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What's Up With Alaska Airlines?  
User currently offlineDouglas7Seas From United States of America, joined May 2004, 129 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 12367 times:

I started flying on a semi-regular basis in 2001. About every six weeks I travel from SEA to LGB, usually on Alaska Airlines. I take Alaska for several reasons: (1) I'm not rich, and their prices are usually lowest, (2) they fly into Long Beach which is infinitely preferable to the chaos of LAX, and (3) I can drive the 1.5 hours from work to SEA in time for the 6:50 PM flight.

Two or three years ago, something changed. The employees became noticeably surly. The frequency (and length) of flight delays increased radically. Lastly, the frequency of mechanical failures increased significantly, at least from the passengers standpoint. So my question is "what's up with Alaska"?

An example for your analysis. Last Thursday (11/01/07), I was scheduled on Alaska Flt. 342 from SEA to LGB, departing at 6:50 PM. At 6:45 PM, waiting passengers were advised that the rear lavatory on the aircraft was broken, and no further information on departure would be available until 7:15 PM. At 7:30 PM a gate change was made to a new aircraft, arriving at 8:00 PM. Soon after that aircraft's arrival, it was announced that it too was broken, and another aircraft at another gate would be used. After boarding that aircraft, a stewardess gruffly announced that everyone needed to be seated at once as an 11:00 PM curfew for arriving flights is in effect at Long Beach. Then the Capt. stood in the isle and asked "are we having fun yet"? He the stated 'well, I've never had to change airplanes three time either. But we do have to push back by 8:30, in two minutes or we won't make it into Long Beach. By the way, we don't have any gas on this plane, and I'm not flying without gas, and that takes 15 to 20 minutes to load. So if you don't want to go to Los Angeles, now is your chance to get off'.

So I ask again, what is up with Alaska Airlines?


Be different; Be nice.
153 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4464 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 12319 times:

Wow , that is unacceptable.
Especially coming from the pilot. I have flown with AS over 70 times in the past 20 years, and yes I have lowered my expectations over the years. Even the business class has taken a hit. Why? Please someone explain.


User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 12286 times:

Quoting Douglas7Seas (Thread starter):

Two or three years ago, something changed. The employees became noticeably surly. The frequency (and length) of flight delays increased radically. Lastly, the frequency of mechanical failures increased significantly, at least from the passengers standpoint. So my question is "what's up with Alaska"?

That would be about the time they they outsourced all their ground handling, I think. That immediately increased delays due to issues with loading/unloading baggage and servicing the airplane and I think it pissed the remaining Alaska employees off, which might explain the surliness.

I don't fly them as often as you do but my experiences to date have been quite positive.

Tom.


User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 12257 times:

When you outsource, you get what you pay for - or rather what you DON'T pay for. This is true for airlines or any other "service" (and I use that term lightly).

As you yourself stated, you travel with them because their prices are generally the lowest. May we ask how much you save? Is it really worth it in the long run to have to suffer through this?

I ask this because I seriously doubt anything is going to improve anytime soon.



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 12224 times:

Quoting Douglas7Seas (Thread starter):
Two or three years ago, something changed. The employees became noticeably surly. The frequency (and length) of flight delays increased radically. Lastly, the frequency of mechanical failures increased significantly, at least from the passengers standpoint. So my question is "what's up with Alaska"?

This has been going on with the morale for the last several plus years or so. I started to notice this in 2003-2004. My expectations are getting lower and lower each time I fly on them. I don't know as to WHY the employees are being this way. This is not the Alaska Spirit that AS preaches about anymore. The FA's are really disrespectful and rude towards the pax, expecially on my last second to last flight (DEN-SEA) last May. The gate agents are okay, but still, ya know. I used to work for AS and this is definately not my former airline for sure. It has really changed and it is sad. I am considering switching my business over to F9 exclusively (west coast flying) and I don't mind a plane change in DEN. Again, Alaska Airlines isn't the same Alaska Airlines that I once knew....

As for your question "what's up with Alaska?" I dont know the anwser. Ask Ayer. Only he can anwser that for you, but he probably won't be very truthful.

Quoting TK787 (Reply 1):
Even the business class has taken a hit.

AS doesn't have a business class. Just F & Y class only.

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 2):
That would be about the time they they outsourced all their ground handling, I think.

 checkmark  I agree with that. I would also add about the mx being outsourced too, that p'eed off alot of the folks at the SEA base and the folks at OAK too. I am saddened that the SEA C/D-check base is gone.

AS needs to get their ducks in a row, and the only way that will ever happen is starting with Ayer, who needs to resign.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5116 posts, RR: 28
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 11979 times:

Quoting TK787 (Reply 1):
Wow , that is unacceptable.
Especially coming from the pilot. I have flown with AS over 70 times in the past 20 years, and yes I have lowered my expectations over the years. Even the business class has taken a hit. Why? Please someone explain.



