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2 Arrested At ATL With Hidden Knives/razor Blades  
User currently offlineUTA_flyinghigh From Tunisia, joined Oct 2001, 6495 posts, RR: 50
Posted (7 years 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9151 times:

Anyone else seen this :
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/14477433/detail.html

ATLANTA -- Authorities are investigating why two men tried to sneak knives and other weapons onto a flight from Atlanta to New York.

One of the men even made it through security and onto the Delta Air Lines flight.

Authorities also found 20 small knives wrapped in tin foil. And upon searching Patel's bag three more times, they found razor blades hidden in the battery compartment of a toy car.

Shakarabhai Patel, 64, who was traveling with Chhaganbhai Patel had already made it through security and onto the flight, which was bound for New York and then to India. Officials did not immediately indicate the relationship between the two men.

The plane was brought back to the gate and police said they found a box cutter and $5,000 cash in the second man's bag.


Was something major averted here ?

UTA  checkeredflag 


Fly to live, live to fly - Air France/KLM Flying Blue Platinum, BMI Diamond Club Gold, Emirates Skywards
61 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11455 posts, RR: 52
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9124 times:

Maybe, but I really think this is the kind of thing that shouldn't be reported.


Send me a PM at http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/sendmessage.main?from_username=NULL
User currently offlinePITops From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1442 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9126 times:

How did they find the knives if he was already on the plane?


Ground Ops, Southwest Airlines, CMH
User currently offlineLaddb From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 220 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9107 times:

Quoting UTA_flyinghigh (Thread starter):
Was something major averted here ?

Probably not. My guess is they just did not want to throw them away and stupidly thought they could hide them. There are many more just plain idiots in the world than terrorists. The other major probability is the media has it all wrong.


User currently offlineCharlipr From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2005, 340 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9083 times:

But the big question is.....Why did it make through TSA???? Maybe Kip Hawley will come out with a press release saying that the TSO's did not think that those "knives" were a threat, like his other excuses he has made up throughout the years. That is another proof that the so called "security" that we have, is not real security!!!! It is just some make-up to make people think that we are flying on "secure" planes/flights.

TSA = Bunch of incompetent losers!!!!


User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9052 times:

Quoting Charlipr (Reply 4):
But the big question is.....Why did it make through TSA???? Maybe Kip Hawley will come out with a press release saying that the TSO's did not think that those "knives" were a threat, like his other excuses he has made up throughout the years. That is another proof that the so called "security" that we have, is not real security!!!! It is just some make-up to make people think that we are flying on "secure" planes/flights.

TSA = Bunch of incompetent losers!!!!

Couldn't agree more. All we've created with TSA is the illusion of better security, not real security improvements.


User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8995 times:

Quoting UTA_flyinghigh (Thread starter):
Was something major averted here ?

i doubt it..Patel is Indian Hindu name..more liely a couple of nitwits.

Quoting D L X (Reply 1):
Maybe, but I really think this is the kind of thing that shouldn't be reported.

I agree


User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3594 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8996 times:

Quoting Charlipr (Reply 4):
But the big question is.....Why did it make through TSA???? Maybe Kip Hawley will come out with a press release saying that the TSO's did not think that those "knives" were a threat, like his other excuses he has made up throughout the years. That is another proof that the so called "security" that we have, is not real security!!!! It is just some make-up to make people think that we are flying on "secure" planes/flights.

TSA = Bunch of incompetent losers!!!!



Quoting PITops (Reply 2):
How did they find the knives if he was already on the plane?

If you would spare the time to read the linked article, It appears that the large cache of knives and razor blades WERE indeed caught at the security check-point. The other passenger apparently was a travelling companion of some sort had $USD 5,000 in cash and a single box cutter that was smuggled through security and on to the plane. The plane was apparently recalled to the gate prior to take-off to re-search and investigate the travelling companion, where the box cutter was found.


User currently offlinePITops From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1442 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8983 times:

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 7):
If you would spare the time to read the linked article, It appears that the large cache of knives and razor blades WERE indeed caught at the security check-point. The other passenger apparently was a travelling companion of some sort had $USD 5,000 in cash and a single box cutter that was smuggled through security and on to the plane. The plane was apparently recalled to the gate prior to take-off to re-search and investigate the travelling companion, where the box cutter was found.

