Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
BA To Drop Gatwick-Aberdeen  
User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24947 posts, RR: 56
Posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 6517 times:

Apparently, BA are set to drop ABZ-LGW after March 08, presumably due to Houston moving to Heathrow.

Been some rumours about EDI and GLA to LGW being dropped also.

How long until BA have no domestic routes?


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
58 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBY738 From Tonga, joined Sep 2000, 2364 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 6473 times:

BA will not give up their verry lucrative LHR routes from GLA , MAN etc. THe rumours re LGW have been denied. The service from LGW is atrocious with usual delays and cancellations.

User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 2, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 6421 times:

Quoting Gkirk (Thread starter):

How long until BA have no domestic routes?

..you mean "London Airways".. devil 



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineAlbird87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 6372 times:

Wouldnt suprise me if BA does this.... I mean LHR- GLA/EDI/ABZ/MAN are always busy and have a good amount of flights a day between them.

I can just see BA using LGW for the tourist traveller and moving all domestic (of which there aint many now a days!!) services to the fortress that is LHR!!!


User currently offlineSketty222 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 1778 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 6369 times:

Ive heard from BA crew that they intend to restart the LGW-NCL service and may stop the LHR-NCL service. I hope this isnt the case, how am i meant to go on holiday  Smile
The LHR service is always quite busy as well

Lee



There's flying and then there's flying
User currently offlineSam1987 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 946 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 6156 times:

Quoting Gkirk (Thread starter):
Apparently, BA are set to drop ABZ-LGW after March 08, presumably due to Houston moving to Heathrow.

Presumambly this is just a rumour so far?

It wouldn't surprise me if BA dropped some of their domestic routes from LGW, as they need more slots for new leisure flights, now U2 has got their GT slots.

Surely EDI and GLA to LGW can be sustained though? Don't quite a few passengers feed into the long haul leisure flights?

Quoting Sketty222 (Reply 4):
Ive heard from BA crew that they intend to restart the LGW-NCL service and may stop the LHR-NCL service

Very unlikely. Since LS have been operated the LGW to NCL route, loads have gone way down. NCL is also an important feeder for LHR services.



Next flights: LGW-LBA-LGW, LHR-SIN-SYD, SYD-BKK-LHR, LGW-GRO, GRO-CIA, CIA-MAD, MAD-LGW
User currently offlineSandyb123 From UK - Scotland, joined Oct 2007, 1119 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6099 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

From EDI-LGW there has been under investment for years with BA flying shabby old 737. EDI-LHR is better on A320 / 757 as this carries a lot more of the business market along with EDI-LCY on Avro 100.

There has been increasing competition on EDI-LGW over the years from LCC but only Scotairways (now Cityjet) on the City route and Bmi on LHR. If BA pull out of LGW it will be a great victory for the LCCs. And how long until someone offers real competition on the City route?

Sandyb123



Member of the mile high club
User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2515 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6097 times:

Quoting Sketty222 (Reply 4):
Ive heard from BA crew that they intend to restart the LGW-NCL service and may stop the LHR-NCL service.

Well I would not be suprised if that happened. Does anyone remember LHR-BFS??!!
The situation is not sustainable anymore at LHR and it is frustrating BA has to drop some routes to start other routes at its main hub...



Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlineBCALBOY From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2007, 102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 5850 times:

Quoting BY738 (Reply 1):
BA will not give up their verry lucrative LHR routes from GLA , MAN etc. THe rumours re LGW have been denied. The service from LGW is atrocious with usual delays and cancellations

Don-t confuse heavy loads with profit. I certainly don-t think BA would describe their LHR domestic services as very lucrative! They are important as feeders and cover their costs but don-t make big profits in their own right.
LGW punctuality is generally better than LHR !

Quoting Sandyb123 (Reply 6):
There has been increasing competition on EDI-LGW over the years from LCC but only Scotairways (now Cityjet) on the City route and Bmi on LHR. If BA pull out of LGW it will be a great victory for the LCCs. And how long until someone offers real competition on the City route?

Cityjet fly 6 times per day on LCY marketed by AF . How wud you define 'real competition " ?