Quoting Douglas7Seas (Thread starter):
So I ask again, what is up with Alaska Airlines?

I had to really think about how to approach this question, because EVERYONE knows my theory. The CEO of Alaska needs to go, and so does about 90% of the corporate office. And 90% of the management needs to take the walk along with him. Ayer has done a royal job of changing Alaska from a jewel, to just another airline.

Ayer (CEO) and his team fired and outsourced the dedicated ramp workers in SEA, and replaced them with a contract that has really made them the spotlight of the Seattle media. Planes whacked, bags stolen, guns stolen and used in driveby shootings, and the list goes on. Ayer and his team will use the outsourcing of the ramp workers as a tool to use against the front line workers that remain. The poor employees have to be hand shy. Do you really feel protected job wise, when your fellow coworkers got kicked to the curb? Oh yes, and where is the big savings from outsourcing the ramp? If anything, it has cost them alot more than just money lost.

I see a need for change, and it needs to start at the top. The front line employees deserve a better leader. Alaska has so much potential, but I just don't see it happening under the current leadership. Ayer and his team are so concerned about cutting costs, and making money. Sadly, they have no vision of what Alaska Airlines stands for, and what it is about. They have done a fine job of making Alaska just another airline, and I would give anything to have some of the old Alaska Airlines back.

Don't get me wrong, I understand the need to change. But change should not affect your customers. Change should not inconvenience your customers. Change should not hurt your customers. Most importantly, change should not damage your workforce. The 2010 plan is a complete failure.

Clean house at the top. Bring back your own ramp workers. Raise the employee morale, and the employees will bring back the special Jewel that Alaska really is. I want Alaska back!

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 4):
Again, Alaska Airlines isn't the same Alaska Airlines that I once knew....

As for your question "what's up with Alaska?" I dont know the anwser. Ask Ayer. Only he can anwser that for you, but he probably won't be very truthful.

I should have read your post before I wrote a book! DARN!!! You said everything I just said, except that your 2 sentences could have saved me from carpal tunnel! LOL!

Quoting TK787 (Reply 1):
Wow , that is unacceptable.
Especially coming from the pilot.

Yes, the pilot was somewhat wrong, but straight to the point. The pilots and flight attendants also have no easy task.

Anyone want to guess how long it takes until this one gets deleted?  Wink



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5116 posts, RR: 28
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 11973 times:

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 3):
When you outsource, you get what you pay for - or rather what you DON'T pay for. This is true for airlines or any other "service" (and I use that term lightly).

As you yourself stated, you travel with them because their prices are generally the lowest. May we ask how much you save? Is it really worth it in the long run to have to suffer through this?

I ask this because I seriously doubt anything is going to improve anytime soon.

100% agree with you on this. My wrists hurt, so I better call it a night!  Smile



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineDouglas7Seas From United States of America, joined May 2004, 129 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 11874 times:

Hey PanAm,

I usually save around one hundred dollars, more or less. Last Thursday's flight cost $298.30 with a return scheduled for Monday evening. The reservation was made on Oct 14, so Alaska has had my little pittance to play with for about 2 weeks. To answer the question, is it worth it, trading the hassle and nasty attitudes for a hundred dollar savings? Right now, seeing as I'm pissed off, no it's not. But as I said, I don't count myself among the affluent, so a hundred dollars is better in my pocket than theirs.
What really irritates me is that I got a mom in her 80's who isn't going to be around that long (poor, poor me), so I enjoy the time with her. To have it F'ed up because... oh well, I've said too much anyway.

See ya,

John



Be different; Be nice.
User currently offlineMcMax From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 11785 times:

I fly AS a bit up and the down West Coast (Aadvantage elite miles available). I have to disagree on the comments on Alaska's FAs. The ones I've encountered are always quite chatty and nice, and tend to thank me flying Alaska. The SNA-SEA route has pretty friendy FAs, even in coach. All the attendants in the Board Room in SEA are extra-friendly as well, too.

Now, what takes the cake are the QX flights from SEA-YVR. For such a short hop, they serve complimentary beer and wine, pop and other drinks. For free. Service is great, and with it being such a small place (DH-200), the FA is always telling jokes or taking to the passengers.

As much as I hate to dis my own airline, the vast majority AS FAs put the a good deal of the AA FAs to shame.



De minimis non curat lex tamen ego curao
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 11694 times:

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 5):
I should have read your post before I wrote a book! DARN!!! You said everything I just said, except that your 2 sentences could have saved me from carpal tunnel! LOL!

Sorry bro! LOL! I knew you would be pitching into this thread sooner or later. I remember you and I having personal discussions about this very issue in private so I know how you feel.

I wished (previous CEO) John F. Kelly never left. But then again, who knows what Kelly would have done today if he was still around. When I heard that Ayer was picked to succeed Kelly, I was disgusted and knew that something like laying off the ramp and mx folks was going to happen. I never saw the mx thing coming, thas for sure!



