Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
JAL And ANA To Fly To Taiwan Themselves  
User currently offlineSMOLT From Japan, joined Nov 1999, 280 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 2 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5396 times:

Reportedly JAL and ANA are to begin direct operation to Japan-Taiwan flights. These two companies have had to, for nothing but political reason toward the People's Republic of China(Communist China), use their disguised operator that is Japan Asia Airways(JAA) and Air Nippon(ANK) to fly to Taiwan. This is since 1972, when diplomatic relation was broken up between Japan and Taiwan as the result of established diplomacy exclusively between Japan and the People's Republic of China. JAA began its operation toward Taiwan in 1975, crew and staff sent from JAL, and Air Nippon in 1994 from ANA. The P.R of China is expected to tacitly admit this decision.

What is noticeable in this news is that JAA is, being an airline formed for the mere purpose of flying to Taiwan, to terminate its meaning for existence. If you are an ordinary airline enthusiast, you will lose some variety and an alternative for spotting.

reference data

JAA schedule this month (everyday basis)

NRT-Taipei 4 flights (744X2, 767X2)
NRT-Kaohsiung 1 flght (744)

KIX-Taipei 1 flight (767)

NGO-Taipei 1 flight(767)

24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8297 posts, RR: 26
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5379 times:

ANA has been operating the 73G to TPE from NGO for around a year now. The aircraft were not given ANK titles and have been in standard or gold ANA livery from the start. .


If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2980 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5332 times:

In reality there's not really much change spotting wise/aircraft color scheme because there is only one 743 Japan Asia left.
ANA just has to remove the very small Air Nippon titles off its 763ERs at the rear of the aircraft.

Flight crews are already drawn from their parent companies. The 73Gs are flown by Air Nippon crews anyways.

All it does is to remove some internal bureaucracy within both JL & NH groups, which should lead to cost improvements.

Quoting SMOLT (Thread starter):

There's two daily on KIX-TPE for EG. It has been double daily 747s for how many years but apparently one of the flights will switch to 763 soon if not already.


User currently offlineVincewy From Taiwan, joined Oct 2005, 767 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5174 times:

JAA has been flying to TPE with full JAL livery to TPE for a while, just go to TPE at night you'll see one park with JAL livery.

I actually didn't mind the way things worked out in the past, especially with CI and BR flying to HND, a MAJOR ADVANTAGE over other airlines.


User currently offlineCX flyboy From Hong Kong, joined exactly 15 years ago today! , 6642 posts, RR: 55
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5048 times:

All thats really noticeable with this I suspect will be the change of callsigns with little change to the aircraft actually seen.

User currently offlineSMOLT From Japan, joined Nov 1999, 280 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4996 times:

Thanks folks, I seem to need update. What was interesting was that several years ago JAL flights between Haneda-Kansai would often be operated by JAA 747 in its old scheme, first flight for the day being to Kansai, and final for the day to Haneda.


>Vincewy, how do you think of the fact that CI and BR was made to move to Narita, losing their advantage?
Now that China Eastern and Shanghai Airlines fly to Haneda, it seems to me as if the Taiwanese carrier had been deprived of their privileged slots at Haneda by the Continental China. When Haneda resumed international slots, some priority should have been placed on Taiwanese, I think.
On my private side, because my house is located below the dog leg of VOR RW22 approach for Haneda, I miss Dynasty....


User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 6100 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4809 times:

Kaohsiung is served exlsuively by JAL aircraft in JAL livery but with JAA's EG code, according to JL schedules, this service operating carrier is JAL since early this year.

Quoting SMOLT (Thread starter):
The P.R of China is expected to tacitly admit this decision.

About time China stopped this gimmik.


User currently offlineUpperDeck79 From Finland, joined Feb 2005, 1139 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4721 times:

I flew KIX-TPE-NRT on Air Nippon (outbound was code-share on EVA). I didn't get any miles on my SAS Eurobonus, since "Air Nippon is not part of Star Alliance", which was not so nice. However, JAA is part of oneworld.


AY and ANA rock!
User currently offlineB2443 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 703 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4707 times:

Quoting SMOLT (Reply 5):
how do you think of the fact that CI and BR was made to move to Narita, losing their advantage?
Now that China Eastern and Shanghai Airlines fly to Haneda, it seems to me as if the Taiwanese carrier had been deprived of their privileged slots at Haneda by the Continental China.

Oh, poor CI and BR....Why don't you share the facts that BR and CI started flying to NRT many years ago and FM/MY only started flying to Haneda THIS October and they are only charter flights? FM/MU flying to HND only came after an agreement between Japan, South Korea and China to establish daily flights between Kimpo, SHA and Haneda. Why does this have anything to do with CI and BR out of HND? I am sure BR and CI were told by the JAPANESE authority to fly to NRT now or HND previously. I am sure the Japanese authorities could have continued flying JAL to Taiwan. It was THEIR choice.