Thought they found more knives on the other guy while on the plane. Didn't really say they were linked.



Ground Ops, Southwest Airlines, CMH
User currently offlineAirTranTUS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8968 times:

Quoting Charlipr (Reply 4):
But the big question is.....Why did it make through TSA????

Well, only one guy made it through, the other one was caught. So TSA is only half-incompetent.


User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8939 times:

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 7):
The other passenger apparently was a travelling companion of some sort had $USD 5,000 in cash and a single box cutter that was smuggled through security and on to the plane.

What is TSA's excuse for missing a Box cutter during screening?


User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9644 posts, RR: 68
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8937 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Why are they making an issue of having $5k cash.

Big deal. Not against the law. Like somehow this makes the guy more sinister  Yeah sure


User currently offlineCharlipr From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2005, 340 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8919 times:

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 7):
If you would spare the time to read the linked article, It appears that the large cache of knives and razor blades WERE indeed caught at the security check-point. The other passenger apparently was a travelling companion of some sort had $USD 5,000 in cash and a single box cutter that was smuggled through security and on to the plane. The plane was apparently recalled to the gate prior to take-off to re-search and investigate the travelling companion, where the box cutter was found.

Ok! So why were box cutters later found on the other person??? Again, IT MADE IT THROUGH TSA!!!! Remember what those guys used that infamous day in the history of this country, let me remind you BOX CUTTERS!!!!! Don't you think BOX CUTTERS would be on the priority list for TSA to look after!!!! Actually, I was going thru ATL in Sept, and I caught a TSO, operating the X-Ray machine, falling asleep!!! I wanted to take a picture, but my camera was not within reach and also did not want to spark any controversy (i.e. taking pics of "security") which would have probably landed me in jail. I literally saw him close his eyes and keep his hand on the button allowing bags to go through with him not even checking it!!!! Now that is absurd!!!! So I went up to the supervisor and said, the TSO on lane 11 is falling asleep and they quickly went to talk to him.


User currently offlineUTA_flyinghigh From Tunisia, joined Oct 2001, 6495 posts, RR: 50
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8898 times:

Quoting Charlipr (Reply 4):
But the big question is.....Why did it make through TSA????

They were busy with the pax that had been SSSSed  Silly

UTA  checkeredflag 



Fly to live, live to fly - Air France/KLM Flying Blue Platinum, BMI Diamond Club Gold, Emirates Skywards
User currently offlineGeorgiaAME From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 987 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8856 times:

Quoting Charlipr (Reply 4):
But the big question is.....Why did it make through TSA????



Quoting Halls120 (Reply 10):
What is TSA's excuse for missing a Box cutter during screening?

Sorry, if you so much as ask the question, you don't deserve an answer.

I find the packed razor blades in a toy very disturbing. I can half see an idiot trying to get his prize knife collection onto an aircraft, but box cutter(s) and concealed razor blades? I have been saying for years, we are lucky with these bozos in charge that nothing has happened since 9/11. I don't care that their names are "Hindu". I am sure political correctness demanded that they not be screened as thoroughly as say a grandmother from Sweden, pushing a baby carriage.

"It doth reek to high heaven!" [Hamlet]



"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
User currently offlineLHRBlueSkies From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 493 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8806 times:

Quoting D L X (Reply 1):
this is the kind of thing that shouldn't be reported.

Why? To prevent mass hysteria, or cover up the facts?

Quoting Charlipr (Reply 4):
Why did it make through TSA????

Simple - because they were not doing their jobs properly.

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 7):
the large cache of knives and razor blades WERE indeed caught at the security check-point. The other passenger apparently was a travelling companion of some sort had $USD 5,000 in cash and a single box cutter that was smuggled through security

And letting a box cutter through is allowed / excusable / not an issue?! Jeez, give me a break!

The security at LHR gets criticized for being slow and a pain in the butt, and far more intense than anywhere else, but that's because we are still a major target for idiots or all persuasion, that the "it's never going to happen to me" methology is kicked into touch with a few sharp reminders (Lockerbie, GLA, etc) and we get checked on a daily basis by the DfT and a private monitoring company, and any breaches treated extremely seriously, and staff disciplined or sacked - no excuse. Yes, it could certainly be a whole lot better, but I'd rather that then the shoddy approach by some other 'security' agencies.

