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UA Mainline Returns To MIA  
User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32699 posts, RR: 72
Posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 8777 times:

Effective 13Feb08, United mainline returns to Miami. Both daily Dulles flights become 737-300s. O'Hare remains E70 jets (which, IMO, are nicer than a 733 any day), while Denver remains TED A320s. Interesting mix in Miami...

United has just failed in the Miami market, and South Florida in general, in the past decade. It really amazes me how poorly they do in South Florida.


a.
61 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSuper80DFW From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 1692 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 8703 times:

Just me, I would take TED over UA mainline (especially a 737) any day. You get a true IFE. Anyway, its good that UA mainline is going back to MIA.


"Things change, friends leave, life doesn't stop for anybody." -- EAT'EM UP EAT'EM UP KSU!!
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2920 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 8688 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
United has just failed in the Miami market, and South Florida in general, in the past decade. It really amazes me how poorly they do in South Florida.

Any speculation as to if MIA-California flights might be reinstated? I wonder if VX truly enters MIA if UA will try to beat them to MIA-SFO/LAX or not even try.


User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32699 posts, RR: 72
Reply 3, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 8672 times:

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 2):
Any speculation as to if MIA-California flights might be reinstated? I wonder if VX truly enters MIA if UA will try to beat them to MIA-SFO/LAX or not even try.

They were close to resuming them last spring, but ended up being a no-go.

And VX isn't if. They have started hiring.

I am curious to see if VX coming to MIA will see a reaction from UA, but my feeling is no. Rather, if VX, for example, where to start MIA-IAD (which is likely, though won't be a launch route), will UA beef up service there?

[Edited 2007-11-05 17:45:55]


a.
User currently offlinePlatinumfoota From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 556 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 8620 times:
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I dont think UA will fly any LAX-MIA anytime soon, too much competition with AA and not enough birds to take the risk.


Never forget United 93
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9592 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 8582 times:

It confuses me how UA has such weak service to MIA. I would think that UA would be in a good position to have a decent number of flights to South Florida. UA's hubs are in cold places where people want to get away and go to the beach and hop on cruise ships to the Caribbean. UA should have a decently large market to serve MIA, FLL and PBI from. However UA has barely any service to South Florida now. 6 flights to MIA and even fewer to FLL and PBI. UA leaves the leisure traffic up to airlines like jetBlue.

I know I'm being nostalgic, but I remember flying MIA-LAX on a 763, which happened to be the first 767 equipped with PTVS in the UA fleet during the 90s and we were parked next to 777s and other widebodies. Those were certainly different days. The first time I was ever on a 767 was flying IAD-MIA on UA.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineMIAMIx707 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 8532 times:

I remember in the early 90s United 747SPs at Miami.What routes did UA put these on?

Until 2000 or so UA used to fly 777s to Miami. I remember seeing 3 of these side by side one night. And to think UA mainline is now gone! Did the 777s fly both to Europe and S. America?


User currently onlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26426 posts, RR: 76
Reply 7, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 8515 times:

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 5):
UA's hubs are in cold places where people want to get away and go to the beach and hop on cruise ships to the Caribbean.

LAX and SFO certainly aren't cold places. Also, United Cruises has always done brisk business out of New Orleans.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32699 posts, RR: 72
Reply 8, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 8492 times:

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 6):
I remember in the early 90s United 747SPs at Miami.What routes did UA put these on?

MIA-SCL.

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 6):
Until 2000 or so UA used to fly 777s to Miami. I remember seeing 3 of these side by side one night. And to think UA mainline is now gone! Did the 777s fly both to Europe and S. America?

777 service lasted until, IIRC, October 2002. They were used to Buenos Aires, Santiago, and Sao Paulo, with domestic service from O'Hare, Denver, Los Angeles, and San Francisco (it rotated between those).

When UA started cutting back on South American and domestic flying, they started losing dozens of corporate travel contracts to AA. It killed them. They tried to maintain a token presence, but they were losing the business traveler market.

[Edited 2007-11-05 18:10:44]


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User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 8467 times:

Quoting Super80DFW (Reply 1):
Just me, I would take TED over UA mainline (especially a 737) any day. You get a true IFE. Anyway, its good that UA mainline is going back to MIA.

I concur. I fly DCA-MIA frequently, and I'd appreciate more capacity IAD-MIA. the AA flights DCA-MIA are usually pretty full.


