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Mesa Ordered To Pay $80 Million To HA  
User currently offlineAloha73G From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2365 posts, RR: 4
Posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6298 times:

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/ar...e/2007/Oct/30/br/br1698025437.html

http://starbulletin.com/breaking/breaking.php?id=6357

Just broke.

Grteat news for AQ and HA.

-Aloha!

[Edited 2007-10-30 17:24:57]


Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
75 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKingCavalier From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 1312 posts, RR: 18
Reply 1, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6276 times:

Wow. I'm sure HA and AQ would be happy with just having Mesa exit Hawaii all together. Maybe a deal can be worked out to excuse the $80M.


Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
User currently offlineFreshlove1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6241 times:

Big deal so they get 80 mil. Insurance will cover that and J.O. will continue his crap. Mesa may have "lost" 80 mil but they will make that up in due time. Unfortunatly J.O. .will push one of them out of business. Now he can use what he knows because the 80 mil is the settlement for AQ and HA. Now those $9 fares will run crazy and AQ and HA will feel it in the long run. AQ and HA may have "won" now but unfortunatly I think one of them will lose in the long run then Mesa can step in and take the place of the one who had closed up shop, raise prices, and gouge the people of Hawaii with high fares like HA and AQ are doing now. I'd rather see Mesa go but I just don't think it will happen.

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25785 posts, RR: 50
Reply 3, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6242 times:

Don't hold your breath HA.

I'm sure Mesa will appeal and make full use of its legal options.

Just last week read Exxon Valdez award is still being debated by courts 20 years later, after having been already halved two times



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineWoodsboy From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 1031 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6192 times:

I cant say that I feel "gouged" by $29-89 I pay for interisland flights on HA or AQ, Just last week we bought two one way tickets from LIH to HNL for $80 bux, seems decent to me! I also always check what GO! is charging before I buy my tickets on one of the other two and recently GO! has been slightly more, but still in the same general range. I havent actually flown on Go! but when I am on HA or AQ the flights are usually pretty full, it has always seemed to me that the capacity seems about right for the business that exists for interisland travel, not counting Go, I dont know how full they run. What about the little guys like Island Air and Pacific Wings? They also seems to be hanging in there, but I know they serve the smaller airports. Those are my thoughts.

User currently offlineAirTranTUS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6165 times:

Why is this good news for AQ? The money is going to HA.

Good of the judge to not bar go! from selling tickets.


User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6088 times:

Quoting Woodsboy (Reply 4):
I cant say that I feel "gouged" by $29-89 I pay for interisland flights on HA or AQ, Just last week we bought two one way tickets from LIH to HNL for $80 bux, seems decent to me!

Only because Go is in the market. If it wasn't, you'd be paying much more on Aloha and Hawaiian. Thank Go for your low interisland prices.


User currently offlineItsnotfinals From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6088 times:

YV already has been having bad financial performance and this will not help, insurance pay out of not.

It highly Ironic that JO decided to risk this lawsuit to operate just 5 CRJ's in Hawai'i.

The stock price has already been down over 40% just in the last 12 months for Mesa, this will only hurt it

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?t=1y&s...n&z=m&q=l&c=luv&c=%5EGSPC&c=%5EDJI


User currently offlineACVitale From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 922 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5984 times:

Insurance may not cover this...

Better check on the policy exclusions...

Also this does not resolve the AQ lawsuit against YV

This does nothing to mitigate an anti-trust/price dumping lawsuit from AQ and HA against YV.

Call this the first battle win. The war is still being fought!


User currently offlineAloha73G From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2365 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5966 times:

Quoting ACVitale (Reply 8):
Insurance may not cover this...

Better check on the policy exclusions...

And also, the policy limits (maximum payout).

-Aloha!



Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4365 posts, RR: 28
Reply 10, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5954 times:

Quoting Freshlove1 (Reply 2):
Mesa may have "lost" 80 mil but they will make that up in due time.

Yes, by paying their flight crews even less money!  Wink

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
Just last week read Exxon Valdez award is still being debated by courts 20 years later

Don't exagerate! It's only been 18 years!!

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 6):
Thank Go for your low interisland prices.

Competition is the greatest invention since our predecessors learned to walk upright. But "dumping" to gain market share is not being competitive and it's not in the best interests of any market.

Quoting ACVitale (Reply 8):
Insurance may not cover this...

Better check on the policy exclusions...

Also this does not resolve the AQ lawsuit against YV

This does nothing to mitigate an anti-trust/price dumping lawsuit from AQ and HA against YV.

