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KLM To Go 2x Daily YYZ W/ B747/A332  
User currently offlineRicardoFG From Spain, joined Feb 2005, 677 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 4983 times:

Next year KLM will be adding 2 more frequencies to the AMS-YYZ-AMS routing as there will now be 14x weekly starting next spring 2008. Flights are already loaded into reservations, and indicates the late flight to be operated by Airbus A330-200 equipment.

[Edited 2007-10-18 22:55:56]

[Edited 2007-10-18 22:56:36]

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineRicardoFG From Spain, joined Feb 2005, 677 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 4979 times:

Sorry I forgot to add this will be starting Spring 2008.
BRGDS


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4513 posts, RR: 72
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 4900 times:

Your information is already outdated. KLM has recently decided to send the B772ER on all fourteen weekly frequencies to YYZ next year. The B744 that has traditionally been deployed to YYZ will be used to JFK, as a compensation for the cancellation of the third daily roundtrip. The A332 that was planned for the evening flights to YYZ will now go to IAD, which has seen B772ER this summer.

User currently offlineACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 7643 posts, RR: 35
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 4854 times:

Did KLM operate 2x daily out of YYZ in the '90s?


A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
User currently offline76er From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 567 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 4815 times:

Any chance the early flight could be a -300?

User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4513 posts, RR: 72
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 4784 times:

Quoting 76er (Reply 4):
Any chance the early flight could be a -300?

Not scheduled so far. The B77Ws are going to GRU, KIX and DXB according to the lastest information, although it would schedule wise be possible to interchange the DXB (KL427) and YYZ (KL691) flights. I'm pretty sure there will be further adjustments though, so this is by no means set in stone.


User currently offline76er From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 567 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 4761 times:

You're right. From what I understand the full pax 744 (KL691) is nearly always packed to the gills. That's why I was wondering about the -3.

User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4513 posts, RR: 72
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 4738 times:

Quoting 76er (Reply 6):
From what I understand the full pax 744 (KL691) is nearly always packed to the gills.

Although KLM is indeed hauling a lot of passengers on the YYZ route, the afternoon flight has regularly been downgraded to a combi B74E this summer because of the extra capacity with the new evening flight. I guess that the airline has decided that a double daily B772ER is an optimal configuration for YYZ.

Quoting 76er (Reply 6):
That's why I was wondering about the -3.

I would also expect that YYZ would be one of the prime candidates for the new B77W, and actually, I don't understand why the aircraft is being deployed to DXB and GRU during the northern summer season, when loads are lighter to those destinations and the usual B772ER would provide more than enough capacity. I'd have guessed that KLM would deploy the new aircraft to destinations like KIX, SFO, YYZ and JFK for the summer and GRU, CPT and DEL for the winter.


User currently offlinePnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2276 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 4496 times:

With the loads doing so well I have been wondering if Martinair will decide to step up. It looked nice to see so many 747 tails again at YYZ with BA, AF, KLM all in the other day. The freight that the two 777 will carry will be a big boon to KLM.

User currently offlineRicardoFG From Spain, joined Feb 2005, 677 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 4377 times:

Quoting Pnwtraveler (Reply 8):
With the loads doing so well I have been wondering if Martinair will decide to step up

MP will operate 4x AMS-YYZ weekly next year


User currently offlineMSYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 851 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 4355 times:

Any idea about the timing of the new twice daily flights ?


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User currently offlineHECA From Netherlands, joined Apr 2007, 232 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 month 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4096 times:
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Quoting MSYYZ (Reply 10):
Any idea about the timing of the new twice daily flights ?

Interested in taking KLM via AMS on your next visit to Egypt?  Wink


User currently offlineMSYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 851 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 month 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3881 times:

Quoting HECA (Reply 11):
Interested in taking KLM via AMS on your next visit to Egypt?

Indeed HECA , i haven't met anybody ( from my surrounding ) here in YYZ who flew KLM on his/her way to Egypt . Mainly because of the very lengthy transit time on the way from Canada to Egypt . The winners are : AF,LH,AZ and to some extent OA (because of the relatively low fares) .
2 X daily may mean less lay-over at AMS , and more options for the pax is always welcomed  Smile ,



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User currently offlineSSTsomeday From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 1276 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 month 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3842 times:

I wonder why AC can't manage a frequency to AMS, since KL and MP are increasing theirs? CP flew to AMS way before there was this much demand. If AC had a code-share with KL or was in the same alliance, I'd understand. I believe AC tried to carry it on for a while after CP was purchased but then they discontinued.


I come in peace
User currently offlineJamincan From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 776 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 month 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3697 times:

Isn't AMS primarily fueled by transiting passengers? I've always heard that it was a highly VFR route for AC.

