DALCE From Netherlands, joined Feb 2007, 1596 posts, RR: 7 Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 20715 times:
Unbelievable! How on earth is it possible after all the SK Q400's got checked.
Will SK ground them again?
Fortunately everbody is ok, but how long will this continue to go on?
flown on : F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,E75,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,753,744,319,320,321,333,AB6.
B747forever From United States of America, joined May 2007, 16591 posts, RR: 11 Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 20693 times:
B747forever From United States of America, joined May 2007, 16591 posts, RR: 11 Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 20648 times:
B747forever From United States of America, joined May 2007, 16591 posts, RR: 11 Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 20616 times:
Looking at Kastrups website, and it seems that SAS has cancelled all their Q400s flights, right???
B747forever From United States of America, joined May 2007, 16591 posts, RR: 11 Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 20548 times:
Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 7): This seems like a SAS problem more than a DH4 problem
Seems so, because any other Q400 operators dont have any of this problem.
Cedars747 From Norway, joined Dec 2005, 2716 posts, RR: 23 Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 20506 times:
From SAS website
SAS operates on a full traffic program
Our Dash 8/Q400 aircraft have been inspected, tested and approved by the authorities and are now returning to normal operation. However, a small number of flights will be operated by other airlines for the time being.
SAS regrets any inconveniences caused by the cancellations from the 12th of September to the 14th of October.
Just amazing,. Wonder what will happen to the Q400s now???
I hope they sell them...
The problem is getting suitable replacement aircraft within a reasonable time.
However I can see SAS now will demand an even bigger compensation from Bombardier after they have sold SAS a crap product and I can definately see this ending up in court
B747forever From United States of America, joined May 2007, 16591 posts, RR: 11 Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 20504 times:
Quoting SlovakFlight (Reply 10): Swedish paper Aftonbladet reports that SAS will ground all their Q400s again...
They must ground them, otherwise nobody wants to fly with them.
B747forever From United States of America, joined May 2007, 16591 posts, RR: 11 Reply 14, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 20463 times:
B747forever From United States of America, joined May 2007, 16591 posts, RR: 11 Reply 17, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 20322 times:
Quoting Maersk737 (Reply 16): All SAS Q400 are grounded by the authorities once again
Wonder how long they will stay grounded this time??
Flyboy_se From Switzerland, joined Feb 2000, 745 posts, RR: 6 Reply 19, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 20269 times:
Not good news for SK at all. Seems both their pocket and reputation is hit really bad.
I cant see them keeping those planes after this. The pax will refuse to fly on them.
All the best for SK
B747forever From United States of America, joined May 2007, 16591 posts, RR: 11 Reply 21, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 20235 times:
Wonder what SAS will replace the Q400s with, if the retire them???
OA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 25108 posts, RR: 60 Reply 22, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 20235 times:
This is crazy SAS need to ground all of these and get rid of them . It ruining SAS reputation. People will not fly them where they are using these AC!!!
OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ "Η ΕΛΛΑΔΑ ΨΗΛΑ" "GREECE FLYING HIGH"
26 B747forever: The A318 sounds really good. But I doubt it. The CRJs would be a option
27 Flyboy_se: No they dont want that.They need a completely new type in their fleet, they should go for some 777 with few 380 just for the sake of it and then end
28 EBGflyer: CPH announcement of flight interruptions: http://www.cph.dk/CPH/UK/MAIN/[Edited 2007-10-27 09:26:52]
29 B747forever: Doesn't work,. What does CPH say???
30 Bennett123: The DHC8-400 seats roughly 70, the A318 roughly 100. It is probably too big.
31 KPDX: I agree, no other DH4 operators are having the problem.........
32 B747forever: That is true. Has mentioned that also, look reply # 9.
33 EBGflyer: "The DHC8-400 seats roughly 70, the A318 roughly 100. It is probably too big." I know, but a lot of the routes where the DH4 is(was) operated needs mo
34 AirPacific747: Wasn't there a German Dash 8 that had problems witth the landing gear a few weeks ago also? And an ANA Dash 8 last year that also had problems with t
35 B747forever: It was in MUC. Now I remember. That is true. Maybe it is not SAS fault. But something bother me, and it is that this happens SAS so often and not oth