User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 8466 times:

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 6):

Until 2000 or so UA used to fly 777s to Miami. I remember seeing 3 of these side by side one night. And to think UA mainline is now gone! Did the 777s fly both to Europe and S. America?

While these routes were not all 777s, not too long ago, UA's MIA-Lat.Am network looked like this:

Miami-Buenos Aires daily 772
Miami-Caracas daily A320
Miami-Rio de Janeiro daily 763
Miami-Sao Paulo daily 772
Miami-Santiago daily 763/772


That gave them coverage in the big 5 Lat.Am destinations (MAH should know what I'm talking about)



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User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 8455 times:

I don't know what LAX/SFO-MIA brings to UA. UA' s domestic network seems to exist to fill its international network out of its hubs. UA's flights to Asia (and Europe) out of SFO and LAX are packed. They likely see it's better to route Miami to Asia flyers through its hubs at Dulles and ORD, rather than competing for scarce seats out of SFO.

If UA adds LAX/SFO-MIA, they'd likely do it on Ted. Lots of leisure flyers but higher fare people to Asia will be routed through ORD and IAD.

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
United has just failed in the Miami market, and South Florida in general, in the past decade. It really amazes me how poorly they do in South Florida.

United prudently decided to pick its battles. Why fight with LCCs and AA to Miami and the rest of Florida? Moving to and strengthening Dulles has been a financially better decision than competing for vacationers and retirees to Florida. United has enough seats to and from Florida to feed its hubs up north. More they don't need.

[Edited 2007-11-05 18:15:42]

User currently offlineSampa737 From Brazil, joined May 2005, 637 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 8366 times:

Wow! I had no idea UA pulled back to almost nothingness in Miami, much less anywhere in Florida. My first experience with United was on a 767 out of Rio and then my return to Brazil was what I was told was a brand spanking new 777 to Sao Paulo. The flights were full which is why I was surprised they pulled those flights. South America seems so lucrative for others. But as stated, ya gotta chose battles wisely.

User currently offlineMIAMIx707 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 8308 times:

Surprised MCO still sees the mainline 757 from SFO?

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 8):
777 service lasted until, IIRC, October 2002. They were used to Buenos Aires, Santiago, and Sao Paulo, with domestic service from O'Hare, Denver, Los Angeles, and San Francisco (it rotated between those).

Even if UA lost that much business traffic to AA their downgrade has been shocking. In 2002 UA still even had service from Miami to Dusseldorft with the 763. Around 2002 I remember seeing a late PM departure with the UA 777s but not many. Probably used on one or two routes if it indeed was still used from MIA by then.


User currently offlineB752OS From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1322 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 8270 times:

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 13):
Surprised MCO still sees the mainline 757 from SFO?

Are you asking a question? Peronsonally, I am not surprised at all UA still flies SFO-MCO with a 752.


User currently offlineRDUDDJI From Lesotho, joined Jun 2004, 1468 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 8123 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 8):
When UA started cutting back on South American and domestic flying, they started losing dozens of corporate travel contracts to AA. It killed them. They tried to maintain a token presence, but they were losing the business traveler market.



Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 11):
United prudently decided to pick its battles. Why fight with LCCs and AA to Miami and the rest of Florida? Moving to and strengthening Dulles has been a financially better decision than competing for vacationers and retirees to Florida. United has enough seats to and from Florida to feed its hubs up north. More they don't need.

The market dynamic has changed over the last 5 years. Airlines cannot afford to have hubs that are only "marginally" profitable or losing money. South FL might be a great place to have a South American/Caribbean gateway from, but geographically other than that, it's worthless (for connections) to other network carriers. UA chose to do battle at it's hubs (i.e. losing MIA/JFK) and it's done quite well. IAD has become a powerhouse for UA's European network and now even has flights to Asia. Other than ORD, SFO and to a lesser extent LAX are large Int'l hubs on the West, and DEN handles the domestic feed in between. All in, UA quite possibly has the best O&D hubs in the U.S. Not to say there aren't any holes (NYC, Southeast)...but their feed is solid.

I don't see how what UA has done at MIA is any different than AA at STL and US at PIT. The industry is changing, airlines have to react.



Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32699 posts, RR: 72
Reply 16, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 8086 times:

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 13):
Surprised MCO still sees the mainline 757 from SFO?

It's the only non-stop from MCO to SFO. They have the market easily locked up. Plus, on MCO-LAX, they have a nice Disney corporate contract.

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 13):
In 2002 UA still even had service from Miami to Dusseldorft with the 763.