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineGreg3322 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 11551 times:

It has been my experience that about all airlines customer service and employee moral has gone way down in the last several years. I think 9-11 was a big part of it and of course the bankruptcys. It is not just an AS problem.

Greg


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 11477 times:

Quoting Greg3322 (Reply 11):
I think 9-11 was a big part of it...

I disagree with that. The 9/11 excuse has been badly so worn out effective like a few years ago. No one is buying that anymore.

Quoting Greg3322 (Reply 11):
of course the bankruptcys.

This, I agree to. But AS was one of the few U.S. airlines that didn't go through bankruptcy after 9/11.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offline717-200 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 601 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 11404 times:

Quoting Greg3322 (Reply 10):
I think 9-11 was a big part of it and of course the bankruptcys.

That statement has become such a cop-out and excuse for the slipshod service of many of the leagcies these days. It is a shame that an airline like AS which had a good reputation for its service has gone down hill so much. It just shows how one person or group of persons like F9 Animal stated can make a difference.



72S 733 734 735 73G 738 742 752 763 E190 M82 M83
User currently offlineAlaska737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1063 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 11297 times:

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 2):
That would be about the time they they outsourced all their ground handling,



Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 3):
When you outsource, you get what you pay for - or rather what you DON'T pay for.

ok i highly doubt you can contribute your delay to the outsourcing of ramp personal....not even F9Animal could find a way to make that connection...more than likely this is another issue with the Mad Dogs which is why they are being retired.
Alaska isnt the only airline to cancel a flight.

Quoting McMax (Reply 8):
I fly AS a bit up and the down West Coast (Aadvantage elite miles available). I have to disagree on the comments on Alaska's FAs. The ones I've encountered are always quite chatty and nice, and tend to thank me flying Alaska

I would agree with this entirely. even if one FA was a little grouchy with you it still doesnt justify you saying that all of AS's FA's are poor,


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 11241 times:

Quoting Alaska737 (Reply 13):
...if one FA was a little grouchy with you it still doesnt justify you saying that all of AS's FA's are poor,

We are not even saying that, thats pretty far fetched. I have encountered some really good AS FA's, but lately most of my FA's I have had are less than subpar. Their attitudes certainly did reek...



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineStuckInCA From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1991 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 11226 times:

I've had nothing but bad experiences lately on AS. Here's a summary of my last 4 flights:

SEA-SMF: 2x Mechanical. 3rd plane's a charm ~4 hour delay. Very little information during the entire delay.
Return ~ 2 hour delay

SEA-SMF: On time
Return: "Rolling" delay (20 - 30 minute delays over and over). We left the airport when they said 11:18 PM. Original departure was scheduled for 5 or 5:10. The flight left at 11:59 PM. Our new flight (the next morning) was ~ 3 hours delayed. They said the reason for the original delay (the 5 PM) was fog in Seattle that morning. I don't buy it. If that's the case they need to be able to know how delayed they are.... not go from on time to 7 hour delay with no increment larger than 30 minutes along the way.

SEA-SJC: On time
Return: Mechanical. Instead of waiting until after 11 PM (original flight scheduled for around 5:30) we shuttled to SFO and got out around 9:30. Net delay for us ~ 4 hours. Not a SINGLE apology from any crew for the inconvenience. On approach to SEA we had to do an extra tour of the Puget Sound region due to a problem with a landing gear light not illuminating (737-400).

On top of that they canceled the flight I had booked for thanksgiving.

It's been a very bad few months for AS in my world. Not coincidentally all of the Mechanical problems were MD-80's.


User currently offlineGunsontheroof From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3509 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 11218 times:

Quoting Douglas7Seas (Thread starter):
I can drive the 1.5 hours from work to SEA in time for the 6:50 PM flight.

If you're working anywhere near the location stated in your profile, I'd love to know how you're pulling that off.  Wink

Quoting Douglas7Seas (Thread starter):
Then the Capt. stood in the isle and asked "are we having fun yet"?

Bad call. I can't imagine that went over well with the pax.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 4):
I agree with that. I would also add about the mx being outsourced too, that p'eed off alot of the folks at the SEA base and the folks at OAK too. I am saddened that the SEA C/D-check base is gone.

What's AS using their hangars at SEA for then? Seems like an awful lot of workspace for a company that's outsourced its MX (is it still happening at PAE and YXX?)



Next Flight: 9/17 BFI-BFI
User currently offlineDouglas7Seas From United States of America, joined May 2004, 129 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 11072 times:

Guns !!

Hey, I'm a government employee... so while I work very slowly, I do put extra speed into starting my vacations ~ just kidding. I actually moved to the general area of Seattle about a year ago, so what with rush hour traffic, I usually make the drive in 1.5 hours.

