RicardoFG From Spain, joined Feb 2005, 677 posts, RR: 0 Posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3304 times:
Well week one is complete in YYZ...with over 95% load factor, and very heavy cargo loads...I was speaking to a couple of EK's people from around the globe, and many of them say the same thing...Emirates goal for Toronto is Daily A380 service by 2010. This is the first I have heard of a possible A380 in YYZ, and seeing how loads have started, it is a possibility!
Heathrow From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 944 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3265 times:
that'd be great. Maybe DXB - YUL - YYZ with 388 ? I looked to book EK, and if I could find an openning at all, it was only first class with a ridiculous flight. Too bad, I wanted to try them.....
FLYACYYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1914 posts, RR: 12 Reply 3, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3173 times:
Quoting RicardoFG (Thread starter): Well week one is complete in YYZ...with over 95% load factor, and very heavy cargo loads
The Canadian Government has been saying that they will consider opening/expanding the bilateral based on the prevailing success of the thrice-weekly operation. It's absolutely no surprise that they've been running at 95% L-F's. Historically threre has been so much EK interlined traffic via LHR/FRA/ZRH that it was a given that YYZ was chomping at the bit for a direct flight with virtual guaranteed success. Think it's only a matter of time that QR will be knocking on the door as well. Having a presence of 4 & 5 star airlines on our home turf will hopefully force the rest of us to raise the bar (on service) as well.
Pnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2046 posts, RR: 12 Reply 4, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3119 times:
Daily A380 service is quite the jump in volume. Once the bilateral is in place and if that level of demand is in place AC won't be far behind with service. Businessmen with Star Alliance dependence will have a hard time giving up those long haul points. Does anyone know how Etihads is doing and what the loads are?
Yyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 15990 posts, RR: 59 Reply 6, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3071 times:
Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 3): The Canadian Government has been saying that they will consider opening/expanding the bilateral based on the prevailing success of the thrice-weekly operation.
Hopefully Canada will also consider the human rights record of Dubai, which is barbaric by any Western standard, before extending more landing rights.
Landing rights are a political as well as economic issue. Canada should press the point before allowing EK carte blanche into YYZ.
Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
Sebring From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 1658 posts, RR: 15 Reply 7, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3044 times:
Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 3):
The Canadian Government has been saying that they will consider opening/expanding the bilateral based on the prevailing success of the thrice-weekly operation
The government said last month this is not a priority.
Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 6):
Hopefully Canada will also consider the human rights record of Dubai, which is barbaric by any Western standard, before extending more landing rights.
Politics is rearing its head in this bilateral, and the Conservatives, rightly so, appear to be digging in their heels.
It's also worth reminding all that Canada's Blue Sky program includes a number of caveats which I think were crafted specifically to deal with situations like the UAE that might flood the market with capacity:
Issues that can be considered in bilateral requests include
-Canadian airline and airport priorities and interests;
-Likelihood and extent of new Canadian and foreign carrier services, giving preference where early startup of air services is planned;
-Bilateral irritants and disputes.
In other limited situations, the Government may determine that it would not be in Canada’s best interests to negotiate an Open Skies-type agreement. Considerations that could influence Canada’s approach to bilateral air negotiations include:
-the ability of Canadian airlines to operate services is severely limited by discriminatory airport access and/or facilitation issues;
-the “doing business” environment (e.g., transfer of funds, provisions on double taxation) presents major obstacles to Canadian airlines’ commercial operations;
-the foreign carrier(s) appears not to be behaving in accordance with rational business principles or is protected from normal market disciplines, resulting in a markedly unbalanced playing field vis-à-vis Canadian airlines;
-and the foreign carrier(s) would be reasonably expected to offer a level of service to such an extent that competition in some markets/routes would be significantly reduced or effectively eliminated – resulting in a net loss for Canada.
For those thinking of a daily A380, note the last para above.
Haan From South Africa, joined Aug 2004, 289 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2991 times:
I can see Emirates going to YYZ daily, just as soon as they can get more aircraft. Curently the flighst are all fully booked for December and January. Good for emirates, bad for staff.
Emirates773ER From Pakistan, joined Jun 2005, 1448 posts, RR: 10 Reply 9, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2949 times:
I am trying to find a seat in december but they are booked solid for the next couple of months. Looks like my only chance is in business, if only I had the $10k needed.
Flyyul From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4930 posts, RR: 53 Reply 10, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2942 times:
December, everything is booked solid to Europe and the Middle East..
we all knew that EK was going to enter YYZ with much fanfare, and that demand was never an issue. I wonder what the overall yield is, maybe behramjee can provide some input.
RicardoFG From Spain, joined Feb 2005, 677 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2748 times:
We are also the handling agent for EY in YYZ, and those flights are mostly full also...QR should have no problem in YYZ, however with Kingfisher rumoured to be starting YYZ soon, one has to wonder if the YYZ-India market will be quite saturated...I know AZ will be stopping there DEL and BOM service but lets look at the list of airlines in YYZ that have heavy traffic to India
AC
EK
EY
BA
KL
AF
SU
VV
PK
AI
UN
9W
LH
I know I went a bit off topic here, but its mind boggling to me
KissK From Malaysia, joined Aug 2007, 196 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2677 times:
Quoting RicardoFG (Reply 13): We are also the handling agent for EY in YYZ, and those flights are mostly full also...QR should have no problem in YYZ, however with Kingfisher rumoured to be starting YYZ soon, one has to wonder if the YYZ-India market will be quite saturated...I know AZ will be stopping there DEL and BOM service but lets look at the list of airlines in YYZ that have heavy traffic to India
Its easier to find a seat to AUH but seats to DXB are scarce
Gmale72 From Canada, joined Nov 2006, 12 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2496 times:
Kingfisher ? Wow.... I know Qatar has been on a media blitz here in YYZ, ads all over the Subway system, just a matter of time I think before we have YYZ-DOH service.