36 AirPacific747: Again, then why doesn't it happen to any other aircraft type in SAS' fleet?
38 Birka340: If I remember correct SAS was the launch customer for the Q400. Did SAS receive all the first produced which means the fleet from SAS has been in traf
39 Aleksandar: And the whole story repeats just twelve days after that. Well, I didn't believe that those September incidents would seriously affect Q400 program, b
40 EBGflyer: Press release from SAS: 2007-10-27 Regarding Scandinavian Airlines flight SK 2867 Scandinavian Airlines regrets to confirm that one of its aircraft, a
41 BrianDromey: Hmmmmmmm, I think it is pretty safe to say that teh Q400 is finished with SAS, not that it has ever been a match made in heaven, from day one SAS had
42 Navigator: This statement is more than crap. All incidents are mechanically and technically related. And SAS has the oldest Q400:s. Nothig yet indicates SAS is
43 EBGflyer: They already have A319 and A321's. A318 can land at airports with shorter runways such as London City. The 736 can't.. and it's an older type![Edited
44 B747forever: Holy God, two infants in that flight. Good that everything went well with this and everybody else.
45 Zimme: LN-RDK in AAL was delivered to SAS on 07-10-2000. LN-RDS in VNO was delivered to SAS on 31-01-2001. This one, LN-RDI, is the oldest of the three - de
47 B747forever: I feel really scare when I see this. It is just horrible.
48 EBGflyer: I just saw the landing, gear collapse and evac on the news. I believe it happened on runway 04R (also as shown in the picture in reply 46) Will try to
49 FlyUSCG: Actually not really. He answered his own question with his question. Different "types". Just because the Dash has gear problems doesn't mean every Bo
50 Navigator: All SAS Q400:s stay on ground from now according to the airline. SAS crews are cited saying they don´t want to fly this type anymore. SAS pilots call
51 Navigator: It is crap because facts show SAS is not at fault. All accidents have been investigated and the parts in the gear that are the problem were not part
52 B747forever: This has to be the end for the Q400s in SAS fleet.
53 Navigator: Video from the crash http://wwwc.aftonbladet.se/atv2/popu...09&category=nyheter&commercial=yes
54 Zimme: The preliminary report from the Danish Accident Investigation Board for Civil Aviation regarding the AAL incident shows the actuator at fault which B
55 AirPacific747: Yes, but why would SAS be sloppy about maintaining the Q400 and not the rest of their aircraft? Makes no sense. I think this must be Bombardier's fau
56 Navigator: Yes from reading the reports you know SAS has no part in this serious Bombardier problem. Look at the video how well the SAS pilots takes down the cr
57 PHKLM: The right-hand landing gear on a SAS Dash4-Q800. Déja-vu, anyone?
58 797charter: Video - again it is the right gear not down: http://jp.dk/webtv/webtv_indland/?movieId=14298&Id=1145841
59 B747forever: You have right. A really great job by the pilots. :D
60 EXTspotter: Other airlines with larger numbers of Q400s and of a similar age haven't had the problems... Flybe: 32 Q400s, oldest delivered 19-10-01 Horizon Airlin
61 B747forever: Does this airlines have their oldest Q400s still in service. ???
62 Dahlgardo: If the gear was not down, it wasn't a gear collapse, which means it was another type of malfunction than in the previous 2 crashes. Could it possibly
63 Maersk737: Maybe these Q400' don't have as many starts and landings, as SAS' Q400' ? Cheers Peter[Edited 2007-10-27 11:14:54]
64 Navigator: Number of cycles and hours is what is most interesting. You have any such information? And how do you know these airlines have had no problems with t
65 EGNR: Well, they are getting a lot of practise Is the SK Dash 8 fleet based at CPH? With CPH being so close to the sea, could it be the salt in the sea air
66 T prop: SAS had all the parts that caused problems in the last incidents replaced with new. Whats going on this time? http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...d
67 Lufthansa747: I hate SK for their current P-class euro concept. But what does this have to do with SK?? Swedish report shows no co-operation from Bombardier, etc. Q
68 B747forever: That was not a bad thought. I may have right.
70 Navigator: The gear problems has happened with planes based in CPH, yes. And the ones based in Stockholm have had other problems like engine failures but no gea
71 Rampkontroler: There was another Q400 gear collapse I haven't seen mentioned in these threads yet, Jeju Air in S. Korea, this was a left gear this time: http://aviat
72 Mika: I said it after the second incident and now i am really getting a feeling that more than anything else this is sabotage within the SAS organisation. H
73 B747forever: Has not heard about this. Thank you for posting. This seems not just happening the SAS Q400s. So not SAS fault.
74 Navigator: " target=_blank>http://aviation-safety.net/database/...812-0 This shows this is a Bombardier problem and nothing else. Maybe even Flybe and others wou
75 F9Animal: It was indeed a great job by the flight crew. I am saddened to see this has happened again. There is obviously something going on with the landing ge
76 Mika: If this had happened one time..then yes, certainly that would be true. But three times in a short span of time? And after the parts that caused the p
77 B747forever: I doubt t hat SAS wants their Q400s anymore, and absolutely not the pax. The Q400s has done much hurt to SAS.
