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737 SFO-RDU Nonstop - Who Believes Me?  
User currently offlineAirstud From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2775 posts, RR: 4
Posted (7 years 2 months 2 hours ago) and read 10758 times:

No one believes me.

In January of 1994 I was flying SFO-RDU-TPA aboard USAir. I was tres surprised upon boarding at SFO to see that the aircraft taking me nonstop to Raleigh Durham clear on the other coast was a 737. Dad asked me what kind of plane took me out and I remember badly wanting to strangle him when he said, "Are you sure it wasn't a (slowing down, like I'm a kindergartener) seven - F O R T Y - seven?" You know - what with USAir never ever ever ever ever having flown those. And what with the act of confusing a 737 with a 747 being equal to that of confusing a No. 2 pencil with a 747.

I looked this up in bookstores when I got back. I read that the 737-400 was available with extry fuel tanks, extending its range to 2,900 miles; making it the only 737 truly capable of an SFO-RDU nonstop in 1994. I can't recall exactly that the safety card said ours was a -400, but it bloody stands to reason, doesn't it?

So...experts out there. If you're at the table with me in early 1994 and I tells you I was on a 737 for the SFO-RDU leg, would you a) assume I'm enough of an astonishing idiot to confuse a 737 with a 747 which furthermore doesn't exist in the airline I took, or b) believe me?

Is there a c) ?


Pancakes are delicious.
76 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFreshlove1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 months 1 hour ago) and read 10699 times:

A 737-300 could make that run easily. I just looked and US had a flight that went SFO-PHL on a 737-300 back in 94' so SFO-RDU is doable.

User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9830 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 months 1 hour ago) and read 10678 times:

USair operated 737s on transcontinental routes. The planes were limited in payload, but were used in the 90s before the longer range A320 series planes started arriving in the fleet. I remember hearing about people flying to SEA on a 737 and was very confused, but it's true. It is a stretch though for the 737 classics, but they could do it under certain conditions.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineRhodylee From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 85 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 months 1 hour ago) and read 10629 times:

Are you sure it was going to RDU and not CLT?

User currently offlineDeltaAVL From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1893 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 months 1 hour ago) and read 10632 times:

DL flies RDU-LAX daily on the 737...

Transcon 737s are becoming more and more popular.



"We break, We bend, With hand in hand, When hope is gone, Just hang on." -Guster
User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 months 1 hour ago) and read 10599 times:

Quoting DeltaAVL (Reply 4):
DL flies RDU-LAX daily on the 737...

Transcon 737s are becoming more and more popular.

You mean they are becoming more frequent, right? Somehow, using the words "transcon on a 737" in the same breath as "popular" just doesn't seem right.  Smile


User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9830 posts, RR: 52
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 months 1 hour ago) and read 10550 times:

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 5):
You mean they are becoming more frequent, right? Somehow, using the words "transcon on a 737" in the same breath as "popular" just doesn't seem right.

Most people don't care. On the inside a 737 is hardly different from a 757 or A320. 737s are completely normal on transontinental routes. AS, WN and FL only operate 737s on transcons and AA, DL, and CO have many 737 transcon flights. It doesn't matter much since you're in the same size seat regardless. Widebodies with the extra space are few and far between nowadays.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineDeltaAVL From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1893 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 months 1 hour ago) and read 10530 times:

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 5):
You mean they are becoming more frequent, right? Somehow, using the words "transcon on a 737" in the same breath as "popular" just doesn't seem right.

Alright, I admit, frequent would have been the better word to use in this case.  Wink

However, I've had better experiences on 737s than on 757s; like RoseFlyer said, the average passenger won't even be able to tell a difference between narrowbody jets.



"We break, We bend, With hand in hand, When hope is gone, Just hang on." -Guster
User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 months 1 hour ago) and read 10530 times:

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 6):
Most people don't care. On the inside a 737 is hardly different from a 757 or A320. 737s are completely normal on transontinental routes. AS, WN and FL only operate 737s on transcons and AA, DL, and CO have many 737 transcon flights. It doesn't matter much since you're in the same size seat regardless. Widebodies with the extra space are few and far between nowadays.

I'm not questioning whether they are "normal" or "frequent." They are. I take issue with the moniker "popular."

Given the opportunity to fly a 777 or 767 cross country over a 737, I'd do it in a heartbeat, and I suspect you would too.