All three aircraft involved in my attempted trip were MD80's... which I kinda like cuz I know they're in their last days. In regard to canceled Thanksgiving flights, I tried to book one on Alaska last night and there are none listed in the usual time-frame that I fly... I mean NONE. I wonder what's up with that.

See ya,

John



Be different; Be nice.
User currently offlineSeabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5768 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 11024 times:

Have to say this has not been my experience recently. I fly Alaska frequently BOS-SEA, DCA-SEA, and now BOS-PDX. I've also taken the occasional AS or QX west coast flight in the last few years. I'm very happy with the service.

It does seem that their on time performance out of SEA has slipped (many late-arriving aircraft in BOS and DCA) but the F/As are almost always friendly and polite, and much more willing to give extra drinks, peanuts, etc. if asked. For whatever reason, I've also found the US ground staff in BOS to be much more cheerful when they're working Alaska flights. I have no idea why -- I'm used to "Get your @#&^ on the 6:30 to LaGuardia NOW!" kind of attitude from them, and given the whiny and spoiled nature of many East Coast pax it seems appropriate.

Since I'm usually flying on 737NG aircraft, I haven't had many mx issues. I expect if you regularly flew on M80 or 734 equipment it might be different. The one time I recently flew on a M80 (SAN-SEA, no mx issues) I was in row 32, and the Alaska cabin crew gave a free drink and earplugs to everyone back of row 29! It was much appreciated and the sort of gesture that separates Alaska from the rest.

Have I just been lucky, or is Alaska focusing on the transcons at the expense of their west coast bread and butter?


User currently offlineGunsontheroof From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3509 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 10979 times:

Quoting Douglas7Seas (Reply 17):

Hey, I'm a government employee... so while I work very slowly, I do put extra speed into starting my vacations ~ just kidding. I actually moved to the general area of Seattle about a year ago, so what with rush hour traffic, I usually make the drive in 1.5 hours.

Gotcha. For a second there, I was wondering just how fast you were driving!

Quoting Seabosdca (Reply 18):

Since I'm usually flying on 737NG aircraft, I haven't had many mx issues. I expect if you regularly flew on M80 or 734 equipment it might be different. The one time I recently flew on a M80 (SAN-SEA, no mx issues) I was in row 32, and the Alaska cabin crew gave a free drink and earplugs to everyone back of row 29! It was much appreciated and the sort of gesture that separates Alaska from the rest.

I recently took my first (and probably last) trip on an AS MD-80. I was glad to catch one before they leave the fleet. My return trip (OAK-SEA) was on a 734 and was delayed by about an hour (arriving late from SNA). Wonder if it was mx related.



Next Flight: 9/17 BFI-BFI
User currently offlineSpirtofalaska From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 192 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10213 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 4):
The FA's are really disrespectful and rude towards the pax, expecially on my last second to last flight (AND CURRENT: Denver - International (DEN / KDEN), USA - Colorado">DEN-SEA) last May.

Yeah, I have to say I am appuled at that comment. AND..Flat out, you are wrong. We are all on a higher level Of nice-ness than most other airlines. Your crew could have been not the most pleasant, but for you to state that all of us are nasty, is rude and not accaptable. Out of the 3000 or so inflight crew members we might have 500 or so that do not want to be here, The other 2500 of us love what we do, and do it for a reason. We realize we get paid better than most, We get treated better than most, And therefore, we treat you the passenger better than most.

On a side note....On my last 3 weeks of flying ( i've flown non-stop the last 3 weeks, minus my 24hr layovers to remain legal ) We have only arrived late one or two flights, And those were only by a few minutes. that has been up and down the west coast, to alaska, and east coast.

I really am sorry you had a bad expereince on our airline, and like someone else graciously pointed out, Those flights that you are on, are usually opporated by the MD80, and once the end of 08 rolls around and we get the last one out of here. Our ontime reliability and MX issue's will improve dramatically.



you fo'Coffee?
User currently offlineCa2ohHP From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 955 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 9967 times:

I honestly have always been surprised at how well Alaska seems to do in DOT complaint rankings, and that's from working their flights first hand. Between AS and QX it seems like there is always some issue - and it's almost always maintenance. And it is not just the Mad Dogs either...the 73NG's seem almost as bad.

Part of the problem is AS/QX schedule their aircraft with a very very short ground time. In the line stations it is sometimes 35 minutes to turn an MD80 (and this is scheduled, so very little give in terms of irregularities) - which can be difficult if the rear stairs are not available. US, for instance, has a minimum ground time on an A319 of 35 minutes, but it seats 20 fewer customers..and the flights are usually scheduled with 45 minutes ground time. JetBlue has 60 minutes ground time, and I've seen how trashed the AS cabins are after a 3 hour flight. If anyone has aircraft utilization info (I'm too lazy to look at the moment) it would be interesting as I feel that plays a significant role in on-time performance and not necessarily the aircraft age.

