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New Aircraft Manufacturer Unveils Concept (pic)  
User currently offlineAlberchico From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 2923 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 13239 times:

http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/board.asp?board_id=2975

hmmm does it remind you of any plane that you know
 Wink  Wink  Wink


short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineShyFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 12846 times:

Single engine? I have my doubts...

User currently offlineLHMARK From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 7255 posts, RR: 46
Reply 2, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 12795 times:

Wow. What an original concept. Anyone tell Britten-Norman about this?


"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
User currently offlineNational757 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 720 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 12617 times:

From http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/board.asp?board_id=2975.



Quote:

In September 2007, Integrity Aircraft announced that they are developing a proto type, known as the Integrity, that will be a 20 seat tail mounted turbo prop with STOL capabilities. Additionally, the unique mounting location of the turbine facilities quick-turnarounds with the engine running. This effectively reduces accumulation of engine cycles, which is one of the parameters that can reduce engine overhaul costs. Since engine overhaul costs are a major cost consideration in running an airline, this will have a very significant effect on the profitability of many operators. A selling price of 1.9m (in 2007 USD) is quoted.
An Entry-into-Service date of early 2008 is anticipated

Doesn't it take longer than a few months to get an aircraft certified by the FAA?

They mention quick turns as one of the advantages to having a tail mounted prop but wouldn't the additional maintenance costs associated with servicing tail mounted engines negate any cost or efficiency gains?

Quoting LHMARK (Reply 2):
Wow. What an original concept. Anyone tell Britten-Norman about this?

I take it they aren't worried as this concept likely won't ever get off the ground. These clowns are the same group of people who sponsored a NASCAR racing team, only to be sued later for nonpayment.
This article has more information about Three Sixty, Inc.

Here's a photo of the Britten-Norman plane LHMARK mentioned in his post:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © James Trimbee



Something doesn't seem right here. The concept mentioned above is an exact copy of the Britten-Norman plane minus the two wing mounted propeller engines!



Formula 1 Grand Prix Trips: YUL '08, MEL '09, BCN '10, SIN '11, and LGW '12
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6407 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 12555 times:

Quoting Alberchico (Thread starter):
mmm does it remind you of any plane that you know
Wink Wink Wink

I officially dub thee "Singlander" (my apologies to Britten-Norman and the Trislander) Big grin

Quoting National757 (Reply 3):
Quote:

In September 2007, Integrity Aircraft announced that they are developing a proto type, known as the Integrity, that will be a 20 seat tail mounted turbo prop with STOL capabilities.

Unfortunately, due to the FAR's in the United States, it will never be able to enter scheduled passenger service with more than 9 passenger seats  no 



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6407 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 12500 times:

Quoting National757 (Reply 3):
Doesn't it take longer than a few months to get an aircraft certified by the FAA?

Not if your design is a derivative of an already FAA certified type...



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineDw747400 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 1260 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 12305 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 4):
Unfortunately, due to the FAR's in the United States, it will never be able to enter scheduled passenger service with more than 9 passenger seats

That was my first thought upon seeing this thing. I'd imagine most other regulatory authorities have similar provisions, leaving you with the market of non-schedualed operators needing to move 20 people at a time and wanting to avoid jets and multi-engine turboprops.

Doesn't seem to be a viable market.



CFI--Certfied Freakin Idiot
User currently offlinePlanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6240 posts, RR: 34
Reply 7, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 11731 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 5):
Not if your design is a derivative of an already FAA certified type...

Oh, this "singlander" will

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 5):
Quoting National757 (Reply 3):
Doesn't it take longer than a few months to get an aircraft certified by the FAA?

Not if your design is a derivative of an already FAA certified type...

This "machine" would take a lot longer than nine months!! (Of course, it will never happen as the company is a penny stock scam).



