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DL Ending JFK-MHT  
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32176 posts, RR: 72
Posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5467 times:

Not that very many will care, but still...

http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll...71024/NEWS0201/71024060/-1/CITIZEN


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48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8200 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5410 times:

MHT ain't the international feeder city they hoped.

Instead, MHT-LGA is mostly local traffic.... JFK would suffer versus that.


User currently offlineRcardinale From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 190 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5375 times:

What type of planes were used on this route i'm assuming props. With this drop in service Delta still has a somewhat large presence in MHT

User currently offlineBatonOps From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 741 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5328 times:

Quoting Rcardinale (Reply 2):
What type of planes were used on this route i'm assuming props.

No props on that route. One flight was a CRJ the other was an ERJ.


User currently offlineJawake From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 257 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5275 times:

I wonder if this has anything to do with the FAA putting pressure on the airlines to reduce flights in and out of JFK. I wonder if we will begin to see other announcements of cuts out of JFK by DL.

I am sure it was not the only reason, but a factor. Too bad for MHT.


User currently offline1MillionFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5247 times:

That's too bad, MHT deserves a JFK link at least seasonally.

Lake Winnepessakee (sp?) is a great summer vacation spot.


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6477 posts, RR: 24
Reply 6, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5182 times:

DL is also axing TRI-MCO, JFK-PBI and MIA-LGA. DL will add an additional frequency on LGA-PBI and MIA-JFK.

User currently offlineRcardinale From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 190 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5119 times:

WOW JFK-PBI is a large market I wonder how big of a part B6 played in this decision

User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5107 times:

JFKPBI is not near as lucrative as LGAPBI. There isn't a whole lot of international flow traffic to PBI, esp. that cannot be duplicated over MCO. I suspect DL is more interested in having two strong markets than having a four elatively weak markets. I'm actually pleased to see that DL has made JFKMIA work.. that's a pretty significant accomplishment against AA.

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32176 posts, RR: 72
Reply 9, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5082 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 8):
I'm actually pleased to see that DL has made JFKMIA work.. that's a pretty significant accomplishment against AA.

They carry a lot of through traffic to Europe. Berlin, Kiev, and Istanbul are especially popular connecting destinations. The new JFK flight is also timed to connect to/from Europe like the current one. They only leave about 2 hours apart, IIRC.



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User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5069 times:

Agree... but neither flight could work if they didn't carry a fair amount of Latin traffic. Either you or I can look it up from DOT data but I think there are many months in the winter when the flight exists based on local traffic.

User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5060 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 6):
DL is also axing TRI-MCO

I'm actually surprised they even offered this route. I guess this was to compete against G4 and their SFB-TRI service?


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32176 posts, RR: 72
Reply 12, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5031 times:

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 11):
Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 6):
DL is also axing TRI-MCO

I'm actually surprised they even offered this route. I guess this was to compete against G4 and their SFB-TRI service?

IIRC, they started TRI-MCO before Allegiant was ever on TRI-SFB.



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User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6477 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5020 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
The new JFK flight is also timed to connect to/from Europe like the current one. They only leave about 2 hours apart, IIRC.

Exactly. The MIA-JFK flights are set-up to cater to mostly connecting traffic....minimal O+D. The O+D route was MIA-LGA where DL simply couldn't compete with AA.


User currently offlineATLAaron From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1020 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4865 times:
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Question about when a route is cancelled like this. Say I was holding a ticket to fly MHT-JFK in the future and now that the route is cancelled would DL give me a refund (on a non-rerfundable ticket)? Or would they just now make me connect to get to JFK?

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32176 posts, RR: 72
Reply 15, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4850 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 13):
The O+D route was MIA-LGA where DL simply couldn't compete with AA.

If they had ever bothered to put in a third daily, I bet they could have done better, though. MIA-LGA is a business market, and not having a morning departure from Miami killed it from day one. Too bad it's back to the AA monopoly. At least a third airline will be joining MIA-JFK this spring...