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 7):
Well I would not be suprised if that happened. Does anyone remember LHR-BFS??!!
The situation is not sustainable anymore at LHR and it is frustrating BA has to drop some routes to start other routes at its main hub...

BA was losing a lot of money on LHR/BFS...so it wasn-t just the slots ...it was stem the losses as well especially fter 09/11 when conserving cash was paramount. LHR/NCL does reasonably well Theres a lot of feed and a fair proportion of full fare traffic .I think there are a number of European routes that would go before NCL if slots were required.



At LGW BA have announced they will start services in their own right to AGP,FAO,IBZ,PMI.GIB,TUN.
They obviously need aircraft time and slots to introduce these flights.
The rumour here is that LGW/ABZ and LGW/NCE will fund part of this. Haven-t heard anything internally although I think it would take more than these two routes to resource the new services.

ABZ looks like an obvious candidate .
The arrival of BMI on LHR/ABZ has affected the fortunes on that route.
The load factor on LGW/ABZ is probably higher than LHR...BA/BMI operate 13 flights per day on a route that
carries not many more psgrs than BMI as sole operator carry on LHR/BHD with only 8 flights per day !
Note that BMI have switched > 50% of their flights to 50-seaters due feeling the pinch.

With IAH/DFW/ALG moving to LHR the need for a LGW link disappears and BA will hope to improve LHR
performance by moving LGW traffic to LHR.

Looks like it might be an opportunity for Easyjet or Flybe.

Lets hope for CO's sake they manage to get the slots to move their IAH services to LHR !


User currently offlineBY738 From Tonga, joined Sep 2000, 2364 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5771 times:

Quoting BCALBOY (Reply 8):
Don-t confuse heavy loads with profit

The GLA/EDI shuttle routes have been quoted as being some of the most profitable routes in the European network, and thats without Club Europe. For the tranfer passengers alone they remain extremely lucrative.


User currently offlineBCALBOY From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2007, 102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5742 times:

Quoting BY738 (Reply 9):
The GLA/EDI shuttle routes have been quoted as being some of the most profitable routes in the European network, and thats without Club Europe. For the tranfer passengers alone they remain extremely lucrative.

Quoted where and by whom ?

I said they were important for feed .

EDI is good the others are ok but def not top routes in European network.


User currently offlineSandyb123 From UK - Scotland, joined Oct 2007, 1119 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5699 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quote:
Cityjet fly 6 times per day on LCY marketed by AF . How wud you define 'real competition " ?

Well you quote load factor and seats available as an important factor in route sustainability, so look at the facts:

BA EDI-LCY
8 return flights daily
112 seats per RJ100 = 896 seats a day each way
By my own experience of flying this route regularly it is a very popular flight

Cityjet (Scot airways)
7 return flights daily
33 seats per Dornier 328 = 231 seats a day each way
Again, by my own experience this isn't a busy flight

Although Cityjet are putting more 146 / RJ100 aircraft into this route it's not a high profile brand in Scotland, Scot airways mostly got it's business from corporate contacts.

Now if I remember correctly the A318 is type rated for the STOL at LCY. So there is fleet compatibility with, for example Easyjets A319s which means that they could bring in a A318 and compete with BA. Their Avros are getting on a bit and are not comfortable jets in my experience . Also, Easyjet have been making serious inroads into the business market so it is not inconsevible for a major LCC or competitor to come into EDI-LCY.



Member of the mile high club
User currently offlineGlom From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2820 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5645 times:

Now how am I supposed to get to Trinidad? Trying to optimise their ABZ-IAH route by concentrating it on LHR is fiddling once the extended ABZ runway comes along and airlines start flying the route directly.

User currently offlineBY738 From Tonga, joined Sep 2000, 2364 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 5586 times:

Quoting BCALBOY (Reply 10):
EDI is good the others are ok but def not top routes in European network.

I apologise, I didnt realise you had access to presumably highly sensitive profit details regarding the BA network.

