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Skybus Cities...  
User currently offlineUncgso From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 345 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4325 times:

Was browsing the net and ran upon this "article" dated back in April about the "initial" cities to be served by Skybus. I find this interesting considering the recent announcements. Check it out:

http://www.onlinetravelreview.com/on...eview/2007/04/an_otr_exclusiv.html

71 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4322 times:

SAN is already a done deal. I saw their ticket counter at T2 on Oct 17th. It is right next to AA's, but there is only 1 check-in kiosk in front of the SX ticket counter.

T2_Map_Apr07.pdf" target=_blank>http://www.san.org/documents/maps/SDIA_T2_Map_Apr07.pdf



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineItsnotfinals From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 4105 times:

They are pulling out of SAN, OAK and BL in March.


They are keeping 1x CMH-BUR and adding 1x GSO-BUR at least.


User currently offlineFLYB6JETS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4038 times:

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 2):
They are pulling out of SAN, OAK and BL in March.

Uhh, BLI is done Jan 6th there big guy...


User currently offlineItsnotfinals From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4036 times:

Quoting FLYB6JETS (Reply 3):
Uhh, BLI is done Jan 6th there big guy...

oops my bad..thanks big guy.


User currently offlineFLYB6JETS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4031 times:

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 4):
oops my bad..thanks big guy

Always glad to be of service  bigthumbsup 


User currently offlineThegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2311 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3828 times:

Is there a chance they'll serve RDU?


Our Returning Champion
User currently offlineBlueElephant From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 1813 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3673 times:

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 2):
They are pulling out of SAN, OAK and BL in March.

Are they really Pulling out of OAK??....I thought they were going to keep OAK, and 1 BUR flight from CMH...

If so kinda dissapointed...  Sad


But in regards to the thread...I think the OP is trying to suggest that they gave out most of the Initial Destinations before even starting annoucing a number of them...So based on them then...

Cancun and Nassau would be next which is what We've pretty much known anyway...Interesting...

Thanks for that link!


User currently offlineSkyyMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3604 times:

Quoting ThegreatRDU (Reply 6):
Is there a chance they'll serve RDU?

Doubtful, GSO is too close. Plus RDU has quite a few LCC options already, GSO does not.

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 7):
Cancun and Nassau would be next which is what We've pretty much known anyway...Interesting...

Since these cities were announced quite a while back, it makes no sense to me why they haven't got schedules loaded yet. Two big winter vacation destinations that could be potential cash cows. If they wait until spring, other than college spring breakers, not that many people are going to be going to those destinations. Pre-Memorial Day loads are usually light on airlines. They are missing a big chance here to prove themselves.


User currently offline7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3602 times:

How many airports does Skybus use jetbridges? I know there are a few but am curious to know. thanks  Smile


The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
User currently offlineQuagmire123 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 89 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3596 times:

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 2):
They are pulling out of SAN, OAK and BL in March.

Where did you get that SX was pulling out of OAK? That destination is still there to stay for now. They only droped San Diego, Bellingham, and 1 of the 2 Burbank flights out of CMH....but they are having 1 Burbank flight from GSO.


User currently offlineItsnotfinals From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3582 times:

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 7):
If so kinda dissapointed...

Sorry about the confusion , it's only SAN and BLI.


User currently offlineRICguy From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3497 times:

Quoting 7E72004 (Reply 9):
How many airports does Skybus use jetbridges? I know there are a few but am curious to know. thanks

I know in the past they have used the jetway at gate B15 @ RIC. They now use gate B5 and I am unsure if they still use the jetway though.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3491 times:

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 2):
They are pulling out of SAN....

Holy Guacamole! Why? Isn't SAN a huge tourist destination by almost every airline??



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineSkyyMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3480 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 13):
Holy Guacamole! Why? Isn't SAN a huge tourist destination by almost every airline??

Makes no sense to me. Obviously the loads must be bad, or that CMH is just not much of an O&D city for SAN. Dropping cities so soon, before you get a chance to build up a client base and reputation doesn't make much sense to me. They obviously think the pastures are greener in Florida, Newburgh, and Chattanooga.


User currently offlineItsnotfinals From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3433 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 13):
SAN a huge tourist destination by almost every airline??

Skybus made a point of adjusting their small fleet to pick up GSO service and PSM Flordia service and they just don't have enough planes (only 7 by the time they start SWF in January) to serve 17 cities whlle tying up an 1 plane for each west coast turn for 10 hours a day (block)

It's pretty straight forward route and equipment management although it's been seriously blown into wild speculation on anet (IMHO) that it's a sign of imminent failure.