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User currently offlineCOERJ145 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1421 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4831 times:

Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 14):
Question about when a route is cancelled like this. Say I was holding a ticket to fly MHT-JFK in the future and now that the route is cancelled would DL give me a refund (on a non-rerfundable ticket)? Or would they just now make me connect to get to JFK?

They'd probably offer a refund or offer a different flight for no charge(like BOS or PVD-JFK).


User currently offlineBoston92 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3390 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4778 times:

I was booked LAX-JFK-MHT, was changed to LAX-CVG-MHT.


"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22299 posts, RR: 20
Reply 18, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4769 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 12):
IIRC, they started TRI-MCO before Allegiant was ever on TRI-SFB.

I think the route started in late 2004 (maybe early 05) as a response to DH, actually.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineThreeIfByAir From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 649 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4765 times:

JFK-MHT surely suffered from BOS siphoning away many potential international connections. If the passengers were mostly connecting internationally, I doubt the yields were very good for a 199mi flight on a CRJ or ERJ. Also, does anyone know the on-time performance?

Losing JFK-MHT does take away a single-connection routing from the West Coast, but there are still quite a few others.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 15):
At least a third airline will be joining MIA-JFK this spring...

Virgin America? JetBlue?  Wink

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 15):
MIA-LGA is a business market, and not having a morning departure from Miami killed it from day one.

It seems odd that DL didn't try adding that morning flight from MIA. I guess US isn't interested in challenging AA either.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32176 posts, RR: 72
Reply 20, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4592 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 18):
I think the route started in late 2004 (maybe early 05) as a response to DH, actually.

DH never flew to Tri-Cities, but Delta did start MCO-TYS, which still operates, in response to DH.



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User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22299 posts, RR: 20
Reply 21, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4573 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 20):
DH never flew to Tri-Cities,

Correct, though DH did fly to TYS, and I believe flew TYS-MCO (perhaps you remember...).



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6477 posts, RR: 24
Reply 22, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4570 times:

I don't know exactly when DL started TRI-MCO, but I know it was before G4 came in. It was during the time that DL was flinging RJ's from MCO to practically every city they could and seeing what would stick. TRI actually held on for a while, but I think the arrival of G4 dealt it the final blow.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 15):
If they had ever bothered to put in a third daily, I bet they could have done better, though.

You're probably right, but I don't think DL felt it was worth fighting for and using valuable LGA slots.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 23, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4492 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 8):
I'm actually pleased to see that DL has made JFKMIA work.. that's a pretty significant accomplishment against AA.

..given that AA runs 4x/daily A300's and 1 B763 I'm not so sure if AA is too concerned about DL's current 1 daily MadDog flight....



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offline747fan From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1184 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (6 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4442 times:

Quoting BatonOps (Reply 3):
No props on that route. One flight was a CRJ the other was an ERJ.

Actually, I believe it was turboprop flight (Dash 8's) until Freedom quit flying them into JFK in August, correct me if I'm wrong.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
They carry a lot of through traffic to Europe. Berlin, Kiev, and Istanbul are especially popular connecting destinations. The new JFK flight is also timed to connect to/from Europe like the current one. They only leave about 2 hours apart, IIRC.

I wonder how TXL, KBP, IST, and some other secondary destinations (namely BUD, OTP, VCE, and PSA)are fairing out of JFK? Does anyone if these have been successful flights for DL so far? I know BUD, KPB, and IST also have competition from their national flag carriers on those routes (as well as TXL with CO), so I'm curious on how these routes perform if anyone has any knowledge about them. If these routes have been successful, it wouldn't hurt DL to try JFK-Zagreb, Warsaw, or VIE (if they have enough 767's after their Africa expansion).
I did find the JFK-PBI flight peculiar, as DL already flew into LGA from PBI( not to mention CO flies EWR-PBI) which is obviously the generally preferred NYC airport); obviously they were aiming this flight on int'l. connection pax., but still. It obviously didn't work.