UA has never flown Miami-Düsseldorf. They have not flown Miami-Europe since the early 1990s, when they lost Miami-Heathrow route authority.

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 13):
Around 2002 I remember seeing a late PM departure with the UA 777s but not many. Probably used on one or two routes if it indeed was still used from MIA by then.

They had two daily 772s - one to GRU and one to EZE - until 28Oct02.

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 15):

I don't see how what UA has done at MIA is any different than AA at STL and US at PIT. The industry is changing, airlines have to react.

The closing of the hub was logical. What is more surprising is the cuts in frequency on routes like MIA-ORD and MIA-IAD, which are only 2x daily each.



a.
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3694 posts, RR: 19
Reply 17, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 8026 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 8):

777 service lasted until, IIRC, October 2002. They were used to Buenos Aires, Santiago, and Sao Paulo, with domestic service from O'Hare, Denver, Los Angeles, and San Francisco (it rotated between those).

Don't forget Rio de Janeiro! The 777s were used for a while in the MIA-GIG flights.


User currently offlineRDUDDJI From Lesotho, joined Jun 2004, 1468 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 7951 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 16):
The closing of the hub was logical. What is more surprising is the cuts in frequency on routes like MIA-ORD and MIA-IAD, which are only 2x daily each.

Admittedly, I've had some trouble with those cuts (esp since I wanted to goto MIA from ORD last weekend to watch NCSU beat MIA)... Me thinks maybe UA wants to use the N/B's on other long haul routes? MIA is at least 2+ hours from IAD/ORD, mayhaps they think they are better used elsewhere?

but then I also wonder if is somewhat similar to IAD-ORD flights on AA? I believe they used to have mainline metal on that route, but now all EGL? AA does have quite substantial ORD-MIA lift, and it is hub-hub for AA.



Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32699 posts, RR: 72
Reply 19, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 7944 times:

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 18):
I believe they used to have mainline metal on that route, but now all EGL?

AA doesn't fly IAD-ORD anymore, actually. Dulles is served from the other four hubs, including SJU and STL, as well as LAX, but not O'Hare.



a.
User currently offlineMEL From Canada, joined Oct 1999, 1098 posts, RR: 13
Reply 20, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks ago) and read 7729 times:

Washington-Miami also ran with the 777-200s before being switched to 767-300s, then further downhill.


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User currently offlineFXramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7247 posts, RR: 85
Reply 21, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks ago) and read 7725 times:
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Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
It really amazes me how poorly they do in South Florida.

Why?

AA, B6, CO, and DL pretty much rule the area.


User currently offlineMIAMIx707 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks ago) and read 7674 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 16):
UA has never flown Miami-Düsseldorf. They have not flown Miami-Europe since the early 1990s, when they lost Miami-Heathrow route authority.

Well I was going to take that flight but didn't have my passport ready, a friend who worked for UA did. Maybe you're right, and he actually flew through IAD or something. I have to double check that. My mistake.

[Edited 2007-11-05 22:21:31]

[Edited 2007-11-05 22:26:19]

User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32699 posts, RR: 72
Reply 23, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks ago) and read 7674 times:

Quoting FXramper (Reply 21):
Why?

AA, B6, CO, and DL pretty much rule the area.

Look at other airlines operations at South Florida airports. Northwest has seven daily flights to Minneapolis during the winter. US Airways has a dozen to Philadelphia. I'm not saying United has to "rule the area", but they barely have a dozen daily flights to the country's seventh largest metro. That's pathetic for a major airline.

[Edited 2007-11-05 22:25:34]


a.
User currently offlineTommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks ago) and read 7649 times:

MIA is one of the UA bases that suffered a substantial amount of cuts because of chapter 11. You could also put EWR and JFK on the list of airports that UA severely downgraded since 2002.

I remember flying in February 2000 DCA-MIA on a 722 with United, and MIA-ORD on the 777. They had around 20 gates back then (or at least decorated to look so, not sure if they utilized all of them.)