The only thing this incident will do is give those power-crazy schmucks at the TSA more argument for bringing in ridiculous rules and procedures....super!



flying is the safest form of transport - until humans get involved!
User currently offlineBR715-A1-30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8780 times:

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 14):
"It doth reek to high heaven!" [Hamlet]

A-MEN!! BROTHER!!!!


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21547 posts, RR: 59
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8707 times:

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 5):
Couldn't agree more. All we've created with TSA is the illusion of better security, not real security improvements.

On 9/11, each group of hijackers all got aboard. Not one was stopped.

But what if 2 out of each 5 were caught at security? 3 out of 5? Would they still have been able to take over the planes?

Security doesn't have to be 100% perfect to have an impact. Part of the TSA buildup was to disrupt plans like 9/11 from being executed. Part of being a martyr is not being caught and spending your life in prison. The added likelihood of being caught has led to these crazies looking to other methods of attack.

If this were some kind of plot, it seems like they found the guy with all the knives, and found his traveling partner as well, and they actually did their job. Not sure why people are blaming them for actually finding the guy?

But a 65 year old guy... probably not dangerous even with knives.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineFlysherwood From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 1115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8684 times:

People bitch and moan about how long the security lines are and how long it takes, yet when something gets missed, which will happen with the sheer number of bags that are to be looked at, everybody wants to know how the heck something was missed. I would love for you to try being the screener for one day and see how much you love it. What part of the fact that we have not had another major event since 9/11 do you not understand?  Yeah sure

Quoting Charlipr (Reply 4):
TSA = Bunch of incompetent losers!!!!

 no   no 

I am not a particular fan of the TSA as it is a hassle to not be able to travel with anything but 3oz. containers of liquid but I am amazed that nothing big has happened. Give them credit people.


User currently offlineJpax From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1019 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8652 times:

On the bright side...two old guys with knives versus an airline full of passengers ready to kill anyone who threatens their lives...well, you get the picture.  Wink

User currently offlineBigOrange From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2374 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 8571 times:

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 6):
Quoting UTA_flyinghigh (Thread starter):
Was something major averted here ?

i doubt it..Patel is Indian Hindu name..more liely a couple of nitwits

AFAIK most Patels are from the Gujarat area of India and are muslim..at least the many Patels I know are.

Quoting D L X (Reply 1):
Maybe, but I really think this is the kind of thing that shouldn't be reported.

Why?? Because it shows the system up for what it really is....Total BS


User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3594 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 8553 times:

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 10):
What is TSA's excuse for missing a Box cutter during screening?

I was merely correcting several posts that stated incorrect information.

Quoting Charlipr (Reply 12):
Ok! So why were box cutters later found on the other person???

And some people continue to make misstatements of fact in exagerrating the weapons that got through. (There were no plural "boxcutters" that were smuggled through, only a single box cutter).

I am in no way excusing TSA for letting a single box cutter get through, but I do not believe in letting people get away with using exagerrations in their hysterical rants.

Quoting LHRBlueSkies (Reply 15):
And letting a box cutter through is allowed / excusable / not an issue?! Jeez, give me a break!

Where did I excuse anything? I only stated the facts as they were reported in the link (that many of the commenters were appaerntly too busy to actually read).

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 17):

 checkmark 

A rational train of thought!

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 14):
I find the packed razor blades in a toy very disturbing. I can half see an idiot trying to get his prize knife collection onto an aircraft, but box cutter(s) and concealed razor blades?

That part bothered me too. At least that was the guy they did stop at security.