No 1 Quote "BA has 12 flights a day from Edinburgh to Heathrow and a further 6 to Gatwick, with the routes understood to be among the most profitable on the flag carrier’s global network"
http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=79892002

No.2 quote ( from a paper copy of Scotsman Newspaper Tue 10 Jul 2007),
Willie Walsh talking at the time of the FlyBE takeover of UK routes
"these routes are still BA mainline, to Gatwick Heathrow and London city and are still highly profitable"


User currently offlineA340600 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2003, 4105 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (6 years 11 months 4 weeks ago) and read 5496 times:

Quoting Sketty222 (Reply 4):
I hope this isnt the case, how am i meant to go on holiday



Quoting Glom (Reply 12):
Now how am I supposed to get to Trinidad?

It wouldn't be the end of the world, there are ways between the airport other than a day long horse back ride Wink

Quoting Sam1987 (Reply 5):
Surely EDI and GLA to LGW can be sustained though? Don't quite a few passengers feed into the long haul leisure flights?

I really don't see EDI or GLA going, ABZ yes but not the other two, EDI especially does well for BA.

Quoting Sandyb123 (Reply 6):
From EDI-LGW there has been under investment for years with BA flying shabby old 737.

BA's entire shorthaul network out of LGW currently is 737's bar very few A319 flights, it's not personal Wink I really don't know why people can complain about the 737 on the short domestic hops, the bulk of them are newer than the older A320's ex LHR which often fly domestic and it isn't as if they're exactly on their last legs! The -400's have also had new lighting fitted onboard. This disposable thought of aviation " if an aicraft is over ten years old it's worthless" is really saddening.



Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
User currently offlineSam1987 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 946 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 5254 times:

Quoting A340600 (Reply 14):
BA's entire shorthaul network out of LGW currently is 737's bar very few A319 flights

When will the Euro Gatwick fleet be fully Airbus?



Next flights: LGW-LBA-LGW, LHR-SIN-SYD, SYD-BKK-LHR, LGW-GRO, GRO-CIA, CIA-MAD, MAD-LGW
User currently offlineBFS From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 743 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5016 times:

Any hints where this rumour has come from?? I'm BA crew at LGW and the only rumour I've heard on Galley FM is that NCL may be coming back. Yes we have been told that some shorter routes may be dropped for the GT routes to be picked up, but nobody has suggested any of the domestic network.

Quoting Sam1987 (Reply 15):
When will the Euro Gatwick fleet be fully Airbus?

The A319s are due to arrive permanently next March, in drips and drabs, but the 737s are staying (-400s long term, -300s and -500s temporarily, until enough aircraft are delivered to replace them).


User currently offlineA340600 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2003, 4105 posts, RR: 51
Reply 17, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 4938 times:

When I was flying out of LGW on Thursday, at around 8.30am a BA A319 came in and parked on the domestic pier. It appears the base has a temporary A319 again, anyone know what routes it does etc?


Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24947 posts, RR: 56
Reply 18, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 4920 times:

Quoting A340600 (Reply 17):
When I was flying out of LGW on Thursday, at around 8.30am a BA A319 came in and parked on the domestic pier. It appears the base has a temporary A319 again, anyone know what routes it does etc?

Edinburgh is one.



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineA340600 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2003, 4105 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 4885 times:

Just checked ba.com. It appears to operate the BA2940/1 and BA2946/7 rotations to EDI, and the BA2958/9 rotation to GLA, no Manchesters whatsoever, don't know about anything else.


Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7626 posts, RR: 17
Reply 20, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4868 times:

Quoting A340600 (Reply 17):
When I was flying out of LGW on Thursday, at around 8.30am a BA A319 came in and parked on the domestic pier. It appears the base has a temporary A319 again, anyone know what routes it does etc?

The 319 currently operating in and out of LGW is G-EUPG. It is scheduled in the BA timetable to operate the following flights:

BA2931 EDI-LGW
BA2958 LGW-GLA
BA2959 GLA-LGW
BA2940 LGW-EDI
BA2941 EDI-LGW
BA2946 LGW-EDI

It overnights at EDI as does the aircraft operating BA1464 (LHR-EDI). So these two aircraft can be seamlessly interchanged. It is therefore likely that 'PG will soon be back in the BA Main Fleet at Heathrow.