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
25 Post contains images UnitedTristar : I think you mean IAD, the 777 would never make it out of DCA. -m
26 JoFMO : I fully agree. You would at least expect them to have some service to their other hubs for international connections and to satisfy the business mark
27 John : UA relies heavily on the US codeshares to get their people to/from Florida.
28 FMAL : I was gonna mention that. I used to fly UA GIG-MIA-GIG regularly, and experienced the 777 on the route. It was unfortunate for me UA's pull out of th
29 Christao17 : Yes, but he didn't write "777". I thnk he meant a 727-200.
30 United_Fan : Not to date myself,but I remember when UA flew DCA-IAD with a 727 with dinner served.I remember flying ORD-MIA 1 month after 9/11,on a UA 763. The f/a
31 Hiflyer : Damn...that was a quick meal!!!!
32 Aamr : Whats that, a 5-10 minute flight? The f/a's wouldn't even be allowed out of their seats.
33 Bicoastal : Flights are timed for international arrivals and other connecting traffic. O & D business travelers, as others have mentioned, can fly US's numerous
34 United_Fan : Sorry,meant DCA-MIA....
35 KL911 : Sure, I remember flying UA LHR-IAD-MIA all on 777's in December 1998. IAD-MIA was fully booked as well. KL911
36 Transair737 : Just flew yesterday the MIA/DEN 8 am flight. As it was my first time to MIA I was amazed at how little presence United has in MIA, or that all flights
37 GECMD11 : that was a tag on or some code share w/LH i don't think UA ever flew MIA-DUS.
38 USADreamliner : MIA-EZE too for a short period , I think in 1992.
39 NADC10Fan : This may be the key to the issue. FLL is my home, and one flight I booked out of there to IND did not go via Ted by rather US through PIT; the entire
40 Tommy767 : No it was definately a 727. They also served a good dinner. I know it was an oddball route for them, but back in 2000 UA used to fly non-stop from MI
41 Luv2fly : MIA ia not the end all of places like a lot of people want to think that it is.
42 SLCUT2777 : Speaking of DL, what are the chances of SLC-MIA service at least returning on a 738 during the winter months?
43 MAH4546 : Hopefully they will, but I know AA is now looking at starting a daily 738 on the route for next year, probably winter 08/09.
44 Gman3 : Unfotunately I just checked our Apollo system...It looks like that the mainline is just for Easter, it reverts back when I look at days in April.
45 MAH4546 : The same thing happened last time when they loaded the E70 jets for February, it showed reverting back to TED in April. This should be fixed soon.
46 OA260 : Totally agree. Its about time they did something to MIA. I have avoided UA Ex: MIA as I hate that TED product. Finally UA have seen sense.
47 PRAirbus : Really doubt they could compete on MIA-LAX w/AA. AA has plenty of flights and also offer 763/777 service.
48 Post contains images OB1504 : UA does this with a lot of their flights. Their current flight 1469 routes MIA-DEN-RNO, with the departures screen showing both Denver and Reno as de
49 MAH4546 : They could compete with 1-2x daily A320s. AA does offer good service, but the market is there for a second carrier. It will be Virgin America, though
50 Avek00 : For starters, domestic yields to south Florida are basically in the gutter. The market has been so thoroughly invaded by LCCs to a point where we're n
51 MAH4546 : Hardly. With AA having such a strong footing at MIA, and high-frequency monopolies on important routes like LAX, SFO, DCA, and BOS, many domestic rou
52 Post contains images SLCUT2777 : Many people along the Wasatch Front go on that winter time cruise. FLL works great for Port Everglades, but getting down to the port in Miami is a bi
53 MAH4546 : Plus there is ski traffic from the South Florida side. MIA has three weekly non-stops to Vail during the winter, I'm pretty sure AA could fill a 738
54 B752OS : I assume you are not talking about on a daily basis. Ther may be ski traffic, but not that much ski traffic to warrant additional flights. I am willi
55 Copaair737 : I'd say there's about a 99.9% chance of SFO-MIA starting.
56 Post contains images MAH4546 : Not at all. The route is heavy O&D. The flight is timed for O&D, and it lands at MIA around 5PM, well after the main Caribbean bank of flights has ta
57 SHUPirate1 : The Miami-Dade Aviation Department controls each and every single one of the gates at MIA. The last gate lease at MIA expired on October 1, 1991.
58 MAH4546 : None the less, airlines occupy the same gates on a daily basis, and Concourse F was loaded with United-branded gates and signage. Some of the signs a
59 Tommy767 : Which is exactly what I mean. I counted 20 or so gates that had the 1990s UA logos decorated along with that tacky dark green coloring for countertop
60 MAH4546 : The newer terminals don't use it, thankfully. Concourse F will be getting new check-in counters with LCD screens, but I don't know a timeline. Right
61 MIAMIx707 : OB1504, If IRRC the 767 in new colors on that photo was an unusual visitor, a sports charter or something like that. The spotters were thrilled since
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