User currently offlineMk777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1195 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 month 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3670 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 7):
I'd have guessed that KLM would deploy the new aircraft to destinations like KIX, SFO, YYZ and JFK for the summer and GRU, CPT and DEL for the winter.

so will DEL receive the 772ER or 744 this winter or will the route operate with an MD-11 (the sumer equipment)??

Isn't AMS-IAD for a few months in winter be flown with NW metal (A333)???



come fly with me
User currently offlineFlyyul From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4999 posts, RR: 51
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 month 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3661 times:

KLM has been flying the double daily already for a year, but the 2nd frequency was 5 weekly.

The second frequency now goes to daily. The seats balance year over year, because the 74Combi was flying 4 times a week last summer. So the 2 extra 777's weekly + the capacity increase of 772 vs Combi makes seats roughly equal to last year's offering.

I wonder what the cargo revenue impact will be as well.


User currently offlineJAGflyer From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 3568 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 month 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3620 times:

The YYZ-AMS-YYZ flights are mainly cnx pax. Most people on those flights are transiting to the Middle East, Africa and Asia. Toronto has a very large population from these countries and therefore the flights are very full.


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User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4513 posts, RR: 72
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 month 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3561 times:

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 15):
so will DEL receive the 772ER or 744 this winter or will the route operate with an MD-11 (the sumer equipment)??

AMS DEL goes B744 for the winter and MD11 for the summer.

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 15):
Isn't AMS-IAD for a few months in winter be flown with NW metal (A333)???

AMS IAD is being downgraded to A332 and it looks as if the B772ER will not return next winter as the A332 is programmed throughout the summer. For a while, NW was programmed to take over AMS IAD for 2 months, but this has been changed and NW will now operate AMS EWR between early January and the middle of March. The MD11 that KLM is freeing up at EWR will move to JFK and the B772ER from JFK to YYZ, allowing KLM to put one B744, from the YYZ route, through a D check.


User currently offlineSSTsomeday From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 1276 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 month 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3426 times:

Quoting Jamincan (Reply 14):
Isn't AMS primarily fueled by transiting passengers? I've always heard that it was a highly VFR route for AC.

(What does VRF mean in this context, since I've only understood it to me "Visual Flight Rules?)

I see your point about AMS being largely a transfer hub. The Dutch have, over the years, created a large airline and a large airport for a relatively small country. The Dutch have always taken aviation very seriously; I believe KL is about 80 years old; pretty much the oldest scheduled airline in the world. AMS is very efficient from what I understand, and a lot of trans-Atlantic passengers transfer there to points East. (I've used the airport several times, but not to transfer. My relatives live there.) I'm also impressed how KL managed to use their large fleet of 747s so well, even though they don't have the same demand of a LHR or and CDG or a FRA, by way of the "combi." It seems, since the advent of commerical aviation, the Dutch were determined to be players, and so they are.

So, thanks for answering my question of why AC can't seem to manage a YYZ-AMS flight. It's probably easier for KLM to operate flights from North America to AMS than for North American airlines to do so, because KLM passengers can transfer to an extensive KL network for their second leg. And AC being Star Alliance, there can be no cooperation for AC passengers to transfer to KL in AMS.



I come in peace
User currently offlineMSYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 851 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 month 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3359 times:

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 19):
(What does VRF mean in this context, since I've only understood it to me "Visual Flight Rules?)

It is VFR , Visiting Family and Relatives .



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User currently offlineJRadier From Netherlands, joined Sep 2004, 4714 posts, RR: 50
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 month 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3340 times:

Quoting JAGflyer (Reply 17):
The YYZ-AMS-YYZ flights are mainly cnx pax.

Don't forget the high level of VFR passengers on the AMS-YYZ-AMS route. There are a lot of dutch immigrants in the area.



For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25843 posts, RR: 22
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 month 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3191 times:

Quoting MSYYZ (Reply 20):
Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 19):
(What does VRF mean in this context, since I've only understood it to me "Visual Flight Rules?)

It is VFR , Visiting Family and Relatives .

The more usual definition is Visiting Friends and Relatives.


User currently offlineHECA From Netherlands, joined Apr 2007, 232 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 month 11 hours ago) and read 3052 times:
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Quoting MSYYZ (Reply 10):
Any idea about the timing of the new twice daily flights ?



Quoting MSYYZ (Reply 12):
2 X daily may mean less lay-over at AMS , and more options for the pax is always welcomed

According to Amadeus, the YYZ - CAI flights with KL via AMS look the following:
- KL 692 YYZ dep 18:05, arr AMS 07:15
- KL 696 YYZ dep 22:20, arr AMS 11:30
- KL 553 AMS dep 20:45, arr CAI 02:00

Conclusion: the lay-over between arrival and departure at AMS is still (too) long for convenient traveling.


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