Call this the first battle win. The war is still being fought!

 checkmark 



My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C
User currently offlineAloha73G From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2365 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day ago) and read 5909 times:

Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 5):
Why is this good news for AQ? The money is going to HA.

Its good for Aloha because it means they are more likely to win their suit (the judge previously ruled that they have a STRONGER case than Hawaiian).

It also means that the Mesa Board of Directors is more likely to tell JO to cut his losses and get out of Hawai'i. They are FAR from being even remotely close to profitable....and this certainly doesn't help. Check the stock price tomorrow and you'll see what I mean. Remember the BOD has a responisbility to the shareholders; not JO.

Perhaps they will try to settle with AQ....."we'll pay you $20 million in cash, and leave now, and rebook all of passengers on your flights."

-Aloha!



Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
User currently offlineFreshlove1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day ago) and read 5874 times:

AQ and HA have been taking advantage of the people of HI for years with their high prices. They get some compitition and they go run and cry to the Judge. Personally I really don't care about the airlines of HI and if the people want only HA nad AQ then fine but dont complain when they charge insane prices to fly you a short distance after all the compitition is forced to leave. If they want to play like that then we should kick HA and AQ off the mainland. It's only fair right?

User currently offlineAloha73G From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2365 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day ago) and read 5825 times:

Quoting Freshlove1 (Reply 12):
AQ and HA have been taking advantage of the people of HI for years with their high prices.

I contend their prices were fair. Heres why:

* The market hasn't grown with the rock-bottom prices (No "Southwest Effect"). To me this says that everyone who wanted to fly was flying before.

* If you weren't flying on the 10 busiest days of the year at the busiest times you were paying $60-80 each way; which is comparable to similar routes on the mainland.

*PDX-SEA is most similar in my eyes and Horizon's fares were MUCH higher that interisland fares. Also WN's routes within Texas, California and Florida were on par or HIGHER than interisland fares.

NOW, I ask....what is wrong with a company making a profit?? If it costs them about $60 to provide a service, whats wrong with charging $70?? Do you expect Wal-Mart or Costco to sell you toilet paper that cost them $1 per roll for 50 cents?? Or Ford to sell you a $20,000 car for $12,000??

People should expect to pay what it costs to provide a service or product, plus a little more.

If Mesa had come in with lowwer costs than AQ and HA and challenged them fairly on price (Mesa's lower costs plus a small profit), that would be one thing. They do not have lower costs, they have HIGHER COSTS than AQ and HA.

-Aloha!



Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3299 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day ago) and read 5826 times:

Quoting Freshlove1 (Reply 12):
AQ and HA have been taking advantage of the people of HI for years with their high prices. They get some compitition and they go run and cry to the Judge.

Have you read up at all about this lawsuit? AQ and HA didn't go to court over the fact that GO is flying on the island. It's how they made the decision to enter. The court found that Mesa used proprietary information from the 2 airlines in order to decide to start GO. The court found that Mesa had used information that was confidential and that they had agreed would not be used for such purposes.


User currently offlineACVitale From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 922 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day ago) and read 5778 times:

Quoting Freshlove1 (Reply 12):
AQ and HA have been taking advantage of the people of HI for years with their high prices. They get some compitition and they go run and cry to the Judge. Personally I really don't care about the airlines of HI and if the people want only HA nad AQ then fine but dont complain when they charge insane prices to fly you a short distance after all the compitition is forced to leave. If they want to play like that then we should kick HA and AQ off the mainland. It's only fair right?

Sadly, To make such a statement shows a clear lack of understanding of the actual costs, fares, and even this specific situation.

There is nothing insane about $59 for a 1 hr hop. Tell me the problem with that fare.

Do you believe that Mesa which has a higher cost structure is making money on $9/$19/$29 fares when the break even is going to be $59/$69/$79

To support YV which violated confidentiality and then make comments about kicking AQ and HA off the mainline is just juvenile and frankly has me baffled.

Are you one who feels that you are entitled and that every company owes you a free ride... Or nearly free ?


User currently offlineFreshlove1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (6 years 12 months 1 day ago) and read 5733 times:

Quoting ACVitale (Reply 15):
Are you one who feels that you are entitled and that every company owes you a free ride... Or nearly free ?

No, charge what is necessary for the route but in the case of HA and AQ they have been gouging the people of HI for years then when compitition comes in they cry because they can't get away with murder anymore.


