times:

NWA is going to a point to point network (just incase nobody has noticed) They will be focusing on 787, 757, A330 and planes of similar size and range performance.

CARGO...on the other hand will try and stick with 742 as long as possible because they are cheap to operate when they work. A 742 can make more money than a 744 if they have the same reliability rate. Before the whole mx strike issue Cargo was the most profitable fleet in the airline (sad...isn't it?!). Right now NWA thinks you need 4 engines to be successful in cargo...don't ask me why because I dont know the answer.



"The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams."
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6531 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1970 times:

Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 19):
NWA is going to a point to point network (just incase nobody has noticed) They will be focusing on 787, 757, A330 and planes of similar size and range performance.

Are you talking just about cargo? Because if you aren't, I have not noticed NWA going to a point to point network and I don't believe NWA has noticed it either. NWA firmly believes in the hub system (MSP,DTW,MEM,AMS,NRT) and a few focus cities (IND,MKE, etc)


User currently offlineNWAESC From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3403 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1960 times:

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 20):
Are you talking just about cargo? Because if you aren't, I have not noticed NWA going to a point to point network and I don't believe NWA has noticed it either. NWA firmly believes in the hub system (MSP,DTW,MEM,AMS,NRT) and a few focus cities (IND,MKE, etc)

Correct for the most part, though P2P routes have gone from almost zero to quite a few in the last few years (Heartland markets, Uppermidwest to FL, etc.).



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offline0NEWAIR0 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 939 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 months 3 days ago) and read 1945 times:

Cargo will basically stay the same as it is now in terms of route structure....pax, especially the new routes, will be more and more point-to-point. Believe it or not...


"The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams."
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6531 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1876 times:

Quoting NWAESC (Reply 21):
Correct for the most part, though P2P routes have gone from almost zero to quite a few in the last few years (Heartland markets, Uppermidwest to FL, etc.).

Most of those routes to Florida have disappeared except for IND. Same with the LAS flights. from the Heartland.


User currently onlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8762 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1848 times:

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 23):
Most of those routes to Florida have disappeared except for IND. Same with the LAS flights. from the Heartland.

Most crucially though, the days of using NRT as an Asia hub are numbered. Not gone -- but numbered. Things like ORD-PEK really remove the practicality of IND-DTW-NRT-PEK and the like. IND-ORD-PEK is better.

So, eventually NW will not want to use 744 on DTW-NRT or MSP-NRT. 787 will be fine, along with 787s to PVG, KIX, PEK, ICN, HKG. Otherwise, NW's Asia network will slowly die. They know they have to convert to a point-to-USA Asia network, or in some cases, point-to-point. Like in PDX or SEA, where China flights are likely necessary. And then there's India.


25 NWAESC : I know. However, there's still a couple (FNT-TPA and or MCO seasonally). For the Heartland, there's growing routes like MSN-DCA and DSM-LGA. Flown by
26 Coronado : With the current weak US$ NWA is comparatively speaking a low cost carrier compared to JAL and can exert all sorts of pricing pressure on JAL. They ha
27 Gigneil : IDK about that... I think, and I'm far from always right, but they will add DTW and MSP to the Far East flights via the 787, then bolster other major
28 Columba : I think the 747-8F offers more advantages for them. The 777F would be a new type but they already operate 747s.
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