78 DHHornet: SAS = I love the Q400 but this is all very strange. The ATR 72-500 is the only other obvious replacement and (long wait) if they go down that route. A
79 Alessandro: Isn´t this the 6th landinggear problem for the Q400 this year, 3 SAS, 1 Augsburg, 1 ANA and one in South Korea?
80 B747forever: Wasn't the ANA accident last year???
81 Navigator: The part of the gear that lead to the collapses was not part of any maintenance program. So SAS or any other airline could not find the problem. I th
82 Lufthansa747: As I said above, SK has had their share of service problems. I still have full confidence to SK Group safety. Some of you are saying Scandinavian pax
84 Legoguy: Could this be sabotage? Three accidents for one airline within such a short space of time is worrying. Or perhaps its the cold Scandinavian weather ef
85 Maersk737: Please, lets keep to facts instead of fiction, shall we ? Cheers Peter
87 LTU932: There is the rumour that SK is considering the SSJ100 as a replacement. Yes, it involved an IQ Q400 at MUC. One question: why did they run the number
88 JAGflyer: I think the Baltic salt is getting on the landing gear and corroding important bolts. Maybe they should go to a different material for the landing gea
89 Moriarty: Again?!? After all SAS went through... I feel sorry for them. It can't just be bad handling. No matter reasons, this is really bad for SAS.
90 Legoguy: To limit the damage caused by the propellor hitting the ground I imagine. Although I am not sure if the engine is off or whether the propellor is fea
91 Maersk737: And the salt is only having an affect on the Q400 ??? But of course the salty winds, could be player in all these strange events. Cheers Peter
92 Navigator: This is todays understatement! "Some issues..." The problems with the Q400 are far vorse than anything I have heard of in modern aviation when it com
93 B747forever: That would be strange. This is just what we think and guess. We will see when they has investigate all this accidents.
94 Mika: Until proven otherwise; what i said is not fiction, merely a theory of mine. Although i want to put a little bit of reservation into it as i know wha
95 Rbgso: I wonder how quickly the SSJ-100 could be delivered if they indeed are seriously looking at it as a replacement. Something is not right here, and we d
96 Aeronut: I think you should clarify your last statement... The problems with the Q400 at SAS are far vorse than anything I have heard of in modern aviation wh
97 Navigator: There may be a lot of problems with SAS but I still think you should read reports on previous accidents before jumping on conclusions... Do not just
98 RIXrat: I can't understand all this talk about salt, humidity and salty winds, that some posters keep mentioning as a possible cause of this corrosion. CPH is
99 Mika: You're getting me all wrong here..i am not trying to blame SAS just for the sake of it..i am a Swede (and finn) myself and i would not want anything
100 RobK: SAS should be taking Bombardier to court right now... Their aircraft clearly have issues. I'm sure in addition to the other 6 incidents, there was a p
101 Navigator: I have never heard of anything worse when it comes to serious faults in flight in modern types. Air speed indicator failures, engine failures, gear c
102 Maersk737: Starting with this accident ? The investigators haven't found any sabotage, in all of the previous accidents and countless incidents..... Cheers Pete
103 B747forever: Why would SAS want to sabotage their Q400s???
105 Aeronut: I don't think you get it! I do not know of a case where ONE AIRLINE has had so many problems with ONE modern type of aircraft. FLYBE and HORIZON for
106 Legoguy: SAS wouldn't want to sabotage their aircraft... but a cheesed off mechanic of SAS could have a motive. It could take only one person to sabotage an a
107 BrianDromey: Yes, BUT the best 318 engine (and SAS tends to order the best combo ranter than whats already in the fleet) is the P&W, which has no commonality at a
108 B747forever: Okey, I see. That is actually true and really sad. Wonder if it is sabotage. But I doubt it still. Hmmm, that is another guessing. Maybe it is true.
