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VX First - Too Small?  
User currently offlineBoac747 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 71 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1982 times:

As a frequent transcon flyer, I have really taken to the VX product and experience. Beats the legacy carriers hans down. On every level.

But I've also noticed that too often, the F cabin is sold out. Good for VX, not for me.

At 8 seats, did they underestimate the demand?

13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJetBlueGuy2006 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1660 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1957 times:

I think they might have. I would not be surprised if they install 2 more rows to give them 12, and take new deliveries with the 12 FC.


Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
User currently offlineBoac747 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1943 times:

I'm all for it, but two more rows would give them 16.

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21526 posts, RR: 59
Reply 3, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1855 times:

Absolutely too small. It's the size of the F on a CO 735, which is considered too small.

12 would have been the minimum they should have fit. Even though it eats up 12 Y seats, from what I understand, F is always full, but Y usually has 12 seats free, minimum. They could have also done 12F with 48 in pitch and 135Y seats on the A320, instead of 55". I know 55" is nice and all, but it's honestly not needed on this length flight. 49" on the AA 762 in J is still a nice seat with plenty of transcon room.

1F for every 8-12Y is a rough standard for two class domestic aircraft in the USA. On VX, it's 1 for every 17 or so. I know VX are trying to reinvent flying, but shorting the F cabin isn't the right way to do it. All the other airlines didn't come to that general ratio by guessing...  Wink

Not too late to adjust their product.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineBoac747 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1831 times:

Nicw observation Ikramerica,

There have been too many VX flights I would have booked in F that I couldn't because of the sold out status. But I must admit, I really do love that 55" pitch  Wink


User currently offlineBrianDromey From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 3920 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1806 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 3):
Not too late to adjust their product.

The thing is though, that VX are SELLING their F cabins out, the others are giving theirs away more often than not. Better to go out completely full, with an air of exclusivity than empty with the tramps of the street filling up the cabin.

I think, if demand continues, VX will install more F seats, but it is still a bit previous, as many still say there is a "curisoty" factor. Another consideration is the time it takes to install the VX cabin, this is currently holding up deliveries, so until this is sorted, I would not expect a refit.

Brian.



Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
User currently offlineBoac747 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1795 times:

I am not aware at this point, of VX offering upgrades. So the cabin is full of full fare F. And like I have said, I am a full fare F ready to book, but stymied by the sold out status.

It really feels like 8 seats is way too small.

Just the $0.02 cents of a high revenue transon pax.


User currently offlineBoac747 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1769 times:

While we're at it, when will B6 offer an F product to up-product themselves in defense of the raising of the high yield bar?

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21526 posts, RR: 59
Reply 8, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1708 times:

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 5):
The thing is though, that VX are SELLING their F cabins out, the others are giving theirs away more often than not.

First, no, not always. Many of the "given away" Y seats are sold as FULL Y, a fare higher than VX charges for their DISCOUNTED F seats. I know this because I've booked full Y and gotten free upgrade.

Second, on transcons, airlines are NOT giving the F (or J) seats away. For example, on CO, the odds of a free upgrade other than the far from free "Auto Y" upgrade are just about 0% on transcons. AA heavily restricts award travel on the transcons because the cabins are full of paying customers. UA PS is full of paying customers, etc.

Further, if VX is selling out F on every flight in advance, they don't have enough F seats. It's obvious to all who've flown them or tried to book them that F sells out early, and they could easily sell 4 more seats.

Now maybe, due to the pricing structure, selling 4F seats instead of 12Y seats means a loss in revenue, but if that's the case, why even have the F? Just take out the 8, add 24Y and move along.

VX wants to steal F traffic, but without having available seats, they won't become the "F of choice" for anyone. Now maybe they are looking to the future and shorter legs to less glamorous places, but they are starting with LAX, SFO, JFK, IAH, MIA and those markets (connecting them at least) can support 1:10 premium ratio.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineIaddca From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 286 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1708 times:

If you look at their loads in F, no question they can add some seats there.

Anyone know how long a plane would have to be out of service to put in new F seats?


User currently offlineLuv2cattlecall From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1650 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1691 times:
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Quoting Boac747 (Reply 7):
While we're at it, when will B6 offer an F product to up-product themselves in defense of the raising of the high yield bar?

I thought the general public thought they were all F?  sarcastic 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0NTDNXAblE&mode=related&search=



When you have to breaststroke to your connecting flight...it's a crash!
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25346 posts, RR: 49
Reply 11, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1642 times:

Seemingly I believe F class demand has exceeded Virgin America's expectations on the transon routes.

I've had colleagues on two separate occasions wanting to try VX F class in lieu of UA's C class and on both occasions they were sold out for the dates/times they wanted.

VX either should add more seats or inch the fares higher, as their F fare is quite a bargain compared to even C class fares on the market.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22992 posts, RR: 20
Reply 12, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1623 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
Seemingly I believe F class demand has exceeded Virgin America's expectations on the transon routes.

Does that mean that VX needs a transcon subfleet and a shorthaul subfleet? Perhaps 8 F seats is appropriate for SFO-LAS. I don't think VX is big enough to do the whole 2 seating arrangements yet; maybe in the future.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1580 times:

VX has almost no competition in the stylish, transcon F market: just UA Premium Service and personally, I think VX looks better.

VX, like JetBlue before it, underestimated the demand of today's modern, rich man/woman to enjoy a premium product at a premium price. This country has a lot of rich people!! If F is truly good, people will pay for it. Not a fortune, but will they pay $200-400 extra per leg? You bet. VX is discovering this untapped part of the American market. I am glad to hear they are doing well.


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