Sebring From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 1658 posts, RR: 15 Reply 16, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2475 times:
Quoting Gmale72 (Reply 15): Kingfisher ? Wow.... I know Qatar has been on a media blitz here in YYZ, ads all over the Subway system, just a matter of time I think before we have YYZ-DOH service.
Eventually, sure, but first there has to be a bilateral.
JoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5051 posts, RR: 29 Reply 17, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2468 times:
If somebody opened up a DXB/AUH/DOH-YYC direct, they'd get pretty good loads. There are many thousands of Canadians working in the middle east and most of them are in, shockingly, petroleum. The traffic between Calgary and the middle east is immense. At the moment, most of it transits through LHR or FRA. I imagine that'll change with the YYZ flights.
YOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4781 posts, RR: 17 Reply 18, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2468 times:
Quoting Gmale72 (Reply 15): Kingfisher ? Wow.... I know Qatar has been on a media blitz here in YYZ, ads all over the Subway system, just a matter of time I think before we have YYZ-DOH service.
Really? I take the subway almost everyday here and I haven't seen any QR ads.
Why would any YYZ passengers want to stop in Montreal enroute? That would be a reason for many to avoid that service, wouldn't it? Unless dictated by a tech stop, non-stop service is by far preferred by the traveleres the airlines covet.
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
Lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10696 posts, RR: 100 Reply 20, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2351 times:
Quoting Sebring (Reply 7): For those thinking of a daily A380, note the last para above.
Interesting, but obviously there is huge unmet demand on the route. Does AC have service to DXB? If not, why? Obviously its in demand from the load factors!
Sebring From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 1658 posts, RR: 15 Reply 21, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2305 times:
Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 20):
Interesting, but obviously there is huge unmet demand on the route. Does AC have service to DXB? If not, why? Obviously its in demand from the load factors!
There is not a huge unmet demand on the route. It's network traffic to places like Pakistan, India, and other mideast countries. Hardly anyone I know flying to Pakistan flies PK and there is no nonstop service to India on any carrier. Canada-UAE local traffic is small - not enough to fill an A319 every day. There is no nonstop service to India or Sri Lanka or to the Middle East other than the UAE. EK could route most of its traffic through a hub in Uzbeckistan, and the demand would be only slightly less because it's business here is not based on serving Dubai. That's why Canada has a clause in its policy for bilaterals to deal with so-called vacuum cleaner situations where a carrier comes in with way too much capacity to meet local needs but is after establishing hub dominance by effectively dumping capacity to get established before anybody else. In all likelihood, and this is my hunch, not my informed opinion, Canada will stall out the UAE talks until 2010 or 2011 by which time a number of other airlines - let's say, Kingfisher, Qatar, Gulf, maybe Kuwait – will enter the YYZ market on a nonstop basis. Air Canada will be getting 787s and probably relaunching some services to India. Air India will have a lot of new fleet and Star Alliance membership, and so on. Then, and only then, will EY and EK get free rein to add capacity at will. Of course, there is always the chance that EY or EK will make a deal, via AC, to create a partnership and/or agree to restrict capacity to the extent that when AC does get a 787, it might have a hope of making a nonstop to Dubai work on local traffic.
FLYACYYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1914 posts, RR: 12 Reply 22, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2254 times:
Quoting Threepoint (Reply 19): Why would any YYZ passengers want to stop in Montreal enroute?
Exactly. After providing a successful non-stop service, the customer base would not take too kindly to have a YUL stop thrown in. EK's forte will be providing non-stop service to DXB with one stop connectivity to points beyond. Don't think at this point YUL is high on the radar screen.
FLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4930 posts, RR: 53 Reply 24, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2195 times:
Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 22): Don't think at this point YUL is high on the radar screen.
Based on statements made by Emirates planning department, I beg to differ.
25 FLYACYYZ: Emirates planning would like to conquer the world. They are considering anywhere and everywhere. My statement was basically reflective of remarks mad
26 Jamincan: You heard it here first: EK planners want to serve DXB-YXE daily!
27 FLYACYYZ: Double-daily on the 380's given the close cultural ties between the two cities!
29 Flyyul: In that case, EK most definitely needs the ol' Air Canada circle tag YXE-YQR-DXB..
30 Lightsaber: Snarf! Best comeback on a.net in a long time. Actually, look at their route map. SYD via BKK, MEL via SIN, Auckland and Christchurch completely by fl
31 Lightsaber: I missed this comment, so here goes. Yes, non-stop service to/from India is EK's greatest long term threat. Hence their obsession with getting CASM d
32 RicardoFG: I can't see Kuwait serving YYZ nonstop, although maybe the demand is there as according to YYZNews.com, Air Canada just signed a codeshare agreement
33 Sebring: For people who think that the UAE will have an easy time getting expanded rights in Canada, consider how poorly Singapore did this week. There's a sep
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