The $59 is because there because of GO!....without GO! it would be well over $100 each way. Just watch what happens if and when GO! or any other low cost airline that may try in HI is forced to leave HI.


No Mesa is not making money in HI, everyone knows that. The mainland fee for departure flights are making up for the loss in HI. What gets me is that HA an AQ are scared of Mesa and their 5 plane CRJ operation. There should be no fear from Mesa even if they do only charge $9. 5 CRJ's are not going to take down AQ or HA unless their business plan is so bad.


User currently offlineAloha73G From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2365 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (6 years 12 months 23 hours ago) and read 5720 times:

Quoting Freshlove1 (Reply 16):
in the case of HA and AQ they have been gouging the people of HI for years

Prove it. Many people say they are gouging but don't back it up with facts. How many interisland tickets have you ever bought?? Is Southwest "Gouging" with thei $100 fares from between Southern and Norther California??

Quoting Freshlove1 (Reply 16):
The $59 is because there because of GO!

There currently isn't a "$59 fare."

go!'s fares are of the $1, $9, $19, $29 and $39 variety.

$59 is actually what AQ and HA charged as sale fares before anyone in Hawai'i had even heard of go! or Mesa (2003, 2004).

-Aloha!



Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
User currently offlineFreshlove1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (6 years 12 months 23 hours ago) and read 5689 times:

Quoting Aloha73G (Reply 17):
Is Southwest "Gouging" with thei $100 fares from between Southern and Norther California??

This is not about WN. But i'm sure if WN decided to come to HI and charged $69 from LAX-HNL or something like that both AQ and HI would be once again crying because someone has offered lower prices.


User currently offlineAloha73G From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2365 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (6 years 12 months 23 hours ago) and read 5659 times:

Quoting Freshlove1 (Reply 18):
This is not about WN. But i'm sure if WN decided to come to HI and charged $69 from LAX-HNL or something like that both AQ and HI would be once again crying because someone has offered lower prices.

I was providing one of many examples of one of many similar routes on the mainland that have fares which are higher than the fares AQ and HA charged. You (or anyone) has yet to prove that HA and AQ have gouged anyone.

If Southwest decided to fly from the mainland to Hawai'i, they wouldn't charge $69.....they are way to smart for that. I'm not sure why you brought that up. LA to HNL (for example) is probably one of the most competitive routes in the US with daily service from AA, UA, DL, NW, CO, ATA, HA, AQ and probably someone else. HA and AQ compete just fine on these routes, and do so profitably (they both make $$ on mainland flights) while providing better service than the other carriers.

-Aloha!



Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5504 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (6 years 12 months 23 hours ago) and read 5639 times:

Quoting Freshlove1 (Reply 2):
Insurance will cover that

I agree with ACVitale on this. While it's a civil judgement, not criminal, Mesa's actions were not inadvertent and the consequences were avoidable. The insurance company will likely be filing its own suit if Mesa submits a claim.

Note also in the judgement that interest begins accruing on the $80 million as of the day of the judgement. Delaying the award through the appeals process won't stop that accrual.

Look also for a shareholders' suit against Mesa if the judgement is upheld on any appeal.

[Edited 2007-10-30 20:17:48]


I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineACVitale From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 922 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (6 years 12 months 23 hours ago) and read 5548 times:

Quoting Freshlove1 (Reply 16):
The $59 is because there because of GO!....without GO! it would be well over $100 each way. Just watch what happens if and when GO! or any other low cost airline that may try in HI is forced to leave HI.

Ahh.... I remember 99 roundtrip 49.50 each way before go! was a dream.


User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4344 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (6 years 12 months 21 hours ago) and read 5419 times:

Quoting Freshlove1 (Reply 16):
The $59 is because there because of GO!....without GO! it would be well over $100 each way. Just watch what happens if and when GO! or any other low cost airline that may try in HI is forced to leave HI.

Sorry bud - but reality disagrees w/ your rant. I lived in Hawaii (Maui) for three years prior to Mesa's arrival, and the most I ever paid, was $98, last minute, OW OGG-KOA. OGG-HNL planned in advance usually ran between 150-180 for two of us RT.

Not only that, but because fares had finally stabilized, not only did I have frequent jet service on AQ & HA to HNL, I had the option of frequent Island Air service to the other islands, and Island Air was about to expand service and add new planes. Guess what - they're down to 4 planes (I think -not sure of the exact number) and where there used to be 5+ NS OGG to KOA, there are now three.

