N1786b From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 560 posts, RR: 17 Posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 19239 times:
This morning's Air et Cosmos' Confidentiel page says that Emirates will announce an LOI for 50 A350 XWBs at the Dubai air show. Saying that Emirates" finally realized it didn't have a choice" because Boeing is not ready to offer a 787-10 due to its concentrating on manufacturing issues surrounding the 787. It will order a mix of A350-900ERs and 350-1000.
It will also sign a lease of "around 30" A330s as interim lift. No delivery dates given.
Kappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 19026 times:
What I find most intersting is the mix of aircraft, A350-900ER and A350-1000. No 358 or "regular" a359 if this report is accurate. I guess they can wait untill 2015, and that's the reason for the extra a330's.
BrightCedars From Belgium, joined Nov 2004, 1290 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 18917 times:
I'm seeing Airbus very smartly flooding the market with recent build A330-300X's in the coming years. I think they know what they're doing out here. New A330-300X have excellent economics and will please many leasing companies and small operators and somewhat undermine the B787's. The A330-300X isn't as much of a threat to the A350's as to the B787's, notably also because they are also sold (probably cheap) to operators that anyway order A350's along as a replacement.
As far as EK's huge fleet is concerned, I wouldn't be too surprised to see EKAL (Aircraft Leasing that is) be formed in the coming years, leasing what EK retires early to other operators around the world. With the big money they don't necessarily need to have a 200 wide-body strong fleet, but they can own a sizeable share of the world fleet nonetheless and reap the benefits of that strategic ownership.
Gilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 3055 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 18903 times:
Great news and pleased to see the A350 orders still gathering strength!
The alarm bells must be ringing at Boeing, to pull their fingers out and make a decison about the 787-1000. They really need to finalise plans for this aircraft, as they have potentially lost two very large orders for this aircraft from EK and QR.
Quoting WINGS (Reply 4): but I am even more pleased to the the A330 included and wonder if the A330-300 are among their plans?
Same as you, if this order is genuine I am thrilled to see more A330, coming for EK. I also hope they are A330-300's! This aircraft is going from strength to strength!
Is it likely the A330's will be an additional order or is there a leasing company with 30 suplus aircraft?
OceansWorld From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 18458 times:
Quoting Danny (Reply 11): Quoting PM (Reply 10):
Quoting Danny (Reply 9):
Who is leasing the SQ ones?
I doubt it. Airbus is not a lessor and they seem to be rather in cash deficit that surplus these days.
To fill the Airline's capacity requirements on an interim basis until the delivery of new aircraft ordered from the two manufacturers, Singapore Airlines will enter into a lease arrangement with Airbus for 19 A330-300 aircraft for delivery from early 2009 until late 2010.
Keesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 18300 times:
Quoting Karan69 (Reply 1): the A330s are a surprise though considering their current ones are not even 7 years old
I dont't think so .
The A330 is about the only option if you want to add significant 250-300 seat medium/long haul capasity before 2013-2015.
The 787 is sold out / stops at ~280 seats, the XWB is years away, the 763 and 772 have questionable CASM for the next 20 yrs on most medium city pairs. E.g a 772ER is 150Lbs heavier then a A333. (per seat).
Scorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 5052 posts, RR: 44
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 18094 times:
Quoting Danny (Reply 16): For a marketing guy lease an Airbus = lease from Airbus.
Well, in this case, they will be leased from Airbus. It has always been announced as such, and Airbus lists the airframes as 'Singapore Airlines' on its orders and deliveries spreadsheet, not some lessor. That clearly indicates they're not selling them to some thrid party lessor, who then leases them to SQ.
Quoting BrightCedars (Reply 6): I'm seeing Airbus very smartly flooding the market with recent build A330-300X's in the coming years. I think they know what they're doing out here. New A330-300X have excellent economics and will please many leasing companies and small operators and somewhat undermine the B787's.
Well if there is plentiful supply of A330s on the market it will lead to many operators becoming ong term airbus customers. Maybe Ryanair will take some cheap ones for their l/h venture!
Sjoerd From Belgium, joined Aug 2003, 361 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 17486 times:
Quoting EI321 (Reply 21): Quoting BrightCedars (Reply 6):
I'm seeing Airbus very smartly flooding the market with recent build A330-300X's in the coming years. I think they know what they're doing out here. New A330-300X have excellent economics and will please many leasing companies and small operators and somewhat undermine the B787's.
They also sort of have to. They need to bridge and keep the line going untill the A350 comes along.
Flanders + Wallonnia + Brussels = the UNITED STATES of BELGIUM
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31433 posts, RR: 85
Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 17423 times:
A333s make sense because EK is supposedly scrapping their 772A fleet by 2011 and I don't see them replacing those planes with 77Ls. The A332 and A343 fleet also leaves by 2013, so I suppose they will be replacing their current A332s with new units.
And when the say A350-900ER, do they mean the A350-900R or are they just appending "ER" to the title because of the range?
Scouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3403 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 17084 times:
Obviously we'll have to wait untill official confirmation but this looks good for a XWB order - I'm guessing that they're going to firm the extra 8 A380s at DXB too.
I wonder if Airbus is going to start to offer frieghter conversions for the A330 as there'll be quite a number floating about in about 7 or 8 years time and converting them to the F model would be a great way to soak up the volumes.
: Pretty sure that the A350 will replace the then aging first batch of 773s as well as some 773ERs as they´ll be past 10 years when the A350 arrive. An
: Didn´ t they want to order 50 + 50 aircraft ? But still I hope this is not a rumor, the A350 needs some more customers (just like the 747-8I).