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineVHECA From Australia, joined May 2007, 270 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 11498 times:

Hey all,

I let you in on some insider trading (Don't tell anyone!)  shhh 

I have raided my kids Monopoly set and I am out to buy 9 of these aircraft for a new Australian airline.  bigthumbsup 

Be prepared to make some money! Buy stock now!  dollarsign 

BTW the airline is called Notfarkinglikely Airlines out of Koo Wee Rup! (Got a brand new international airport out there funded by the same company!)  liar 

WTF? Are these guys serious! Not to judge a book by its cover but the people look as dodgy as the aircraft! Any aviation-minded person will have to be shaking their heads at these guys!

VH-ECA



Types Flown on - 312,320,722,732,733,73H,73W,742,743,74C,752,762,AB4,D1C,D28,DHT,F27,L11
User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5427 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 11464 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 4):
Unfortunately, due to the FAR's in the United States, it will never be able to enter scheduled passenger service with more than 9 passenger seats

It won't be an issue. They just have tell the FAA that it's 'supposed' to have 3 engines. Which also means ETOPS should not be a problem.

What's quite interesting, is when the Trislander performed at airshows, it regularly did flights using just the tail engine  Smile

I guess these guys saw it once!


Jimbo

[Edited 2007-10-31 19:57:24]


I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineAndrewUber From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2528 posts, RR: 40
Reply 10, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 11343 times:

Would a single engine aircraft then apply for ENOPS?  drunk 


I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
User currently offlineBrenintw From Taiwan, joined Jul 2006, 1668 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 11225 times:

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 10):
Would a single engine aircraft then apply for ENOPS?

It'll be certified right after the first brick is certified  Silly



I'm tired of the A vs. B sniping. Neither make planes that shed wings randomly!
User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5427 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 11012 times:

Quoting Brenintw (Reply 11):
It'll be certified right after the first brick is certified

Ah, the timing was right then! The A380 got certified a while back  Wink


Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineD328 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10954 times:

This doesn't seem like it will really be STOL as they say? One 1100hp engine? Doesn't make sense because most planes with 2 engines in the 19-20 seat have two 1000hp engines, like the Metro III, B1900D has over 1200hp a side, Jetstream 31 940hp a side, even though they are heavier and complex. Just doesn't make sense to me. I'd say it seems under powered, but not that bad. I compared planes below.

Hopper max take off weight is 10000lb, has 1100hp, seats up to 20. usefull load 4800.b.
PC-12 max take off weight is more than the Hopper by 450lbs, and has 1200hp. seats up to 9. Usefull load 4583lb.
Caravan max take off weight is 8750lb, and has 675hp, seats 14. usefull load 4180lb.
Trislander max take off weight is 6600lb, has a total of 780hp, seats up to 18, usefull load of 3012.


User currently offlineRleiro From Venezuela, joined Jan 2006, 499 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10883 times:

It comes with the first "Fly-by-Wire" set seen in a prop: :



Warm Regards from Venezuela,

Roberto.

[Edited 2007-10-31 20:25:39]


A proud SVZM Spotter!
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6407 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10883 times:

Quoting D328 (Reply 13):
This doesn't seem like it will really be STOL as they say? One 1100hp engine? Doesn't make sense because most planes with 2 engines in the 19-20 seat have two 1000hp engines, like the Metro III, B1900D has over 1200hp a side, Jetstream 31 940hp a side, even though they are heavier and complex. Just doesn't make sense to me. I'd say it seems under powered, but not that bad. I compared planes below.

However, the most powerful flat Lycomings (of which the Trislander had three) have 400 HP per engine, so discounting the induced drag from the now absent wing engines, ~1100 HP just might do the trick  Wink



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6407 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10359 times:

Quoting Rleiro (Reply 14):
It comes with the first "Fly-by-Wire" set seen in a prop: :

Uh, wouldn't that be "fly by wireless?"  Wink

Remind me not to be around when it flys out of range from the transmitter  scared 



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineIwok From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 9660 times:

Quoting Alberchico (Thread starter):
hmmm does it remind you of any plane that you know

It appears that they have some patent or design rights to the Britten-Norman

http://biz.yahoo.com/iw/071022/0318275.html
"IAHL holds the patent for placing a turboprop power plant high up in the tail fin of the aircraft thereby creating the following:.......dramatic increase in power -- the installed Honeywell TPE 331-12 engine increases overall power 22% from previous 3 Lycoming 540 series piston engines used on predecessor platform"

By using the term "predecessor platform" it appears that they have a controlling stake in the IP from BN.

http://biz.yahoo.com/iw/071002/0309559.html
".....The company expects massive savings will be realized in the certification of the basic airframe design, certifications and capabilities as we have already acquired certain Intellectual Properties of previously developed aircraft that will be utilized in the manufacturing of this aircraft."