User currently offlineCharlipr From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2005, 340 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 8516 times:

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 18):
Give them credit people

I can't give them credit when they come up with stupid rules like the 3-1-1. Take for example this morning CNN had a reporter doing a special on "Airline Frustration." He was explaning that he forgot to put a little bottle of 3oz cream in the plastic bag. Anyways, he took it out and put it in the bin and was told that he would have to through it away because it was not in a plastic bag. WHAT THE F****K DOES THE PLASTIC BAG DO DIFFERENTLY WHEN SCREENING THE 3oz. BOTTLE!!!! He explained to the TSO that it was the same 3oz bottle, he just forgot a bag and there was none at the security checkpoint. Well he threw it away anyways. Ok, now, everyday I see the concession stands putting packs of water and other liquids thru the X-RAY machine so they can sell them past security. What is the difference between the water that the concession stand is putting thru security, from the one that I just bought outside security??? IT'S THE SAME FREAKING BOTTLE. BUT FOR SOME REASON BECAUSE I TOUCHED IT, NOW THE X-RAY MACHINE CANNOT DETECT LIQUID EXPLOSIVE'S!!!! C'mon, give me a freaking break!!!! That is the non-sense that I don't understand. So by allowing those multiple packs of water go through the X-RAY they are "saying" that our machines are good enough for 24/12oz bottles of water all tighlty packed, but not good enough for the 3oz bottle of gel that I forgot to put on a stupid baggy!!!!! So, I ask one question, is the TSA not worried about the Duty Free Liqour/Drinks that are sold thru security? Don't you think that an organized terror group would catch on and probably be able to pay-off somebody to stack bottles of "wine" in the racks with liquid explosive and have some militants buy those specific bottles and use them in the way we would not like!!!! Now the other thing that I don't understand is, what is the freaking reason why the x-ray machine not able to "scan" the 1 quart bag with 3oz bottles inside the hand luggage, but is capable of doing it outside of the hand luggage in a bin.


User currently offlineHaggis79 From Germany, joined Jun 2006, 1096 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 8502 times:

maybe, before getting all havoc on if those mens might have been muslim or not, one should actually mention that the article in question starts with the statement that "Authorities said they have ruled out terrorism" in this incident... or are you trying to  stirthepot ?  Yeah sure


300 310 319/20/21 332/3 343 AT4/7 143 B19 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 742/4 752/3 763/4 77E/W CR2/7/9 D95 E45/70 F50 F70 100 M11 M90
User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11455 posts, RR: 52
Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 8424 times:

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 11):
Why are they making an issue of having $5k cash.

Big deal. Not against the law. Like somehow this makes the guy more sinister

I think that adds to suspicion that wrongdoing is afoot. If you're carrying $5000 in cash... and you're a rap star, then you're not suspicious. (Maybe of smoking dope, but that's about it on a plane.) If you're carrying $5000 in cash, and you're heading to Vegas, then you're not suspicious. But the game changes when you're carrying weapons and $5000 in cash.

And remember, you waive your fourth amendment rights when you enter the secure zone of an airport.


And the two questions about why I think this should not be reported:

Quoting LHRBlueSkies (Reply 15):
Why? To prevent mass hysteria, or cover up the facts?



Quoting BigOrange (Reply 20):
Why?? Because it shows the system up for what it really is....Total BS

No. While preventing hysteria is usually a good idea (especially when you have the crooks in custody), the biggest reason to not tell the world that you've caught people is if you believe them to be members of a conspiracy. Operations security, also known as "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush." If the other conspirators don't know that one of their colleagues has been caught, they will more likely continue doing what they are doing, giving authorities a better chance at catching them in the act. As Clickhappy noted, there's nothing illegal about carrying $5000 around on a plane. But what if all the conspirators had $5k today? If you noticed that someone had a briefcase of money, it might be a good reason to stop them and give them a more detailed search. BUT, if they know that one of their crime partners has been caught, don't you think they would probably call of the rest of the acts until the coast is clear?