I am the worlds biggest advocate of true competition, but Go was nothing more than attempt to drive a weak competitor out of the market using questionable (at best) practices. JO himself said that once the market 'rationalized' Go would raise prices.



"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineHawaiian717 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3195 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (6 years 12 months 21 hours ago) and read 5388 times:

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 22):
Not only that, but because fares had finally stabilized, not only did I have frequent jet service on AQ & HA to HNL, I had the option of frequent Island Air service to the other islands, and Island Air was about to expand service and add new planes.

Before Go showed up, Island Air was competing on the major routes as well as serving the secondary markets and was offering some great deals, significantly undercutting HA and AQ. Nobody was complaining then.

As has been said before, the problem is not that Go is offering low fares. The problem is that they're doing it with proprietary information that they had access to as a potential bidder in both HA and AQ's bankruptcies and were supposed to have destroyed.


User currently offlineGeorgebush From New Zealand, joined Jul 2006, 679 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 12 months 20 hours ago) and read 5325 times:

I say everyone should boycott GO! entirely. In my opinion we should also write UA DL and US to tell them to drop Mesa or we will find another express flight on a different carrier to fly with. If you get 50 of their biggest corporate clients, you might be able to get your point across.


Al Gore invented global warming.
25 T prop : Kick HA and AQ off the mainland? You sound like a spiteful child. You want to talk about fair? Mesa's version of fair just cost them $80 mil, good th
26 LAXintl : An appeal can have the whole award thrown out, or significantly reduced mitigating any interest that might or might not accrue and which itself is su
27 Aloha73G : Or the appeals court could refuse to hear the case and let the judgement stand. I'm no lawyer....does anyone know if the fact the trial was in banrup
28 MSYPI7185 : The fares GO are charging are irrelevant. If a company wants to lose money that is their business. Stupidity is not a crime although it should be in s
29 MasseyBrown : Yep, but I said "delaying the award" not overturning it. The appeals process can be a lengthy one: A bankruptcy court is authorized to decide all ref
30 LAXintl : While not airline related I know of a California based industrial paint/solvent manufacturer whom had emerged from BK and filed a case back BK court
31 T prop : If Mesa appeals they have to put up a chunk of change as a bond that is held until the outcome of the appeal is decided. Anyone have a clue as to how
32 Post contains links LAXintl : Found this Mesa press release, and indeed they are talking about an appellate process. Full story; http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/071031/law098.html?.v=9
33 Ikramerica : Actually, it's not. Not when that company is only a branch of a much larger company. Product dumping to destroy a market is considered a crime becaus
34 HNL-Jack : I live in Honolulu and just prior to the entry of Go in the market I paid $129 (ow) between Maui and Oahu on HA. The cheapest fare at that time was ab
35 Ikramerica : That doesn't jive with what others have said, but let's assume that was true. Were the flights full? Close to full? If so, why should any company vol
36 Aloha73G : In the 6 months prior to go!'s entry in June 2006 most (if not all) of the sale fares disappeared. My guess is that AQ and HA were pricing conservati
37 Aloha73G : As a sidenote, the demand for seats is why Aloha removed First Class from its 737-200 interisland fleet. I recall that often, the flights at peak tim
38 Post contains images Ikramerica : I assume that if the flights were full, there were enough customers willing to pay those fares. Again, there will always be the faction of people who
39 Post contains links SpencerII : Mesa's Response..... http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....-newsArticle&ID=1070019&highlight= the ruling was from a "Bankrupcty Judge", This will be
40 Ha763 : I think that it's good that Mesa has to pay because they were stupid enough to get caught. I also hope their appeals fail as well. If it wasn't for J.
41 Itsnotfinals : HA and AQ are consistently cheaper than their main land counterparts even before go!. Try to buy a ticket from BOS to LGA (112 dollars only with 14 d
42 MSYPI7185 : I was not referring to the IRS aspect of losing money, that is not what is being discussed. Some are taking the judges ruling and trying to say his ru
43 Aloha73G : You are correct. The ruling was about the breach of contract and unethical/illegal actions of Mesa and its executives. The fares charged only come in
44 Kstatepilot : Not quite the same: LAX-SFO is 337 n.m. HNL-LIH is 102 n.m.
