Max78 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 19 posts, RR: 0 Posted (5 years 7 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2157 times:
We have heard lots of noise recently following A400M and B787 delays announcements (in forums, in the news, magazines, etc..) However, nothing really new !! i remember not too long ago the A380 , Eurofighter or worse.. the Nimrod !
I havent really seen any major AC program on time especially when these introduce either new technologies such as fly by wire, composites among others or new business models such as leveraging the role of suppliers into shared risk program, or the utilisation of multiple CAD/CAM software for the same AC and so on..
And I dont think we will be able to find more than 2 or 3 examples of civil AC delivered on time on quality on budget (maybe Falcon7X ?) and certainly none in the military world.
It is clear that Airbus and Boeing put lots of energy on changing that: they deploy new software, they launch Lots of new processes: Collaborative Design and Supply, Virtual Assembly, Lean Manufacturing, integrated planning ... But still we have seen recently on the B787 that "On time delivery" still fails and there is still a major impact for the manufacturer with penalties, cost explosion, stock drop ..
I am looking for your reaction on that subject and I am also trying to understand a couple of things like:
1- How much is the penalty given by customer to the manufacturer ? in civil/military
2-If this is not new for us, how does airbus' finance or boeing finance anticipate that ?
3-Is the same story going to repeat on the A350 ?!
Burkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4248 posts, RR: 2 Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2138 times:
As far as I learned, Boeing got the 777 out as planned, but I agree that one exception does not falsify a general rule.
AFAIK, the penalties are low in the military section - high penalties in the contract mean that the initial offer just will be more expensive. I also assume that some average penalties already are calculated into the list price, so unless things get really bad they pose no real problem.
The A350? Airbus has a long time to design and build it - 2013 still is far away. If Airbus uses the time until than, they may succeed, but if they don't do their home works now they will regret later - but how was it when we went to school?
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26713 posts, RR: 83 Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2135 times:
Quoting Max78 (Thread starter): 1- How much is the penalty given by customer to the manufacturer ? in civil/military
For a commercial program, it depends on the customer. I believe the only data we have if for QF and the A380, and it was less then $200 million, as I recall.
For a military program, at least in the US, there does not seem to be a penalty. The DoD just picks up the tab if the program is written to allow cost-overruns, and the company does if it does not.
Quoting Max78 (Thread starter): 2-If this is not new for us, how does airbus' finance or Boeing finance anticipate that?
They likely set aside money to cover the payments.
Quoting Max78 (Thread starter): 3-Is the same story going to repeat on the A350 ?!
I would not be surprised if it did, but that's just a reflection on how complex modern airliner programs are, and not a slap at Airbus. I would not be surprised if the 737RS program or the 787HGW/Y3 program slips, as well.
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From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 19 posts, 
, Eurofighter or worse.. the Nimrod !
From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4248 posts, 
From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26713 posts, 
From Australia, joined Sep 2005, 90 posts, 
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