Edited to add: The above is strictly my opinion based off what I see operationally. I will say that almost everyone I have known or worked with at Alaska Airlines is top notch in professionalism.

[Edited 2007-11-05 15:05:11]

User currently offlineHikesWithEyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 816 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 9843 times:

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 16):
What's AS using their hangars at SEA for then? Seems like an awful lot of workspace for a company that's outsourced its MX (is it still happening at PAE and YXX?)

AS outsourced heavy check maintenance, not Line MX.
The hangars are used for engine borescopes, lubes, A-cks, etc.



First, benzene in my Perrier, and now this!
User currently offlineGunsontheroof From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3509 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 9687 times:

Quoting HikesWithEyes (Reply 22):
AS outsourced heavy check maintenance, not Line MX.
The hangars are used for engine borescopes, lubes, A-cks, etc.

Should have thought of that myself. Got it.



Next Flight: 9/17 BFI-BFI
User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9429 times:

Quoting Alaska737 (Reply 13):
ok i highly doubt you can contribute your delay to the outsourcing of ramp personal...

How do you figure? If ramp operations don't get the plane ready to go, you're delayed.

Tom.


25 Post contains images AirframeAS : AS has stopped the c-checks on SEA (The tail stand is gone.) And OAK is no longer doing c-checks either, they are all outsourced. Now its only line w
26 Spirtofalaska : AIRFRAME AS not sure if you wern't aware, but i wasn't talking to you... or refering to anything you had posted
27 Alaska737 : I was refering to Douglas7Seas first post about his delays and plane switches, I dont think Menzies could break a lav. yes i know that the ground cre
28 Post contains links Douglas7Seas : Just as a parting shot, cuz I am a bit put out over this situation, here is a link to me griping and complaining about the same thing on YouTube: http
29 Post contains images AirframeAS : I apologize. I thought you were. I hope I had not offended you, sir.
30 717-200 : Have you ever tried flying WN instead despite the connections at OAK, SJC, or SMF? Seems they would be quicker than AS with their a/c mx delays and t
31 RwSEA : If you're flying AS, avoid the M80s at all costs. In the past couple of years, all of my extreme delays (2 hours+) have been on M80s going mechanical.
32 AirframeAS : They are always hiring for people at the CSA position. They just can't seem to keep people because they keep firing them (not passing probation is a
33 SkyguyB727 : F9Animal, you said it exactly. AS used to be a great airline. I'll never forget my first experience flying with them when I was new in the travel indu
34 Avion346 : In summation, a lot of issues need to be addressed and fixed. Everyone is aware there are serious problems, and work is being made to begin the long r
35 HikesWithEyes : Well, maybe the fact that you vote with your pocketbook has something to do with the quality of service in the airline industry. If someone else offe
36 Douglas7Seas : Well, I suppose that if Safeway took $300.00 from me and provided nothing, I might do a video on them. Are you interested in co-staring? And if that s
37 HikesWithEyes : Provided nothing? Your post doesn't say that you weren't able to get to Long Beach. If I had realized that was the case, then I wouldn't have replied
38 SeaBosDca : Offtopic, I know, but this is so true... baggage service at SEA is slower than at any other airport I regularly fly into, including some much bigger
39 Douglas7Seas : I didn't get to Long Beach. Total "loses": 1.5 days of vacation time, 1 tank of gas, $300.00 (298.30 actually) plane fare, and accommodations in the S
40 SpencerII : After such a RANT, I would take it you're a glutton for punishment. Why would ever even try to book a flight on Alaska.? after your video rendition o
41 Douglas7Seas : Sorry Spencer, I should have been clearer. When I book travel I just go through the routine of looking at Alaska, UAL and SW schedules. It' s just a h
42 HikesWithEyes : Well your original post doesn't say anything about not getting to Long Beach on Alaska. I couldn't bear to watch the whole boobtube.com video, so I d
43 Douglas7Seas : Well, I thought that it kind of went without saying... you know, if I want to go to Long Beach, and I buy a ticket to go to Long Beach and then the ai
44 F9Animal : Oh come on Hikes. I would expect a better response from an AS employee, especially regarding this topic. Boobtube.com? If he made it to Socal, he was
45 AirframeAS : The only way that can be accomplished is the removal of the CEO. Ayer has clearly destroyed what Alaska once was. And 9/11 has absolutely nothing to
46 SkyyMaster : I've flown AS maybe 10 times since '04. Prior to that it was a couple times a year in the 90's, then none from about 97 to 04. I'm not sure what ever
47 717-200 : Interesting that bag waits are now 30-40 min at SEA. When I had the misfortune to work for Menzies back in the summer of '05 here at SEA as a ramp le