User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 months 1 hour ago) and read 10489 times:

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 5):
You mean they are becoming more frequent, right? Somehow, using the words "transcon on a 737" in the same breath as "popular" just doesn't seem right.

Hardly much different than a transcon ride in a 757 or A320 though, IMO anyway. Granted I'd prefer the 757 over the 737, but that's because I like the takeoff of the 757 over a 737 plus I've flown on fewer 757's than 737's. From a passenger standpoint, I'd find them pretty much equal though.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 8):
Given the opportunity to fly a 777 or 767 cross country over a 737, I'd do it in a heartbeat, and I suspect you would too.

Yea, but even that is becoming harder and harder to do.  frown 


User currently offlineRDUDDJI From Lesotho, joined Jun 2004, 1549 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 months 1 hour ago) and read 10462 times:

I've flown on a 737-700 from SJC to RDU and a 737-800 from LAX-RDU. It definitely would have been more of an operational challenge on the -400, but not impossible.


Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21880 posts, RR: 55
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 months 1 hour ago) and read 10427 times:

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 8):
Given the opportunity to fly a 777 or 767 cross country over a 737, I'd do it in a heartbeat, and I suspect you would too.

Depends on the airline. I'd rather be on a B6 320 across the country than a AA 767. All other things being equal, however, I would prefer the widebody.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 months 1 hour ago) and read 10428 times:

Quoting DeltaAVL (Reply 7):
However, I've had better experiences on 737s than on 757s; like RoseFlyer said, the average passenger won't even be able to tell a difference between narrowbody jets.

The one big advantage to 757's is that there is an economy toilet forward. On a short flight that might not matter, but on a transcon, it does make a difference. Except for some of CO's 738's, most 737's and 320s (non-LCC) have but two lavs in the rear.


User currently offlineKSYR From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 months ago) and read 10271 times:

Why would US fly from SFO-RDU? Seems like a very unusual routing; was it a charter flight?

User currently offlineWhappeh From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 1563 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 months ago) and read 10263 times:

US used to have a ton of weird routes, it could of been a PSA related route, as well. I can also, re affirm the fact that US flew 737s trans-con a lot.

Though I've heard pilots say they used to come in pretty low on gas when the weather conditions were not in their favor.



-Travel now, journey infinitely.
User currently offlineSeaBosDca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5856 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 months ago) and read 10251 times:

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 6):
AS, WN and FL only operate 737s on transcons and AA, DL, and CO have many 737 transcon flights.

As I know you know (but I'll just add to clarify for less experienced readers) these flights are all operated with the 737NG, usually 737-800 or occasionally 737-700. These variants almost never have problems with transcons, except in the most extreme wind conditions. The 737-900A is a bit more challenged, but can do most transcons most of the time (and regularly did for AS before they had the number of -800s they do today).

I'm amazed that US flew transcons regularly with the 737-300. With a full passenger load its range is given as between 1800 and 2200 nm depending on whom you believe. That's really not enough westbound.  weightlifter  The planes must have been significantly payload restricted. I'd be curious to know the details.


User currently offlineCV880 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1137 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 months ago) and read 10189 times:

Quoting Airstud (Thread starter):
No one believes me.

You may have been on a 727-200 or 757 to CLT, but not RDU unless the flight was diverted. IIRC, US has never flown nonstop from any west coast city to RDU.


User currently offlineMSYPI7185 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 712 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 10038 times:

US had a fleet of 737-300's which had different engines and an additional fuel tank in the rear cargo compartment. They easily flew to the west coast from CLT, PIT and PHL. The longest IIRC was CLT-SEA and PHL-SAN. I worked the CLT- SEA flight fairly regularly back in 1992, 1993. I do not ever remember the aircraft being weight restricted. If it was it was not very often and then a fuel stop would have been added in either MEM or MCI where we had a fairly decent size operation there. When US started taking delivery of the ex-EA 757's then, or about that time, these 737's were being converted (reengined and AUX fuel tanks removed) to match the rest of the 737-300 fleet. I can remember a time when we operated 737-300's CLT-SAN, LAX, DEN, PHX, SEA, an I think SFO as well, basically all the cities west of DEN. I have flown 737-300's from PIT - SNA and LAX - PIT.