With as much money as B6 had at start up this little airline has deep pockets and is being very careful in how they grow, much like B6 did when they started.

[Edited 2007-11-03 19:57:27]

User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5604 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3360 times:

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 15):
Skybus made a point of adjusting their small fleet to pick up GSO service and PSM Flordia service and they just don't have enough planes (only 7 by the time they start SWF in January) to serve 17 cities whlle tying up an 1 plane for each west coast turn for 10 hours a day (block)

If this was in fact the case, I would expect SX would have perhaps "temporarily suspended" op's at SAN & BLI (or at least worded their action as such) until a few more of their 60+ planes show up. I have no idea if the term used by the airline really matters in the long run as far as the airport is concerned, e.g., could the airport "hold their space" for a limited time in order to assure the airline will have space when they return (maybe more of an issue at Lindbergh than at BLI?) but I would think it might.

I can't imagine that at some point down the road -- assuming there is a future for SX and considering their announced fleet size -- SkyBus would not want or need to return to both SAN and the Seattle-area. There's also the consideration of the cost of wasted effort involved in a start-up having to then be repeated?

Despite how the airport must view such a quick departure as an indication of failed service, I would think that if a new airline is seriously considering returning to a dropped city, p r-wise it would be much better to "temporarily suspend" service than just leave. That would indicate to me support of the theory mentioned by Itsnotfinals (repeated at the beginning of this post) whereas just quiting might imply more dire reasons for the move.

I am not an SX-supporter but I must admit that them pulling out of my airport certainly does not enhance my feelings about them. I also must assume that most people who would fly SX probably do not harbor airline loyalty so continuity of service is perhaps not important. So, in the end, SX probably doesn't worry much about it either.

bb


User currently offlineKcrwFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3847 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3354 times:

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 15):
It's pretty straight forward route and equipment management although it's been seriously blown into wild speculation on anet (IMHO) that it's a sign of imminent failure.

Nothing gets blown way out or proportion due to wild speculation on a.net.... no way  Yeah sure

Quoting SANFan (Reply 16):
Despite how the airport must view such a quick departure as an indication of failed service,

Actually, unlike most of us on a.net, the folks at the airport more than likely know exactly why SkyBus left.

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 14):
Makes no sense to me. Obviously the loads must be bad, or that CMH is just not much of an O&D city for SAN. Dropping cities so soon, before you get a chance to build up a client base and reputation doesn't make much sense to me.

I dont see how dropping a city that uses up valuable hours of an aircraft that could be running multiple routes in the time it takes to fly to SAN and back is an obvious sign of bad loads, or a sign that CMH is a bad O&D city for SAN. For all we know the flight could have made a profit. Maybe their research shows that flying 3 routes in the time you were flying 1 can make more money?

Dropping the cities sooner could actually be better than dropping them later. Dropping them now, without a real client base means they're not bailing out on a large client base. If they were to wait longer and bail out, there would be more people aware of them, thus more people with a negative opinion of them.


User currently offlineItsnotfinals From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3298 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 16):
would think that if a new airline is seriously considering returning to a dropped city, p r-wise it would be much better to "temporarily suspend" service than just leave.

SFO didn't seem to have an issue when WN came back after a few years absence.


User currently offlineSkyyMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3284 times:

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 17):
I dont see how dropping a city that uses up valuable hours of an aircraft that could be running multiple routes in the time it takes to fly to SAN and back is an obvious sign of bad loads, or a sign that CMH is a bad O&D city for SAN. For all we know the flight could have made a profit. Maybe their research shows that flying 3 routes in the time you were flying 1 can make more money?

I agree to a certain extent. However, it seems like poor route planning by SX to start out operating to west coast cities initially with such a small fleet, then dropping some so soon. It doesn't exactly build up consumer confidence in those places should they decide to return. IMO, they should have started with the original Florida destinations and then added various other eastern destinations they are now. Then as new planes arrived, they could have made a push westward. I dare say whatever brand loyalty they may have built at SAN and BLI is pretty much gone. To go back would cost money to reopen the station, and they'd most likely have to heavily discount seats to win back pax. I've always though one flight a day makes no sense, which is why I think they erred in trying too many transcon destination at startup.


User currently offlineGregarious119 From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 534 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3274 times:

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 19):
I agree to a certain extent. However, it seems like poor route planning by SX to start out operating to west coast cities initially with such a small fleet, then dropping some so soon. It doesn't exactly build up consumer confidence in those places should they decide to return. IMO, they should have started with the original Florida destinations and then added various other eastern destinations they are now. Then as new planes arrived, they could have made a push westward. I dare say whatever brand loyalty they may have built at SAN and BLI is pretty much gone. To go back would cost money to reopen the station, and they'd most likely have to heavily discount seats to win back pax. I've always though one flight a day makes no sense, which is why I think they erred in trying too many transcon destination at startup.