I guess theoretically they could introduce this aircraft in short order due to the amount of work already done. They probably aquired the IP and designs real cheap. The concept does indeed seem intruiging to me, although don't expect me to buy 1 share of the penny stock  Smile

iwok


User currently offlineD328 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 8612 times:

Would this plane be the most passengers(20) for a single engine plane; propeller or even jet?

Tried some research and found that:

Bellanca Aircruiser held up to 15.
http://www.bellanca-championclub.com/menander/index.html

Cessna Caravan: 14

Antonov-2 & 3: 12

DeHavilland Otter: up to 11


User currently offlineIflyac From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 50 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 7508 times:

Quoting Rleiro (Reply 14):
It comes with the first "Fly-by-Wire" set seen in a prop:

Now that was friggin hilarious..lol



What was it we had for dinner tonight? Well, we had a choice of steak or fish. Yes, yes, I remember, I had lasagna.
User currently offlineJarvis78 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2007, 7 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6391 times:

This actually isn't anything new in terms of the concept. Back around 1998 I was talking to a pilot with thousands of hours on BN2 Islanders, and he said that 'they' (meaning Britten-Norman), had, or were, considering the idea of putting a tail mounted turbo-prop engine on the Trislander.

User currently offlineStickShaker From Australia, joined Sep 2004, 758 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6189 times:

Quoting National757 (Reply 3):
They mention quick turns as one of the advantages to having a tail mounted prop but wouldn't the additional maintenance costs associated with servicing tail mounted engines negate any cost or efficiency gains

Is there a single country out there where its legal for passengers to board/disembark with an engine running ?
Turbo-props guzzle fuel, even when idling so there are no real savings to be had here.
How is a fuselage and tail desinged for a 350/400 hp Lycoming going to support an 1100 hp turboprop without massive and expensive structural mods.
Who wants a 20 seat STOL turbo-prop single that will not be able to achieve much more than 100 kts ?

Think its all a load of bollocks.


Cheers,
StickShaker


User currently offlineTransIsland From Bahamas, joined Mar 2004, 2046 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5162 times:

Quoting StickShaker (Reply 21):
Is there a single country out there where its legal for passengers to board/disembark with an engine running ?

I don't know about legal, but I see hackers operating Aztecs (Navajos, Senecas, etc.) do it all the time, and on the Out Islands, I've seen UP do it with Dash-8s.



I'm an aviation expert. I have Sky Juice for breakfast.
User currently offlineBaron52ta From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5063 times:

Isn't the Trilander tail heavy?so this would therefore be more so being that it doesn't have the extra weight on the wings to help offset some of the tail. They extended the nose on the Trilander to add weight forward so unless they are going to stretch this thing it won't work, Yes I know they must have done some research but I don't think they thought it through very well.

User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7710 posts, RR: 21
Reply 24, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4963 times:

Quoting Baron52ta (Reply 23):
I don't think they thought it through very well.

Given that they have clearly just taken a Trislander and removed two engines, I think that is the understatement of the century.

Quoting StickShaker (Reply 21):
Think its all a load of bollocks.

For the reasons you've outlined and a whole lot more, I couldn't have summed it up any better than that. These guys are a complete joke.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
25 Bond007 : That's why the nose looks a little different, and is painted black ... it's solid lead. I understand the pax are seated 6-abreast at the front of the
26 Planemaker : This aircraft really is a silly joke.. and an unfortunate scam for gullible investors. In addition to the many posts above on why this aircraft is no
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