User currently offlineUpperDeck79 From Finland, joined Feb 2005, 1139 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4689 times:

Quoting SMOLT (Reply 5):
it seems to me as if the Taiwanese carrier had been deprived of their privileged slots at Haneda by the Continental China

It's not the same thing. The Chinese carriers cannot fly PVG-HND so they cannot get transfer pax for instance LAX-PVG-HND. They fly SHA-HND, which is from a domestic airport to a domestic airport, the same way that GMP-HND works.



AY and ANA rock!
User currently offlineANother From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4687 times:

I remember, years ago - maybe 1982/3 - a Pan Am delegate at a meeting saying:

"There is only one China, and Pan Am flies to both of them!"

Well - now there still is only one China, and lots of airlines fly to three of them (PRC, HKG SAR, Taiwan). Does anyone fly to all four (the above plus Macau SAR)


User currently offlineQatarA340 From Qatar, joined May 2006, 1883 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4677 times:

Im confused. Isnt Taiwan a country? and what does China have to do with Taiwan to restrict its airspace?


لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4635 times:

I never understood that "Japan Asia" nonsense..both UA and NW fly to TPE and Mainland China..it just seemed like needless pandering

User currently offlineCaspritz78 From Germany, joined Aug 2007, 518 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4599 times:

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 11):
Im confused. Isnt Taiwan a country? and what does China have to do with Taiwan to restrict its airspace?

There was a time, when an airline that flew to Taiwan could loose their right to fly to the People's Republic of China. That's why there are such airlines like KLM Asia. POC sees Taiwan as a part of it and does not accept the Democratic Republic of China (Taiwan) and sometimes refuses diplomatic connections to countries that official accept the Democratic Republic of China.


User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 6100 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4596 times:

Quoting ANother (Reply 10):
Does anyone fly to all four (the above plus Macau SAR)

Malaysia Airlines restart Macau from November.


User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8044 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4533 times:

What was so interesting about Japan Asia Airways was it actually turned into a HUGE moneymaker for its parent airline (JL). The reason was simple: there is huge amount of air traffic between Taiwan and Japan, and that made flights on JAA hard to book almost year-round.

User currently offlineElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1545 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4529 times:

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 11):
Im confused. Isnt Taiwan a country? and what does China have to do with Taiwan to restrict its airspace?

Taiwan is defacto independent, but de jure China. China claims Taiwan as part of its territory, and considers it a renegade territory In fact, Taiwan is China, their full name is the Republic of China.

Legally they are part of China, but for all intents and purposes they are independent. That said they don't have representation in the United Nations, and most countries have "either or" representation from China, meaning that most countries will recognize either The People's Republic of China or the Republic of China, mostly for economic reasons. (I believer it was Burkina Faso that switched its representative from Taiwan to China for a boatload of aid).

Whenever the PR China delegation arrives in Washington, the Taiwanese mission closes up shop, and the Chinese pretend that they don't know what's going on. A very interesting game they play.


User currently offlineTrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4883 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 months 2 days ago) and read 4462 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting B2443 (Reply 8):
I am sure the Japanese authorities could have continued flying JAL to Taiwan. It was THEIR choice.

yep, the Thais, Malaysians, Singaporeans, Filipinos, HongKongese all told Beijing to get stuffed in the 70s when Beijing wanted people to stop flying to Taiwan if they wanted to come to mainalnd China but the Japanese kowtowed to Beijing.Of course the Koreans in the 90s were the biggest kowtowers to Beijing as they upset Taipei so much it took till a few years ago to re establish flights between their carriers and Taiwan and Korea! The Europeans, Canadians and Aussies were right up there with the Japanese kowtowing too.

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 16):
Taiwan is defacto independent, but de jure China. China claims Taiwan as part of its territory, and considers it a renegade territory In fact, Taiwan is China, their full name is the Republic of China.

Since the mid 17th century Taiwan has been considered a part of China except for most of the first half of the 20th century when it was a Japanese colony. When the Qing emperors got booted out of power on mainland China in 1911, the Republic of China was founded. The communist booted the ROC government out in 49 and founded the People's Republic of China (PRC) and the Nationalist party run ROC government went into exile to Taiwan and have been there since. Till 1972, the UN recognized the ROC government in Taipei as the Chinese government and the ROC government held the permanent seat on the security council as it was the ROC government during WW2 which was considered part of the victorious Allies. The PRC has never for one second in its history ever ruled the Chinese province of Taiwan.

[Edited 2007-10-27 11:22:13]

User currently offlineFlyboyOz From Australia, joined Nov 2000, 1994 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3938 times:

Yes, I saw a Japan Asia B747-300 flew to SYD and BNE. JAL sometimes changed their aircraft (including Japan Asia's) for Australia. I thought Japan Asia are supposed to fly to Taiwan not in Australia.