Part of me wonders if they chose the West-coast flights based on incentives giving to them by Port Columbus for starting that non-stop service. Now that they've been running for 6 months or so, they're probably realizing what KcrwFlyer was talking about...that they can make more money on a r/t to GSO, PSM, and PGD in the same time they can do one CMH-SAN-CMH routing.

It may be that the increased profits on those shorter runs outweighs what CMH was giving them for the longer runs...


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3249 times:

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 18):
SFO didn't seem to have an issue when WN came back after a few years absence.

That's because OAK is next door. So WN really didn't go anywhere...



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineSkyyMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3245 times:

Quoting Gregarious119 (Reply 20):
Part of me wonders if they chose the West-coast flights based on incentives giving to them by Port Columbus for starting that non-stop service

Makes sense. GSO is giving them a ton of money to build up there. They need to find their core destinations and stick with them if they want to become a player however. They can't get by on incentives alone. If they pull out of any other destinations they got $$$ from, it's not likely other airports would be willing to lay out the expenditures to attract them when there may be an uncertainty that they will stay.


User currently offlineItsnotfinals From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3245 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 21):
That's because OAK is next door. So WN really didn't go anywhere

you forgot SJC.  Smile

As someone who spent excessive time in the bay area, there is a huge difference between SFO and OAK depending on the time of day and where you are coming from.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5604 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3148 times:

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 18):
SFO didn't seem to have an issue when WN came back after a few years absence.

I think it's quite different. I really don't think WN planned on returning to SFO when they left and, as has been said, they did stay in the 2 "neighboring" cities. (After all, they have been gone from SFO for nearly 7 years.)

As I said before, I find it very hard to believe that with 60+ airplanes due, SX is not planning to fly to the entire west coast again (and if they do, I would certainly think that would include SAN and BLI.) And, as I and Skyy' both posted here, you lose a lot of customers' faith when you pull out of a city so fast and then try to come crawling back a couple of years later. (And I think the last thing SX needs to do is lose a single repeat customer.)

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 17):
Actually, unlike most of us on a.net, the folks at the airport more than likely know exactly why SkyBus left

No question that this a very true statement; but if we had the real reasons for airline moves (either from the airline or the airport folks) we probably wouldn't be here, nor would A.net even exist!

Sorry but I still don't think this was smart and I don't think it bodes well for a rosy future for the bus.