109 Viscount724: The title of this thread should be corrected. The gear can't collapse if it wasn't extended in the first place. This appears to be a very different ty
110 Johnnybgoode: though a landing gear accident, it is not connected with the incidents experienced by SK - SK experiences those incidents due to corrosion found in t
111 Legacy135: To blame SAS for this series of problems seems to me a pretty simple answer to a growing problem, an answer that is just to simple to be correct. The
112 Aleksandar: I doubt that. These are not 1960s to replace props with jets. Those planes were bought in order to cut down costs. It might be the case, but SAS was
113 EXTspotter: There was but it wasn't to do with the landing gear failing to deploy, if I remember right, it was a wheel falling off the left undercarriage. It hap
114 SKAirbus: Hi, This is my first post!! Anyway... Well first of all... The Baltic sea / Kattegat has very low salt levels, which means that this would not have an
115 Teme82: Is it just me or is that the same side landing gear that collapsed in those too other SK Dash's??
116 SKAirbus: Yes that is correct... right hand landing gear. It could be a coincidence or maybe a construction fault.. The cause of the first 2 accidents were att
117 EBGflyer: No, it's not you. It's the right landing gear in all 3 gear collapse incidents.
118 Drgmobile: I find all these comments about "it obviously is Bombardier's fault" rather ridiculous. Do you have know idea what the problem is. The reality is that
119 AirPacific747: Perhaps, but: - SAS operates the oldest Dash 8 aircraft around - Augsburg Airways had a few weeks ago a similar problem with one of their Dash 8 airc
120 SKAirbus: Yes the Q400 seems to be having more landing gear problems than the average airliner.. also i wonder if Bombardier will investigate this? But even if
121 CEO@AFG: To clarify some of the statements given above, I find it prudent to summarize the various gear related incidents the Q400 has racked up so far: 12Marc
122 SKAirbus: Thanks for that summary!! I'm sure SAS' Dash 8s wont be flying for a long time. Not until the Danish government and SAS are 150% sure these aircraft a
123 BrianDromey: I do seem to remember that on a flyBe thread there were AWFUL reports of dispatch reliability of the Q400, comments like (from memory) "everything is
124 CEO@AFG: While SAS has operated a wide variety of aircraft, they haven't operated the Fokker 70 (I think you mean the F28), neither the B707 (they did fly the
125 Rampkontroler: " target=_blank>http://aviation-safety.net/database/...812-0 Well, if he ran off the runway and THEN the gear collapsed, that seems entirely another m
126 Viscount724: If flybe was that unhappy with their first Q400s, I doubt they would have ordered another 15 (with 15 more options) a few months ago to add to their
127 Scalebuilder: Let me correct you- all of Scandinavia now hates the Q400 (including Scandinavians living abroad). It will be a major PR problem for SAS to continue
128 Danny: I remember about a year ago concerns were raised about quality of maintenance at SAS. At the time it related to A330/340s. Fact is no other operators
129 SKAirbus: Didn't the Danish government rule out SAS being to blame for the accidents in AAL and Lithuania? Or is this investigation still ongoing?... Of course
130 Doug_Or: That was my reaction. Synopsis implies that is what happened. Anyone know more? Narrative: The DHC-8 landed on either unway 18L or 18R and went off t
131 UA_727: Good grief, this **really** concerns me. I personally am a huge advocate of the Q-400 product, both from a business and customer perspective. This has
132 LAXspotter: This is surprising, what is Bombardier doing about this?
133 Hightower: It's too bad for SK with their current status as an airline just keeping above the deep waters, but I sure wouldn't fly 'em if i saw that q400 at the
134 Scalebuilder: Likely you're wrong (though I can't prove it). SAS maintenance is admired, and worldwide, and should it be so that this part has anything to do with
135 Acjazzame: Just Curious, does SAS maintain any other turboprops right now? How long was the F50 in operation with them?
136 LAXspotter: looks like anet is still screwing up, you quoted Hightower but its said you quoted me , It probably is Bombardier's fault.
137 Czbbflier: This is really distressing. IMO Dehavilland Canada has an excellent reputation... and so has SAS. It appears that after the last series of collapses,
138 Baron52ta: That would be DHC8-400(Q400) to all referring the them as DH4 but as to no one else having the gear problems, when the last SAS Q4 collapsed there wa
139 Alias1024: I doubt this is the same issue. The problem on the first two gear failures was that the gear was coming down too quickly. The gear retract actuator i
140 Francoflier: Funny how it strikes me that an unappropriate or flawed fix to the first issue you mention could easily lead to the latter... I hate to speculate on
141 Teme82: Thanks. It makes me wonder why the problem has been the right side. Only thing that I can Imagine are design fault on the structure or wrong material
142 Someone83: SAS still has and uses the F50. SAS Norway has 6 F50 and their fleet and partially owned Air Baltic also have a few of them and AFAIK most of them ar
143 BrianDromey: Ah, right. Sorry about that! My history with SAS aircraft is somewhat blurry, but it seems like they have operated a few of almost every aircraft eve
144 SKAirbus: Am i the only one who thinks Bombardier hasn't given an adequate response to the Dash 8 incidents?? I mean the Dash 8 seems to have landing gear probl
145 Cainanuk: Also small delays at MAN become long delays at MAN because not all of the engineers are Q4 qualified as they are the ex BA guys. Little stuff, no big