48 HikesWithEyes : Go to one of the flight tracking websites, and you will see that your flight did go to Long Beach. Even if the flight hadn't made it before curfew, t
49 717-200 : What are these trainers being picky on? Attendance, punctuality, demeanor towards customers during IROP situations, giving away too many upgrades?
50 Douglas7Seas : So Hikes is an Alaska employee... surprise, surprise. In any event Hikes, to be plain: I entered into a contract with Alaska Airlines to fly from SEA
51 RwSEA : Like I said in all fairness it's not just AS. Particularly infuriating was arriving on NW008 from NRT and making it through immigration in 30 seconds
52 AirframeAS : Neatness, appearance and POPULARITY (Its a stupid popularity contest and its a mandatory 'participation', which is stupid and biased....) as well. If
53 717-200 : That is just outrageous, to base an agent's suitablility on the extremely shallow standard of POPULARITY is quite unprofessional. Where do these trai
54 HikesWithEyes : You are taking as gospel someone's word who is an ex-Alaska employee making a statement on a message board? I am not saying that Airframe is a disgru
55 HikesWithEyes : Have you read the contract of carriage provided on the Alaskaair.com website? Yes, passengers were inconvenienced, but the flight did operate SEA-LGB
56 AS737900 : Though I haven't read through all of the posts on here I have to agree. Alaska has gone downhill fast. They were at one time my favorite airline now I
57 Post contains links F9Animal : Perhaps we can remember what started the whole snowball effect. http://www.kirotv.com/investigations/14295025/detail.html http://www.king5.com/localne
58 IFEMaster : Well, for what it's worth, I've flown 27 roundtrips with AS in the last 18 months, SNA-SEA-SNA, SNA-PDX-SNA, LAX-SEA-LAX and LGB-SEA-LGB. In those 27
59 Dragonflyer : Alaska used to be a top-notch carrier out here on the West Coast, always serving hot meals in coach and really going out of their way to be different
60 AirframeAS : Actually, their troubles started the moment Ayer took office and rolled out that lame Alaska 2010 plan.
61 Chugach : On 11/6 and 11/7, AS managed to DOWNgrade me from First Class on my ANC-FAI and FAI-ANC segments, and lose my luggage. And, a gate agent at FAI flat-o
62 717-200 : What Airframe has said whether it is true or not just give me another reason why I do not like Alaska Airlines. It seems they have gone from being a
63 HikesWithEyes : That statement just floors me.
64 717-200 : Seems we are turning this forum into a pissing match. Since I have gotten Airframe's perspecitve on things maybe I should get your opinion on things
65 F9Animal : 717, Hikes is trying to derail the thread so it will get locked or removed. I am astonished that an AS employee like Hikes would post such insults to
66 Douglas7Seas : Flying, airlines and airliners are fun, exciting, and sometimes mysterious things. I suppose that's why people hangout on Airliners.net. Back when I w
67 Post contains images AirframeAS : I agree with you. I never understood this and I still don't to this day. Now, remember...I'm only speaking in terms of the CSA workgroup in SEA. I do
68 HikesWithEyes : No, it floors me because he said something totally illogical. He said that even if what you said was not true, it still was a reason for him to hate
69 AirframeAS : I dont know what to tell you, bro. Until your company starts changing itself back to the AS we all once have known and love, that may then change oth
70 SkyguyB727 : Bear in mind that first class might be checked in full for a flight but then passengers no show at departure time. That happens frequently with peopl
71 Chugach : This was after the seats had been released.
72 EIPremier : For what it's worth, I have flown 24 segments on mainline AS in the past 12 months, almost entirely on 737s. Out of those 24, exactly 2 were late at a
73 Roadrunner165 : Wow! I see very little constructive criticism in this thread and mostly complaining. Geesh... Some people need to learn how to discuss issues like adu
74 Post contains images 7E72004 : Wow..i have never flown Alaska and really don't have any opportunity to as the closest city is ORD (if they still serve them). Other than the original
75 Post contains images Roadrunner165 : Hey 7E72004, To be honest, Alaska Airlines is somewhat hit and miss. Hopefully in the near future we will see Alaska begin to standardize training so
76 Ram025 : I would have to agree that AS has some of the best pilots and F/As. However they did not do a good job by choosing mensies. Its cost them more in the
77 7E72004 : What is the second busiest carrier out of SEA? It has been a while since i was last there.
78 Ram025 : In 2006 after Horizon (apart of Alaska Air Group) United carried the 3rd most amount of passengers at Sea-Tac
79 Post contains images AirframeAS : Some people don't know exactly how to do that. I have provided a suggestion on how to attack the problem: getting rid of Ayer is a big, BIG start and
80 7E72004 : How many more of the MD-80s remain in Alaska's fleet?
81 Ram025 : I think around 13 or 14 are left, its to bad.
82 Post contains images 7E72004 : How old is the oldest MD-80? THey cannot be that old...at least not as old as NW's DC-9s