The above flights appear in the BA timetable as 319 flights. This rather quashes the suggestion that on

Quoting Sandyb123 (Reply 6):
EDI-LGW there has been under investment for years with BA flying shabby old 737.

as two rotations a day are not 737 flights.

Quoting Gkirk (Thread starter):
How long until BA have no domestic routes?

Currently BA is the biggest domestic operator in the UK (closely followed by BD). According to the CAA in July 2007 - the last month for which statistics have been published - BA carried 423,136 domestic scheduled passengers or 21.3 per cent of the total of 1,986,957.

I suppose it is OK to ask how long it will be before BA has no domestic routes but with the feed into their international network they obtain from their current domestic services, their expansion earlier this year of stand alone services from LCY to both EDI and GLA and the size of their domestic operation in terms of passengers carried being around 10 per cent of their total operation the answer is clearly not "tomorrow".


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27126 posts, RR: 60
Reply 21, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4842 times:

A F/A told me that LGW-Newquay is also likely to go.

Quoting BCALBOY (Reply 8):
BA was losing a lot of money on LHR/BFS...so it wasn-t just the slots ...it was stem the losses as well especially fter 09/11 when conserving cash was paramount

BA wanted to axe BFS well before 9/11 but political pressure was put on them to keep the route. In the end BA got their way amid much lobbying by NI political leaders. From January Aer Lingus will be the main player on BFS-LHR !! How times have changed .


User currently offlineTristarSteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 4029 posts, RR: 33
Reply 22, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4793 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 21):
A F/A told me that LGW-Newquay is also likely to go.

Yes it is going to Daily operation next summer!!


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27126 posts, RR: 60
Reply 23, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4741 times:

Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 22):
Yes it is going to Daily operation next summer!!

Just because its loaded into the system doesnt mean it will go . There are a number of routes still on sale in the system that are going  Wink


User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2515 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (6 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4701 times:

What about LGW-AMS? How is this route performing? How come AMS survived when CDG, FRA, BRU or MUC didn't?


Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
25 Sam1987 : Ah that would be good. LS is a bit of a shabby airline - I'm surprised BA dropped it in the first place. Including the entire GT operation! Isn't LGW
26 Post contains images A340600 : Well when I flew out and back last week on seperate days the flights were packed to the brim with 5 rows of club out and 3 back, not bad at all for L
27 Gkirk : I'd be very surprised about that. easyJet at least should have overtaken them by a mile.
28 David_itl : Remember BA need the feed out of the regions to sustain their long-haul out of LHR.
29 VV701 : Thanks for saying that. It made me check my facts. If "a mile" is less than a fairly substantial 96,157 passengers you are correct. I was certainly w
30 Sam1987 : I expect U2 are in the lead because of their non London services, such as: BFS to BRS, EDI, GLA, LPL and NCL BRS to BFS, EDI, GLA, INV and NCL
31 BCALBOY : This quote is not from BA , its from a Scottish journalist writing in a Scottish newspaper. Don-t forget Ryanair , they carried around 85-90k psgrs s
32 Bennett123 : I think that they are talking UK, hence excluding FR.
33 Post contains images VV701 : Here the key word is "domestic". As FR are not a British airline they do not report to the CAA on a monthly basis and their data will be included und
34 BCALBOY : Wasn-t clear to me we were talking UK Carriers only , thought the proposition was who carries most Domestic psgrs in the UK. ,but not really that imp
35 VV701 : Yes. But no data in this section is given by airline and there is no breakdown by the nationality of the airline. The CAA only publishes data by airl
36 David_itl : But if there is only one carrier on the route, it does make it rather easy to work out, doesn't it.
37 AIR MALTA : So if this happens, there would be no need to cut some other routes to accomodate new servives. BA is the only airline in Europe that only adds route
38 APYu : In response to AirMalta above - The 319s arent arriving to increase the size of the base significantly, it will be to replace the 737's in an order wh
39 VV701 : Over to you then!
40 Egnm-LBA : Passengers on domestic flights by airline (aug2007) 580,152 EASYJET 447,027 BRITISH AIRWAYS 420,198 FLYBE LTD 278,336 BMI BRITISH MIDLAND 161,836 BMIB
41 Sam1987 : I can't think of many FR domestic flights in the UK: EMA-INV PIK-STN PIK-BOH PIK-BHD STN-NQY BHD-LPL BHD-STN BHD-EMA Any others?
42 BAxMAN : I was going to post earlier in this thread slagging off the OP for making groundless rumour appear as fact, but lost interest halfway through typing m
43 SKAirbus : Well there isn't really a market for British Airways from any other UK city..... That gap has been filled by LCC such as Easyjet, Ryanair, Jet2 to na
44 Edina : They're actually newer than the 737s, 757s and older Airbuses that also operate to EDI........ Been cabin crew myself for the last 22 years & there a
45 EGNM-LBA : Remember this is Aug-07 data, so BHD hadn't started. The breakdown of the 114,000 passengers is ABZ-LPL 4,237 BOH-PIK 9,829 Derry - LPL 8,316 Derry -
46 AIR MALTA : I tried to book a LGW-ABZ-LGW for Apr 2008 and the one way ticket cost 226 pounds while flights out of LHR cost 42 pounds. I think ABZ will get the c
47 Sam1987 : Interesting that INV to LPL got axed but INV to EMA didn't! Does this mean INV to EMA will get the chop too? Such a pity. Maybe U2 will start LGW to
48 Nighthawk : ABZ is an expensive airport to operate out of, INV maybe breaks even with those loads
49 BA787 : Not excactly what you'd call underinvestment. Yes, they are getting on a bit, but their 737s do the job as well as possible and some (only a few) are
50 AIR MALTA : This is a confirmation that Aberdeen is axed (unfortunately). FAO won't get any flight from LHR. No flights to Malta or Paphos are planned. Interestin
51 AIR MALTA : From ba.com British Airways is launching new shorthaul routes from Heathrow, Gatwick and London City airports from March 30, 2008. The airline will st
52 Florida2000 : Hi AIR MALTA Where on ba.com did you find this? I have been looking and cannot see it. I have been desperately waiting for any official BA announceme
53 Post contains links AIR MALTA : You can find it under this link. Open the "New summer 2008 shorthaul routes" link : http://www.britishairways.com/travel/bapress/public/en_gb
54 Florida2000 : Great. Thanks very much for that.
55 Sam1987 : That's a pretty substantial list of axed routes. I imagine U2 will pick up a lot of the traffic (or have already picked up the traffic) on LGW to NCE
56 AIR MALTA : I think Air One is having a double daily MIL-LCA which makes it better for the business traveller with morning and evening flights. I would not have
57 Sam1987 : Along with BCN, EDI, GLA and ZRH.
58 VV701 : Capacity? I am not sure how many aircraft CityFlyer will have next summer. They will be adding 2 RJ85s but I understood that they would dispose of th
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
BA To Drop 8 MAN Routes And 2 BHX Routes... posted Thu Aug 11 2005 13:31:51 by GVBIG
BA To Drop MAN-CPH posted Tue Dec 7 2004 22:27:33 by David_itl
BA To Drop LGA-USA Routes? posted Tue Jan 29 2002 14:57:01 by 747firstclass
BA To Restructure Gatwick Operations posted Tue Oct 10 2000 19:47:12 by ContinentalEWR
Is BA Looking To Drop Domestic Routes? posted Fri Aug 4 2006 10:14:28 by Drinkstrolley
BA CitiExpress To Drop LCY-CDG posted Sun Feb 1 2004 18:12:57 by Capital146
European To Fly Gatwick-sydney With Ex BA B744s?! posted Thu Jul 3 2003 00:18:15 by Englandair
BA To Poznan And Antalya Summer 2008 posted Wed Oct 17 2007 11:14:08 by AIR MALTA
UK Gov't Pressuring BA To Buy Airbus posted Tue Sep 11 2007 23:19:42 by N1786b
TPG / BA To Reduce Bid For IB? posted Sun Aug 26 2007 16:30:07 by VV701