The Spirit of AustraliAN - Longreach
User currently offlineJe89_w From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 2362 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3869 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Quoting FlyboyOz (Reply 18):
Yes, I saw a Japan Asia B747-300 flew to SYD and BNE. JAL sometimes changed their aircraft (including Japan Asia's) for Australia. I thought Japan Asia are supposed to fly to Taiwan not in Australia.

JA8185 replaced JA8130, and both aircraft have the international configuration (former JAL liveries) which is why they flew other routes besides TPE. JA8189 however, is configured in a way where it only flies the Japan-Taiwan routes.

Does that mean JA8185 and JA8189 will both be painted back to the JAL livery? I hope not!


User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5620 posts, RR: 51
Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3842 times:

Quoting Je89_w (Reply 19):

Does that mean JA8185 and JA8189 will both be painted back to the JAL livery? I hope not!

Now that you mention it...there's not a single JAA 744 photo on the A.net database...

BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 6100 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3649 times:

KLM should also do way with their KLM Asia brand since it will only leav ethem with this stupid setup, all others Australia-Asia(wore Qantas basic livery), Swissair Asia, Air France Asie and British Asia Airways are history.

Why did Japan give into this when no other Asian carrier did.


User currently offlineAnalog From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 1900 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 months 16 hours ago) and read 3495 times:

Quoting Caspritz78 (Reply 13):

There was a time, when an airline that flew to Taiwan could loose their right to fly to the People's Republic of China.

Did that ever happen?

Quoting Caspritz78 (Reply 13):
Democratic Republic of China (Taiwan)

That would be democratic Republic of China; it may be democratic, but "Democratic" is not part of the name.

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 16):

Taiwan is defacto independent, but de jure China. China claims Taiwan as part of its territory, and considers it a renegade territory In fact, Taiwan is China, their full name is the Republic of China.

Taiwan recently eliminated the parliamentary "representatives" from the mainland.  Smile

The PRC are the renegades, or was the Long March just a nice stroll?


User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2980 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 months 15 hours ago) and read 3465 times:

Quoting Je89_w (Reply 19):
Does that mean JA8185 and JA8189 will both be painted back to the JAL livery? I hope not!

Since JA8189 has left the JL group, it would be almost impossible.

Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 9):
The Chinese carriers cannot fly PVG-HND so they cannot get transfer pax for instance LAX-PVG-HND.

Correct.
However, this could change when the fourth runway opens in around 2010. It appears the Japanese Ministry of Transport is heading toward a perimeter rule for int'l flights.

Quoting B2443 (Reply 8):
Oh, poor CI and BR....

Which, early studies have set at the longest domestic flight possible from HND. This happens to be Haneda to Ishigaki Island. This leaves Taiwan outside the perimeter but parts of eastern China such as Shanghai within the perimeter.


User currently offlineTrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4883 posts, RR: 14
Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 months 3 hours ago) and read 3261 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Analog (Reply 22):
Quoting Caspritz78 (Reply 13):
There was a time, when an airline that flew to Taiwan could loose their right to fly to the People's Republic of China.
Did that ever happen?

thats exactly why JL started EG, they were operating to Taiwan already when they wanted to go to PRC and had to start EG or Beijing would not let them go to the PRC. AFAIK the other carriers who subsequently started "Taiwan" subsidiaries - the Euro airlines/Qantas etc, were not already flying to either Taiwan or PRC when they agreed to this PRC blackmail but wanted to fly to the PRC and so set up their subsidiaries to allow operations to both places. CX and Hong Kong were in a different playing field given the incredible number of flights between TPE and HKG and the unusual relationship between HK and UK and other countries over flying rights but BA had to start a subsidiary to fly from the UK to Taiwan. The other east asian countries who wanted flights to PRC in the 70s, 80s surprisingly (except for Singapore which was still getting half its military trained in Taiwan) held their ground against pressure from Beijing as they had more traffic at the time to Taiwan than the mainland.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
JAL Or ANA To Denver (DEN)? posted Wed Aug 22 2001 06:28:00 by BA
JAL And ANA 777-300ERs posted Fri Jan 20 2006 02:26:26 by Kaitak744
Need Info On SkyWest, JAL, And ANA posted Tue Dec 6 2005 01:27:41 by Aznjapken
JAL And ANA Stagnant Network posted Sun Jul 18 2004 10:30:25 by Airmale
United And ANA Both Codeshare To Kota Kinabalu posted Wed Dec 27 2006 20:20:26 by Jimyvr
Singapore And ANA's Return To ORD posted Tue Feb 19 2002 23:53:16 by CactusA319
Reuters: JAL And JAS To Merge posted Sun Nov 11 2001 19:16:46 by B757300
JAL And JAS To Merge? posted Sun Nov 11 2001 15:59:03 by ContinentalEWR
EF And GE Given Permission To Fly To Japan posted Mon Oct 22 2007 23:46:40 by BRxxx
JAL Moving From SVO To DME In Moscow posted Tue Sep 4 2007 20:46:22 by Viscount724