83 Post contains links Tdscanuck : They should be all gone by the end of the year. First delivery was to Swissair on 13-Sep-80: http://active.boeing.com/commercial/...pageid=m25062&Req
84 DBCooper : I flew AS a couple of weeks ago DFW-SEA-DFW and thought they were great. On-time (actually early) both ways. Relatively new aircraft (738 and 73G). An
85 BAW716 : Don't worry about being long winded...you are totally on the mark. I have several examples from flight operations to ramp of the decline in quality o
86 Ctbarnes : Curious thing about SEA as an aside. It always seems to take 45-60 minutes for bags to start coming down the chute, regardless of the airline. I'm not
87 AirframeAS : They have a bit more than that...around 20-25 or so. End of 2008. It shouldn't be a mystery. After all, its Menzies. Remember, they still have some p
88 B752OS : Does anyone know how the BOS-PDX and MCO-PDX flights are doing?
89 PacificWest : It's funny that people find Alaska so awful, because I love Horizon!
90 Ctbarnes : It's not just Alaska. Every airline I've flown on into SEA seems to take forever to get the bags off the plane. Charles, SJ
91 KAUSpilot : Two Words: PAY CUTS There you will find the reason for your low morale.
92 F9Animal : Menzies is infamous for not having enough employees on the ramp to even get the job done. Next time you fly to SEA on AS, watch the bags coming down
93 AirframeAS : On the last 5 trips I have flown into SEA: WN, US and UA & AS. I got my bags on all three airlines in SEA within 15-20 mins on WN, US and UA. With AS
94 HikesWithEyes : I can't give you a load factor, both both flights are doing quite well.
95 Socalatc : Only 16.. Check your facts. 943 944 947 948 958 960 961 962 968 969 972 977 979 981 982 975
96 Tango-Bravo : In the big picture, Alaska Airlines (AS), like other U.S. legacies, tends to be hit and miss. What is most troubling about AS is that Ayer and accompl
97 Sxf24 : What does this have to do with the original childish rant about Menzies?
98 HikesWithEyes : Yup, Airframe tends to have out of date info.
99 Socalatc : He also seems to be extremely bitter about Alaska. Maybe he should have been a better performer at work and he would not have gotten let go.
100 AirframeAS : I stand corrected. Not bitter, just speaking from experience. I was never let go from AS. I never worked the ramp. I worked the hangar on C's and D's
101 Socalatc : You worked in OAK or SEA? How do you know about probation agents being let go unfairly if you didn't work as a CSA?
102 HikesWithEyes : So what year did you leave ?
103 Post contains images F9Animal : Childish? That is exactly where 50% of this problem is! Ayers and his team have done nothing but pawn the problems of their ramp operation on Menzies
104 F9Animal : One other thing. Alaska will not and can not survive 10 years from now without a change. There are plenty of airlines that are coming out that offer b
105 EA CO AS : I'd have to imagine that FORMER probationary employees might not be entirely impartial in their assessment of the probationary process...
106 Socalatc : I dont work for AS. Check my profile. So, check your facts also.
107 Socalatc : What do you think a probationary employee who has been let go is going to tell you ? " Oh, Alaska was totally fair and I agree with their decision to
108 Post contains images F9Animal : Stupid? Is that what you hear them say? That is discriminating. There are people that get computer systems, and there are some that are challenged by
109 AirframeAS : SEA I worked as a CSA and as a Technician Helper, both at SEA. (Too complicated to explain..) Actually, thats not true. Its a beauty contest and a po
110 Sxf24 : Ramp operations have improved and are now in line (or better) with prior performance. The vast majority of airline responsible delays are related to
111 Socalatc : Yeah, And which company wants to keep employees that can not grasp the concept of their computer system? If you can understand, get out! If I have so
112 AgnusBymaster : OK, here's my two cents. People are saying the morale problems are due to pay cuts, layoffs etc. Let's face it, anyway you slice it, Alaska employees
113 Socalatc : Great point, No CSA lay off's , no FA or Pilot lay off's, all employee groups still have full pensions. If I were to fly again, Alaska would be the o
114 F9Animal : First off, the agents go through training. During that time, the trainer evaluates each students progress. This is the time to see if one is able to
115 Post contains images AirframeAS : CSA training at AS is 8 weeks long, believe it or not. That's more than enough time to learn Image.
116 Post contains images 717-200 : After that proposal by WN to move to BFI got shot down in part due to AS wanting to start competing service, therfore making BFI way too crowded and
117 Socalatc : CSA training is 3 weeks in Seattle and 2 on the job at the airport. Training in Seattle does not allow the new hires to get the full experience of th
118 Sxf24 : AS is still operating independently. It has never filed bankruptcy and shed its pensions, has laid off very few employees, is buying new planes and e
119 HikesWithEyes : Thanks for the great post. As far as F9 growing up and moving on, it's just not going to happen.