Send me a PM at http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/sendmessage.main?from_username=NULL
25 MeanGreen : Charlipr, I understand your frustrations but you shouldn't take it out on the front line screeners. They are given a procedure to do and they do it. Y
26 Post contains images Flysherwood : Again, what part of NO major incident since 9/11 do you NOT UNDERSTAND? Is it the man on the line the ones that makes the rules? NO. Is it his fault
27 Evan767 : Some people in this thread need to go to Anger Management. Cry to them about your problem with TSA, not us.
28 Post contains images LAXspotter : probably a very naive Indian for all of you who dont know, Patel is a purely Indian name hailing from the State of Gujrat, has nothing to with Terror
29 D L X : And terrorists have to be arabs or muslims? I know you don't believe that, so I'm not going to accuse you of it. But think about what you said.
30 LAXspotter : no, no, no. I'm just saying before they accuse the "Patel's" of being alleged "Muslim Terrorists". Anyone can be a terrorist, you dont have to look a
31 LHRBlueSkies : Dear All, there are several issues being raised here - here's my 2nd 2 cents worth! Don't discount anyone because of their age - may I ask how old the
32 HAMAD : i understand the big deal about the knives, but why are they making big deal of the $5000? I my self when i go international i carry large amount of c
33 Flysherwood : I don't mean to blame the British parts of the terrorist network for all of the state of security just the recent ban on liquids being brought on boa
34 LHRBlueSkies : And do you know just how close we came to having 10 a/c brought down over the atlantic? If you did, then maybe you'd be more understanding of why liq
35 Flysherwood : Ummm... If you read my posts closely, I am very supportive of the bans and the rules. You must be talking about the guy that I was arguing with... I
36 Analog : Why should they have been stopped? I don't think they were carrying anything against the rules. See; my magic anti-terrorism rock is working!
37 Post contains images Indy : Fortunately they stopped that bottle of shampoo from getting through The whole gel and liquid thing is as stupid as it gets. I'd like to see a powder
38 Halls120 : First of all, the reason the 9/11 hijackers were successful was NOT because of lax gate security. The hijackings were successful because airline poli
39 QF74 : LHRBlueSkies: I'm new here but if had made enough posts, you would be on my respected users list. Thanks for giving a fair and balanced account of air
40 SCUMBAG : Patel !!!! Just look in your phone book!! Patel is the MOST common Indian Hundi name in the world.... Still no assurance they were not up to no good,
41 DTWAGENT : I can only speak about the money found. If you are carring that much money you are to declare it before leaving the country you got it in. And then de
42 SCUMBAG : $5000 now Thats a lot of slerpies and beef jerkies! The knives were to remove transplant organs for sale back in the usa?
43 Continental180 : Its just scary of what this has become....its truely sad
44 Vald : WHY?
45 Vald : DON'T GO NUTS. This is a no story. press gone mad!
46 LAXspotter : No kidding, but Patel can also be a Muslim name according to my friend. BTW, it really doesnt matter what his name or country of origin is. Anyone ca
47 Vald : And maybe !, this man is an older gentleman just going home to his native land. it is what YOU WANT IT TO BE......take it eazy,
48 Vald : lads, in the 1940's certain names got you on trains. in the 1800's certain names got you burnt at a stake. my friend this, my friend that! this is b*
49 Roadrunner165 : Whats you point? The problem with the TSA is there are few checks and balances. TSA agents have a lot of authority and often abuse their powers. Quit
50 Soon7x7 : I'm just waiting for the day when TSA catches some character mueling an explosive device up his rectum...imagine what we'll all be subject to then...t
51 Jetsa : I agree with you entirely.
52 Philcresci : Wow...I think this is pretty serious and I am GLAD it was reported...I am traveling to ATL tom. and want to know to be more aware of whats going on...
53 NwAflyer07 : I love that rule! Now the terrorists will be forced to smuggle on 3 ounces of a chemical or virus in a liquified form and distribute it on an aircraf
54 WPIAeroGuy : You all are blaming the TSA for this, what about the idiots who brought the knives on the plane in the first place? I can't beleive people are actuall
55 PIA777 : Not always a Hindu name but the first names sound Hindu to me. I know a couple of Pakistani-Muslims who are Patel. PIA777
56 Post contains links and images Luv2cattlecall : I have to give you credit for implying the obvious - but taboo thing to say - that in all likelihood, terrorists tend to be Muslim or something simil
57 Post contains images PipoA380 : ...and real longer lines at airports...
58 Bobnwa : Who is making an issue of it. just mentioning it does not make it an issue.
59 DLPMMM : The reason for the liquids rule was that terrorist plots were uncovered using liquid explosives. So many here are saying that since security cannot b
60 LH526 : No ... not until he passes them on to a trained 25 seated two rows behind who went through screening without hassle! Mario LH526
61 Post contains images DLPMMM : NO! It is all your fault because you knowingly slept with somone with AIDS, and everyone knows (or should know) that condoms are not 100% effective.
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