45 Aloha73G : Remember that there is a point on ultra short flights where they become more expensive due to the lack of cruise at altitude and the extreme number o
46 Bicoastal : United owns a nice chunk of Aloha. And United contracts with Mesa for a lot of its regional flying on the mainland. If UA weren't happy with what Go
47 Post contains links Itsnotfinals : BOS-LGA is only 160 NM. there are several more markets than HNL-LIH, OGG is a ways further. and yet Go! has have cheap fares there too. http://gc.kls
48 HAL : Then let's try a closer distance. Phoenix to Tucson is about 108n.m. Mesa charges $238 (according to expedia) for a one-way purchase with less than 7
49 Itsnotfinals : totally agree. that same one way BOS-LGA fare with 1 day advance is 336 dollars one way, I was being kind when I used the round trip 14 day advance.
50 Imapilotaz : This comment right here just proves that you in no way work for any airline and have little understanding of airlines. Mesa does not set any fares or
51 Aloha73G : HAL is a 767 First Officer for Hawaiian Airlines and I guarantee he knows alot more than you do...especially with regard to Hawai'i and our interisla
52 Itsnotfinals : [ first of all this type of flame bait is just wrong. You will not find ANY EC or US domestic carrier cheaper on a terminating segment length basis th
53 Georgebush : Who would UA get to pick up all that flying?? You know United as well as I do, they look the other way untill its THEIR problem. UAX Mesa is the most
54 LAXintl : Unlikely for a while. UA just contracted Mesa for even more flying -- 22 CRJ700s on 10 year terms commencing in 2008. In the big picture Mesa does fi
55 Post contains images Itsnotfinals : Especially when UA can cancel YV's flights into and out of UA hubs to get their own metal in during irregular ops and then ping them for not hitting
56 Freshlove1 : Sure this is Mesa charging this and not Mesa flying for US Airways Express who would set the price on that route?
57 Freshlove1 : You need to get the facts together first before posting very incorrect information like this. When you do come back and post the correct findings Mr.
58 777fan : Certainly not the case. I knew of many people that wanted to fly to the other islands pre-go! but couldn't afford to do so. The lower fares that go!
59 Aloha73G : The numbers simply do not pan this out. The market has grown between 3% and 8% on a 20% capacity increase and a 50-75% decrease in fares. This (the e
60 HPAEAA : no it's not.. and GO can't continue to use the information.. the 80 MM is the penalty for illegally using the info in the first palace.. the AQ HA la
61 Imapilotaz : Wow Freshlove, I believe that may be the first halfway positive comment ive seen from you about Mesa.
62 Freshlove1 : This will go on forever. Appeal after appeal and so forth like any other legal battle between companies. It's not worth wasting time on. This is HI f
63 Post contains links T prop : From the Mesa pilot leadership: "We are shocked and appalled by these developments," said Captain Michael Jayson, chairman of the Mesa Air Group unit
64 Aloha73G : The judge set an interest rate of about 4% per year. Thats $3,200,000 million more for the first year or about $8,700 more per day.
65 T prop : That's just interest, the 80 mil figure came from losses that HA incurred the day go started till this month I think. As go continues to operate that
66 Aloha73G : I'm not sure the amount grows. One report I read said that Hawaiian was exploring how to recoup the losses it will continue to sustain while go! cont
67 Post contains links Itsnotfinals : Mesa must also post an 80 Million dollar bond while the appeals process takes place, this will cost a tidy sum also to purchase a bond from a financia
68 HAL : Lighten up Francis! I guess I didn't say it quite right in my original post. What I meant was that the cost to the airlines is dictated much more by
69 Itsnotfinals : One of the best posts I have seen on Anet this year and very spot on. a CRJ is just not viable on these short segments. The consumer doesn't care who
70 Hawaiian717 : How about the 1.2 million residents of the state of Hawaii? What about the frequent visitors to the islands? What about the shareholders of Hawaiian
71 Hiloboy1 : HAL, you said it perfectly!!! But lets stoke the fire LOL!!! How ironic that HAL has posted record profits this last quarter, yet state in court that
72 Post contains images Itsnotfinals : if you live on an island you kind of have to realize you have limited options Would you agree AQ and HA are a vital part of the Hawai'i economy and a
73 MasseyBrown : If that is the accepted case, then the State of Hawaii, not the operators, should subsidize the fares or regulate the competition. The operators are
74 Itsnotfinals : I agree with that too, I am just saying that Hawaii is a set of islands, and air travel is the primary way to get around, if every one goes bankrupt
75 WesternA318 : Entirely good idea, as I tend to boycott MOST Mesa ops, aside from the SLC-LAS night flight. BT^W, isn't Gordon Bethune on the BOD of Aloha? I wonder
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