Quoting ThreeIfByAir (Reply 19):
Losing JFK-MHT does take away a single-connection routing from the West Coast, but there are still quite a few others.

Yes, but MHT pax. can still fly through CVG or ATL to get to/from the West Coast. I know that the loss of JFK-MHT takes away potential pax. on transcons, but the healty NYC O&D market probably makes up for that.


25 RandyWaldron : The name of "The Lake" is Winnipesaukee - albeit a great vacation spot (I have a home there), most folks that travel vast distances to visit "The Lak
26 Dartland : I just flew LAX-JFK-MHT on Wednesday. The JFK-MHT leg left the gate on-time (as soon as they found a tug), but took off about an hour later after wait
27 Warszawa : Whats the deal with the Dash 8's? I dont see them on any route in Delta's network. What is (or was) the reason for their removal?
28 DAL767400ER : Lots of issues with them, starting with Mesa failing to get necessary certifications in time which forced them to temporarily use Beech-1900s into JF
29 Lat41 : Some of the International destinations from MHT that could be reached on DL via JFK were priced stupidly high versus BOS, connecting at the same Kenne
30 Panamair : JFK-MHT was already removed from the schedule (at least for flights post-Jan 2008) before the most recent FAA JFK scheduling meetings. However, even
31 Post contains images 747fan : Thanks for that info. Glad to see that DL is doing well on these routes (at least in the summer), especially the new JFK-OTP and JFK-PSA! I wonder if
32 B752OS : As Panamir posted, DL is adding more domestic service out of JFK in light of the cancelations. Ever think maybe with JFK getting slot restricted, MHT
33 Flighty : !! I had not heard about those. Those are all big news.
34 Dbo861 : Was this Wednesday 10/24? I was the first officer working this flight.
35 EXAAUADL : MHT is too close t oBOS and BOS has excellent international connections..would you rather drive down to BOS, or connect via JFK and deal with all that
36 B752OS : It makes more sense to fly out of BOS to Europe than it does to go MHT-JFK-Europe for a person who lives close to MHT, at least in my opinion. I am s
37 Post contains links Panamair : It was slipped in in the announcement about Middle East/Africa expansion out of JFK: http://news.delta.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=10861 "....
38 Airbazar : US/UA have the international market cornered at MHT and both WN and US seem to have the domestic market. You can get really competitive fares to Europ
39 Lat41 : In their newly loaded schedule it appears to the South at PVD, there will be just 2 RJs. One for the morning Int'l bank and one for the evening to ser
40 USPIT10L : Does DL still fly CLTLGA? I remember the route was started up a few years ago, wasn't sure if it was still around. Thanks in advance.
41 RL757PVD : Well two is the minimum for JFK becuase the 6am departure uses the aircraft that came in from the INTL bank the night before, 1x JFK cant serve both
42 Panamair : I don't know which days you're checking but PVD-JFK still has 3x RJs on most days except Saturday. Yes, up to 4x daily on weekdays and 2x daily on Sa
43 Cubsrule : Interestingly, though, CLT-JFK, which was started at around the same time, did not succeed. I wonder why DL thinks it will be different this time.
44 DAL767400ER : Because their first try was with a one-class CRJ. This time it will be with a 2-class CR9, which will make the flight more attractive. The flight wil
45 Cubsrule : It was. Do you really think the CR9 will make that much difference? The problem in CLT is that DL needs to target the customers going to secondary de
46 Panamair : Actually, CLT-JFK is showing as a regular CRJ. Both the IAH and MSP flights though will be CR9s with First class cabins. I have no idea why but maybe
47 Panamair : But you can also say that about many other domestic feeder cities like DTW, PDX, DFW, ORD, etc., all of which have nonstops to at least one of the th
48 Cubsrule : Quite true; DL's model seems to work in many places. I would suggest two problems in Charlotte. 1) Charlotte is smaller (in some cases quite a bit sm
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