120 Vorticity : I've also have noticed a decrease in my satisfaction with Alaska. I've made numerous LAX-SEA or SEA-LAX trips of late, and it seems something always g
121 HikesWithEyes : [quote=Vorticity,reply=120]Having said all that, I'll still fly Alaska if they have the right price at the right time, so what does that tell you? It
122 AirframeAS : Not when I was there..... I went through 8 weeks with my class, ICSA to Advanced CSA (4 weeks) and then OJT for another 4 weeks WITH a trainer at my
123 Sxf24 : Prove it with facts.
124 Socalatc : Why is that a non-issue? It is very amazing in this day and age.
125 EA CO AS : Despite the best efforts to hire the best and the brightest, some people are quite adept at faking their way through an interview and even a few week
126 ASFlyer : If this is the case then someone forgot to tell me (and the CSA's at my airline) that we have a pension... of any kind.
127 Post contains images AirframeAS : Have you seen Menzies in the news December of 2005 and beyond?! Or did you miss that?    That's true. They try to train you to death within 8 weeks
128 Sxf24 : I never said the transition went smoothly. Obviously replacing your entire ground handling staff will cause problems - look at ASA in ATL. However, M
129 AirframeAS : Lets agree to disagree and leave it at that.
130 Post contains links and images F9Animal : Prove it. Show me some numbers. Show me some cost savings. I want to see the baggage numbers!!! No need to rush, I can wait for you to screw with the
131 Socalatc : You act like Alaska is the only airline that has aircraft damage or emergency landings. It happens almost daily at my airport with every airline. Jus
132 Ram025 : The only main issues AS has any more is with Mensies and the crap of a job they do.
133 Post contains images F9Animal : Check you facts. There is a crime ring at Menzies in Seattle. Guns being stolen from passengers checked luggage, and being used in shootings. Come on
134 Post contains images Tango-Bravo : In a word, thankyouverymuch! In spite of a careful new-hire selection process, a very few who are not "cut out" for the job slip through. In which ca
135 EA CO AS : Image updates take place every so often, but usually those are to add a minor feature or two that AGENTS themselves have asked to be implemented. Sou
136 Socalatc : Things are stolen every day from every airline, its TSA, Its ramp and its Airline personal. You can not single out Menzies on this issue. You are not
137 Post contains images AirframeAS : Tango, the new-hire selection is completely BIASED! There is no level playing field at all. Like I said earlier before, its a total beauty contest re
138 Post contains images EA CO AS : Thank you sir!
139 Socalatc : I was not talking about Menzies at all, I was talking about TSA and the contractor that the airport hires to move bags from the CTX to the bag belt.
140 Socalatc : How was lunch? I bet it was interesting. I've talking to Mr Ayre before, very nice man. We are both part of the Angel Flight network. I personally th
141 Post contains links Sxf24 : Financial numbers: http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-ed...count=40&action=getcompany&CIK=alk Baggage numbers: There is improvement: 6.85 per 1,000 in
142 Post contains images F9Animal : " target=_blank>http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/repor...7.htm Funny how they do not show the cost savings that Menzies was supposed to bring. Also kin
143 EA CO AS : Since you claim to "know" so much, I'll assume you also know that Menzies not only pays for aircraft damage but also the lost revenue resulting from
144 F9Animal : Oh yes, I know that. Does Menzies also pay for the lost passengers that will NEVER fly on them again? Can you count the amount of terrified faces tha
145 Post contains images AirframeAS : You, sir, are kindly welcome! You failed to mention that specifically. Oh, by the way...Who is this 'contractor' you speak about that the airport hir
146 Sxf24 : The load factors show that this is not an issue.
147 AeroWeanie : I flew SEA-OAK last Thursday and the flight departed on time. However, one of my wife's colleagues flew SEA-OAK the day before and her flight was held
148 Post contains images Alaska737 : Right I'm sure your that stuck up and proud that if they offerd you a free trip somewhere you would tell them no,. your right its not an improvements
149 AgnusBymaster : AeroWeanie...I have been highly suspicious for some time that some pilots are deliberately trying to disrupt the schedule, and I have also noticed a
150 Post contains images AirframeAS : Wow, me thinks your math is at below college level. .87 is nothing to me. It's like spare change to me...in pennies. And as for being a CEO of a comp
151 Post contains images Socalatc : I should check my grammar/punctintion/Spelling? Aviation Safeguards. And you obviously did not get mine. P.S. " sarcasim" Is actually spelt. Sarcasm.
152 Alaska737 : well that .87 is dealing with bags not profit.....this means they are losing about 1 bag less per 1000 customers...how many people fly on them each d
153 AirframeAS : AS moves 14,000-17,000 folks a day out of SEA alone. Lets just agree to disagree. Says you, and thats YOUR opinion. I was not 100% negative towards A
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