User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20822 posts, RR: 62
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9995 times:

Quoting SeaBosDca (Reply 15):
I'm amazed that US flew transcons regularly with the 737-300.

NYAir did it as well with the 733 flying LAX-IAD.

Quoting MSYPI7185 (Reply 17):
US had a fleet of 737-300's which had different engines and an additional fuel tank in the rear cargo compartment.

Interesting point, never knew that. I do recall some of the 733 transcons scheduled with an LAX-SFO or SFO-LAX tag, leading to unstable west coast operations for US after they bought PSA when planes got delayed in the east.

Quoting MSYPI7185 (Reply 17):
If it was it was not very often and then a fuel stop would have been added in either MEM or MCI where we had a fairly decent size operation there.

PHX was also used at times for the LAX-bound flights.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineMSYPI7185 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 712 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9979 times:

Before I get nailed, I should clarify that US had a sub-fleet of 737-300's within their 737-300 fleet with different engines and an AUX fuel tank aft for long haul ops.

User currently offlinePhllax From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 447 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9911 times:

Quoting MSYPI7185 (Reply 19):
Before I get nailed, I should clarify that US had a sub-fleet of 737-300's within their 737-300 fleet with different engines and an AUX fuel tank aft for long haul ops.

I knew about the aux fuel tanks on the 300, but didn't realize there were higher rated engines. I also know that there was a sub-fleet of 400's with the aux fuel tanks as well.

The last 737's at LAX were in 2000, a 737-400 operating the 3pm to PHL. It was strictly an O/D flight, so it was rare if the bird went out full. The winter Wolf closed the LAX crew base, (99 I believe) he turned the PHL red-eye from a 757 into a 737-300! Many believe he did that to eliminate the "crew lounge" (C Zone) on the 757 during the winter months to teach a lesson to all of the LAX pilots and F/A's who decided to stay in LA and commute to base in PHL. With staffing levels at that time, there was no spare cabin jumpseat and only 1 cockpit jumpseat on the 300.

As far as US flying SFO-RDU, they probably did do that. RDU was a fairly large station post-merger. Many of the flights disappeared as they got their house in order, only to come back later as MetroJet flights.

[Edited 2007-10-31 00:14:07]

User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9830 posts, RR: 52
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 9754 times:

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 8):
Given the opportunity to fly a 777 or 767 cross country over a 737, I'd do it in a heartbeat, and I suspect you would too.

True I'd prefer a widebody if given the choice, but I moreso prefer going nonstop. I prefer flying SEA-BOS nonstop on a 737 rather than flying something like SEA-SFO-BOS just to get a bigger plane. 737s have opened up transcontinental routes to cities like SEA, PDX, SAN, SJC, OAK, SAN, LAS and many more to destinations other than big hubs.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineWannabe From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 677 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9596 times:

Quoting KSYR (Reply 13):
Why would US fly from SFO-RDU? Seems like a very unusual routing; was it a charter flight?

Back then, RDU was quickly becoming the Silicon Valley of the east, with many of the companies located in the Valley also opening up big shops in the Raleigh Durham area, and especially outside the airport in Research Triangle Park. IBM had huge opereations in San Jose, Cisco was just getting off the ground, and Nortel was starting to expand. My guess is they were probably trying to capture that market. For a while, American had flights from RDU to SJC, although I think they stopped them also.


User currently onlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6791 posts, RR: 17
Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9551 times:

Quoting Wannabe (Reply 22):
Back then, RDU was quickly becoming the Silicon Valley of the east, with many of the companies located in the Valley also opening up big shops in the Raleigh Durham area, and especially outside the airport in Research Triangle Park. IBM had huge opereations in San Jose, Cisco was just getting off the ground, and Nortel was starting to expand. My guess is they were probably trying to capture that market. For a while, American had flights from RDU to SJC, although I think they stopped them also.

Sort of. RTP was and still is a huge technology corridor. Silicon Valley is more of a new age, new innovations corridor. RTP is more of the "once they get established, they move to a cheaper location" area. Many of the companies in RTP that would use the RDU-BAY flights are still present, but their presence is not as large in one or both areas. Although they are still crying out for nonstop flights to the BAY. IBM is still large in RTP, as well as CISCO and SAS. Nortel has dwindled in the past few years but starting to turn around. New corporations have come that would make the TechTrek work again.