bb


25 DeltaAVL : Are you kidding? GSO is a focus city of SX's; it would make no sense at all to invade RDU. Nope, there is ZERO chance of SX serving RDU.
26 Timberwolf24 : A few weeks ago there was a report that SX was looking at GYY, anyone have any more info/speculation on if or when this might happen?
27 Post contains images KcrwFlyer : It'd exist. Instead of arguing about what we thought was going on, we'd be arguing about what was actually happening and whether we agreed with the d
28 7E72004 : Has anyone on here had any problems when flying Skybus? It seems that considering the amount of flights they have to many cities (1x per day), that if
29 Post contains images Jpax : Flew into PDG today, the terminal is coming along nicely... although the widespread construction makes taxiing around the airport interesting for firs
30 DTWAGENT : Sounds to me like this airlines does not know what they are doing. They go into a city for a few weeks and then pull out. How can they test that marke
31 BillReid : Itsnotfinals is once again a little off base. (as was his OAK closing comments) The CEO openly stated to the Columbus press that they were getting ou
32 Post contains images Itsnotfinals : At least read my posts, that is exactly what I posted for the last 2 weeks, realigning assets to maximize profits which you then said was a sign of t
33 BlueElephant : Sorry Bill, I read the CEO's comments completely differently.... How about you translate it this way...They are getting out of the long-haul market b
34 BillReid : Then you are contradicting yourself?? What part of ordering 60 aircraft and not being able to maintain the first stations do you not get. By pulling
35 Itsnotfinals : So why did they keep OAK and net exchange GSO- BUR for 1 CMH-BUR? the facts are: 7 aircraft in January Adding SWF Adding GSO Adding PSM frequencies h
36 BillReid : No I said Rasm with PLF. Please explain the value in burning good will? (Negative value) Gee, It took three months to figure out short haul is better
37 KcrwFlyer : With all due respect, what successful airline are you running these days? I guess if you were running things at SkyBus you'd stay in these markets ju
38 BillReid : JetBlue is established. SX is not. You assume profits. Illogical response, I have yet to find any airline in start-up mode that kills profitable rout
39 Itsnotfinals : Actually they have been almost 3 years already. But you were a consultant to them over a year ago so you should know that? "http://www.airliners.net/
40 BillReid : They have not been in the air more than six months. From a consumer perspective they have been around for only six months. Perhaps ten for booking pur
41 Itsnotfinals : how much would it cost to start up an airline like Skybus in your opinion? Jet blue wasn't established when they started either, what is the point? No
42 SkyguyB727 : I was surprised to see SX announce service to MKE. Given their history of serving major cities through distant, secondary airports, I would have expec
43 Uncgso : Notice out of the list of cities in the article, Burbank, Bellingham (north of Seattle), Westover Air Base (Springfield, MA - Hartford's secondary (?)
44 BlueElephant : FLD and MTW are too far north. I bet they started service to MKE to attract passengers to/from Northern Chicago, as well as Milwaukee. I could see th
45 Gregarious119 : With any due respect, BillReid, you seem to be bringing more people out of the woodwork in support of SX because your responses are coming across as
46 SkyyMaster : More profitable? Where is there any eveidence of any profit at all? One of this threads more vocal posters keeps declaring they are profitable, yet t
47 Itsnotfinals : Conversely no one knows if they are losing any money. You have to stop to ask yourself, did GSO give millions of incentives to SX without dong due di
48 SkyyMaster : If SX is depending on incentives from airports as a source of income, then that's not going to last forever. GSO like many airports has been begging
49 BravoGolf : Wake up call everyone. This was their origional intent but may be changing.
50 Itsnotfinals : Their business plan is not public, so this is again wild speculation. Any business person knows that incentives are earned credits not cash, you can'
51 USAirALB : any chance SKYBUS to ALB?
52 JetBlueJackets : what happened to NAS and CUN??
53 Itsnotfinals : no announced start date yet. Still on the "drawing board" apparently
54 SkyyMaster : Just a hunch, but my guess never. They are cutting flights already due to a shortage/redeployment of planes, yet keep announcing new domestic ops. If
55 Itsnotfinals : Their target demographic is probably priced out of NAS , CUN a little bit so, but at least they are expanding Florida which is much more in-line with
56 SkyyMaster : Probably so, then why announce them as destinations at all, if they are not within SX's targeted business? Seems to me another strike against them fo
57 BillReid : Millions... I would guess that Skybus has already burned through 50%-65% of their cash reserves. You need to get certified which means a year of payi
58 Itsnotfinals : Yet they kept OAK and BUR. Can you elaborate on why this is "worry some" It's actually "Kool Aid" So keeping a less profitable route cancels the oppo
59 Gregarious119 : You're assuming they've had no additional investment, and have no idea how much they're pulling in through advertising. Although your list had good t
60 BillReid : It seams you assume unlimited financing? Factually WRONG. Everyone has a boss in business? The money is NOT thier own, so they cannot simply do as th
61 Gregarious119 : I'm not assuming anything - thank you for attempting to put those words in my mouth. My point is that unless you have access to their board meetings
62 BillReid : Itsnotfinals uses the term "a less profitable route" please see above. I think there are over 50 posts from him with this term. So, according to the
63 Itsnotfinals : Actually it doesn't. Due to accrual based accounting you can actually be cash negative yet profitable due to capitol expenditures , prepaids, and res
64 CitrusCritter : I do not recall SX ever announcing CUN and NAS. Instead, we on A.net discovered they had applied for the route authority.
65 SkyyMaster : I guess I should have worded differently, but it was based upon this thread, since archived. It obviously gives the implication they applied for and
66 7E72004 : Does anyone think Skybus will come to any Indiana cities? I really would like to try them out, but the closest city that they sevrve is Columbus.
67 Brons2 : Billreid, you've made your points that a) the business plan is flawed if they are pulling out of the original startup cities and b) those cities were
68 Gregarious119 : I have a hard time seeing them doing any Indiana cities from CMH, lest it be the ever-discussed GYY. For one, there isn't much in the way of tourism
69 BlueElephant : I still don't understand why you're being so stubborn..It almost seems as if Skybus has hurt you personally...and so you're going out of your way to
70 CitrusCritter : Have we considered that they were "bleeding" on the long-hauls, and so the "bandage" is to ramp-up short-hauls? I just don't see what is so difficult
71 PanAm_DC10 : This thread has turned into a personal debate that is less than constructive. Archived. Thank you.
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