: NA EK told they will not sign for 747-8Is this year , as they push Boeing to improve it. Also they said more A380s than their current order (55) is ve
: No alarm bells over this. EK has been trying to push Boeing for quite a while, and Boeing hasn't budged. Boeing saw this as EK's attempt to get a bet
: I doubt boeing played this as you state Khobar, as they are an extremely run company. If they did, they would be monumentally stupid to ignore such a
: Even if Boeing offered the 787-10 for sale today, unless a significant number of 787-8 customers canceled in favor of it, Boeing would not be able to
: I would say they are disappointed; Boeing has been talking about a 787-10 for at least a year now, possibly longer and it's still nowhere to be seen;
: I am sure it does, but Boeing is busy trying to meet current demand for the 787, which will likely push 1000 units prior to EIS. A 787HGW will likely
: It is probably the -900R since Airbus does not use the -ER designation on its planes. That used to be a Boeing moniker until the 787 came along.
: Sorry. What I meant to say was maybe the press was the one adding the "ER" to the name, not Airbus. So these would be A350-900s and not A350-900Rs.[E
: ...its the fastest selling widebody in civil aviation history...they can barely keep up with demand..where would the so-called "alarm bells" be? They
: Congrats to Airbus and EK. While not easily predicted as there were two great planes in competition, Airbus did have an advantage capacity wise, and s
: I'll be delighted if this is true - and I expect it is. I still think the A333 would be a great addition to the EK fleet - bin the 772s and the A343s
: In years to come I see lots of retired A330-300s becoming freighters ... and that's good for freight haulers and for Airbus too. The continued trend t
: Airbus ASA have to leasing units: AFS (Airbus Financial Services) and AAMD (Airbus Asset Management Division), AFS for new ac (in conjunction with va
: Airbus is a lessor... Any airline can be a lessor as well - all they have to do is lease a plane or two to another company! SQ will lease the A333s f
: Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 37): Let's see what EK will order. I still remember your words..........and I am just waiting for that day and see what ar
: It would appear that nothing is confirmed currently as this is just a rumour (well substantiated or not). Roll on Dubai!
: Did EK pony up any money? Did they sign a launch order? No, of course not. Boeing said long ago that they would not launch a 787-10 that did not meet
: All due respect mate - but when was the last time I started mouthing off on here and was completely wrong? There have been times, I assure you
: When are the first A350's currently scheduled for delivery? Not that anyone believes any delivery dates anymore. Just kidding! Now that is a good ques
: EK has been pushing Boeing to beef up the 787...good choice on their part to go with the A350's heavier variants. And what can I say about the A333s..
: So true - lots of airchair CEO's here who can't be plaesed. Maybe they think they're Tim Clark I's agree that Boeing is disappointed if this order is
: So much for an ORDER for 100 It looks like Clark is taking a page form Airbus and doing the Leahy backtrack I think Airbus will take their time getti
: Â Â Wait a minute, its the only real efficient 250-300 seater you can buy during this economic boom & still Airbus is supposed to run the line a
: It was UP TO 100. And thats exactly what 50+50 is. We will see. Not bad at all considering that that there is another six years of orders to come bef
: The A350XWB is illogical based on Boeing concentrating on the B787. As the A350XWB hasn't even reached design completion why would anyone assume it wi
: Airbus didn't win this order, it's more like Boeing losing it! I can't believe Boeing let this slip away!
: Not really. The market for aircraft of that size is far larger than either Boeing or Airbus can supply themselves. It's a big sandbox with room for b
: Are we really at the point on A.net where an order for 80 widebodies - a FIRM order if we are to believe the rumor - is "not too bad"??? Are you seri
: Some space there for a later 787-8 order? Spot on on both counts, IMO Regards
: Neither is Boeing Commercial Aircraft, but I believe they do have their own leasing arm in the group, and they even leased a few A340s to EK themselv
: PlanesNTrains just made it to my respected list! This will certainly be one of the biggest commercial aviation orders ever made. Geez ... "not so bad
: Mr Clark speaks again..... Emirates may not sign $20b aircraft order at air show BY ISSAC JOHN (Deputy Business Editor) 3 November 2007 DUBAI %u2014 T
: Not forgetting 30 A330s as well. How many larger, single orders have there ever been?
: Why assume any aircraft will meet its specs? There are performance guarentees. The 787 is just not able to do what Emirates wants as it seems. In the
: So far, of the new plastic planes, we only have firm design specs for the 787-3, -8, -9. Nobody on A.Net knows what the specs are for the 350 because
: More correctly, the -10 that Boeing is currently prepared to offer doesn't seem to be good enough for EK. I can't believe that EK won't end up orderi
: You should quantify that statement with "the only real efficient 250-300 seater for missions at or under 5000nm" because if you desire to fly farther
: Probably for the same reasons that airlines ordered the 787 before design completion. How is it any different?
: That did not stop Boeing to get 700 orders even before the plane took off for the first time. Exactly just look at the numbers of Dc 10s and L1011s a
: Plane has yet to take off for the first time.
: That is what I am trying to say the 787 had no chance yet to show that it lives up to its expectations but with Boeing it is taken for granted that i
: I think you mean to say "this will MAYBE be one of the biggest LOI's" ever placed. Why is it that everyone bends over for Clark? There have been many
: A good point. EK's order, whether it is 50 planes or 100, and whether it goes to Boeing, Airbus, or both, is a nice plum, but it is not the end-all,