I don't think American actually ever had a SJC flight. Midway did and I don't think it did very well. SFO would be a much better choice to capture all of the BAY as opposed to just one part of it. I also don't think there has ever been a nonstop to SFO from RDU.. or at least, according to the RDUAA. In one of their Newsletter, they were stating how Virgin (when the service is offered) would be the first airline to offer nonstop RDU-SFO.

Anyway, just thought I would interject something here..



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineRW170 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 430 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9515 times:

Quoting Whappeh (Reply 14):
it could of been a PSA related route

PSA never flew scheduled service to the east coast. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think USAir had dismantled the PSA network for the most part by '94 anyway.



319/320/321/712/733/734/735/73G/738/752/753/763/CR2/CR9/DH8/135/145/170/175/190/D9S/D94/D95/M82/M83/M88
25 AeroWesty : The current PSA flies on the east coast, but there were never any PSA flights between coasts. PSA in its original form was all but gone by about May
26 Baw2198 : I knew the 300's had the aux tank (2750lbs IIRC). The DEN flight from PIT always had the aux tank and it was always slow to fill off of the center tan
27 MSYtristar : I think these birds were designated 737-300LR's. They were commonplace on long hauls from CLT/PIT/PHL to the West coast for years.
28 EWRCabincrew : Replace 'popular' with 'economical', then. That and 'popular' with the airlines, not so 'popular' with customers. CO in the 80's flew EWR-SJC/SNA/SAN
29 Airstud : I absolutely SWEAR to you all, on my LIFE, the eastbound route was SFO-RDU-TPA. We landed at Raleigh-Durham airport, NOT Charlotte. I can't overstate
30 LACA773 : When I was attending SJSU and USF, I used to take those 733 flights regularly to PIT & PHL from SFO. Those were the days. US actually showed full len
31 LAXspotter : yep, primarily due to CO, DL, AS. AA doesnt rely on the 738 too much for their Transcons SFO-RDU can be done nonstop in a 737. Depending on the time
32 Xtoler : A few years ago, while I was an F/A on the EMB145 (I was so closed minded and forgot how far you can go on certain a/c) my parents flew from ORF to on
33 Xtoler : BTW, a little of center, but anyone remember RDU planning a big cargo hub back in the late '80's?
34 USAirALB : [quote=Airstud,reply=29][I absolutely SWEAR to you all, on my LIFE, the eastbound route was SFO-RDU-TPA. We landed at Raleigh-Durham airport, NOT Char
35 Goodmanr : The a320 has a little extra width, and every little bit helps....
36 LuiePL : Agreed. Back in 2002 I chose to take a flight on UA that would take me from ORD to DEN on a B777, then onto SJC on a A320. I figured I wouldn't get a
37 ERJ170 : Forget the past.. let's look to the future.. when will RDU get (another?) SFO flights? United? Virgin America? Delta? American? Other carrier?
38 SkyyMaster : As others have posted, US never flew RDU to west coast nonstop in any scheduled form, a charter or diversion perhaps .
39 Airstud : Yeah, except NO. SFO-RDU-TPA eastbound. Scheduled, revenue pax service. I am saying this for the last time.
40 Post contains images SkyyMaster : Do you have a date/time frame for the flight? I have thousands of timetables and this is surprising. Would be interesting to look it up. Who knows, m
41 RDUDDJI : Do they call their extra tanks ACTs? (Additional Center Tank). Just curious... It's really not that surprising, at one point RDU made up more than 5%
42 PHLwok : Let us not forget the ill-fated Flight 1493, which collided with Skywest 5569 at LAX on February 2, 1991 - it was a 733 flying a routing that we'd to
43 777gk : I believe they were called 737-300/400EOW for Extended (range)/Over Water. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but as I recall, these ships had the extr
44 Pgtravel : That was probably also on a 734. I flew that around the same time. That's a long run, though it's still 250 miles shorter than LAX-RDU.
45 FutureFO : US operates the 737-300ER and the 737-400ER. Longer range versions of the -300/400 series. These are designated with N5.. and N7... Easy way to tell t
46 USAirALB : All the extra crap has been removed to save money. =(