146 B747forever: Think you have wrong. QF has put a order for the Q400. But they did it before this accident, right???
147 SKAirbus: Yes i think they did but maybe when the results official results of the accident enquiries emerge, they might change their minds or even delay the or
148 Jog: I did not know how lucky we were that our landing gear problem on a flight CPH-AAR were the other way around a year ago (23-10-2006). The captain cou
149 B747forever: I will not avoid to fly the Q400s, but I will avoid to fly SKs Q400s.
150 SKAirbus: Well although SAS has suffered the most problems with the Q400, Augsburg Airways and ANA have both had gear related accidents not to mention the acci
151 CPH757: To some extend do I, although you have to remember that the investigation from the first incident in AAL, clearly points out that the problem was cau
152 Loalq: Reminds me of TAM issue with the F100 -- the only operator to have such. They ended up with such a bad reputation in Brazil that TAM suffered a big pr
153 SKAirbus: Well i think it will take a lot more than the authorities before i get on one again.. although i dont normally fly on them... Give me a maddog or Air
154 Mortyman: Danish SAS employes is considering quitting their jobs now... 57 cancelleations today SAS looses 10 million NOK pr day on this DASH 8 incident and the
155 B747forever: Hmmm, the Q400s seems not 100% safe. It is something going on, but I wonder what??? This is just so sad. SAS will loose really much money now.
156 SKAirbus: Yes indeed.... SAS has been part of my life since i was a child. My aunt worked for SAS for 30 years at TRD and i am applying for a job with SAS Grou
157 Claude: i hope nobody was injured.... (for joking) SAS should buy ATRs i'm sure they could get a good price on these days
158 B747forever: Really hope so. That would be good for SAS. But SAS has now been well-known about accidents. That is not good at all.
159 OV735: While exceptionally well-trained and professional, for some reason the SAS employees always seem a little prone to stab their employer in the back (e
160 SKAirbus: --Update-- A story published by Jyllands Posten today says that the accident investigators of yesterday's incident at CPH think that another failure c
161 CXfirst: SAS Dumps All Dash 8Q400s! (by CEO@AFG Oct 28 2007 in Civil Aviation) Seems, SAS has decided what to do... -CXfirst
162 Alessandro: They will return them to Bombardier along with the lawyers and sueing bill...
163 PanAm1971: I'm disturbed SAS seems to be the only ones having problems with the aircraft. That is not an accusation... just an observation. Perhaps going over-on
164 Alessandro: PanAm, haven´t you heard of the other crashlandings? 8 all in all in 3 years.
165 VonRichtofen: Who cares, half of them would go on strike every 3 months anyway. This will be a good thing if they quit. Then SAS can hire people who are actually w
166 Maersk737: And this "problem" with the staff, has only influence on the Q400's ????? Cheers Peter
168 B747forever: This has happened in MUC and with ANA and in South Korea. It is not just happening SAS.
169 JAGflyer: Yes, because the Q400s are used to fly into the more "remote" areas which are closer to the baltic sea and this is where the salt comes from. Of cour
170 Mortyman: The route Oslo - Copenhagen can hardly be called remote The last DASH 8 that crashed came from Bergen in Norway to Copenhagen. All of these airports
171 RIXrat: How many posts does it take to convince someone that the Baltic Sea had nothing to do with the two crash-landings before this latest one. The Baltic
172 Navyst: Hello Do we know how many Q400 are in service worldwide? Would somone point to me a site with the list of airlines having these aircraft on their flee
173 Aeronut: Is this for the latest accident, and can you list the link for this finding?
174 Mortyman: The a/c data sheet on this site says : Total Q400 firm sales at late 1998 stood at 34. First deliveries planned for the first quarter of 1999. This i
175 AirPacific747: That's very interesting indeed! Would be great to see some sources.. I'll try to see if I can find some myself Or perhaps this is Canada's revenge
176 RIXrat: We don't yet know the cause of the third one. That is why I particularly excluded it. Read my post again -- I say TWO crash landings and not THREE.
177 Tdscanuck: List of airlines: http://www.q400.com/q400/en/operators.jsp Total in service: 140 as of March 2007 (more today, I'm sure) http://www.q400.com/q400/en
178 Zvocio79: I work on DSC-8, 100, 200 ans 300 and they kicked some ass....there must be an engineering problem.
179 Bennett123: I am sceptical about the sabotage theory. If someone wanted to damage an aircraft, then there are many parts that could be damaged. Even to someone no
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