47 Sargek : I flew from KDCA to KSEA on a Alaska 737-800. The -800s really have some range. Alaska flys DCA to SFO and LAX non stop too.
48 Matt D : I'm surprised no one mentioned the Midway II RDU-SJC flights on -700's. Or the Pro Air -400 flights between Detroit and Seattle. Not quite a transcon
49 SkyexRamper : I would believe you if you said a 737 does EWR to SEA, or SEA to CUN.
50 Deltaflyertoo : USAIR and PIedmont were the 2 that pioneered these long haul 737s. They actually go back another 10 years prior to 94 to 84. They were both flying 727
51 STT757 : CO used to fly IAD-LAX nonstop with the 737-300, this was back in '86 / '87 prior to acquiring the EWR hub when CO had a large presence at IAD thanks
52 Post contains links Jetdeltamsy : I think you are mistaken. I don't believe USAir ever operated the route. There may have been something like SFO-BNA-RDU, or SFO-PIT-RDU...but not non
53 MSYtristar : CO definetely ran -300's from EWR to the west coast. I fondly remember seeing EWR-SEA listed in the OAG as a 733.
54 ERJ170 : Except he said it was 1994, not 1983... I've been looking for a 94 timetable myself..
55 ThegreatRDU : I wish American or United could pick up the route....
56 FlyASAGuy2005 : Well what made what he said special wass that the route was done with a 737 classic back in the today. Today, it is not strange for a 738 to do a tra
57 Jetdeltamsy : So he did. My mistake. I still don't believe USAir ever felw non-stop to SFO from RDU. AA may have at one point, but I don't think they did either. H
58 N702ML : NY Air did LAX-IAD nonstop? I don't recall ever seeing that route anywhere in any of the NY Air timetables I have. When was this?
59 SkyyMaster : I as well never recall this and looking at a few OAG's can't find it. The closest I can find of any service from RDU to northern California was Midwa
60 Jetdeltamsy : You are right. NYAir did not fly to the west coast. They were merged into the behemoth People Express/Frontier/New York Air/Britt/Continental that we
61 Post contains images SkyyMaster : This is not a comment or any slam against the thread starter, but I think lots of times, people don't remember which airline they were on, or whether
62 Iflyatldl : Well, US ran CMH-LAX with a 737-300 in the early '90's . Remember 1492 that landed on top of a Skywest commuter at LAX in the early 90's?
63 Amazonphil : Huh?? CO does these all the time with 738's and reports I hear they are "popular" Now soon with the advent of the 737-900ER in 2008, these flights wi
64 Amazonphil : Some of CO's 733's were equiped with center fuel tanks(can't remember the ship numbers now) and doing LAX-EWR or SAN-EWR was very doable....I know, I
65 N702ML : US Also flew LAX nonstop to TPA, IND, and MCI....but I dont recall there ever being a nonstop to RDU.
66 N702ML : Sorry...I meant to say a nonstop to RDU from either LAX or SFO.
67 Airstud : SkyyMaster, I believe your story about the woman who thinks she flew WN. But if it's true that "most of the traveling public" doesn't know a 737 from
68 ERJ170 : Well, so far no one has been able to definitively prove that there was no SFO-RDU service in June of 1994... no links to a timetable or anything.. so
69 SkyyMaster : Well, we all know we a.net airliner geeks can differentiate the littlest detail between aircraft. I was referring to people who are the once a year t
70 AeroWesty : Shortly before they were gobbled up by CO. It was a red-eye going east--I don't recall the westbound schedule. I was living in L.A. at the time, so i
71 N1120A : Completely different aircraft. No such -ER nomenclature from Boeing.
72 N702ML : Well I am holding the November 10-December 14, 1993 timetable, SFO service was: Baltimore 1x Charlotte 3x Fresno 4x (via Express) Indianapolis 2x Kan
73 MSYtristar : The flight could have been one of those rare "one day only" flights that airlines did/do from time to time.
74 JohnClipper : I think the 737-300s were referred to as 737-300(LR) for "long-range". Max t/o weight certified to 63,200 kg. US, CO and HP (I think) had them.
75 SkyyMaster : I think he admitted he may have been mistaken and that the routing was via LAX and TPA, which would make sense. I do recall US flying LAX-TPA at some
76 Post contains links N702ML : Yes, they did....it was a leftover from the Piedmont acquisition.... Clearly visible in these two route maps: http://www.departedflights.com/PI060189
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